Windows ‘Mojave’ Video Posts

Windows ‘Mojave’ Video Posts

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Last week we showed a video of the Mojave Experiment to a small group of folks here on campus.  Today we are excited to share the results with the public.

For those new to the Mojave Experiment, it's a focus group effort we initiated a few weeks ago. We interviewed and polled 120 participants in San Francisco, in hopes of better understanding everyday users' perceptions of Windows Vista and seeing whether there really is a gap between perception and reality. We wanted to see how people reacted to Windows Vista when they were not aware they were seeing Windows Vista. We recorded our discussions, and today you can see them for yourself.

Some other facts about the research: 

  • The focus group took place over three days in San Francisco and was conducted earlier this month.
  • All participants were either Mac, Linux, or users of versions of Windows that came before Windows Vista. Respondents were chosen from the focus group organizer's database, called at random, but then selected based on having a low perception of Vista (<5 rating on a scale of 1-10).
  • The participants were given a demo by a trained retail salesperson - geared towards the experiences they seemed most interested in following a series of interviews. While the retail salesperson drove the demo, it was geared by the interests and direction of the participant.
  • We did not use some geeked out or custom built PC. We used an HP Pavilion DV2500. It had 2GB of RAM and was running an Intel Core 2 Duo CPU T7500 @ 2.20GHz. The OS was a 32 bit version of Windows Vista Ultimate.
  • Of the 120 respondents polled, on a scale of 1:10 where 10 was the highest rating, the average pre-rating for Windows Vista was 4.4. After they saw the demo, respondents rated Mojave an average of 8.5.

Finally, some people have asked if Mojave is the big marketing project we're working on - it's not. The Mojave Experiment is just that: an experiment we conducted on the fly that yielded interesting results. We're publishing the video today because we think you'll also find it interesting.

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  • GunnerL
    1 Posts

    The king of high-end retail in New York City the Saks, or Saks Fifth Avenue, made a bit of a blunder when they picked a new line of very expensive suits from Kiton, the Italian fashion line.  These suits go for way more than a payday loan; paying $10,000 for one of their jackets is a good deal.  Perhaps not the greatest idea to spring a fashion line on us when no one wants to pay for high end too much anymore – and more people are getting a cash advance than ever before.

  • TheEyes
    1 Posts

    i just wanted to add my lil say in the matter, im not here to burn vista or any other os (to much) im just gonna share my experiance so ill make it simple...maybe

    lets start with my vista experiance, i started off with vista upgrades to xp to get it to look and have some features of vista, i dug it and it prob added to the hype, i later got ahold of the rtm iso and installed it on my dell optiplex gx-50 with 1.10GHz 384RAM 20GBHD and 128MBVRAM (nvidia, no shader) and it installed fine and ran quite well but there were alot of things i found confusing like user options and control panel etc etc, gadgets were useless since i dont like clutter, i couldnt run any of my games but i could host them with my server software, media center was nice also, i didnt experiance any sudden slow downs or crashes and the eye candy is really what sucked me in honestly. im sure this has changed quite abit from the rtm but im not going to try it because if i want vista i can put it into xp (which i already have). from my point of view and everyone i know xp is the main choice and will always be. my gf uses vista and hates it to be honest, my grandfather uses xp and dredding an upgrade to such an os he has mentioned not even using windows anymore and moving to ubuntu. i also have a friend who uses osx and regrets ever buying one because they finally went to intel after she bought it and personally i always felt that it was an os for yuppies. now i thought vista was fair but its just not gonna be the os everyone is hoping, my advice is pay more attention to the next windows "w/e" but im not a trolling fanboy or some super professional im just a video game dev. I run ubuntu with windows vistaxp and osx for iphone development in vm, runs fine i get all the eye candy i want i have all the drivers i need and i know how to run any program i want on it, despite what some may say ubuntu can out perform for those who have the savvy, so i wouldnt recommend it to a yuppie or dummmie user....really thoe vista isnt there its just another fancy glass and gem coverd cod piece.

    i cant say for sure what exactly is needed in os so lost in its own ego that it needs to do somthing like this and have ads with jerry seinfeld to compete with the comediac but very wrong mac commercials. people are foggy now adays we dont know what we want anymore cause were to over loaded with all of this hype, just get back to the basics please.

    meh im done ....that was slightly entertaining....i guess.... burn on fanboys...burn on

  • UnitG2
    1 Posts

    I was unable to live with Vista on my Dell laptop (that came with Vista) for the longest time because of almost daily BSOD's with stock everything. Some recent BIOS updates from Dell seem to have fixed it.

    Now, its really smooth and I am even trying it out on a hybrid hard drive which is an amazing experience. But if I hadnt been able to easily move back to XP during that time I would have been really angry because it was a joke.

    Overall, what we lost really was the Windows ability to run on pretty much anything- its a real crap shoot. Some people never have a hint of a problem, some people getting completely frustrated. The lessons to be learned by the rollout of XP completely lost to MS. Some have mentioned MS Bob and Me. But I remember Exchange (a product they wouldnt even use themselves for years) and other rollouts by MS. This is what MS does to people over and over- make them the testers and overcharge them for the privilege. No wonder people are angry.

  • I am sorry Brandon, but you are wrong.

    Check out his second post. Specifically, lines 11 (where he calls him a scrub) and 16 (where he calls him a droid).

  • I had XP and tried Vista. I found no advantages over XP. I did find some issues that did not please me. Such as, no driver for my fairly late model HP printer. So, I went back to XP.

    Then along came the "Mojave Experiment" TV ads. So, I checked out the website to find out where I had gone wrong. I was thoroughly disappointed to find nothing but advertising and meaningless testimonials. I mean would you publish a testimonial where someone said,"This is a piece of junk"?

    Thanks for the Vista, but I'll stick with my XP as long as his highness supports it.

  • ieatpoi
    3 Posts

    Winblad,

    I think that's exactly the direction Microsoft is currently taking. The extras program has been pretty much shutdown. Nobody is really hyping anything about a future SP. No new features are being promoted. The Bill and Jerry ads are focusing on the future - something completely different. They aren't even showing the Vista logo anymore.

    I'm not seeing anyone hype Vista anymore. For some people it works great, but for others - there's just been too many issues and I think Microsoft is ahsamed of those and is trying to sweep it under the rug and start again. Of course they can't come right out an say that until they have something to replace it with which they do not currently have. So, that's the situation we're all it.

    I'm not saying Vista doesn't work for many people. After 2 years of updates, it's become pretty reasonable at this point on the current hardware, but so many people were burned that I think the dmage is irrepairable at this point and Microsoft realizes that too. They just can't say it publicly.

  • Winblad
    2 Posts

    I just had to add that I've been working on computers since the 70's (yeah, no HDD, just a floppy and monocolor screen), and bought new an Apple II+ for way too much money.

    I have taken Vista off every computer I touch, and will not ever touch a Vista computer again. It is far worse than anything released by MS. Yes, it's an even bigger debacle than MS "Bob" (anyone remember that?).

    Come one, MS, admit it's bad and send it to the same bin that Windows ME went to. Just make sure to empty that recycle bin!

  • Winblad
    2 Posts

    This is hilariously insane and ridiculous! What, take a bunch of computer neophytes, show them something they've never seen before. It's a great version of lipstick on a pig, but it's still lipstick on a pig.

    I have used Vista, and hate it more than any operating system ever used. I’ve been around since the DOS days, saw Windows come onto the scene (a friend of mine helped write the MS code for IBM in 1974), remember 3.1, 3.11, etc.

    Let’s face it, for anyone who has been around computers for more than a decade or two, Apple computers have historically performed better on memory utilization and releasing (after apps closed). Now, Vista takes PC computers even further away from the memory performance of Macs. Isn't that the wrong direction, MS?

    This stupid exercise in futility, trying to woo the average user back to embracing Vista is idiotic. Give people a chance to really use it, see it crash, experience the incompatibility problems. I would rather stop using computers than use Vista. I would rather use a 386 running Windows 3.1 (or Win 3.11 if networked). It's really that bad.

    Microsoft needs a primer... XP = good OS; Vista = BAD OS. Bad, Vista, Bad. See Vista crash. Crash, Vista, crash.

    I guarantee that any XP machine will perform better with 2Gb of RAM than any amount of excess RAM in a Vista machine (that it still won’t recognize and fully utilize). Congratulations Microsoft, your Vista OS has turned more people to Apple than anything you’ve ever released previously.

    I suppose it’s a good thing MS invested in Apple!

  • My laptop is a Gateway MT3705, 1.6 ghz dual core CPU, with 1gb of ram and an ATI Radeon 200M video card, and Vista Home Premium. The first problem: almost none of the programs I brought over from my old laptop (IBM Thinkpad T22, PIII 1 ghz, 512mb RAM, 20gb HDD, XP SP2 ) will work without somehow failing the entire system. For example, X-Plane (and all included programs) refuses to work, despite XP SP2 compatibilty settings, and the program's system req. label listing Vista as a supported OS. Also, with some new games I bought, my laptop will experience problems ranging from choppy graphics, to a loss of response from certain peripherals. Only one of the four programs is not Vista certified.

