Where did my saved email address and password go?

Where did my saved email address and password go?

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Last week, some of you may have noticed that the sign-in page for products that use Windows Live ID (like Hotmail) changed. Instead of multiple user tiles and two check boxes per account (one for “Remember me” and one for “Remember my password”), now there is a streamlined page focused on one account and one check box to “Keep me signed in”.

Some of you have posted questions on this blog or in our forums and I wanted to share the thinking behind the change.

Why did we make this change?

The previous sign-in experience was optimized for managing multiple accounts on a single PC. A tile was saved per account, and there was a “Remember me” and “Remember my password” check box. The “Remember me” box kept the tile around, and if you checked both boxes, this allowed you to sign in by clicking on the tile instead of retyping your password each time. This was convenient for shared PCs and for people who juggled lots of accounts.

At the same time, there were problems with the old design.

  • Customer confusion: We got consistent reports from customers who were confused by the design. Not understanding which checkbox did what and as a result accidentally leaving account tiles at an internet cafe or a friend’s house were common complaints. Depending on your settings, sometimes you were signed in but still had to click the tile, sign-out didn’t always work as expected, sometimes you had to enter a password and sometimes not – it seemed random and confusing. To make matters worse, tiles only worked on Internet Explorer; other browsers always had the simpler experience.
  • Changing trends in device ownership: As more people bought laptops and smartphones (which tend to be used by just one person), we heard more feedback that the tiles just got in the way, and what people really wanted to do was to just get to the service without interruption. We knew from our telemetry that fewer than 2% of users were using the tiles, but 100% of our users were interrupted by them in the old design.
  • Consolidation on a primary account: Increasingly, customers are consolidating their Windows Live usage into one primary account. It used to be common for one person to have multiple accounts. As we’ve integrated Windows Live ID across other products like Xbox, Windows Phone, SkyDrive, and Office –the core account has become more valuable, and it’s become less necessary to switch between accounts.

We’ve also steadily added many features to Hotmail to solve scenarios that previously required juggling multiple accounts. Most notably:

  • You can add other email accounts to your Hotmail inbox – even accounts from other email services – as long as they support POP aggregation (most do).
  • You can create additional “aliases” connected to your account, which allow you to have unique email addresses that all route to one inbox (for example, if you are visiting sites that send you annoying newsletters). This is a better solution than having separate Windows Live IDs for this.

With all these changes, we felt that it was time to give the sign-in experience a facelift.

We streamlined the sign-in page to prioritize one account per device, and simplified the two check boxes into one “keep me signed in” check box. Once you check “Keep me signed in” we’ll keep you signed in with your Windows Live ID until you explicitly sign out. This also has the nice benefit of giving you a much faster page load time, so that getting to your inbox or whatever service you are using is now much faster.

You can see the old sign-in experience next to the new experience below.

Old and new sign-in

Getting set up

We’ve heard a few questions from people who were used to the old design and not sure how best to set things up in the new design. Here’s a quick breakdown of different scenarios and the best options for each.

I don’t remember my password. The most common question we’ve heard is from people who had passwords saved in the tiles and don’t remember their passwords. If you forgot your password, simply reset it here.

I don’t want to type my Windows Live ID and password each time. Check “Keep me signed in” the next time you sign in. We will keep you signed in until you explicitly click “sign out.”

I personally have multiple accounts that I want to manage. There are lots of reasons why you might have multiple email accounts. Here are a couple of the most common scenarios, with suggested solutions:

  • You have multiple email accounts used for different purposes (for example, personal vs. business). The best solution here is to add other email accounts to your primary Windows Live ID account. This works for Hotmail accounts and for other email accounts too. And you get all the benefits of simple, fast sign-in.
  • You don’t want to use your primary account at websites that send newsletters and other potentially annoying mail. To solve this problem, a few months ago we launched the ability to quickly add and remove “aliases” on your account, so you can quickly add and remove multiple email addresses, all associated with your primary account.

Someone else from my family wants to sign in on a shared PC. If this happens only occasionally, just sign out and sign in with a different Windows Live ID.

If switching between Windows Live accounts a common activity, consider creating a separate Windows user account for each person who uses the computer. Once you’ve set this up, it’s easy to switch between Windows user accounts–all your login info will be saved and you’ll automatically be signed in (if you choose) when you browse the web. This is also handy for Facebook and many other websites, which also save info for one user at a time.

Final thoughts

A few of you have also posted that we should have proactively blogged about this change. That’s good feedback, and we’ll work harder to be transparent about our work in the future. Hopefully the info in this post will help steer you in the right direction to troubleshoot problems and set up your account to work the way you want it to.

Keep the feedback coming.

