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A common thread we’ve seen in the feedback so far about Windows 8, on this blog or elsewhere, positive or negative, is that people using Windows 8 for the first time might need a little help getting their bearings. For me, the best way to get acquainted with a new operating system is a lot like the way I got acquainted with the moving parts in a lot of the gadgets I tinkered with (by which I mean my parents’ stuff that I broke) growing up: just start messing with it. I know other people, though, who like to read before beginning or read as they go. You might be able to relate to one of these styles, or you might be somewhere in between. Either way, I hope some of this info can help you use Windows 8 even more quickly and efficiently.
The Start button has been one of the best known images in Windows for over sixteen years now. I’ll admit, when I look in the corner of my screen and just see an icon for Outlook, it’s still a little jarring. And I’ve been using Windows 8 for months now. So where did the Start button go? The short answer: it’s still there, it’s just on the right, and it looks a little different now. Also, you can still use the Windows logo key if you’re using your keyboard.
But the question isn’t just where the Start button went. It’s also about how to do the things that were there before, which is a perfectly fair thing to ask. Let’s look at a few of the way Windows 8 helps you get things done.
I touched on these briefly in my post Introducing Windows 8 Consumer Preview, but there have been some more questions since then, and I didn’t go into depth at that point, so I wanted to look at the Search and Settings charms more thoroughly, since they relate most closely to navigation and getting around Windows.
Broadly speaking, there are two ways to use the Search charm. The first is to search from the Start screen, and the second is to search within apps. Let’s begin with the Start screen.
When you use the Search charm, the first view you’ll see is a list of all of the apps on your PC. That’s because by default, the search is set to Apps, and since you haven’t entered anything yet, all (or none) of the apps match your search criteria. As you begin typing, the view changes in real time to include only the things that match what you’ve entered. On the upper right are options to filter your search to Settings or Files, so you can quickly find what you need. The Settings filter (go straight to it with Windows logo + W) shows results for tasks (like “Change display settings”) as well the names of parts of Control Panel (like Windows Mobility Center), and the Files filter (Windows logo + F) contains further controls to narrow your search by file type.
Searching from the Start screen also lets me look at results for the same search in multiple apps quickly. So if I’m going to Tokyo on vacation (Hi, Tokyo! I miss you!), I can use the Search charm to easily read in Internet Explorer about the city and the best places to stay, use a travel app to check on airfare, and then obsessively check the weather every day until I leave. I just open Search and enter “Tokyo.” then I can click an app and see the results, and when I’ve read what I want to, I bring search up again, and since my search term is still there, I can just click another app and see what it gives me.
You can also use Search when you’re already in app. One of the comments on last week’s post asked how to search the Windows Store, since browsing through all the apps is a little cumbersome (and will only get more so as there are more and more apps in the Store). The Search charm works if you want to search the Store, but it does something even better: it gives you one place to do the same task every time you need to do it, in any app. Rather than going to a different place in each app to search, you can go the same place every time. To find a contact in the People or Mail apps, look at the city where I’m going on vacation (some day) in the Weather app, or even search the internet in Internet Explorer, I can do the same thing every time. You’ll notice that when you use the Search charm when you’re in an app, the results just go right to that app. Like before, you can jump right to the results from another app just by clicking its name.
The Settings charm contains several more things that were in the Windows 7 start menu. The very first thing that slowed me down the first time I tried Windows 8 was where to go when I wanted to restart my PC. The Settings charm has settings specific to the app you’re using – Accounts in the Mail app, for example, or Control Panel and Personalization in the Desktop. So like the Search charm, it gives you a consistent place to go to look at settings for any app.
The Settings charm also has a few commands that show up no matter what you’re doing. These include a few of the things you might have used in the Start menu in Windows 7.
This is where you can go to view and change network properties (including airplane mode), control the system volume and screen brightness, change the language you type in, restart, sleep, shut down, and turn notifications on and off. There’s also a link to PC settings that shows up no matter where you are in Windows.
I mentioned using the app bar for pinning a moment ago, but it’s useful for lots more. The visual design we’ve used for Windows 8 emphasizes more of the content you want and less visual distraction. This doesn’t mean that all the commands you use are gone. It means that now, they can float over what you’re working on and then go away when you don’t need them anymore. Just right-click a tile or swipe down to select it, or right-click an empty space or swipe in from the bottom or top of your screen to bring up the app bar with commands for the context you’re in.
When you select a tile (swipe down or right-click), the app bar includes commands that pertain to that app. So you might see Open new Window for Internet Explorer, Open File Location for Windows Explorer, or Larger / Smaller for tiles that can be wide or square on the Start screen.
When you’re on the Start screen or in an app, swiping in from the top or bottom of the screen or right-clicking an empty space brings up the app bar with commands for that app (you can also use the Windows logo key + Z). This is where you can find the Accounts button in the Mail app, the News button in the Finance app, the Places button in the Weather app, and similar commands for most of the apps you use. Each app had its own set of options on the app bar, but you can get to the app bar the same way in every app.
You can use one of the commands, or just tap or click back in the main part of the app to dismiss the app bar.
In Windows 7, you can find programs or files by just clicking Start and then typing. Results appeared quickly, and if you were after a program you knew you were going to use often, you could just right-click it and pin it to your Start menu or to the Windows Taskbar. In Windows 8, it’s pretty much the same thing. Click Start – you can also click the lower left if it’s more comfortable – or the Search charm, and just start typing. If you’re using touch, the Search charm will bring up the search bar, and tapping the search field will bring up the touch keyboard. If you’re already at the Start screen, you can right-click it or swipe in from the top or bottom to bring up the app bar (more on that in just a minute), and click to get a list of all the apps you have installed.
You can click (or tap) an app to go right to it, or if you want to pin a tile, just swipe down or right-click it for options, including Pin to Start. You can use the same steps to unpin something later if you decide you don’t need it on the Start screen anymore.
I mentioned the lower-left corner as another way to get to the Start screen, but it does another cool thing in Windows 8. If you’re using a mouse, you can right-click down in the corner to bring up a menu with quick links to some common administrative and power user tasks.
In Windows 8, you’ll notice two kinds of apps. The first is the familiar windowed programs that run on the desktop. If you’ve used Windows 7, you’re probably pretty familiar with how to switch between them. For this kind of app, the taskbar works well for switching apps, so we’ve left it where it was. The other kind of app is the full-screen, immersive app designed for Windows 8. These are designed to be full-screen, with no distracting borders or buttons. (Like I mentioned a moment ago, the app bar floats over your apps and then disappears when you don’t need it anymore.) We’ve made a few quick and easy ways to switch between these apps and arrange them.
If you want to go back to the last Windows 8 app you were using, just swipe in from the left side of the screen or go to the upper-left corner with your mouse and drag in. The last thing you used will come back up full-screen, and whatever you were just using will tuck in behind it. You can keep swiping to go back further or, if you want to just jump right to an app, just swipe in from the left (or use your mouse), and then before you let go, swipe back out. You’ll get a list of thumbnails of previous apps, and you can click or tap to go right to the one you want.
In Windows 8, these full-screen apps don’t run at all when you’re not using them. For any app that’s inactive for more than a short time, Windows will save its state, capture a thumbnail (that’s what shows up in that list), and stop using memory and processing power for it. This makes everything run more quickly so you’ll never need to close a full-screen immersive app to improve performance. When you go back to an app, it just wakes up and picks back up right where you left off.
Using full-screen apps is pretty great. It gives you more of what you want to use and less space wasted by distractions. But when we were making Windows 8, we wanted a way to look at more than one thing at a time while still keeping the beauty of clean, efficient visuals. (And we didn’t see any examples out there that we loved.) By snapping apps to the side of the screen, you can keep working efficiently, but you can also keep other information close by. So if you want to keep your stock ticker up while you’re doing some work or reading the news, it’s pretty easy to do. Just drag an app in from the left, and instead of dropping it in the middle of your screen, hold it toward to the left side. You’ll see a preview of the new layout, like this:
You can drag it over to the right (to have the larger app on the left), or just drop right on the left to snap it there. And you can always drag the handle on the divider to the left or right to switch which app is larger, or drag the divider off the side of the screen to remove the snapped app from the view.
Like I mentioned a minute ago, apps that are inactive will stop using memory quickly to help keep your PC running efficiently. But if you’re like me, you might be a little bit of a control freak and want to manage the size of your recent apps list. You can use Task Manager to stop the apps altogether, or PC settings to delete your recent apps history (under General), but if you want to take away one full-screen Windows 8 app at a time, you can just swipe in from the top (like bringing up the app bar) and keep right on going to take the whole app right off the bottom of the screen (with a mouse, just grab the top and drag). You can do the same thing from the recent apps list on the left of the screen. Just pull the app in like you would to snap it, but pull it all the way to the bottom instead.
When we first showed a demonstration of Windows 8 several months ago, it was clear very quickly how easy it is to use touch to get around Windows. But not everyone has touch hardware yet, and even as it gets more common, we want to make sure you can work exactly the way you want to with no compromises. One of the most efficient ways I work is with my keyboard. When I’m not using touch, I use my keyboard constantly. The more keyboard shortcuts I have, the happier and more productive I am. You might have noticed that I’ve put some keyboard shortcuts throughout the paragraphs above. Those are just the beginning.
The key I end up using the most is the Windows logo key . It works exactly like the Start button. Press it once and you’re at the Start screen. You can start something or search, or you can push the Start button again to go back to what you were doing before. (This is exactly how the Start button worked in Windows 7, too. Click once to see the Start menu, and again to put it away.) There are also a whole lot more shortcuts that use the Windows logo key. For example, you’re probably familiar with using Alt+Tab to cycle through apps you have running. You can still use Alt+Tab, but if you just want to cycle through full-screen Windows 8 apps, you can use the Windows logo key+Tab to go through the list using the thumbnails view.