    My second problem is exactly what everyone else is saying; poor loading time for Windows itself, and simple applications like Firefox, Media Center/Player, and even solitaire take a rediculously long time to load.

  • Mahoney
    1 Posts

    First a little back ground, I had my first PC in 1986 (Franklin PC8000), and have been an avid pc user since, I currently work for a major tier 4 data center, and am an avid gamer.

    I'll start by saying that it is about time something like this has happened. I saw the Mojave experiment this evening, and completely "lol'd".  I am by no means a Microsoft "fanboi".  If I had the patience I would use Linux, but only because I work closely with both Microsoft and Linux products on a daily basis.

    The responses in the videos are highly typical, and I have even had the same responses from friends who refuse to use Vista.  Mostly because of rumors they have heard or videos on YouTube that they have seen.  I have seen videos on YouTube as well of OSX having issues, and being a gamer, have seen all to well the issues with gaming and OSX.

    I hate how inexperienced and ignorant (meaning have never used vista) users constantly bash Vista and Microsoft.  Yes, there are negative sides to Microsoft, but that's big business, you don't think that Apple/Mac doesn't have it's issues?

    I've been using Vista Ultimate x64 since the day it was made available in stores, I have only had 2 BSOD and 1 freeze/hangup, and it was from user error - I overclocked my processor and was adjusting voltages, this would happen on any pc, no matter what OS you are using.  Since then, my computer has ran faster, and run demanding pc games easier and effortlessly than with any previous operating system I've used, and I've been using Windows since it was first delivered on a pc.  At my job, we use Vista Business on our pc's.  If Vista wasn't reliable, we could cause harm to thousands of computers, and would definately make it impossible to do our job, again I work in a data center.  

    A trend I'm seeing is people putting programs and antivirus and spam checker and other random miscellenous programs on their pc's, and even overloading them.  Your PC is restricted by its internal components.  If you have 1GB of memory and are running enough applications to tax a 2GB system, you will get hangups and freezes.  If you run so many process and leave so many users signed in at one time, your processor will get taxed to the point of overheating.  If you don't keep your pc clean, your pc will overheat, and internal components, not the OS, will be taxed beyond its limits.  This applies to every single pre-manufactured PC, from Macs to Dells to HP's, with every OS mentionable.  

    Most of the people posting negative things in the comments above, are just mentioning mostly opinions, or have not even tried to resolve their issue with their pc with Vista on it.  They get a hang up and just say "Oh well that's just Vista" and it's just not true.  Personally I believe Windows 98 was the worst version ever.  I had reboots, hangups, and error messages hourly.  Drivers would reset or not load properly.  Talk about a headache.

    Again, I'm just glad it's made public that there are people out there who have never touched, seen, or used Vista, and just go on a few users issues.  Most of those issues are from people that would have identical issues on any OS.

    I'm still annoyed that Mac/Apple makes it look like their PC's are better than every other PC, the only thing different is the OS.  And it's not that splended. It's just pretty and dumbed down for the typical user who does nothing more than save photos and browse the internet. Way to explore horizons in the IT realm.

  • Klasanov, John never resorted to calling other commenters names. As I said previously: petty name calling, such as calling other commenters here "losers" won't be tolerated.

    Thanks,

    Brandon

  • Hey Brandon, the person you really should be telling to be polite is John, not Chickym

  • ps when i said you along with the pr peaple I meant MS not you personally sorry but i get a bit worked up about immorall corporate practices.

  • michelleespinoza, I'd love to hear more about your problems running 64-bit. I run 64-bit Windows Vista as my main desktop PC and had very little problems with it. What sorts of incompatibilities have you ran into? Is the PC a PC you put together yourself or one you bought from someone like HP or Dell?

    WhyblockLoBi, no need for thanks. Keep sharing your opinion. That's why we have a blog :-) All I ask is that people keep things constructive and respectful.

    Thanks,

    Brandon

  • I use Vista Home Premium- 32-bit on my laptops and 64-bit on my desktops (4 computers). I use OSX at work (I can't stand OSX)...... Vista is great- I don't know why everyone complains.

    I just got through upgrading my tablet pc from XP to Vista Home Premium-- and the difference is like night and day. The tablet features in Vista are way better, they respond better...the system as a whole is no faster/slower than my XP systems.

    I'll admit that I've had a LOT of problems with the 64-bit system (hangs, errors, incompatibility), but I'm willing to ride the storm with MSFT until those kinks are worked out.

    My 32-bit Vista systems are great. I don't have any problems with compability. In fact, most of my printers and other peripherals installed without having to use the software. Vista comes preloaded with THOUSANDS more drivers than XP had.

  • thankyou for clearing up who ran the demo. i am sure that the pr peaple do know the legalities of fraud, im sure it helps to have a third or fourth party involvement, ask any drug cartel that uses mules or rather any company that uses call centres to annoy people at home to shift blame for the inconvienience to the peaple paid to do it and not those paying for it to be done. Did MS specify which type brand model of pc was to be used for the 'experiment' was it and the vista installation checked out by an MSCE either on location or remotely? What i am trying to say is that Mojave really wasnt an experiment as such just an underhanded way to obtain a desired result. thank you for letting me air my opinions even if they may be erroneous.

  • WhyblockLoBi, you are not blocked and from my end your account looks fine. Not sure why you can't sign in. Please try again.

    Thanks,

    Brandon

  • hey brandon i couldnt sign backin. I did just join so is there an approval period after the initial join? did you block me? if so why i wasnt abusive or theatening.

  • LoBi
    3 Posts

    ps. i use windows xp and although it was hell in the begining i now find its great (although i did have to wind back sp3 as my sp2 setup was more stable. security isnt as huge a problem as everyone panics it is. like really what do people (home users) have on their pc that is so damn dangerous for others to see? scan for keyloggers and other spyware regularly and stay clear of risky sites and software, simple!. eight years of computing and never hacked not once.

  • LoBi, as I mentioned above - it is a trained retail spokesperson (the types of people you'd meet at a Best Buy or Fry's) giving the demos to the folks taking part in the experiment. I'm sorry you're disgusted.

    - Brandon

  • Sorry LoBi, despite what you want to believe it was indeed "regular" retail spokespeople driving the demos for the folks who took part in the experiment.

    And I'm pretty certain Microsoft's "advertising people" are fully aware of what is considered fraud. ;-)

    chickym, next time you leave a comment please be a little more respectful and constructive. Petty name calling, such as calling other commenters here "losers" won't be tolerated.

    Thanks,

    Brandon

  • LoBi
    3 Posts

    oops sorry i really should read the other posts before i go shooting my mouth off. that said, Canned demo? seriously is that like a movie or a tech sitting there using a few features for them? either way its way worse than i initially thought and really to present it to the populace in the manner MS has is more than mearly dishonest it is actuall fraud and you should along with the PR peaple involved should face a trail with a real prospect for imprisonment i am disgusted by this totally and utterly disgusted.;

  • LoBi
    3 Posts

    Hey maybe Microsoft techs can setup test and correctly configure,turn off un-essential services pre-install the periferals and have the optimum compatable mobo cpu ram and large capacity psu for all its customers as i am sure that for this focus group it did. i bet if the test group was allowed to choose which hardware they wanted to test it with and were left to set it up themselves (with help from a retail store tech, 'im not an ogre') then their opinions may well have been different. this study was nothing more than a controlled exercise to see if under certain conditions peaple can be decieved and have their perceptions changed for the short period of time it takes to get them on film. As others have asked was the testing real world at the home office? if so did they have the same helpdesk phone number as the rest of us? if they needed to plug something in was it a retail guy or a MSCE that helped them? I seriously doubt that Microsoft would have left anything to chance that may have hindered acheiving the outcome that this 'experiment' was designed to result in. Fraud is illegal for a reason and your advertising people like their peers really need to get their head around that.

  • chickym
    1 Posts

    to Dozer42, you hit the nail on the head. i am a computer geek, mom of two and have had three windows operating systems with Vista being the current. I have had to do so much recovery, lost so much work just on word, a microsoft program and downloaded failed fixes. it doesn't matter who makes what, John, programs are not just made by microsoft and if your excuse for this pain in the a** system is because the systems that don't work are not made by microsoft or approved affiliates, that is so stupid. Vista is suppose to be an os to support the PC. You should not be dictating what works on it or doesn't. Fact is, if i sit down and go through all the errors and lost time with my family on a computer i need for work and writing, i would make microsoft pay me for damages and lost time. Dozer42, the fact that John is so geeky and hardcore about this joke of a system makes him a loser and more so to put you down for what you do for a living. what does your job have to do with a crappy operating system. I hope john you are not one of the brilliant one's who works for microsoft, that would explain a whole lot. I was actually excited and thought that Microsoft was making a new OS because even my my husband and his managers who work at NASA hate the system and are fighting to get something different, so stick that JOHN. Go ahead and put down the people who are working hard to make mankind and life here on a earth a litle more manageale. that's what i thought. People, this system is horrible, hence Dozer42's comment below sums it all up, regardless of what John thinks. When this much negative press gets out about anything, you know it sucks and the people in the experiment had to have a salesperson guide them and the average joe has problems with it, what does that tell you???? duh!!!! Make a new systrem and try it out with the average house before you make us take time away from our families, stop us from working and tending to our lives before you release another system.