If you’re not using touch, keyboard shortcuts are another super fast and easy way to get around Windows. In fact, they do more in Windows 8 than they have in any other version of Windows. To help you out and keep you flying around Windows as fast as your fingers can carry you, I’ve put together this handy chart, and I made it big enough that you can print it out and hang it up somewhere if you want to. (Or you can just memorize it – your choice.) You shouldn’t consider it final (Windows 8 is still a work in progress) or completely comprehensive (you might find some goodies I’ve missed), but it should get you moving around Windows pretty well. Happy typing!
Click to view a larger image. For printing, download the PDF or download the XPS.
If it’s taken you some time to really get moving in Windows 8 or you felt like you were facing a learning curve, hopefully this has helped you out a little. I can honestly say that on my Windows 8 tablet and on my laptop with a trackpad (I don’t use an external mouse because it’s one more thing to carry around), I’m moving around Windows faster than ever. A little practice, and I bet you will to.
Kent Walter Windows Team
Some feedback for you after using the preview for a week.
The search charm is out-of-sight, out-of-mind. I just don't think to use it... I was in the store wondering how to filter and never even thought to use the search charm. I think apps need a way to at least redirect users to the search charm. My wife asks why she would even think to move the mouse up in the corner and go to that icon to change anything the store is showing.
I really dislike the metro file-open experience. I miss things like large icon/detail views from the traditional open dialog. The visuals feel very primary-school amateurish.
Some metro apps won't start on my desktop machine (but do start from my tablet). ex: Music, Video, and Weather start up and terminate immediately. Maps open fine so it's not a resolution issue. This is a nice, modern PC running at 1280x1024.
I really want to create vertical 'gaps' in the start screen tile placement - ie vertical groups. It slams them back together, how do I make the separation?
Having two editions of IE is super confusing. My kids are mystified by this b/c sometimes they start it from desktop and other times it starts from Start screen. They play a few flash games which fail from the metro version. why? Why is the address bar at the bottom of the screen in one and top of the window in the other. Also, they stumbled onto the ability to see a list of tabs by right-clicking. What the heck???
One application I installed shows the wrong icon in Start but correct icon in the full list. I unpin and re-pin but it's still wrong. I can't right-click and change any properties from Metro start. Please add that ability as I'll want to change icons for some applications.
The side-by-side application feature does not work for my desktop (it does on the tablet). I drag in from the side and the running app shrinks a bit so I drop and the main app re-expands (no side-by-side).
I tried adding a user for kids and the experience is so disjoint with some things in PC Settings and others in the classic Control Panel. What gives there? More to come?
(I found watched Jensen Harris' video as well so I'm fairly sure I understand how things *should* work -- I'm just underwhelmed.)
Two internet explorers..why? The Windows 8 is not a single OS..but a combination of muliple OS's trying to appear as ONE. Disjoint and very confusing.
@jschoedl: The minimum screen resolution for the side-by-side feature is 1366×768. Please see en.wikipedia.org/.../Features_new_to_Windows_8 for details.
I've been using the consumer preview for a couple of days now and I am quite happy with it so far (I am only using mouse and keyboard at this point so I can't comment on the touch screen experience).
Yes, there is a learning curve (it is a new OS after all), but I am getting used to handling the new charms and simply clicking the upper left corner for quickly switching between apps/programs.
If you're running primarily desktop apps, there is no difference as you can start and switch those via the taskbar just like you're used to.
Of course there are many things that still need fixing but I am aware that this is a beta version.
For example, my laser printer won't work with the consumer preview and while I really like the built-in windows defender, why does it now allow me to scan a single file or folder via right-click like windows security essentials used to?
Anyone who's going to read this entire thing is already cool with Win8, the complainers won't. Anyway:
The search charm is out of mind because you've just started using it. After you search for something more than twice I'm sure you'd get the point. Tiles only group together if you drag into that same column.. drop slightly more to the right and you'll be in a different column with a vertical gap. If your kids open IE (or Firefox etc) from the desktop, they should expect a desktop window. From the Start Screen, anything with a bright full-color tile is an immersive app. The resolution for snap is I think a minimum 1366wide
- IE has double-tap to zoom for touch. I expected the same when I double click with the mouse
- If the Start screen scrolls when you mouse to the side, how come none of the apps got the memo?
- Speaking of apps, WHY IS EVERYTHING SO HUGE. We know the icons in the app bar are big enough for touch, so why are elements like the tiles in Skydrive so big? This is why your users are saying Metro is only for touch, because everything in this environment is badly designed for using space at appropriate resolutions. If I have a bigger screen, I should have more stuff on my screen. Detect for mouse if you have to, though I think it still holds true for tablet.
See what the Photos app does with semantic zoom to give a regular grid? Every app should switch between "more stuff" and "bigger stuff" and do it automatically. I want to use WinRT apps on the desktop and there's no reason for bad design that doesn't flow to fit my screen. That should be definition of fast and FLUID.
- The hot corners should be so much bigger. I don't understand this pixel precision requirement
- Apps should have access to accent colors, like on the phone. The effect is amazing. If you have sharp white icons on tiles for your apps (like the phone), I shouldn't have to contend with a mishmash of bright orange tiles and purple tiles and green tiles. Yuck.
I love metro, my beef is with Microsoft apps regarding my data as second class citizens in my computer at least give me an option to go straight to my collection in music app.
Also i did like to manage libraries in metro or from the metro apps that depend on libraries
e.g to set up the music library to check on extra folders i need to go to desktop, i think this is bad usability especially on a tablet.
I installed Win8CP on my laptop, over my Win7 pro. During the last stage of installation, it asked me to use my Hotmail credentials, but it was impossible because I didn't had Internet connection in that moment. It was mentioned that I can do that later, so I skipped it and used my current User Profile password and Name (Administrator).
When I installed Win8CP, and tried to swich from local to my Hotmail (Microsoft) account, it doesn't realy switch it, just change my name to email address and that wasn't enough because I see on SkyDrive application which says "To use SkyDrive, change your account settings", which is very strange.
But, I tried to create another User on my laptop (NB: I have only one account, with Administrator rights) and that new user profile can associate itself with Hotmail credentials, I can see my Hotmail name and picture on the right corner in Metro and I can use all applications, including SkyDrive.
So, does anybody had simmilar problem and is there a solution for this situation? I ask because all my applications, files and settings are under my primary Profile and it will be very hard to switch to another User.
Is there any possibility for reinstalation of Win8CP to have my Hotmail (Microsoft) account associated to Win8CP, but to preserve all files as I did when changing from Win7 to Win8CP?
And, does my problem have something to do with the fact that I am trying to create Microsoft account on built-in Administrator account?
Ivan S. V.
Here's my issues that I've had with the Win8CP. First, my netbook's small resolution is apparently not supported for most if not all the metro apps. That's rather disappointing since supposedly Win8 is going to use less resources than Win7, I was hoping to leave it on there. Second, just put back the start button, you don't gain anything by removing it, I just click IE a lot by mistake trying to get to the Start screen. Third, I would rather see the Windows key pop up all the possible hot corners rather than have to mouse all the way into the corner to get them to activate.
That said, I think it does a very nice job as a touch interface and actually the one that surprised me is how nice it works on my htpc. I can use the IR remote to navigate the tiles so I can avoid using the wireless keyboard more.
@ivan_v - I had EXACTLY the same problem, so I reset (not refreshed, as that keeps user accounts and the problem was with user accounts) my PC and now everything works inc. the SkyDrive app.
Thanks for the post. My thoughts thus far: (btw, power user since the 70’s, no touch screen) Many of my comments are from trying to put myself into the position of the less sophisticated user. But in the end I myself was finding a few things undiscoverable.
• I love the direction for tablets. However, I think mixing the desktop in, even after a LOT of practice is a bit disjointed. I am doing a LOT of going back and forth between 2 IE’s. Favorites are not synced obviously, and I have a very large group of organized favorites and am unsure as to how to deal with this on Metro. Am I to recreate my entire favs list on the start screen folders and all? That’s a LOT of stuff on the screen. If I am just supposed to go back to IE desktop for this purpose, well… I can handle the back and forth but, kids?, moms?, grandma? I don’t know man, this isn’t simplifying the process, IMO.
• Removing the Start button altogether does not give a newbie type user discoverability. Sure on a tablet, there is that big button, (just like on their IPAD), but on the desktop, it should be discoverable. EVEN a STAR instead of a START button would give me something to work with when I try to talk someone through a process over the phone: click star (start) then printers, has turned into “move the mouse over the bottom right of your screen until you see a bar come up, then click settings, then more settings? Or control panel? Actually when they are in the desktop screen they don’t see anything because the show desktop button gets activated, but in the metro world they do see the charms bar. Inconsistent. And having a “more settings in the same settings window as the “control panel” gives a very jarring and inconsistent experience as well.
• Keyboard shortcuts. Are for power users, period. Glad to have them but not so great for the average consumer, and that is the person that will be experiencing most of the confusion to be had here.
• Scrolling. I can move my mouse to the left or right on the start screen. That is great. But not in any of the apps. Common sense would tell me to use the arrow keys to scroll left to right. Nope. Scroll bar on my touchpad scrolls GREAT on Start Screen, but not at all on ANY apps that I have found. The mouse wheel also on the MS Touchmouse does NO side to side scrolling unless I am on the start screen. Not in any apps. (I will guess that this is coming?) See USA today and LA TIMES apps.
• START SEARCH – probably what I use the most. However I rely on it to search within Outlook. I will assume that this is coming and just not enabled yet. Nothing so far. I like the implementation for the most part though. But there really is nothing on the screen to suggest that I could click on the individual apps to search within them. I mean with all that screen space it would seem obvious to have a small explanation on screen to tell the user that they can click on individual apps to search within them. Even a moron proof animated arrow pointing to them or something would be better than nothing at all.
• There should be video tutorials – at least in the beginning or even forever, there is so much room in the bottom bar. Wouldn’t it be neat to remove ANY questions by having a demo button that would be like a help button for each app? It could move a big circle around the screen of each app sort of giving a small tour of the OS. Or even a getting started app.
• Printing – I used to be able to tell someone “click File-Print” now I have to say “click the lower right of your screen, oh you don’t see it? You must be in the desktop, try the upper right of the screen, ok now keep the mouse glued to the right of the screen and pull down and go to devices, then find your printer in there and click on it.
Just a few thoughts. Thanks for listening. I teach people all day long and these are just a few of the frustrations.
Why Ctrl+Alt+Del is missing in the awesome Keyboard shortcuts map?
I am afraid the more I use the Metro Interface the more I am taken aback at the amount of extra steps I am having to take to do just about everything. Seeing how everything is full screen and having to push everything back into a window is simple astounding. 2 internet explorers? does that mean there will be 4 Internet explorers on a 64bit machine? The ability to launch multiple apps at once seems kind of cool. Not sure why you would want to but cool none-the-less. What are "jumplists" shown in the Taskbar Properties? Getting the "Charms to stay visible with the mouse is an utter pain in the butt 99% of the time the appear and disappear before I can get my mouse up over them. The Network sharing center is a bit weird. one link opens in the current window the other opens a new window. Geez Make up your mind.
I also noticed that Stardock has already jumped on the fact that there is no start button. They have released a replacement just for windows 8 preview. If they can make a start button in less than 2 weeks I think You guys can manage to put one back into window. I sure hope you do.
I am really loving the Windows 8 experience thus far. However, there needs to be an easier way to shut down with only a mouse. That is my biggest complaint. That, and bringing together the two "everythings" such as the two Internet Explorers. I wish that the mail program and those others were a bit more powerful, but I realize that they are simply previews so that doesn't make my list of "issues".
I don't mind the switch between metro and the desktop setting. I realize that once more things are done as metro apps, it will make more sense. The dependence on the desktop will only lessen as you need it less, and that is ok.
Why do you guys think there is such confusion among users when they don't see a start menu anymore? Because they are fundamentally conditioned for that button to be there. You cannot expect to take that button away without users wondering how to get to their programs.
I think your expectations are grossly interpreted. The metro user interface is supposed to be easy to use; however if users cannot find how to get into the metro interface then you already failed at an 'easy to use interface'. The removal of the start button is a very poor misstep; and I can gaurantee if it is not put back into the retail version of Windows 8 this product will do very poorly in the marketplace - based on the experienced Windows user advocating to others to skip Windows 8 and keep Windows 7 to all of their relatives and friends who are not computer savvy. That same consumer feeling will spread to Windows 8 on tablets as well; if people see this operating system as being clunky or taking too many steps no matter how well Windows8 works on tablet people will have the general impression it's not good anywhere - desktop/laptop/tablet.
Poor UI - You cannot expect someone to figure out that invisible hotcorners are how to navigate an operating system. No one will ever figure that out without someone telling them. Another user interface misstep; don't assume someone is there to hand hold a new user; you need to make a user interface that is intuitive and easy for someone to figure out on their own. There are ZERO clues that the four corners actually do something. Infact I advocate you make the right side and about 100 pixels outward a 'zone' that if you mouse into the charms bar shows up; so if you place your mouse anywhere on the right side of the screen (and 100 pixels in) that it shows the charms bar. The same for the left side showing the metro task manager.
You need to put the start button back on the bottom left of the screen where it was in the developer preview. Sure you can say its redundant; but that is the exact point of Windows - the user has multiple ways to do tasks. This is the reason there is a ribbon interface in explorer - if someone wants to use the ribbon they can; otherwise they can use standard right click or other methods to achieve file operationg without using ribbon. Why exactly is it a problem that the bottom left cannot retain a VISIBLE start button that lauchnes the metro start screen?
It seems someone (a designer likely) decided that no icons, and no hints on how to use the interface is in charge, this is like telling someone driving a car they can press their foot on the invisible gas pedal for the car to move, and the invisible brake to stop the car; expect a head on collision.
Start Menu - this one is also very easy to fix; when you RIGHT click on the desktop anwyhere; a context menu shows up, this menu is mostly useless as it is not accessed very often; how about you add at the very top of this TASKS > SEARCH, RUN, ALL PROGRAMS and it lists all of your installed applications in a submenu. This gives back users the functionality of the start menu WITHOUT having to go into the metro start screen; and in fact is adds a 'roaming start menu' for power users - something previous windows versions did not have. Again its about choice; those that dont want to go into metro should not have to; and those that do have that option available.
Just add the start button back already, this is not complicated. Windows should be about users choosing how to use hte OS they want; not how Microsoft tells them they should. Windows 7 was how 'Windows 7 was my idea' and all about how the user decided to use Windows 7; now Microsoft is saying Windows 8 was their idea and the consumer has no choice; well the choice is pretty clear without some basic changes Windows 8 will be only used at Microsofts campus and people will stick with Windows 7 on desktop and laptop; and you will give the compeition another 2-3 years on the tablet if people have a general perception it is not a good OS.
Giving users choice is important, and doing things like hiding methods to access your computer is very poor user interface. Windows 8 should be a transition OS, you cannot make everyone expect to use a tablet-like interface for everything just yet; let Windows 9 be the full metro experience for everyone in 3-4 years; by that time we will have hundreds of thousands of metro apps; hundreds of arm compatible device variations and people deeply integrated into the ecosystem; as it is now you WILL fail if the beta does not drastically change an accomodate how people USED to work on Windows. The people you think will help 'train' others will find it much easier to keep Windows 7 installed than waste time showing them how invisible corners are better for them - they arent.
Also I use a 30 inch screen 2560x1600. Metro does not span across this resolution at all, in fact its right in the middle and takes up maybe 30% of the screen; leaving the rest blank. This isnt very efficient; hopefully you guys are able to stretch these tiles to fit the screen better like you are able to do on windows phone 7.
Two additional resources people may find helpful - derickca.wordpress.com/.../dude-wheres-my-windows-8-start-menu - plus Win8 Shortcuts for keyboard, mouse, and touch: http://docs.com/IOLP
Nice, thanks for the Win+X tip. I like that it even works when in metro apps.
One complaint that I haven't seen come up numerous times, the window color personalization tool is less functional than in previous versions of Windows. In Vista and Win7, I am able to select the slate color and drop brightness until I get the color black. That is no longer possible - someone has forced their color choice on me.
Currently the Charms Bar can be accessed by moving the cursor to upper-right or lower-right corners, rather than that it should be the complete right side, any area on the right side which can enable the Charms bar by moving the cursor. Not just the corners.
I totally love the way Windows looks and works.I love the Metro interface and honestly i dont feel the need to have the start menu there. If I felt so, I would have sticked to windows 7 :P
Microsoft can also customize the Search feature a lot. There should be an option for us to choose the default search category, whether apps, settings, files, or Everything. And there should be more categories, like searching URLs also and not just searching from IE, but from major popular browsers, like Chrome, Firefox, etc.
So in a nutshell, while on Start Screen, I can search everything just by typing it, my files, URLs I visit, settings, apps.
@prakashg Not sure if you noticed, but you can make the Start screen span across the display by going to Settings of Start screen, then turn on "Show more Tiles." I have the same resolution, and the Start screen use all the space there is. Apps are different story of course. Hopefully they'll get better
Windows 8 in it's current form is a DISASTER in terms of design and navigation. Accept that.
1. Not everyone wants an "immersive" Start screen.
2. The frequent transition from Metro to Classic Desktop is what is "jarring", not your little Outlook icon.
3. Context sensitive Settings button on the Charms bar is not at all evident or obvious. Almost no one is going to think, "Hey, maybe THAT'S how I'm supposed to access my app settings."
4. Absolutely NO uniformity in design elements and navigation.
5. You can logout by clicking your avatar and selecting Sign Out, but have to go 3 or 4 levels deep to shut down the PC! WHY couldn't you have just shoved all the options there itself?!
6. Clicking the Network icon in Classic Desktop brings up a gigantic and EMPTY bar on the right save for a small section on the top from where you can access options. Yet, clicking the Speaker icon for volume still brings up the old small volume control slider.
7. Hot corners, no start button, invisible Charms bar etc are going to throw off first time users or beginners. They will just sit and stare at the screen not knowing where to go or what to do.
8. It is pointless having shortcut keys since a lot of people don't use them. Hell, a lot of people still don't know what Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V does!
@Mazhar - you wrote:
"Currently the Charms Bar can be accessed by moving the cursor to upper-right or lower-right corners, rather than that it should be the complete right side, any area on the right side which can enable the Charms bar by moving the cursor. Not just the corners".
Nooo! Most Windows applications have scroll bars on the right hand side, and if I'm in full-screen mode (which I often am), I don't want the Charm Bar popping up when what I want to do is grab the scroll bar.
The upper-right and lower-right corners were chosen for a reason.
Actually, if anything, I would have put the Charm Bar on the left, because it is the closest thing we have to the old Start Button, incorporating app shortcuts, Search and Power settings...
Having said that, I'm getting used to W8, and am relaxed about the changes.
Also the Search feature should be very interactive. I open my PC just to log into my favorite website say msn.com, so if I just type MSN.COM while on the Start Screen and I would be taken to the site using the default browser unless I choose something else with that name from the search results that would come.
Something like that...
Has anyone tried to open those 'charms' on a touch device already? Actually I mean some touch monitor with a bezel. Will the user be able at all to touch on that tiny corner pixel to open it ?
Where the name 'charm' comes from? if it comes from 'charming'... I am sorry to say but I don't think it is charm(ing) at all... better call it 'hid' or something (from hidden)
Small ideas to help make w8 more easy:
- Right-click on start button/hot corner inferior left, display the shut down options. You could also use the middle mouse button, for something.
- Charms: Make configurable via control panel. An option when on Desktop app to change the time of activation on hot-corner. Now its 0 seconds. One can customize to change it to 1 second or 0.5s. That way the user on Desktop dont get accidental (annoying) charms anymore. This setting is needed on Desktop only. On Metro apps it make sense to be always instant. This could be only on charms on every hot corner. An time configuration activation in seconds from 0 to 2. (Just on Desktop or Desktop apps maximized).