    Dozer42 comments:

    Microsoft is in some serious denial here.

    Windows Vista is the worst operating system in history, next to Windows ME.

    There is not one single advantage to Vista that our customers need.

    It's slower. Apps run slower, games run slower, as you can see just from the posts here, it likes to intermittently and without reason come to a crawl.

    Many applications and peripherals simply do not work with it. Why should I pay Intuit another $150 for Quickbooks Pro 2007 when I just paid for 2006? Why doesn't it, and so many other programs work with Vista or it's useless compatibility mode.

    We sell hundreds of computers every year. We ask every customer whether they would prefer a machine with Vista, or Windows XP. They look surprised when we ask them this, because they thought XP was no longer available? Every single one of them goes for the system with XP without fail.

    We take brand new Dell Vostros w/Vista Business, and because we're Microsoft Certified Gold Partners we can legally downgrade them to XP Pro, and we do so.

    The result? A clean, FAST system that boots from power-button to surfing the web in Firefox in 35 seconds flat. It runs all of their applications, works with all of their peripherals, runs every game faster than Vista ever will (even the ones that require DirectX 10 can run with some tweaks).

    Honestly the fact that Microsoft is forcing Vista on users at every retail store has been a huge boon to our business. Because we're just about the only ones who sell machines with Windows XP, and you can get them today, NOW, we've been selling computers like hotcakes.

    Thanks Microsoft! Just keep doing what you're doing!

  • xpuser
    1 Posts

    I was prompted to leave some feedback after being bombarded with the Mojave commercials on hulu.com.

    The premise of these commercials kind of irks me. The Microsoft team basically tricks people into thinking they have a new operating system and then says "oh, by the way, we lied to you. It's Vista."

    The reason this irks me is because Vista is not bad because of its interface, it's bad because it's fundamentally flawed. This of course would not be demonstrated in these 'Mojave' commercials.

    For example, the 'Mojave' demonstrators are not likely to go to a random computer user's desktop, attempt to upgrade their system to Vista, and ensure that all of their peripherals continue to work and that they can still function productively. If you have ever attempted that in a realistic environment, you may be laughing sadly right now.

    So what about users who buy a new system with Vista on it. They should have no problems, right? Well, my friend who favors Apple recently bought a Vista system so that I (an XP expert) could get him hooked up the way my XP system works so smoothly and with all the cool stuff.

    The result? no dice. I can't do a goddamn thing in Vista. Seemed like every single thing I wanted to do, wouldn't work in Vista. Threw up all kinds of strange error messages. After a few hours I said you're on your own, dude.

    I officially expel and deposit human excrement on the operating system known as Windows Vista.

    I'm staying with XP for now. I love XP. XP works just fine for now. My next upgrade will probably be to a multi OS system with Mac OSX as the default OS.

  • I like to say that as a technology instructor, I find that Vista has its challenges. Many of my students who are not computer savvy find Windows XP much easier to use than Vista. I use both Vista and XP on two different laptops. I have to admit that I tend to use the XP laptop more often because of issues with Vista. There are things that I do like about Vista, but I would like it more if the interface was easier to use and would stop crashing on me. I think Microsoft should take experienced users opinions into account and quit trying to say that Vista works just fine. If it does, then why is so many users unhappy with Vista? Think about that.

  • I honestly feel offended by this so called "experiment"...twice.

    I've been using MS since the old MSDos. I developed software and systems (some quite complex).

    I'm not a specific fanatic on linux, unix, amiga, microsoft or mac. I do hate however the "trocidation policy" I see on MS and Intel.

    But back to my point:

    I'm not a kid that just took a look at my 1st pc with vista today. So if I feel that vista is no good, than i'm probably right... and it the only way to sell it is FORCING into new pc's and every other I.T. guy out there feels the same as me... Then i'm surelly right.

    Why go all the way and create an clearly manipulated experiment to try and call me (us) stupid.

    Vista is not the way to go! Stop trying to brainwash-me! Either rebuild the thing (like XP's 370mb sp2 compared to a 530mb original version), or just dump-it and moove on. Improve on 2k3x64 kernel! Create better tools to improve XP's networkability, upgrade the kernel to take better advantage of multicores and amd's cpu's.... there's so much to do there!

    And by stating that vista in not the way to go, i don't mean i hate it for the faulty drivers and stuff i've read on over the web. That's probably my last concearn! I have an Asus A7S laptop that is VISTA ONLY supported. And it's running XP X64.. so after installing it, I spent over a month to make it stable with drivers unavailable form asus.

    Do i like XP? NO... I love XP x64.. cause it's stable and makes sense to have a 64bit O.S. on a 64bit machine. It's easy to work with and doesn't crash. I have not one single bluescreen yet, and i have for over 1,5 year. It's uses every day and sometimes it's running for weeks. It renders 3D, premmiere movies, VisualStudio 2005 and 2008 projects with database engine installed, runs vmware virtualized servers, etc. On top of this i use symantec AV and adaware anti-spy. No problems, no crashes... nothing.. just plain fast and stable, leaving me with nothing else but the work-in-hands to do! And that's what a O.S. should do. Create the basics to enable you to work and earn money.

    I don't care about fancy windows, i disable the pimped up xp looks to make it faster... i don't care about wizzards, i code them if i want to... and i really hate to keep confirming my actions to my pc.. if i click a buton, than i want it to do something instead of asking me if i've gone crazy and started touching everything just for the hack of it.

    This same laptop takes over 5 minutes to run vista alone. Needless to say that some software will not work, and most actions will eat up more cpu and memory. ohhh and every time i do something out of the ordinary i'll get a dimmed screen and a confirmation dialog.

    This it just unproductive.

    Vista was designed for kids and low tech users. But then again, is this YOUR market MS? Cause...do you really believe my boss is going to upgrade hardware and O.S. (and place a 4gb-ram QUAD-CORE with 2 GPU's on my secretary's deskstation) just to send a couple of emails and run office to type fancy letters? Just how realistic is that?

    Please Leave XP as is... upgrade on XPx64... BE YOU OWN instead of running after MAC OS looks.. Theyr's unix based and control both software and hardware...you have no change to beat-them on their ground.

    And please don't offend us Power users that create solutions using your technology. We are helping to sell licenses of your products we are not your enemy... just don't take us for fools.

    Making me lose a month switching my laptop from vista to XP for lack of support is offensive. It's a full month that i'll delay a product using your technology...we both loose!

    Showing off this baddly done mojave experiment is both disturbing and offensive. Offensive cause i'm no idiot... i have bases for stating that vista is bad. Disturbung because this time and money should have been spend either improving on what's good or at least fixing vista.

    Kid's use to say it's not theys fault no matter how evident it is... shame on you.

  • torn8o
    1 Posts

    My thoughts blogged here:

    http://stormseason.blogspot.com/2008/08/thoughts-on-windows-vista.html

    Currently running with SP1, but still experiencing setbacks. I would rather you go ahead and start working on Mojave for real at this point. :)

  • CSM
    3 Posts

    I have a Inspiron 1525 with Vista, and after installing SP1, works almost perfectly except for a couple of BSOD!! anyway there is no problem... it´s a Microsoft classic ;). And about security well read this:

    http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid14_gci1324395,00.html

    Honestly you don´t need to make the switch from XP. If you like try with another OS like Opensuse (I love it) or Leopard (it rules!).

  • Kinda interesting RandyB, but doesnt the reason that vista runs so badly is because the Inspiron 530 integrated graphics suck!  The author says so himself, and I quote:

    "After playing with the machine a bit, I also discovered that the built in Intel graphics chip was woefully underpowered for running Aero or doing any photo editing and it only had an analog SVGA output — my high end Samsung 20″ monitor with DVI inputs wouldn’t look so good with that. So I ran out to Staples and grabbed the baddest graphics card they had in stock, a PNY NVidia GeForce 8500GT PCI-X graphics card,  a mid-range business graphics adapter for Vista which I arguably overpaid $30 for.  I re-ran the Vista-built in performance tests and came up with an overall score of 4.8. Not too shabby for  a $750.00 machine."

    What does this mean, well it means you need very good integrated graphics for Vista to run well.  The average machine in 2007 had really poor integrated graphics hence why Vista runs below par on those machines.

    What was sad was that many PCs with ATI integrated graphics from 2007 were capable of running Vista well, however the AMD cpus were outperformed by Intels cpus at least in Laptops!... and intel integrated graphics suck on Vista!

  • RandyB.
    4 Posts

    Here's an interesting article on a Ziff Davis author performing the Mojave experiment himself...