- Start Screen dual/shortcuts:
When there are 2 versions of the same app, like IE10 or Photoshop Metro and Desktop you could merge the tiles into 1, and have some indication on tile. A colored Border or something like that. One mouse click->Metro App, double-click->Desktop app. The same with touch Tap once open Metro or double tap to Desktop app.
In preparation for the Customer Preview I ordered in a touch screen in order to give it a fair evaluation. I ordered an acer T231H which seem to have good reviews.
There is a major problem with the interface design with this screen that I so far cannot seem to find my way around. Hopefully it is a simple fix that I am just missing and that someone can point me to.
The edge of the screen has raised bezel about 1/4 high. For the edge swipe commands it is almost impossible to get your finger (my fingers anyways) in close enough to sense at the very edge. This means multiple swipes (20-30) sometimes to get the edges to react. I adjusted the display to a very low resolution and this helps a small bit but kinda ruins the nice screen resolution. The touch seems to work fine elsewhere around the screen.
I posted on the Microsoft forums with no response on this.
I tried messing around with the calibration and intentionally mis-touching the calibration points to expand the area and this can help a bit but then may the rest of the touch area unusable as the co-ordinates are off.
Questions: Is there a registry setting somewhere that can change where the screen searches for its edge.
I still have to call Acer as my other thought was to squish the edges of the screen in to the center but the Horizontal and vertical settings on this monitor are not available to adjust in the on-screen display as they displayed but with no adjustment bar.
I too fail to see the advantage of taking way the stat button. I can give someone an iPad and they can intuitively start using it. The home button is the safety net, when they are lost they just push it. This is what the start button also was on the desktop to some extent. The commands are not hidden on the edge screen commands. My first encounter with a blackberry playbook was the same way. Easy once you know but not intuitive at the start and certainly not something you can look a screen and see.
I am keeping an open mind but just fail to understand the benefit to completely removing the start button. Remember the ideological implementation of UAC in vista and how well that went over with users, I kinda see removing the start button as the same thing.
> But the question isn’t just where the Start button went.
I agree with you - it is not where the Start Button went rather WHY the Start ORB went.
Just what is gained by removing a graphic that is about 15 pixels wide which has served a useful purpose since 1995. This is just stupidity all round. But what can we expect given the disaster Microsoft made of UAC in Windows Vista.
Lets face it, since Uncle Bill Gates took a back seat and then left, the Nerds at Microsoft do not have a clue. Microsoft are risking the upset of millions of existing users for no reason. A small button is just a small button so PUT IT BACK.
Now onto the Metro UI. Come on guys even Windows For Workgroups was better than this effort (and thats saying something). The reason Icons are so useful is that they harmonize with the Human brain for pattern recognition. These ugly square boxes all over the place is making the little things that much harder.
Personally I think Windows 8 is going to be the next Windows Vista. The good news is that hopefully the Microsoft Nerds will take their hands off their private parts and get it right for Windows 9 - because that is when the Business sector will most likely be looking to upgrade.
To sum up windows 8 and to quote an old song - "Nice legs shame about the face".
My biggest complaint would be that the charms bar is so hard to open. Sometimes it vanishes halfway through, I never know how long I have to wait before moving my mouse, I just find it very unsatisfying. The Start/Multitasking Hot Corners work great though, very very responsive and fluid.
Oh, and the Metro music player is HORRIBLE to use with mouse/keyboard. I know this is just a preview, but this really needs an overhaul.
Keep it going!
my 2cents.. I actually like the preview, IT IS A BETA!! there are drivers that aren't supported, some programs that don't work because it's a BETA!! other than that.. I think the new IE App will be fine when\if the net switches to HTML 5. the problems that I'm having are related to silverlight or flash not working on it and requiring the desktop version. the various apps(Music\photos\mail\calendar) are all in progress and I'm curious to see how much they progress into the final release. I'm finding it easier to just use the Live Essential tools(Mail) to track my email and calendar at this point, and either windows media player or windows media center instead of the Music or video aps.
I for one don't miss the start button. if you move your mouse (I don't have\use touch at this point maybe for the Final Release) to where the traditional start button was you get a start button! granted its really a window preview which switches you to the start screen, but from there you can see what you pinned and if you right click and choose show all apps you see everything. I personally don't miss it. I think that 'restart' or 'switch user' needs added to the power charm so that you don't have to go to the start screen and click the user in the top right. but I like the direction its moving and curious what the finish\refine in the apps and settings as it gets closer.
Yes the right area of the screen contains scrollbars for windows - true. So instead of having invisible corners how about a pull tab or panel that you slightly see, that lets people know there is something there they can interact with. For instance if you plug a digital pen into Windows 7, on the left side of a screen is a pull panel that is off screen, but you see something is on the edge of the screen there - they could do the same for the right and left side of the screens. On the right side put a pull tab that if you click/pull it shows the charms bar, on the left if you click/pull on the tab it shows the metro task manager.
Of course ADD the start button back too :)
I have a new idea for charms...
For charms you can just go to the right side of your screen. The thing is, you must hit it twice. Not once, but twice. Complicated? no. The movement is really simple, try. It’s much faster then the go corner, wait go down.
Besides its perfect for dual-monitors. You just have to switch monitors twice. It might seem complicated, but it's really fast and simple and small movements.
One Monitor ->| <- | ->| Charms appear
Dual Monitor ->|-> <-|<- ->|-> <-|<- Charms appear
| Right border of the monitor.
-> Movement of mouse.
->|-> Crossing two monitors
@derickc - Awesome! Thanks for sharing.
@Mazhar - Thanks for the feedback. Re: searching with other browsers (or other apps generally), the nice thing about the way Search works is that any app built specifically for Windows 7 can tie in the Search charm. So if there's a Windows 8 version of Firefox, Chrome, or any other browser, you'll be able to use the Search charm for those as well.
I have put Windows 8 on several machines which are used daily by our undergraduate population.
The majority of feedback is negative. The lack of a Start Button is universally abhorred by the Student group. The students majoring in Design (from a variety of disciplines) universally dislike Metro and the lack of continuity within Windows 8 and Metro. All of them have had issues navigating Windows 8 and in trying to do basic things (i.e. logging out). The terminology used within Windows 8 is not consistent and has lead to confusion. The student's do not use the "charm" bar and out of 50 student user's none have used the new "Start" bar on the "right" of the screen.
All in all, I have had requests from the majority of the student user's to migrate back to Windows 7, to not migrate us as a whole or to replace the PC's with Mac's as there is near universal contempt for the lack of "Start" button. Additionally the student's consistently revert to the classic desktop - avoiding the Metro screens where possible.
1. You're wrecking Win32/64 with Metro. How many applications and structures do users have in Metro? How many do thay have in win32/64? its a 1%/99% split ladies and gentlemen.
2. Explorer - You've mixed small icons and large ones. The smaller ones must have taken a special level of stupidity, and that will become painfully obvious in the post Ipad 3 retina display world you'll launch into. Congrats on this because its at a level of stupid I can't convey heavily enough about. *Fix* it.
3. In metro with the mouse clicking left or right clcik in any dead space, I should be able to pull or drag around Metro. I can't, I have to go looking for cursor keys or the scroll wheel (which incidently scrolls in apps at the same time). Its rubbish. *Fix it*
4. Multiple 'PR' releases are being poured out about windows key shortcuts - and 'users' not understanding Metro. Here is a serious hint. Keyboard shortcut 'fixes' and PR peddling don't fundamentally fix an OS GUI that has to be rescued by keyboard shortcuts. A further hint: Don't peddle keyboard shortcuts in correctives about a Touch based UI - its not going to be appreciated.
5. Your ARM release is as badly broken as the Win release. Its got galloping great big horses running off into the sunset with stable door wide open. ARM will have no viable Win32/64 env. Win32/64 ceases to exist, and its not a win platform, its a metro platform. In exchange for this, you've taken a complete wrecking ball to this x86/64 based OS and enforced Metro as a default, but not only this, to underpin and enforce it, you've wrecked the old UI.
6. I don't think MS is going to pay for user retraining in any of this. The customer will have to do that, and face directly the user hatred on the ground. Because of this, its only right you get fierce feedback levels, because Win 8 and Metro in the context of a Win 32/64 platform is vandelised, and has been butchered quite deliberatly.
7. This release, even after hours of testing took me back to a rotting Win3.1 sensation. One of single app nature, broken multitasking (I understand within the metro technical background the reasons for this, but do not expect thanks for this on powerful desktop units.) and serious levels of clunk. The crashing back and forth in and out of the now utterly smashed desktop is abysmal misery.
8. In an effort to be 'clever' the new OS is in Metro terms vasly simplified. Its so simplified that in reality, end users and admins are forced to learn complex keyboard shortcuts, or hidden UI elements, or better yet, forced to go and find old control panels. Thus, its not a simplified OS, its just got a simplifed crippled garbage front end, is crippled and repellent in use, and is clunky, broken, disjoined, and to long term windows users (your customers) - its vandelised, and badly affects their primary work tasks in terms of getting real work done.
9. The billions invested in applications and in user enviroments isn't free. Its something MS should not go vandelising just because clearly some Metro lunatics got way too much say in how anything should be sold or developed. Its not 1995. Playtime ended a long time ago. If some people at MS think that this is a playground - they better have an attitude adjustment.
10. Quit screwing around. Get the damn start menu and taskbar put back, and make that desktop a viable Win 7 workspace. I don't mind Metro being in the OS and usable, but playtime is over. You failed, it did not work, its seriously time to absorb the ton of feedback slamming MS.
11. I've worked with MS since 95, and I've seen the ups and downs, and rode most of them. This needs pulling and a complete rethink. I'm not even going to be considerate towards it. If its released in anything like this form, its being blackballed and the advice stay away from it will be legion and enforced heavily in all discussions.
I have been in contact with Acer about the touch screen T231H monitor issue with activating gestures on windows 8 that start at the screen edge. (See Post a couple above this one) Any thoughts on how to get an answer from Microsoft on if the sense area for the screen edges is adjustable some how???
This is a link to a youtube video where I attempt to document the problem.(You tube video RSbJZvV7a6I in case this site pulls out the link)
Any help or suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated.
dm stewart WOW!!!