    "My Inspiron 530 arrived this week, all shiny and new. I thought I would be able to use it as-is out of the box with Vista, but to my surprise, the Quad-Core 4GB machine barely would run my most favorite Windows applications adequately with all the Vista bells and whistles turned on. It performed like a slug, to put it gently. Sure, I could have turned a bunch of the effects off, but if I was going go use a machine designed for Vista, why wouldn’t I want to run it with its most optimal settings so I could experience it as Microsoft had intended it?

    What would have been a powerhouse for XP or Linux turned out to be a very entry level machine for Vista, and it needed a bit of  “pimping” to get up to spec.

    can’t say that there are features in Vista that are so compelling that my applications run any better now than they did on an equivalent 2GB Windows XP VM running under Ubuntu, or in a XP dual-boot on the old machine with 3.5GB RAM. I did notice a considerable increase in application startup performance after sticking a 1GB USB keychain into one of the spare USB 2.0 ports for ReadyBoost, but geez, wasn’t 4GB of RAM enough for this thing?"

  • Oh and if this was really David Websters idea, and not a marketing trick thought up by a team of people... but a genuine attempt to answer a question...promote him for his out of the box thinking!

  • Interesting experiment, the results would be really good if not for the fact that they were carried out San Francisco, the nerd capital of the world.

    What this proves is that for nerds, like myself telling us a lie like "this is the new windows" and showing it to me will make me giddy with excitement, and give you good scores.

    This does suggest that most people in San Francisco can like Vista on fairly average modern day machines, but it does not prove that Vista is superior to XP.  To do that you could have shown them an XP computer with say a new color scheme, and new icons but left everything else as is... then compared the two results.

    Probably though, the average person will like Vista the same as XP on a average machine in Mid 2008.  Of course the average spec of a machine when Vista launched in 2007 was way below the DV2500, that of course was not really Microsofts fault, just that hardware vendors made slow machines with poor graphics support that could not support Aero.  Most low end machines back then only had 512mb ram and Vista does need more than 512mb ram!  

    Remember that the DV2500 cost US$1,984.56 when it was launched in August of 2007 (According to Cnet), so it was above average spec when released... so it should run Vista well!

    Depending on how you see this experiment with its really bad controls, here are some possible conclusions.

    1. Vista is really great - Microsofts sales team sucks and should be fired?

    2. Vista is great, but only now that the average spec of a mid range PC has increased in 2008,  - Microsofts sales team are saved!

    3. This is a great marketing trick by an influencer internet marketing agency, actually that is probably a fact, as if this was a study..it sucked as it has no true controls, it doesnt even attempt to have a good controls.  Microsoft may be able to use this to change the perception and sell more machines by Christmas!

    4.  The Apple Mac vs PC adds were just to funny, and you just cant compete with that... Not unless you hire an ad agency to make a PC vs mac ad that would hit back hard on Windows strengths.. like gaming.  I mean how hard would it be to state that Macs have no games and dress the PC character up as Master Chief and steal MACS Girlfriend!

    Actually someone kinda did that already

    http://www.our-picks.com/archives/2007/02/05/the-pc-vs-mac-ads-return-now-from-the-pcs-perspective/

    All in all, good news for Microsoft as Windows Lovers can now throw this badly designed experiment into the faces of Mac and Linux lovers everywhere... kinda like politics!

  • Hello all,

    I was one of the participants in the Mojave Experiment. You can actually see me in the video saying how great Vista really is.

    Let me just say shame on Microsoft! We were led by the nose through seeing Vista in what I now realize was a very narrow light. Free items were being thrown at us left and right including meals. The demonstration room was an amazing display of lights and backdrops and technology. The hottest Microsoft reps were there basically performing everything but lapdances on us in order to make us feel as compfortable as we could. Yeah, I did say that Vista is really good - but after getting ridicules by my friends for being suck a dumba$$ for Microsoft, I went down to CompUSA today and got a refresher in current computer offerings. What I think at this point is VERY different from what I was sold for Mojave. If I were to purchase a new computer today it might be a MacBook or Vista. I'm not sure.

    Vista/Mojave was not bad to try and I had fun, really. I just want to go on the record as saying it's not as great as I thought it was at the time I said it.

    lol.

  • It would be beneficial if we could see the participants thoughts today on the matter.

    Have the participants had a chance to use Vista and the other latest OS's in the real-world and do they still rate it a "10"?

    Without participant follow-up, Mojave isn't really definitive of anything. For all we know, those same participants went to a store, tried Vista for themselves, hated it, and then bought a competing Mac computer instead.

    There's nothing in this Mojave experiment that really makes any point. It's all so controlled and vague with little data regarding the outcome state for people to determine anything useful.

  • zaq
    1 Posts

    "All participants were either Mac, Linux, or users of versions of Windows that came before Windows Vista."

    These participants were presented a demo of Vista. These participants were not allowed to play with Vista. These participants were not shown the new versions of Mac or Linux offerings. This was all done with an ulterior motive to show us how utterly stupid a hand-picked group of participants can be.

    I'd love to hear from those participants now. Have any of them purchased Vista and tried it themselves? Do they like it? Do they still rate it a 10? Have they chaecked out comparable operating system offerings?

    Did anyone on the Microsoft marketing team go to school - or is marketing tactics like this just developed ad-hoc? That would certainly go a loooooong ways to explaining Vista.

  • Interesting video and marketing tactic.

    I noticed the demos were canned and none of the participants had hands-on time with Vista.

    Aside from all the problems with this type of marketing ploy, Microsoft still isn't showing us the ROI or solutions provided with Vista.

    All this is is spin. Frankly, put those same people in a room with OS X or Ubuntu, have a salesperson run the same canned demos and I'll bet Vista would lose to the same crowd. Of course, Microsoft can't/won't do that because they know Vista does not actually deliver on its promised ROI.

    In any case, showing only one product through a canned demo while tricking users and then claiming broad success (ie. the "we told you so!" line)is about as slimey a marketing ploy as could be constructed. Now we also hear that all the problems we previously faced was because we were simply too stupid to appreciate Vista (ie. "The earth is not flat! ads".

    What a waste of $300 million dollars. That $300 million could have been used to build the features that were originally promised - but no, it's simply going to be pissed away on one of the worst marketing hack jobs in history.

    Yes, I OWN my copy of Vista and use it on a daily basis. I'd rate it a 6-7 once you tune everything. I'm assuming the people on this video wouldn't have a clue how to tune anything, so I suspect their "real-world" scores would be closer to 4 or 5 if they had to use it in real-life.

    Real-life. Something Microsoft should look into more.

  • Hey John, how much does Microsoft pay you to suck their balls?

  • amdnet
    1 Posts

    Had no idea Microsoft would fall this low, dont make a fool out of innocent users. If you truly want to fix vista rewrite it from scratch. There is no other way!

    By the way update this blog page, at the botton it still says 2007 (hello! its 2008)

    © Copyright 2007 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

  • Woah. The salesperson ran the demo? The participants simply saw a canned demonstration? Oh how low the mighty Microsoft marketing machine has fallen. You could perform this same routine with any operating system and people would wow all over it.

    Why does Microsoft continually bungle their marketing plans? A better demo would be to give each participant a laptop with OS-X, Linux, XP, and Vista on it. Have the participants attempt to do what they do in a normal day (ex. check e-mail, browse the Internet, write a document, etc.). Then let's see them rate Vista after all that, otherwise this whole exercise is a complete bust and the time wasted could have been spent on much better things (like getting more Extras written and delivered).

  • Drakee
    4 Posts

    Let us understand what Microsoft is really saying here. In a nutshell, Microsoft is saying:

    1. You, as a customer, are stupid.

    2. You, as a customer, are the reason for Vista's problems.

    3. There is no problem with Vista.

    4. There never was a problem with Vista

    5. We've resorted to tricking people to get them to see the benefits of our product.

    Guys (gals) - this is about the worst marketing ploy I've seen yet. Apple does nice, elegant ads that address solutions for people. Microsoft ads simply tell us how stupid we are. Great marketing. Brilliantly stupid really.

    This, btw, is coming from a person running Vista right now. Works great on this new laptop, but please, don't try to convince us that pigs fly Microsoft. All you've done with this "experiment" is embarass yourselves with really poor techniques.

  • Um, didn't Apple have the 'Search' feature (the one that a majority of those people were impressed about) in OS X about 1-2 years prior to Vista's release called 'Spotlight'? Also not everyone can afford Vista Ultimate.

  • Thomaz
    1 Posts

    Been using Vista for a year now. Not one crash. My half-ass laptop is equipped with a 1.86 Ghz processor and ONLY 1 Gb RAM. Turned off some unnecessary services and adjusted the visual effects a bit and it runs like a charm. Startup takes 35 seconds. And every program I ever used on Xp are Vista compatible too. I have no idea what all this Vista bashing is about. Maybe all the Xp users out there are too cheap to invest in all that MEGAexpensive extra RAM or something? Or is it the end of the world because that one icon isn´t where it used to be AND looks different and it sounds beep instead of blooop when I click it now? Come oooon.. I won´t ever go back to using Xp again, just like I won´t buy back my old Mazda either just because my fat ass fits better in the seat. Come on people, everything evolves and moves forward. So should YOU. =)

  • My opinion?

    (Average end users get a pass on this one)

    Any "Tech", who cannot get Vista to work properly or figure out why it's not, needs to have their IT certs revoked.

    WE are the TOP of the food chain in IT, yet WE are the ones doing all of the whining and moaning on blogs and boards? That does NOT compute.

    1. If you built your system and didn't check the HCL or SCL BEFORE you built it, then the problems are your fault, buddy. Vista has nothing to do with your negligence. You're supposed to be a tech. RTFM!

    2. If you bought a system from any of the major manufacturers and simply "trusted" that they did everything right, then you're naive.

    3. If you get a client who is complaining about Vista, you should be able to tell them what the problem is. A blanket statement that blames the OS, shows your laziness/inability to do your job.

    I've deployed Vista effortlessly because I did things the right way. I made sure that ALL hardware and software in those environments were compatible and I did my research in depth.

    People who aren't prepared to do their job should just shut up and/or get out of the way of those that do.

    Respect your craft and your tools. Eventually word WILL get out that some IT persons have rolled out Vista with no problems. Think about it...what will that do to the reputations of those who had nothing good to say about the OS?

    The consumers feed off of what we give them. DON'T GIVE THEM A SOLUTION THAT YOU HAVEN'T TESTED AND PERFECTED FOR YOURSELF! Vista isn't difficult to get running quickly and efficiently when you know what you're doing. END OF STORY!

  • dovella
    303 Posts

    sosico , it's possible 100%

    you use normal XP or XP cut with Nlite?

    Use Vista genuine, + hotfix + sp1 +

    Superfetch work FINE!

  • sosico
    1 Posts

    I think that they were really trying OS X, and they were fooled into thinking they were seeing "Mojave" LOL.. Vista much faster than XP, that is impossible!!!!!! LOL you guys made me laugh with this "experiment"

  • iRead
    36 Posts

    IMHO, The PhD's should sue Bob and so should Microsoft.

  • Floob
    1 Posts

    I was a Vista hater, as I first tried it out when there was almost no support.  Random hangs, BSODs, unstable; it was terrible.

    However, I recently purchased a new M1530, and I've realized Vista isn't so bad after all.  With proper drivers and SP1, Vista is fine.  

    Vista does take some time getting used to, but Vista/Windows 7 will be the dominant OS in the future.  May as well start learning now.

  • I have been in computer since 1980 and i can say we have had huge improvements. you remember windows ME, god awful thing Microsoft did to cutomers. remember XP when it came out, man it sucked whale turds for a long time.

    Vist well it is very unstable, even in just explorer, crashes maybe 30 times in a night, very odd that Microsoft has not been sued on this, when I spend $4,000 on laptops in a professional environment and  none of the staff (all PHDs) can get it to work right, well you owe me $4,000. I am so pissed off at Microsoft on this that does the word class action mean anything, remember what happened to GM when it was proved they knew about gas tank safety. Or the Drug Company's selling drugs that they Knew were killers.

    If anything corporate greed has torpedoed America, Microsoft has been part of a huge theft of American and the Worlds money through plan stupid greed, using us as a test base to get the bugs out, why Vista will not run Microsofts own programs without crashing, since the computer cannot work with a defective operating system my laptops are junk, and I want my money back on the computers, but it is too late, but not for legal action.

  • WIT-JPO
    1 Posts

    Here's an idea. If you don't like Vista then don't use it and don't waste time writing about how you don't like it!

    The Windows ‘Mojave’ experiment was a clever marketing idea but makes a good point. If people can see the quality of the product and ignore the rumour mill then they will like it!

    Personally I am a huge fan of Vista/2008 over XP/2003. I have been using it in full production now since SP1 became avaliable.

    I would like to see some improvements to the RSAT and WDS features but expect these will come over time as they have done with pervious versions of Windows.

  • Gabhan
    4 Posts

    Whatever way you look at it, users are clearly unhappy with Vista. And much more so than they ever were with XP. In the case of XP unhappiness at release time seemed to centre around stability and security, and licensing to some degree.

    However, anger here seems to be much more about features and priorities. Whilst few would argue that Vista isn't a step up in terms of the graphic design of the OS, it is 'at what cost' that has people detracting.

    When people start to see missing and (in many cases) clearly removed features which they depended on, and other functions tweaked - and dumbed down - this is what gets up peoples noses.

    If Microsoft were listening to it's customers they would realise that no amount of spin and FUD on their part will turn the heads of previously loyal customers who find the operating system makes it harder to 'get their work done'. Basic searching by file and folder name - for example - has been made much more difficult - when this clearly wasn't broken to begin with. Search is now trying to be clever - but it can't do the basics well any more.

    So when others say - 'Get coding' - I think they are referring to 'get our basic functionality back - please!!'

    As for (MS) people saying that the criticism is 'the Anti-Microsoft' lobby - this is rubbish. I am a huge MS fan, but find that Vista is making my life harder than XP ever did. And with no way back at this stage - it just isn't good enough.

  • kwdaves
    10 Posts

    I think I will throw my two cents in here. I was impressed enough with RC1 that I bought a HP laptop with the free Vista upgrade disk in late 2006. Then I did an unsupported upgrade from XP to Vista for a HP desktop with an Athlon 64 X2 processor. Both performed well and I was happy I upgraded. Recently I bought a HP with Vista 64 bit and I love it.

    The only problems I have had were with a Gateway that I bought last July (I don't blame Gateway). When  I uninstalled a trial version of MS Office 2007 and installed my own copy, MS Update would not install some patches that had previously been installed on the trial. Repeated attempts to reinstall according to directions from MS email support did no good. I also uninstalled a trial version of McAfee's Security Suite and installed the free version from my ISP. I don't remember what happened but it didn't work.  Eventually I just reinstalled from the recovery disk. Even though I knew there were risks in doing so,  I had 4GB of RAM installed in the Gateway. I began having occasional memory management related BSOD's. It turned out that IE7 became unstable when McAfee's Site Advisor or AVG8's Link Advisor were enabled. Although the Gateway has behaved itself for months now, I can understand how someone whose first encounter with Vista was similar to mine with the Gateway would be unhappy and blame Microsoft for their problems.

  • dovella
    303 Posts

    I have not seen a single spot where apple could present the future of its system.

    only thing I can do well is FUD against Vista and against Microsoft.

    PLS MICROSOFT

    REMOVE SUPPORT BOOTCAMP, destroy compatibility with Parallels, VMware etc in Mac hardware.

    and then I want to see what will have to say these gentlemen

  • @Mkyte, your statement looks so so funny, lol

    "Already have. Thank you. OS X 10.5 with XP in Boot Camp (Vista takes up way too much HD space)."

    Vista takes up too much space? OMG, how about this? Check the default MAC OS X 10.5 which comes with Macbook/Pro/iMac and see how much space it takes? And also put a fresh installation and check the space...what you have written is FUD. This is why Windows Mojave is there. May be you could join the Mojave team and ask for a test schedule.

  • Xepol
    45 Posts

    I'll grant that Vista is better than its reputation, but that said...

    I'm suspect when the fully story behind this comes out, MS is going to seriously regret this "experiment".

    Amazing how people said exactly what MS wanted, almost like they were reading scripts written by a marketing department.  Just like the late night tv infomercials...

    You could put it on after the absizer and before the car wax that is fire-proof.  I don't think it should follow a chef tony infomercial tho... you know the one where everyone in the audience is supposedly a professional chef but looks more like street people in badly misfiting chef-like-outfits?  People might get "the wrong impression"

  • dovella
    303 Posts

    http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2008/06/29/randall-stross-jumps-the-shark.aspx

    The 4 real problem Vista

    M.T.F.I.

    Misinformation

    Troll

    FUD

    Ignorance

  • dovella
    303 Posts

    @MarcoAlmondine

    and you wont work phooshop elements with  1gb ram????

    PLS go to HOME !!

  • someone
    156 Posts

    What about power users who know Windows inside out, who've used Vista and haven't liked it at all? What about those who're concerned about removed features and GUI redesigns which take customizability away? What about those who have authoritative knowledge on Windows yet they are annoyed with Vista?

  • spin54
    2 Posts

    I have played about every game released on both xp and vista and about every single game runs just fine or better in vista x64. Other than driver incompatibiilities, I really have had little to no problems with gaming.

    And My networking performance in vista is nearly doubled that xp pro.

    that said, it's still not as amazing as this stupid marketing ploy makes it out to be.

    And someone mentioned there is a part that says "You have to try it foryourself."...

    That's the funniest part of all of this. Not even the people in this horrible "experiment" tried it for themselves. they sat there and wantched MS employees show them things.

    One thing this little project did absolutely 200% well was exacetly what they are claiming it wasn't for... which is pure BS. It is creating tons of exposure and hype for Vista. That is exactely what they wanted from this no matter how much they deny it.