That was serious harsh! But in my mind 100% on-target.
Specifically the bit about using keyboard shortcuts for a touch based system. ( A point I have not considered before).
I hope Microsoft is paying attention. Some of us that are railing against these changes are the ones that decide what and how much effort we want or need to expend in support. Many small businesses do not bother to train their staff. It is much simpler to wait for something that they will not have to trouble with.
@MikeInParadise - That's interesting feedback, and I'm sorry things aren't working as well as you'd like. This is definitely a case where hardware certified for Windows pre-Windows 8 will present a different experience than you'll get with Windows 8-certified hardware when Windows 8 is officially released. You should leave feedback at the Windows 8 Consumer Preview forum (go.microsoft.com/.../p) so that your feedback gets good visibility here at Microsoft, and it could be that others with similar experiences have some good ideas. I'll also contact the folks who made the touch features here to share your feedback and see if there's some wisdom floating around Redmond. Of course, I won't be able to comment on future plans, changes, features, etc., but if there's a good workaround, I might be able to share that. In the mean time, the forum is a good bet. Thanks for the comment!
If there is this much education needed for more techy users, how are the rest of consumers going to fare? You guys need to do quite a bit of thinking on that...
Get ready for the new Apple commercials. "If you have to learn a new operation system, why not learn one that's virus free..."
Thanks for Pointing me to that forum: Other having the same problem with this and other screens
There is one important thing missing: the autostart folder where I can put my chat programs and everything else that should be starting when booting up!
Metro isn't just a bunch of colorful rectangles, it's an entirely new OS--WinRT, which is pretty much old fashioned COM and callbacks. As a long time software engineer, it makes me downright nostalgic.
Metro apps aren't desktops apps. WinRT is designed to run applications written for ARM devices, which in turn are built to run "life-style" applications. The applications I use on my workstation, whether for work or relaxation, are desktop applications (many are Microsoft products). They will never ever be ported to Metro, will never ever run in WinRT, will never ever look rectangular and green. WinRT wasn't designed to run them. Likewise, my workstation wasn't designed to run WinRT. I have multiple disks, 3 hi-res monitors, I/O devices, CPUs, lots of memory and an operating system designed to run them all. Every time I open Metro, WinRT effectively lobotomizes my platform: one screen, no visible disks, limited I/O, limited memory resources, one app at a time and a sandbox with high walls. I'll never download a Metro app to my desktop machine because the platform isn't designed for WinRT. An ARM-based tablet with GPS, accelerometers, gyroscopes, Bluetooth, cameras, touch screen and near-field is. That's were I'll download a Metro app and be happy to use the Metro Start screen.
So why is Metro/WinRT running on my Windows 8 workstation? I can open Process Explorer and see it running as a process in the W8 Operating System. It's just a background process that's always running, but I'll never use it to run a Metro app, so why force me to use the Metro shell when I'm sitting at my desk? Which is why it irritates the hell out of me on my workstation--it's stupid. An extra user shell on top of an existing user shell? An extra OS that provides no value on a workstation? Did anybody at Microsoft really think this through?
Metro/WinRT on a desktop just doesn't make sense. Please offer a Windows 8 Professional version without Metro/WinRT. You can even charge a premium over the W8 version meant for the hoi polloi--I'd gladly pay it.
I wish that they wouldn't move the start menu. I am so used to it in the bottom right hand corner. Great for tablets, not so great for tradational mouse and keyboard.
What have they to lose by re-adding the flattened, shrinked start menu back where it belongs?
I am a Windows Phone user so this is not my first foray into Metro. I realize this is Beta but the OS doesn't feel intuitive in so many ways.
I agree with Albert's assertion. If it is this difficult for the techies, how much trouble are regular users (kids and g'ma are great examples I've seen used -- although kids are probably more curious and would better navigate that a lot of adults because of that trait).
I think if the developers were to bring Windows 8 home (on a non-touch laptop) to their parents / grandparents they would be alarmed at how non-intuitive Windows 8 is. Keyboard shortcuts were fine in Word Perfect, not so much anymore. They are not intuitive to normal end users. In the Word Perfect days, people had a cheat sheet that they could fasten to the top of their keyboard. Seriously, in today's world I don't see that happening.
I agree with other comments about the OS feeling disjointed. I especially notice this on my dual monitor setup. It feels like I am running a different OS on each monitor with the start screen up or other metro apps running.
Here are some specific areas I would like to see improved:
1) charms should be obvious to the end user not have to be "discovered" by putting your mouse in a certain position. There should be some visual indicator that they exist.
2) There should be some status bar like in WP7 with the clock etc. that is visible at all times. I miss my clock.
3) Charms should be available on a secondary monitor. Right now I find it annoying that as I try to navigate to the charms on the right-hand side that inevitably my mouse skips to my second monitor. It's just too touchy.
4) The second monitor running the expanded (now second-class citizen) desktop while I'm in metro on the primary feels weird.
5) Two versions of IE on the Desktop. I know this Beta (maybe even pre-Beta) but that is just plain Dumb.
6) I should be able to drag a screen (in a Metro application) without clicking on the scrollbar just like I can swipe with wp7 and I'm guessing an ARM tablet. For starters, the srollbar looks ugly...like Windows 3.1 ugly. Having to click on the scrollbar to navigate and then move the mouse to the action area is a lot of wasted movement.
7) I have multiple "Live" ID's that I use. I don't like one being tied into the OS and no easy way to switch to others when I'm logged into IE, etc. As an option great, but it feels too much like a requirement.
8) Simple tasks such as rebooting or logging off are harder to find and take longer to do (no I don't think I should have to pin shutdown to my start screen).
Some feedback on your Windows 8 CP.
i have been using Windows 8 now for week or two. and i can say im extremely disappointed. it take me longer to find all my applications and do the tasks i needed to do. ware as with XP and vista i could do those same tasks with ease.
i think you guys are insane for removing the start menu . i think you should have the metro screen on the desktop and do away with the wallpapers ,desktop icons and gadgets. and have the taskbar and start menu in front of the metro screen .
metro apps should apper on the taskbar because their is no close button also switching between Desktop and Metro becomes unbelievably annoying after a while.
This is Windows re-imagined ... not Windows remembered, this movement started with the Build conference back in September, where they introduce the Windows 8 dev-preview.
If you can look back or even remember the drastic changes from Windows 3.1 to Windows Build 95, there where massive changes to the OS that makes Windows what it is today.
As I read the suggestions, and tutorials posted for navigating the new OS I would hope many first timers would take advantage of the info posted above the feedback.
What you have to remember is you still have a choice, and that’s what beautiful about Windows paired with the PC.
It’s still a personal computer, if you don’t like something on your PC just change it till it makes you happy; if you need help on how to – Just type your question(s) to www.bing.com.
I guarantee you a tech or someone like you has already developed a policy or registry change to bring back the old faithful features that you feel in love with.
All in all Windows still has a lot to offer, just take the time to enjoy the FREE preview, and if all else fails just message me back I’ll be glad to help.
- Stay Powered by Windows
It's either windows downgrade to windows 7 or mac,
If somebody decides to put steering wheel in the backseat, there is no need to talk about learning curve, it's useless.
We will see if Microsoft's strategy by pushing Metro everywhere and unifying user experience will pay off in Windows Mobile 8 market share, because this is what it is all about.
After iPhone, iPad, this will be the perfect reason for people to switch to Mac's.
Sorry Microsoft not this time.
where is the start menu and shut down menu.
It seems a Windows 7 in a different wrapper. I will wait until it is seasoned before using it. Worked with it for 3 days but had too many problems with both Operating System and computer. Don't see any advantage in moving to 8 until they get it easier to use. No start button is one of the major deficiencies.
I cannot use this mess. All these tips are worthless because of many fundamental problems. Screw this. All this is going to do is piss off the public.
One step forward 8 steps back. Windows 8 is a great kernel with a bad user interface that makes it useless on desktops (Windows Server 8 suffers from the same problems).
You guys have learned nothing from history, all these years you were trying to push a desktop operating system into the phones (Windows Mobile 6) until an alternative came along and took the market over.
Now you are pushing a tablet/phone oriented UI into the desktops, it will only end up in tears.
You have destroyed the desktop experience and you are ignoring the simple fact: A device should be adapting to the user needs based on functionality and purpose. Not the other way around which is what you are trying to push with Windows 8.
If I have to learn your long list of short cuts and pin things all over the place just so I can do things I used to for over 20 years with ease, I may as well move to a Unix variant. I liked all releases of Windows containing the NT kernel, even the “scatter randomly controls around” named Vista. But you must be joking expecting us to use this badly designed desktop. Microsoft you have lost the plot and you are heading for a monumental collision with your most loyal fans, those who promote you in the workplace and you end up getting the multimillion contracts.
You can keep your metro deranged UI to yourselves; I even hate my Windows Phone 7 now because of my dislike for the Windows 8. I know it is unfair for the poor device, but you managed to make hate Metro Anything.
The whole Windows 8 experience is terrible. As many others have said, Metro has no use on a desktop machine. I don't need Metro applications on my desktop with huge large fonts and lots of white space, they are unusable. But yet I have no choice but to keep finding myself thrown back to noddy toy-land.
Why no start button, why throw desktop users back to the Metro toy-land start page, why can't be choose to turn it completely off? I think Microsoft are forcing everyone the Metro route in order to brain wash us into buying "apps" so Microsoft get an extra revenue stream. I can't be believe developers at Microsoft actually use this full time on desktop PCs and like it!
Also the Metro UI just becomes a bill board of "brands", it looks tacky and I don't want to be advertised to in such a way.
I tried Windows 8 on a laptop with a smaller screen to give it a chance, to see if it worked better on smaller devices with smaller screen real estate. It was worse, launching Metro apps with their large white expenses actually hurt the eyes using a laptop in typical subdued room lighting, it is far too bright, and fonts and other UI elements are still too big. What is the point of having high resolution and high dpi displays when Microsoft force full screen "apps" and huge fonts on us?