    People aren't stupid. they know how big corporations work (I digress. Not ALL people are stupid. Some people in this little focus group seem pretty ignorant).

    Anyway, we know how they think. There is so much subterfuge and purposeful misleading behind the scenes. this was nothing but a publicity stunt. not a little sweet innocent experiment. Trying to say it is one is an insult to our intelligence.

    Overall, I reccomed making the jump to vista to anyone with the hardware to handle it. I had been dual booting on my old p4 3.2 and on that prefered XP for the stability and speed. that is also with 2gb of ram. I have only vista on my quad core now and it's great. That said, it was pretty bad with only 2gb or ram. Since upping that to 4gb of ddr3, it's great.

    And as stated before, that machine isn't the standard yet that they were running it on. When everyone is on Cor2Duo and Quad cores, then I will support telling more people to step it up to vista. Till then, Xp is fine. It gets everything done vista does.

    I do see the validity of the claims of this little nauseating stunt though. My dad "hates" vista and he has never used it. It's pretty funny how bad of a wrap it's gotten from word of mouth. i tell him over and over it's a good OS but he refuses. He had me build him a new OS and wanted XP Pro or nothing. I happily obliged since it was a budget system and XP gets the job done very well.

    I am happy with my vista machine and my XP machine. I just think this publicity stunt labeled as an experiment is a bunch of BS.

  • Synner
    1 Posts

    I read an article about the Vista how it is supposedly a better OS than to XP. I wondered if this assertion was correct?

    I am a gamer by nature and the only way I am going to spend an exorbitant amount of money on new hardware for Vista and for the OS itself, is for Microsoft to do a comparison with two PC's running with the exact same hardware, drivers, etc, and with the latest benchmark software and games, i.e., 3DMark, Crysis, Unreal Tournament 3, Company of Heroes and World in Conflict, etc. Now have this done by an independent agency that gamers' can trust. Once the results are posted and if Vista is shown to be the better OS, then I think more gamers will jump on board, but until then, I will stick with XP.

  • I was really looking forward to Vista a year before it launched.  Did not get a new computer right away and then my girlfriend's sister was complaining about her computer over Christmas visit a year ago.  Slow, crashy, annoying.  I'm enough of a power user to act as the family computer advisor so I said I'd take a look.  Figured she just needed to clean out some background processes, uninstall buggy shareware, update drivers, scan for viruses, defrag, add RAM, the usual.  Turned out the thing seemed pretty clean and I really couldn't figure out any problem.  Meanwhile, however, in just 20 minutes I hated Vista so much that I still have not gotten a new computer nor put Vista on my current one.  Here's why:

    1) Every time I changed *anything* it would pop up some dialog box asking if I really wanted to do that.  It was so annoying I could not believe anybody would put up with it.  How did this survive even the earliest user testing, or wasn't there any?  When I Googled this problem people talked about UAC and how you can supposedly turn it off, but others complained that turning it off did not really make all the dialog boxes go away.

    2) Performance is terrible.  In the case of the computer mentioned above, the hardware was a one year old notebook (today 2.5 years old) with decent if not great specs like 1GB RAM, yet the owner was complaining about how slow it seemed.  Everything more or less worked but she couldn't believe there wasn't something wrong.  I couldn't see any reason for it to be the case as she had very little software installed, mostly Microsoft Office.  After reading up on the heavy hardware requirements I advised her to turn off Aero and up the RAM to 2GB, but she installed XP instead.  Maybe in another year or two Intel and nVidia will have added enough performace to their chips that Vista overhead will disappear.

    3) Too different from XP means there's a lot to learn to get familiar with it.  Even the Control Panels are so rearranged that just taking a look into what was going on with this Vista computer left me ill at ease that I could figure out the state of affairs, let alone feel confident taking charge of the machine.  On XP I feel comfortable editing registry scripts etc.  Moving to Vista would require an investment of easily tens of hours of reading up to regain the same level of proficiency.  Not insurmountable, but I've already been through this type of thing going from DOS to Windows, 3.1 to 95, 98 to 2k.  In all those cases the upgrade in features or stability was quite noticeable and worth the effort.  But let's be honest, it can be several months of on & off frustration as you bump into things that don't work the way you expect them to.  Fortunately there's now Google to help you find other frustrated users who already solved the same problems.  The upshot is that changing from XP to Vista is probably best done when you have a month or two of downtime (say between projects at work) so you can learn to use it without bogging your work productivity or destroying your emotional health.  Frankly I have not heard anything about Vista that makes it seem like enough of an upgrade over XP to make me willing to undertake the effort.  I've invested so much time in learning how to set up an XP computer so it'll be as fast and stable as it can be that starting over isn't appealing, which by the way is the same reason I don't want a Mac even though my girlfriend's Macbook Pro is a beautiful product.

    4) Expensive.  I got a retail copy of XP Pro because I wanted full control over a clean install, no crapware.  My Thinkpad was $3300 and XP Pro retail was $200.  Today a decent basic notebook is $750 and Vista retail is ~$300.  Yes a new computer comes with Vista preinstalled, but if you know what you're doing you almost have to reinstall clean once a year or so to keep things working smoothly.  I won't bother talking about how it would be nice to have an OS that doesn't require maintenance because we'll probably see cloud computing first.  Meanwhile I don't see any reason why Microsoft can't separate the install bits from the license: you ought to be able to download the latest build of the install disc from microsoft.com, and if you own a license key it will work, and if not it won't.  That's how retail software works today, at least all the utilities I use.  I really hate that you've paid for a license key when you buy a computer, but only for the OEM version, and all you really get is a restore image full of crapware, not the ability to decide how to set up your machine.  You either have to submit to a bunch of bad decisions made by other people who have money at heart rather than the user's interests, or shell out a bunch of extra money so you have control.  Yes it's the hardware vendors installing crapware but it's Microsoft's fault you can't use the key on the sticker on your hardware to clean install from a retail CD.

    5) No obvious reason to upgrade.  The marketing materials show 3D Alt-Tab.  Maybe some stuff for photos or videos that I already use other software for like Photoshop Elements.  In other words I don't have a problem that Vista solves.  It certainly looks prettier than XP and if it were small work and expense to change, I'd do it in a heartbeat, but that's not what I gather it will be like.  It is going to be very expensive in both time and money and I can't tell you one reason why I want to do it, even though I'm open to finding one.  

    I'll buy Vista when I see bloggers and journalists and IT nerds saying things like: it used to be bad but now it's great.  The average comment today seems like: SP1 made it a lot better than it was, it's still got noticeable problems, but I can tolerate them because it's too much work to do a clean install of XP.  Personally my opinion is that a 5 year old Thinkpad T40 is getting a bit long in the tooth and I'm looking foward to a new W series when they ship, but I'll be keeping my retail copy of XP around in case I don't like Vista.  Official support for XP with a full set of working drivers downloadable from the manufacturer website is a requirement for buying any computer.  I'm open to trying Vista by having it as the default install on my next computer but I want to make sure I can fall back to XP if I still hate it.

  • I love all the nonsense bundled in these anti-Vista sentiments. Some of you sound like you were in the aforementioned focus group and have your knickers in a twist because someone pulled the wool over your eyes, showing you what an uninformed, easily-led twit you really are.

    I performed a similar experiment. I took a Windows Vista Business x64 machine, and loaded a skin that looked exactly like Windows XP. Blue taskbar, green start button, big fisher-price-esque Minimize/Maximize/Close buttons, etc. Changed the background to the standard bluey-grey "Windows XP Professional" BMP that you get with Windows XP. Put all of the standard software that our client requires on it, and showed it to him; he was adamantly against Vista by the way, having never used it.

    I said "Here, try this out. This is an update to Windows XP, it changes some of the interface, let me know what you think." He messed around with it, and absolutely loved it. "Is this Service Pack 3?" he asked. Then I turned the theme back to the standard Vista Aero and said "That's the same Windows Vista you dislike so much."

    All his new machines through us are Vista x64 now, and he's had no complaints. They're rock-solid stable, and very fast.

    A pseudo IT professional will piss, moan, bitch, and complain until they're blue in the face about Vista. A *real* IT professional probably has plenty of deployed systems with Vista on it that give him very little headache, and plenty of time to play Solitare at his desk. I know I do.

  • ciisco
    1 Posts

    On the video link, you show one person that says you have to try it yourself.  The problem is I HAVE tried it myself and like many was too frusturated and downgraded back to XP.  

    I agree with one post that if you gave others who also tried Vista a chance to respond about this, you would hear a resounding difference in opinion.  

    All I'm saying is this - when a company has to try this hard to 'sell' it's product to the masses to change their minds, that in itself is bad news.  True, going by one person's opinion is not always ideal and should find out for yourself.  But when many opinions that shift toward the same idea, especially those with experience,  its a different story.

  • I worked at Dell when Vista was released.  Dell did not leap into Vista, in fact, nearly a year later when I was laid off Dell had made no moves towards upgrading to Vista.

    Ask yourself why one of Microsoft's biggest and most loyal partners would not jump on the Vista bandwagon?

    However, another comment to the posters here.  