Microsoft also have not considered the future with OLED displays, as they draw significantly more power displaying white and bright colours.
It's put me off anything Metro. I don't even want it on a tablet touch screen device now. The tiles are boring and horrible and I don't want a start screen covered in "brands" as I install "apps", or more likely as "apps" are forced on me.
Unless I can turn Metro off, I will never be upgrading to Windows 8. What a disaster. You tried to force the desktop UI experience onto mobile devices and failed, and now you are trying to do the reverse.
Good luck Microsoft, you are going to need it.
After some days of forcing me using only W8, I have to admit, that UI is not that bad. Certainly some tasks are faster/easier for me in Windows 7, while others are faster/easier in W8 CP. One thing regarding the new Start screen I don't understand is, why charms are auto hiding? Why do the charms autohide but taskmanager stays displayed until the users chooses what to do? Charms should not autohide in my opinion.
I tried windows 8 and it seems very nice and intuitive . The only problem was on reboot it completely hung up and I had to reformat and reinstall windows 7. You really need to trouble shoot it before it is released to us mere mortals. I spent an entire day rebuilding my new computer's software.
Now that I got Windows 8 to work with McAfee, I'm luving it. I installed it on my 3 Computers (AMD Dual-Core Laptop, AMD Quad-Core PC and Intel Quad-Core PC), working like a charm on all 3, installations were a breeze and love the redesign. My 8yr old, 11yr old and 16 yr old kids love Windows 8 already.
Great job!!! Yes, was weird getting used to not having a START button and an ALL Programs, but, have gotten used to it already, now that I figured out how to get around the OS.
Why were all the common items I use, like Start and Explorer hidden? I really dislike the Metro desktop. Metro may look good on a small screen like a phone but it leaves a lot of wasted space on my desktop. So far it looks like its only designed for people who want to use a Windows smartphone for everything. An OS should help me do what I want to do on my PC, not force me to do things their way. Windows 8 is the most limiting OS yet.
I'm not against change. I used the Vista preview and it wasn't this disappointing. I guess I'll be learning Linux while waiting for Windows 9.
Overall, I like Windows 8 CP.
However, I was really hoping to see some small improvements:
1. In IE10, it would be nice to have built-in mouse & finger gestures to control navigation.
2. In IE10, it would be nice to have drag-n-drop functionality built-in.
3. Search for Settings and Apps is OK, but not good enough to search for certain file(s).
I always find myself installing a free 3rd party app called Everything (www.voidtools.com), which helps me search the entire storage for any file I'm looking for and does so in an instant, especially after I assign it the keyboard short Win+ALT+F. It filters the results as I type, and it's by far the best search app I've ever used. It doesn't replace Win8's Search, but rather complements it. I would like to see something like that built-in as well, instead of resorting to a 3rd part app (even if it's free). Searching for files is a fundamental thing, and I fully expect a modern OS to have such a search facility built-in.
Here's my opinion, along with a simple test I made (similar to the one Chris Pirillo did):
Metro is pretty much useless on the desktop. Sure it's pretty, but I can't find any usefulness other than the notifications it makes (i.e., the Live Tiles). I can see it working on a touch interface, but on a point-and-click interface, it's hopeless.
The lack of both the Start MENU and Start BUTTON is a joke. You say that the Start Menu is only to launch applications, it's not true (at least for me). The Start Menu was a simple, 2-click do-everything: Launch applications, access personal folders and system info, get help, shut down the computer, search for files and so on.
Sure, you may say that "That's what the charms bar is for", but it isn't. I can do most of the things I could back on Win7 with the Start screen and the charms bar, but why have 2 different places (and a lot more clicks and things to remember) when I can have everything in one place? And what was wrong with the Start menu?
And even IF they worked, why are they hidden? If I didn't watch the BUILD live stream and read some blogs on Win8 features, or didn't mess around with it, I probably wouldn't know how to get around! And even after some weeks of using it, I can still feel that I am slower on most day-to-day tasks.
I had to spend almost 1 hour configuring keyboard short-cuts, jump lists and so on just to get it to work with me.
Most people would spend an hour, (tops) trying to find the start menu, and then give up and either buy a Mac or return to Windows 7 or even, XP.
Remember, the perfect interface adapts to you, and not vice versa. You are doing the vice-versa (because I had to change the way I work on Windows 8).
RESULTS of a simple test with my father:
-I put him in front of my laptop and told him to just log in to my session (using a password). He couldn't even get to the point where you have to type the password. He spent 5 minutes just to get there. FIVE minutes. That's 4:55 minutes more than he did with WinXP, because that's the time it takes for it to appear after the os finishes booting!
Anyway, he logged in and then I told him to just try to navigate around, install a program, and then, through the control panel, uninstall it.
-This time, he installed the app perfectly fine, but then, he ran into a problem. There was no start menu. No start menu, no control panel. And no control panel means no way to "uninstall programs". Oops. 2 strikes already and my father was already giving up. Now, third test:
-Open an application that is NOT on my task bar NOR on the start screen (he used the windows key to try to find the start menu). Again, he couldn't do it.
-To finish, he also couldn't shut my laptop down safely.
This must have been his worst hour ever for him that was computer-related.
Heck, I put him in front of Ubuntu Unity (which is also a bad interface in my opinion) and he got around almost instantly. Why? Everything was visible! He had a place to launch apps, a place to shut down, a place to configure the system, all in easy-to reach, no nonsense places.
Your idea to blend the tablet and desktop interfaces is not working. At least give desktop users the choice to turn metro off and give us back the good old, not broken start menu, and for the love of god, do not ship desktop mode on tablets. That would be the biggest mistake in history.
Apple, on the other hand, is making things properly (coming from someone who isn't an Apple fan): They have realized that it'd be a bad idea to change the already known to work ways to navigate around in the os. So, instead, they introduced iOS features on the Desktop. That works, because it still works the way it did for the past 10 years or so.
To finish: Top Gear stated that the Honda FCX Clarity, a Hydrogen fuel cell (electric) car would be the most important car for 100 years. Why?
Take the current electric market cars: The Chevy Volt and the Nissan Leaf: Why are their sales slowing down? Because people don't want them!
Even if they are economical and environmentally "friendly", they are too cumbersome on a day-to-day basis. People don't want to change the way they drive just because they bought a new car! It'd be great: You had a Ford Focus, which had a steering wheel and 3 pedals, and then bought another car which has levers for steering and 5 pedals (sarcasm).
Our lives circle around the petrol-powered car of today, because its philosophy of "drive as far as you want, refill in a couple of minutes, drive some more" is simple and it just works. If you introduce something that has a ridiculously low range, stops miles from anywhere and takes ages to get back to life again, we would be going backwards!
That is why Top Gear considers this car to be the most important one for 100 years. It runs on "green" fuel, it's economical and it doesn't have a completely different way to be used! "It's just like the car of today".
Windows 8 then, is like the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt. And what people want is a Honda FCX Clarity. You figure out the relationship between the two.
Nice one with the father test. I've been thinking about what a nightmare it would be to try to teach my folks what to do. The way the charms bar keeps getting in the way would have them yelling, much less logging in and out. Can you imaging having to push this out to all of our end users, especially ageing CEO's? And I thought Allchin screwed up.
So if we memorize all this shortcuts, Windows 8 experience is a smooth one. I will print the shortcuts to paper and distribute to all my family (mother, father, sister). I am sure they will be thrilled.
Thanks for this. It helps anchor my legecy Windows skills in Windows 8. But could you tell me whether Microsoft will continue to market at legecy windows interface (i.e., Windows 8:-)) version. It seems to me that it could be a big mistake to force everyone to "get" the new metro interface ... just to get to where they left off with Windows 7. Alternatively, some people will jump at the new touch interface/metro thing and not want to see Windows 7 desktop at all ... since they never really understood it or did more than browse and send email anyway...
P.S. Myself, I am excited about the hybrid 2 in 1 tablet/PC that WIndows 8 makes possible ... but I know professions who get annoyed each time a new version of Windows ships and fear this will blow them away (and not in a good way).
I loved the building windows 8 blog talking about heat maps, and moving the mouse as little as possible. The app bar seems to break this principle. If I right click (or press and hold) a tile, I want to see the context menu options right there. Not at the bottom of the screen. It really breaks the movement heat map concept.
WINDOWS 8 MUST INCLUDE WINDOWS 7 DESKTOP AS IS, WHERE IS.
This is the message I am reading. Modifiying the way legacy Windows is operated/works is a mistake.
Minimally, it should be usable in the same way Windows 7 is. You can't change the UI with very new release of windows. It might be hard to imagine during this rush of excitment over iPads and touch, but not everyone wants a touch interface. Indeed, the majority of professionals may not want it at all (except on their Windows Phone:-).
I thought Microsoft was taking the high road, doing the smart thing by integrating the tablet and the PC. I now am thinking Apple may be right. Keep them separate. Someone buying a tablet, expects a new way of interacting with the device. BUT, someone buying a PC wants a PC. They simply want to use the skills they already have (In no way do they want to first "deal" with the tablet interface and navigate through it to get to the desktop only to learn that everything has been changed. Now they must relearn how to use a basic PC.) This is bad, bad marketing and I, as others will send out a mass email telling people NOT to upgrade.
This may be big of me, but I suggest you need to market 3 versions: 1) tablet only (with Windows desktop safely hidden underneath), 2) Windows only which works like a traditionally windows destop PC (Windows 7) full stop. and 3) for a MINORITY of users a hybrid tablet/PC which combines 1) and 2) (but Windows perserves the Windows 7 interface).
Problem right now looks to be that Windows 8 assumes the MAJORITY have nothing better to do with their time then learn not only a new interface (Metro) but also relearn the Windows Desktop. If the latter were true, PC sales would have stopped, instead of continued to grow in 2011 despite iPad and tablet success. Give the people back their START button! (Learn from Coke experiement with "new" coke and bring back Classic Coke:-))
WE LOVE WINDOWS -- THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH SAID
After reading peoples comments about windows 8, I am sick and tired about people complaining that is crap , its this and this. You know that, if you know how to build a better OS , then go ahead then build it. Yes this is a BETA version and its only the FIRST release. If you dont want to use Windows and feel that Mac is the real alternative, then go ahead. If Apple were to redesign their mac OS similar to their iphone, then i guess you would be in the same position right ?
I have to say that its a great accomplishment from what they have done in comparison between the developers preview and the consumer preview.
I just dont get it, If I can do my work day in day out windows 8 , what is wrong with you guys not working your way around it. Consider this message as a support to Microsoft and I will always support Micrsoft.
You still don't get it, or probably you do but you're dead set on leaving it as it. It's simple windows 8 is unintuitive. And windowsteamblog.com/.../4667.Keyboard_2D00_shortcuts_2D00_for_2D00_Windows_2D00_8_5F00_5756566F.png is your solution.
So you're basically saying print this out and learn it on how to navigate Windows 8.
I can see the next Apple ads, snarky guy whips out a giant board with those instructions and starts making of the diagram.
What a joke.
When you land in desktop mode there is nothing to tell you there's a Charms bar on the right side. There's nothing to tell you there are hot corners. I've run W8CP as my main OS since it launched and I'm still getting lost in metro when trying to go back to the desktop. In metro apps like the store there is nothing to tell you what the hell you are supposed to do next to get out of the app, there is no X to close, there is nothing to indicate hot corners.
Now imagine people going to BestBuy and using this heaping mess vs seeing OSX. Right.
@ranjeetbassi, the problem is as follows:
Who are the people who did download Windows 8 Consumer Preview?
-Developers, tech-savvy people or just people curious enough to try it out, see what's new. The sort of people who can easily accept change and quickly adapt to the new environment. I am among this group, and I have accepted the changes. I can work without the start menu on Windows 8.
But, WE are a very small group of people.
The majority of people who didn't try out this new version of Windows are people who aren't curious (or tech-savvy) enough to search for their tools: they want to see them right there from the start, not search for them. They don't want change. People like (I stated before) my father. Or my neighbours, or my auntie. Or business people (although this is because the learning curve would take some time and time is money).
They just want their next computer to work the same way and respond to the same inputs as the computer they have now. And Windows 8 doesn't do that.
Sure, when you say that this is a beta, and that things CAN change, you are absolutely correct. But there's a problem: This blog post itself. It shows that Microsoft isn't thinking of changing it back. Or so I see it this way.
@redRoserade: I'm glad someone tried Windows 8 out on some non-technical folks (and posted the results). I would only say that if the change is more intuitive (over time) and takes less clicks, then by all means. Not everyone is going to be happy no matter what. I hope that we are not too far down the road to release to tweak this OS for desktops and laptops. Otherwise Windows 8 becomes Vista 2.0.
On tablets, I hope the metaphor plays out well. Just don't totally mess up my desktop experience in the name of unity.
Have been using W8 for a week now and have a few issues that maybe, just maybe, someone out there can assist me with. The first one is simple and no one can help me with this...the folks at Microsoft should have let the public UNINSTALL THE OS if the individual was not happy with it. The OS has disabled my laptop's ability to restore from a backup. Thanks, guys. Really. You got me.
The second issue-that I now have to try and fix since I am stuck with this cartoonish looking OS, is iTunes. It seems that W8 does not like iTunes- it keeps closing on me. If anybody has had the same problem, let me know. Otherwise, I am looking forward to an update or something. ANYTHNIG!
I am a loyal Microsoft user and have stayed away from Apple all together. I don't mind change, I just like things to be consistent and somewhat easy to use. This is my opinion.
I would like to see the charms bar (including the clock) moved to the bottom app bar and the history bar moved to the top like in the IE10 app. Basically I would think all of the charms would in the start screen app bar. Then the start button, settings, search and whatever other options that would be specific to the other apps in their bar. Then all opened apps would be at the top for easy selection.
This gets the user out of the corners and leaves the sides for scrolling. All apps should scroll from the sides like the start screen and all apps screen. This is not currently the case like in music, video and people. We could also scroll up and down from the top and bottom of the screen since the app bars are click activated. IE10 could scroll in the same manner getting rid of the left and right arrows.
Also these bars stay on the screen until an option is selected or you click on the screen. Making it much more user friendly, easier than chasing the side bars where if you don't keep your mouse just right they disappear. It also gives the user a familiar feeling because the app bar is similar to a hidden task bar.
Also I have read how Windows 8 is supposed to transition seamlessly through metro and desktop where you could stay in one or the other. I don't feel that is the case because when I open any program in metro I'm forced to desktop. My thought is why can't metro be the new desktop? Where everything would open in full screen as if you opened an app. Then when I close the program or app I am returned to the metro start/home/desktop screen. Call it what you will but it's all the same.
Overall I like the metro and app side and would like to see an upgrade to my wp7.5. I also like the new look and feel to the desktop side. That being said, I would like to see an all inclusive operating system but I'm afraid they are not made to be on the same machine. For instance would I have a desktop app on my cell? My cell does not have the same capabilities. And I can see the argument for the metro style start screen but may be the apps need to be left to the mobile devices and the programs left to the PC's. Some how making them sync, I think, would be the key. And SkyDrive is a good place to stay focused on for syncing.
Thanks for listening,
Hi , just some feedback on Windows 8 Dev and Cust previews.
The common theme among everyone I have spoken to is the jarring switch from Metro to Desktop, and I am afraid I share this view.
I tested Windows 8 on a number of devices, a Samsung 700t tablet , an Acer MultiTouch All in one PC and my own 8-core workstation.
First the tablet, loved it , perfect. Hits the spot, though the lack of indication that there's other menus or options at the edge of the screen is an obvious problem when you first encounter metro. Metro works really well on the smaller screens ( 1368x768 ), but the need to access the desktop for some things was something that I think needs to be addressed ( to many to list here )
Next the Acer All in one, the Acer has a multi-touch screen with a bezel around it , around 1/4 an inch, this basically stops the whole , swipe in from the side functionality from working given you can never , quite , hit the edge of the screen with your finger. Windows 8, offers no way to adjust how far into the screen these get triggered so currently these cannot be accessed. So its back to the mouse or keyboard. Very disappointing. Effectively this class of touch screen is not suitable for the current windows 8 design as it stands. Again, from a navigation perspective , the lack of clear indications that there was 'something at the edge' of the screen ( hot spots , etc ) , is clearly a problem for first time users , and was a royal pain for me as an experienced user. Lots of people have said it , introduce some kind of icon so that we can trigger the charms etc.
Desktop workstation, this was by far the most disappointing experience of all. While the new features of the Windows 8 desktop are much welcomed, the jarring start menu / full screen / charms experience utterly ruins using the machine on a day to day basis. I cannot for the life of me , understand why if I have a monitor , or monitors with 1920x1080 displays or higher , that I have to have a giant tiled full screen menu just to find things. Again the 'hot corners' thing does not work for me as a desktop user when a simple icon , or clearly marked area of the start bar can achieve the same thing.
In terms of suggestions, I guess mine all steam from the confused nature of Windows 8, and why Microsoft would abandon solid working mechanisms in favour of consumer device functionality. So here goes....
Start Screen, keep it , but augment with start menu on the desktop. Seriously , stop the flack your taking for it , give in please. please. No threats about 'i'll buy a mac , or Linux' or whatever, but you really are going to shoot yourselves in the foot on this one.
Present the charms menu in the task bar on the left showing all the time in desktop mode. I am all for commonality of user experience , but this whole area is broken for desktop users as it currently stands.
The rest are about integration :
Allow live titles to live on the desktop, just like the old activex desktop , current gadgets etc , Honestly, your missing or have chosen to ignore a trick here. Suddenly , the gap between metro and aero blurs with that one act allowing both application types to co-exist in the same space. App revenue will flow as users move to Apps and live tiles.
Allow metro apps to open in a window on the desktop. Again , seriously guys , WINDOWS <- this would blur the line , allowing metro apps to operate on the desktop / larger displays without having to cover everything we are doing. to run one application.
Finally, where an application opens ( full screen or desktop ) , could simply be handled by a new feature called 'emphasis', that allows the end user to chose Full Metro , or Metroized, Desktop/Workstation mode.
As I said at the start, love it on the tablet , hate it on the desktop.... and if I remember the headline correctly , here are over a billion of us desktop users at the moment .. do you really , really want to leave us all thinking , ' why did they do that ? '
I have read each and every point and found it very interesting
http://www.frivmini.com | http://www.friv4.info | http://www.kizimini.net | http://www.didi-games.info
I'm also disappointed by the fact that Windows Explorer doesn't offer a "Folder Size" column in Details view, even though this has been requested for years by many users.
I've surgically navigated in and out of desktop and metro modes on a dual monitor setup and still can find no logical real world use for Metro on a desktop or laptop. It's not that Windows 8's Metro UI should be abandoned altogether, but is should not be made to be the default on desktop PCs. The desktop UI could certainly benefit graphically from Metro-ish elements, but killing the start menu and demoting the desktop experience without great approval from most desktop users seems a bit Fascist. I know no one using a desktop that is testing Windows 8 that thinks Metro should even be on the desktop version of Windows 8. There are enough improvements behind the scenes and to the desktop experience to warrant a Windows 8, but the Metro UI should be designated only for tablets and Windows Phone. It does not lend itself to efficiency. Metro is cute, but quite counterproductive and takes the "power" out of "power user." At most, the Metro UI should be optional, like HTC Sense, Motoblur or TouchWiz on Android. Please leave the framework of desktop experience intact and accessible by default. Updating the taskbar and application windows and menus to a more Metro "feel" wouldn't hurt, though. Please share these thoughts with Mr. Sinofsky.
I think all the keyboard PC now should add another extra Windows logo key on the right side
So far I have found nothing in Win 8 to make me even think of leaving Win 7. I only have a desk top PC and my monitor is not touch able. The Metro desktop is OK I guess but as I usually have most of my program icons on the Task bar I probably would rarely use it. I also use Firefox and can't seem to get it to load in the Metro interface. The Mail program doesn't want to know email addresses other than Hotmail and Google. The Photo app is very cumbersome when trying to locate a particular photo. I much prefer Windows Gallery. It seems to me that Microsoft are trying to create two operating systems in one package here, one for tablets and one for desktops. I don't think this is going to work.