    You have very short memories.

    This all sounds very much like the bruhaha when XP was delivered.  It did not run well on old hardware.  It did not support some software and drivers were missing.  

    Dell waiting a while to upgrade from Windows 2k also.

    Windows Vista is ready for primetime finally.  The problem is that there was a concerted Anti-Vista campaign that XP never had to deal with.  Companies were ready to upgrade to XP as soon as their hardware would handle it.  Also, the difference in hardware requires between 2k and XP was smaller.

    Mojave and other projects are an attempt by Microsoft to do two things, one honest and one...well...market driven.  They want to see what public opinion is of Vista when there are no preconcieved notions.  Everyone "knows" that Vista is slow and clunky and unusable, so they tell people it is something else, and see what they say.

    It does however also give them fodder for a new marketing campaign that has nothing to do with Vista being better.

    Last comment.

    While I think Vista is okay now (note okay, not great), it is far from perfect and...most importantly...

    ...it has big upgrade costs (because of hardware) and...

    ...it offers no compelling advantages.

    Advantages?  Sure, it has them, but not compelling ones.  For many businesses who are not upgrading hardware this year it may make more sense to wait for 7.

    And, I work for the IT department at a state agency, and we won't be upgrading any time soon, but several of us are using Vista at home to get ready.

  • dovella
    303 Posts

    Apple = FUD!!!!

    Fat hardware

    Fat Price!!

    Stop trolling!

  • In spite of the developing flame war with propaganda and generalizations being mixed with facts and fired at posters on BOTH sides of the isle, no one has touched on the very basic point (in my eyes) of this experiment:

    In spite of the propaganda put forth by Apple ("I'm a Mac!") and other sites, blogs, news stories, etc. Vista is not bad at all. Microsoft is showing that, when you remove influences of anti-Vista propaganda, users are impressed with Vista and are willing to try it.

    I thought the “I’m a Mac” commercials were cute at first. Eventually, as the campaign wore on, they got more and more outlandish to the point of skirting utter falsehood. Anyone in IT could look at the ads and see how painfully misleading they were. Experienced users could tell the fact from BS but, to the computer-novice public, those ads were very convincing.

    I use many operating systems in the course of my work, from Linux to MacOS to Windows, and I think all of them have their merits. They all excel in one way or another. To discount Vista would be premature and closed-minded. I could give a ton of reasons why Visa was lacking when it came out but that would be living in the past.

    I built a system recently and installed Vista Ultimate. It was the easiest install i have ever done. Unlike XP, the basic drivers included with Vista allowed me to use my NIC, something I rarely if ever saw without manual driver install in XP. This is just one example from my own experience on how I think Vista made things a little better.

    Don’t like UAC? Turn it off. Don’t like the new start menu ? (me too) Switch to the old style. Most of the things I have seen that annoy end-users are features that are easily disabled.  After that I rarely hear complaints.  People struggle, sometimes violently, against change. Vista being poor out of the gate did not help the situation, but in the end, it’s an OS that my company and I rely on.

    So, after several months on Vista, I am happy with it and have had no major issues. To be fair, it has taken some getting used to, but I am happy I upgraded.

  • BuckFix
    36 Posts
  • dovella
    303 Posts

    mkyte

    you love

    crash cover flow, crash front row, crash safari

    reste P ram reset Vram

    incompatibility and big fat price hardware?

    great productivity

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Uhr6IKA6Q

    who is fat ??

    http://channel9.msdn.com/forums/Coffeehouse/409176-Who-is-Fat/

  • mkyte
    2 Posts

    Already have. Thank you. OS X 10.5 with XP in Boot Camp (Vista takes up way too much HD space).

  • dovella
    303 Posts
  • Balcor
    2 Posts

    Good marketing ploy for those that can't see the forest for the trees.  

    The issues I have with this:

    1.  Was there any other software installed on the machines?

    2.  Did the users actually get to play with the OS or did they just watch a MS expert run it?

    3.  You say it's not a top end machine but the vast majority of people out there do not have core2duo machines yet ... so that would still be considered a vast upgrade from what the majority of users have currently.

    As a user and an IT professional... I'd have to say Vista falls below XP Pro significantly and even further below OSX.  In fact, the only good thing I can say for Vista is the desktop wallpaper looks a lot nicer than XP Pro.. and that's it.  

    ps.  As for searching.. I've yet to encounter an end user that actually uses the search feature in ANY version of Windows.  People just go to "Documents" and find the file they want.  I think the whole indexing feature is one of the big slowdowns for Vista.  I know Windows Desktop Search in XP pretty much killed most machines that had less than 1gb of RAM.  

  • mkyte
    2 Posts

    Love the video wall built in Silverlight. Oh wait, it's Flash

  • Just like an SUV test drive!!!

    If you gave people an SUV to drive for 10 min, but they never had to park it or fill the gas tank, people would love the big seats and smooth ride. Then blame the media/blogs/PR for people not liking SUVs.

    Quoting Chris Flores:

    "The Mojave Experiment is just that: an experiment we conducted on the fly that yielded interesting results."

    If this is an experiment, it shows the quality of work that has created Microsoft Vista. The subjects were lead around the OS by the nose -- this was not daily use. Where is the control?

    These users did not have to do any of the things are broken, so Microsoft Vista looks good. As soon as they own the computer, and have to do the weird things that users like to do -- then we will see the rating drop to 4 or lower.

    This is and advertisement with an elaborate premise and a thick coating of theatrics, not anything more.

  • dovella
    303 Posts

    @spin54

    Ubunttu??

    Ubuntu???

    40 min. Start up

    50 Min shutdown

    no good driver nvidia

    slow down M.A.M.E.

    crash crash crash Compiz

    crash firefox go go!!

    SLOW SLOW and SLOW

    non driver for modem USB

    non driver for more and more periph.

    PLS back in future, and see my video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXS-BfTGn7g

    Vista is THE BEST S.O.

    and STOP

  • spin54
    2 Posts

    This was such a bunch of garbage.

    First, I like Vista. Lots. But this little "Experiment" that you claim isn't a marketing scheme is a bunch of crap and everyone knows it.

    I could take Ubuntu and run it in front of some computer illiterate and not let them touch it and they would give it a 10. Then let them touch it. Let them try and install it or let them try and upgrade their machine. Let them try things themselves. Their tune changes. They will run into the same crap Vista does. Incompatibilities. Etc. However they won't run into a lot of the crap Vista does such as major slowdowns. Boot up and Shut down issues. Random crashes. Not near as much anyway.

    This is a completely invalid attempt at proving perception is biased. Not a single ounce of this counts until they can actually use it themselves. These people need followed up with. Now that they have been tricked into thinking vista is so amazing and have went out and bought it, go ask them how much they still like it after trying to install it themselves. After they have actually used it for a month.

    I like Vista. I am used to it. It still has it's problems.

    If someone is going to sit down and show off all the cool features of something then of course people are going to like it.

    If this wasn't done by a trained MS rep and people were allowed to actually use the program themselves, this would have been much much more legit.

    And none of it is worthwhile if you are shoving this in front of people that have no clue about computers. These people would be absolutely amazed with google docs if they had never seen it before. You could show them VLC and they would be amazed at how "fast" it plays movies. They are clueless. Using ignorance as a marketing tool is awesome.

    There are so many little blurbs on those videos to make fun of. I mean the girl that was so amazed with Windows Flip 3D. She obviously doesn't even know about Alt-Tab. OMG! If she used alt tab in XP, she would have just said "Wow. it's alt-tab in 3D!". Give me a break.

    EPIC Fail.

    I will admit, the Virgo girl made me laugh pretty hard. People are so dilusional.

    Good times.

  • john
    673 Posts

    @Dozer42: Push back, and take a chill pill. How niiice of you to regurgitate crap you've heard and try to sound like you know jack!

    The worst OS in history? Because?

    No single advantage to Windows Vista your customers need? Why don't you take the time to list their requirements here so we can help you.

    So, since some people have issues with it, that is endemic of the OS?

    Microsoft does not publish Quickbooks. Intuit does. Ask them why!

    SO you're a box-pusher.

    Shame on you for

    a) Not being a good enough Microsoft partner to learn about the benefits of Windows Vista

    b) Not being a good enough consultant to correctly learn about what is best for your customers, and

    c) Not being a good enough salesman/saleswoman to actually sell a solution to your customer, instead of calling ad asking for the PO number of the day!

    So, by being a scrub, you foist an obsolete OS on unsuspecting customers in order to retain services income?

    35 seconds flat? What was the name of that series featuring Brian Benben? Yeah, dream on.

    FOrcing Windows Vista on customers at retail?

    Dozer42, shake yourself, OK? You're not selling systems like hotcakes. You're barely hanging on.

    Am I wrong?

    Then identify yourself. That way we can truly tell if you're real, or just a droid with crayons trying to get a rise from this issue.

  • dovella
    303 Posts

    Hey Dozer 42

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXS-BfTGn7g

    this is My XPs 1530 Dell (pay 790 Euro)

    And Software work fine all in my OLD PC

  • Dozer42
    1 Posts

    Microsoft is in some serious denial here.