One thing I do like is the Task Manager, a big improvement.
So I hear that the latest super worm hit's a vulnerability that affects everything since XP, including the Windows 8 preview. Is there a law that MS has to have major security holes in everything they release? Is there anyone responsible for this? No way am I going out into the world using a Windows Phone, even if I pay the MS tax and load it up with security software. Seriously guys (and this is not coming from an Apple fan) get it together.
I would love to see the "Shutdown" menu added to the "Commands for power users" context menu. To me that seems to be the only thing missing there. Just below the "Run" would be great.
After using it for about a week now...
I am not an IT or Programmer. Just a home PC builder/Overclocker/Gamer etc. hobbiest. At first my impression was.. how am I going to get comfortable with the differences compared to the previous styles of Windows we have been so familure with? Like any new change, it is easy to just say change this change that. But taking the time to navigate around and use it, I am finding it to be very likeable.
I was told Windows 8 is for Touchpads and Laptops with touch screens and not good or designed for Desktops. I own a Windows Cellphone, use a desktop and am loving the introduced features like I have on my windows cellphone. The charms are easy to use.. they might take a small amount of effort to use. Like the power choices, but that is something to just get use to. The ability to get apps I find to be a nice addition. Weather, news, email, messaging and othe desktop featires are also nice for a quick glance or entrance. If I use Windows Explorer, I can ahve the look and feel we are use to and open a browser with most of the choices we have always had. I do use the browser there more than the other option, so far.
I am also finding it stable and it plays a few games I use very well, even with my wireless mouse and keyboard. Booting is fast and I am using HDD's not SDD's on the PC with windows 8. I am dual boot, both Windows XP and the Windows 8 beta. This is a new second build for me as an HTPC. I was thinking of buying another Windows 7 for it, and a friend suggested the dual OS and trying win8. So far I am disagreeing with the statement of 'not for desktops' and am planning on continuing to use win8, try to be helpful in the beta needs and most likely wait to but win8 for it.
A small participation report. No chnages asked for. I beilive we want to stay with standards we are familure with and hard to accept change. Again, like anything new to us, it takes time for it to become the new standard and I think you are well on the way to offering a great new approach to how we use and see out PC's.
@Panther57, for some of us (if not most) of us, it's not about change but intuitiveness and ease of use. With a larger screen (or multiple screens), it is not necessary or very usable to hide open applications not in the foreground. For me, Windows 8 simply takes more clicks to do common tasks such as shutting down the PC or logging out. As one person put it, logging in for a novice user is not intuitive at all. The charms require a bit too much precision for my liking and with multiple monitors right-hand side charm is a pain.
I am all for change for the better. I actually like the ribbon in Office 2007/ 2010+. After a bit of retraining one's brain you find that it takes less clicks to do common tasks. That is a usability improvement that pays off in the long run. I hope to see more of that intuitiveness put into future versions of Windows.
The consumer preview really shows some serious flaws. There needs to be a way to filter the apps so that you don't get a list of EVERY flipping app that is installed including windows apps that should be hidden. There should be an easier way to access control panel items. Cludgy for desktops.
Call me a fool, but I am willing to give beta versions a try out, call me a bigger fool I tried out Windows 8. It really has reached a stage where Microsoft clearly have no interest in their customers anymore. Zero assistance or tutorials to help you through this new alien landscape, no clues as to what's going on and no "get out of jail free" cards when you have finally had enough.
The best part was inserting the recovery discs to my laptop and sending it back to Vista and the three days of downloads to make it current.
I have the impression that Windows 8 will be far quicker in operation compared to all before it, but if you have zero idea what you are doing then it becomes a waste of time. Congratulations Microsoft, this is one customer who will not be paying for an upgrade for many a long year.
They always been arrogant but at least until now they did deliver something I loved and was actually passionate about.
There's a saying in India that goes "Vinash kaale viprit buddhi" - The dumbest ideas strike right as you are beginning to go down.
Microsoft has already lost the smartphone race and are about score a spectacular dud on the desktop as well.
Good thing is I guess with Gnome 3, Linux is moving in a fantastic direction.
Yeah I know you're reading this and laughing about it now, just remember a year later when Windows 8 receives near unanimous whacking and no amount of paying off Thurott or Zheng can save your ass.
: We told you so!
A former Windows evangelist
Personally I think that windows 8 is the best os ever it took a while to
To sort out how to get around and find all the things I was used to
Doing in window7 not completely everything yet, but its exciting finding
All the things you can do. Well done Microsoft
As a beta tester of every windows OS since the original NT, I must say my first impression of Metro is that it sucks. Windows Server 8 is great, but unless you make some major changes before RTM the public is going to hate Metro on the desktop.
Here's a concept from someone like myself who really loves the Metro aesthetic, but would prefer the classic desktop production environment: www.theverge.com/.../windows-desktop-ui-concept.
This way, Windows 8 will still take on the Metro feel on the desktop, but won't ruin the user experience in actually getting things done as jayjames mentioned so well above.
I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that Apple will use the Metro style start screen for yet another anti-Microsoft ad. You remember the "I'm a PC, I'm a Mac" ad about Vista and the security guy getting in on the PC guy every time he tries to respond to Mac. It was just so spot-on. I can't wait to see the first ad about Windows 8 where the PC guy briefly turns into a Harlequin every time he tries to perform an office task, and the Mac guy being all "Wait, wait, wait", and "what was that", and the PC guy starting to get dizzy after a few transformations and putting on the look of a sad clown trying to excuse himself.
Seriously, the next Windows version is too important to leave it to Microsoft to make the final decision about the Start button. Do you remember Office 2007 where some Microsoft usability advocate decided to get rid of the File menu? What was he thinking? Guess what, the File menu was back in Office 2010. Then as today, we had to endure the same "It is still there" nonsense. If there has ever been to chance to learn from past mistakes, this is it. I don't want to have to wait until Windows 9 to have my Start menu back. Please Microsoft, don't make Windows desktop users the laughing stock of the Mac community again. Don't make it so easy for Apple. I implore you.
Tschernobyl, Fukushima, Windows 8
...all Major accident [grade 7]
Why would a Windows user to relearn everything,
just because you now everything is changing,
I need a way to make this look and feel more like Windows 7 or XP cause I can't use this. If I use it for more than a few minutes I find that I'm about to fly off into a rage as it is so INSULTING to me. And so in return I'm insulting Bob 2 as much as possible as you might see in some of my posts. There is no way I'll use this till I can get my older interface back and not have my intelligence be insulted by Microsoft at every turn. And get rid of the "Charms" WTF really? Feminizing it isn't making me any happier about it. Hell I have been working with Linux and while it isn't the easiest OS to work with but it doesn't give me a Playskool computer with Bob 2.
I am sure having a hard time finding things. Like I sure would like to print that windows 8 shortcut PDF. but now with these big screens there are no menu functions like printing. I am using the desktop IE, because I just could not find any usable functions in the IE10. I sure hope that they can have a fairly easy to use a windows 7 mode. I hate METRO
Solution is an "interactive desktop" instead a full screen method… this for dekstop
I just tried to install Flash Player plug in in the metro version of IE10. It is impossible as far as I can make out. For the plug in to install the browser has to close and it reopens in the desktop version of IE. This seems to be a real bug.
I install windows 8 on my dell studio 1737 and I thank that you are doing a great job. The more I use it the more I love it.So keep up the good work.
I'm saving for a mac. Yes, I'll have to gimp my training for a while to afford it, and it will set me back heavily, but it's worth it over using this Desktop monstrosity. I'll just quit PC gaming. I only play one MMORPG anymore anyways, and it has a Native Mac port.
Sorry, this is unacceptable for desktop users, even if you use a Touch Screen AIO this is a freaking terrible user experience. You guys have lost your minds.
@Kevin - The metro version of Internet Explorer 10 doesn't support plugins, so it doesn't support flash. The desktop version does, however.
Windows 8 is really the best Microsoft product yet - and I'm just using it with a keyboard and mouse! I look forward to the RC!
Thanks for the tips, I've had windows 8 for just 24 hours and am getting into it better than I thought I would at first. I do really like the interface after learning a little more on it's use and feel quite at home with it now. I realise this isn't the final product but it hasn't found my Blu-Ray DVD recorder so I can't install any new programmes I wanted to try on it. Because I use this PC for business I think I'll have to reluctantly revert back to windows 7 Pro but I am unsure just how to do that as I do not have the original disc (came fully loaded on my new PC). Does anyone know if there's a simple way to revert back ? I thought I saw somewhere in the screens where it mentioned something about restoring to Windows 7 ? If I could get the DVD working I might like to keep it awhile longer what happens after the trials have ended, do we just get a message to say we have to stop using the Windows 8 experience and then have to go back to our old Windows ?
Using a Hotmail account in the "Mail" app doesnt work when your email address isn't "firstname.lastname@example.org". For example, I signed up to use Hotmail using my GMail address via signup.live.com/signup.aspx
This allows you to use a non Hotmail address as a Live account. I've then been using the Hotmail account to import my Gmail and manage my email that way. However, the Windows 8 Mail app will not allow me to use "@gmail.com" when I try to add a Hotmail account, it seems like it has to be @hotmail.com (or @live.com).
Trying to add the account via Exchange doesn't seem to work either. It just says something like, not valid email or something along those lines.
This is a pain. My windows phone works fine with using the same @gmail.com account via Hotmail.
@holysheyat: No it's just that using existing live/hotmail addresses seems to be comprehensively broken. It wouldn't accept my @hotmail.com address and forced me to create a new @hotmail.fr address. This totally wrecked using all the long-ins for my pre-existing address.
There are some long threads on the forums about this: answers.microsoft.com/.../windows_8
I eventually gave up and reinstalled Windows 7.