    Windows Vista is the worst operating system in history, next to Windows ME.

    There is not one single advantage to Vista that our customers need.

    It's slower. Apps run slower, games run slower, as you can see just from the posts here, it likes to intermittently and without reason come to a crawl.

    Many applications and peripherals simply do not work with it. Why should I pay Intuit another $150 for Quickbooks Pro 2007 when I just paid for 2006? Why doesn't it, and so many other programs work with Vista or it's useless compatibility mode.

    We sell hundreds of computers every year. We ask every customer whether they would prefer a machine with Vista, or Windows XP. They look surprised when we ask them this, because they thought XP was no longer available? Every single one of them goes for the system with XP without fail.

    We take brand new Dell Vostros w/Vista Business, and because we're Microsoft Certified Gold Partners we can legally downgrade them to XP Pro, and we do so.

    The result? A clean, FAST system that boots from power-button to surfing the web in Firefox in 35 seconds flat. It runs all of their applications, works with all of their peripherals, runs every game faster than Vista ever will (even the ones that require DirectX 10 can run with some tweaks).

    Honestly the fact that Microsoft is forcing Vista on users at every retail store has been a huge boon to our business. Because we're just about the only ones who sell machines with Windows XP, and you can get them today, NOW, we've been selling computers like hotcakes.

    Thanks Microsoft! Just keep doing what you're doing!

  • dbm1rxb
    3 Posts

    Chris, I wish I could agree with you, however, I just finished my fourth complete recovery of Vista since February. I am so disgusted with Vista compared to XP.

    Rich B.

  • john
    673 Posts

    About time, Chris.

    Goes to show that a lot of the 'issues' with Windows Vista comes from unfounded FUD against Microsoft by biased IT media.

    Also, thanks for calling out the panderers at Forrester for their waffling.

  • Compumind
    34 Posts

    PLEASE READ THIS!

    I watched the "mojave" video snippets and I just have two questions to ask...

    1) How *MUCH* did you pay these people?

    2) How did you tranquilize them?

    Enough said.

    ;0)

  • MattB
    1 Posts

    I don't think this really proves anything other that someone at MS can edit video.  If an OS needs an MS profession there to show you how to use it then I think something is wrong.

    Don't get me wrong.  I have always run MS OS's and they have always been great products.  I was excited to run Vista when it came out and I have been using it for over a year now.  However, after more than a year on it I am looking at buying a Mac now.  I spend far too much time waiting for Vista, every click seems to have a period of waiting after it and I'm running it on a pretty powerful machine.

    It's a bit sad but I'm not loyal enough to MS to loose that much productivity

  • It would have been funny if the test PC was a "Vista capable" labeled PC from when vista was first released (with Intel integrated graphics)....

    Anyway, I must say that Vista has moved on from utter useless garbage to a pretty good OS. since SP1 I have not had a single crash or freeze(knock on wood)and now that Nvidia finally figured out how to code Vista drivers it's giving XP a run for it's money in gaming!

    I'm using the 64-bit version and I have to say it's brilliant. Probably Vista won't be able to replace XP on everyone's PC just yet but it's certainly getting there.

  • Sorry Chris, as a former MVP I am very capable of taking midline hardware and making XP screamingly fast on it, out of box. Once I start loading software and active x objects and web components and spyware and spyware fighters well then everything gets sloowwww.

    Wanna see fast? Install 98 on modern hardware, doesn't mean its a secure or well built OS.

    Flashy cars may be pretty and sporty cars may be fast but that doesn't mean the two are good for off-roading.

    I have a 100% free and legal copy of Vista sitting on my desk at home, and I have never installed it. Partly because I'm not sure what machine I would like it on and well, once its activated I will be stuck on one piece of hardware. Easier to grab a PCLinuxOS cd and run it and not have to worry about the lockin to one piece of hardware.

    Don't get me wrong, as soon as I am required to have vista I will use my free copy, however, it will be a measure of last resort.

  • All I can say it read Comment 2 again. That just says it all.

    It's a fundamental thing not something that some slick marketing can overcome.

    Please stop spinning and start coding.

  • zotter
    1 Posts

    This is exactly what frustrates me about MSFT.  I’m your biggest fan … and this is what you come up with?

    I have news for you.  I’ve been using Vista on a high end Dell workstation.  Frankly, it is terrible.  Please invite me to your focus group and I’ll spell it out for your undercover cameras.  This OS is so crapified that it kills me to use it.  On a daily basis, I wonder, “WTF”…

    For example, I have a dozens of apps installed.  My screen is 2560x1600.  Why is the listing of programs crammed in the lower left hand cover now?  I could go on and on….. it is amazingly obfuscated.  Windows Obfuscated would be a better brand name.

    Why don’t you take a billion dollars, take a small subset of experts in the company, throw them all under the control of one person to make all the decisions – who also happens to be a usability and design expert….. and then leave them alone for a few years.

    Or better yet.  Spend 2 billion dollars and have two swat teams build a new OS from scratch….

    Btw.  Seriously, Ray Ozzie isn’t the solution.  Did anyone actually try to use Groove within MSFT?  I spent MONTHS trying to get it to work correctly – what a trainwreck!   Groove is a clusterf*ck in software design and the fact that MSFT bought it is very telling.

    Okay, enough rating.

    Good luck on your next OS.

    Krgrds,

    E. David Zotter

  • I have used Vista daily since it came out and it rings true for me that your focus group would be generally impressed. Vista in terms of user experience, look and feel etc. is pretty good. I have also been using a Mac daily for the last three months and that has made me, if anything, more impressed with Vista. Both OSes have their problems in various areas. Both have really useful features that the other lacks. OSX is not substantially better than Vista.

    However, Vista does have one problem that OSX doesn't and that is unpredictable hangs, freezes and delays. OSX goes to sleep and wakes up again in a matter of seconds - always. Vista takes far longer and there is a lot of hard disk activity for a long time after wake-up. Also, yesterday I closed down about 30 application windows (Excel, Outlook, Word, Powerpoint, Visio, IE, Explorer) in order to reboot the PC. It took over 5 minutes for the machine to finally get around to letting me close the last window.

    This is the critical issue Microsoft needs to fix with Vista. When it works, it's fine. It just keeps you waiting from time to time with no apparent reason. It's not that frequent but it shouldn't happen at all. I can't believe 90% of Microsoft employees from Steve Ballmer downwards haven't seen this for themselves. Please realise that it provides all the ammunition Apple & Co need.

  • I have a couple of issues with this "Mojave" experiment I would like to share. First of all, there is no direct way the general public can give feedback about this experiment unless they join this blog community. When I hit the "Contact Us" link, I had to sift through several pages before I was able to find a page of contacts for customer service. It then took me a 10-minute online chat with a very helpful Microsoft agent to find this blog, only to discover that then I had to join in order to just say a few reactionary comments. There needs to be an easier way for the customers to put in their two cents.

    Secondly, it disturbs me that the initial site gives no detailed information as to where the study was done or in what areas of the country. You do, but not the site. We know for sure there were 22 hidden cameras. You say there were 120 ppl polled, the Web Site says 140. Is what you are talking about a separate study? Are there any plans to do this experiment with current Vista users to see what they think?

    Also, were the test subjects allowed to take Windows Mojave home with them to see if it was compatible for their personal needs? Did they have that option? Will the test be conducted in other parts of the country?

    Those are just my personal concerns, but over and above those is the need for a direct feedback system. I believe that is vital to connecting with the customer, allowing them to obtain more information, and above all, ease their concerns. Because when I first saw this project, it struck me as a way to decieve ppl into using Vista. And I'm a diehard PC user. Can we make this process a little more democratic?

  • So you say you didnt give them a Geeked out PC, but if i where you i would have given them just the basic windows vista. Cause thats what i have and its not the best OS on the block. I would rate it like a 4.0 cause it has 'sudden stop and do nothing' syndrom, that gets really really annoying when im trying to type out my Humanities Essay, so yeah, not such a great OS, i would have expected more from Microsoft.

    Sonny

    iBlogtech.org

  • dovella
    303 Posts

    NICE!!!!!!!!!!

  • ScottB
    1 Posts

    Hi Chris, this seems like a really interesting experiment and you said you're sharing the results with the public, but clicking on your link I can't see where the results are published on www.mojaveexperiment.com.

    Can you advise?

  • I would probably rate Vista higher if I could pay someone to run it for me like your demo has.  Unfortunately, I have to use it myself, and that is why regardless of whatever your demos stats are, I know for a fact that Vista is waaaay more awkward to use than WinXP.

    I've got Vista Ultimate on my box, and the only thing I like about it is Media Center, which is so good it totally does not belong with the rest of Vista.  I love it and it is the only reason I haven't reformatted and put WinXP on the box.

  • yert
    39 Posts

    Finally! I've seen a few, and I have to say that I'm looking for the Linux user so I can laugh at them for eating up all the lies. Sure, Linux is a good operating system, but Vista is too!