Thanks,

Eric Doerr
Group Program Manager – Windows Live ID

269 Comments
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  • Bliss
    2 Posts

    I think the new change is better than the old change (with no emailaddress remembering). But I still miss the old tiles, like when you click and hold Windowskey+L in Windows 7 you got the the Windows login page on your computer. The tiles shaped squarish and shiny like that.... I miss thone on the hotmail login. Also you could add your favourite picture and color on it to make it personal... I miss that soo much!!

  • I posted the new update describing the new change. Thanks for all the feedback on this thread, I do want to let you all know that I'll focus my energy reviewing comments there and won't be actively following this comment thread any longer. See windowsteamblog.com/.../an-update-on-the-changes-to-the-hotmail-sign-in-page.aspx.

  • Pearl
    0 Posts

    old sign in plz

  • Soy Yo
    1 Posts

    I hope the changes  microsoft is working on  will include the '' REMEMBER MY EMAIL ADDRESS''

  • @deanlives thank you for your insight.

  • This is my first comment, I followed this for the last week. The comments here have been healthy, I don't see the need for calling on people to chill out. Microsoft is who should be thankful, which they probably are, that customers take an interest by explaining what they like and dislike. It's their opportunity to learn about customer needs. Without a place to post them, frustrated customers would probably give up. That would be a loss for microsoft...I would not have know which commentators your talking about had you not pointed it out. That wasn't really necessary, and I only saw who they are because of your and one other commentator who agreed with you got into it with them. Because of that, it probably feels obvious to you.....but wouldn't otherwise be obvious to everybody, as you said, who they were, truly because their comments mirror how most people here feel about the login issue. Conversely, I thought their comments were stellar, because the login change is so irritating and baffling. I don't necessarily get from your comments that you are that bothered by the login change, maybe that's why you seem to feel others are over reacting....when it isn't that at all, it's that these people, me one of them, are more affected and more upset by it. I hope people continue to say how they feel, including those feelings that are so-called negative. Just like if you decided to choose a different tv service or mobile carrier, there is nothing wrong with letting a company know their suite of web services is becoming wrong for their needs. It's noot good news but it is good for Microsoft to hear it. I suggest they do it with a little more frequency and not frustrate people into begging for news, but I am pleased to see that the developers are keeping people posted. It's a cautious relief to read that something is being done to solve the login problem. People are naturally anxious to see and learn what that is.

  • Thanks @Eric and @Dick for the updates and comments! Can't wait to see the changes!

    @Everyone Else, please don't take it so personal if the changes aren't what you're expecting. As mentioned, it's hard to please millions of users, and I'd say it's probably impossible to get it just right for every one of those users. We should be thankful that MS has provided us with this blog and allows us to comment and connect with the WinLive team.. and I for one don't want to see it go away because of all the negative comments and blame games being said. Suggesting new options or features and commenting about changes that should be made is a great way to show MS what the users want, but some of the comments that have been made were in poor choices of words and those can end up ruining this for everyone.

    Sorry to be such a woman on this post and I hope my point was made clearly and everyone understands it. I also want to say this wasn't directed towards just one commenter (as everyone will probably think).. if you go back and read all the posts, you'll see there are plenty of comments that I am talking about.

  • Knightsky
    17 Posts

    @Eric Doerr

    Thanks for the update...keeping us informed. It will be interesting to see what *new changes* for “some of the issues” have been addressed, this time around...

  • amktk
    8 Posts

    Eric. Thanks for the update. Will let you know what I think after the roll-out.

  • It's been a busy week and we've made great progress on the change to address some of the issues we've been talking about on this thread. At this point the change has been completely tested and we've completely deployed the backend (invisible part) of our system. Starting Monday we will begin rolling out the front ends. Front end rollouts go in stages and take up to a week (depending on a variety of factors), but you should be able to play with the new changes next week.

    We'll post the full details of the changes as a standalone blog post early next week, in sync with when people will see the change.

    Thanks for hanging in and being patient with us. This ended up taking longer than I hoped, and I know that for some of you this has been a frustrating experience. I really do regret the inconvenience and am hopeful that you will like the new change.

    Thanks,

    Eric

  • Knightsky
    17 Posts

    @Dick Craddock

    Thanks for contributing, it is appreciated.

    Even though the new changes don't effect me directly (repetitively type full Live ID credentials when required, it's not Hotmail only for me) as much as those who have multiple accounts but indirectly it does. I still do not understand why when a product is build for a wide variety users that it is not taken in to account (better than what I have read here) how any major changes will effect their user base first. People (users/customers) are not just numbers or percentages of a total....

    For now I'm waiting and watching to see if whatever changes that maybe, will address all complaints that have been expressed.  

    On a daily basis patience can be hard to come by....

  • Zwanzer
    26 Posts

    @ Dick Craddock

    Hi Dick

    Are you suddenly replacing Eric in this blog ? What happened to Eric ?

    And why are you starting to talk about the calendar ? while this blog is still about the sign-in issue and nothing else !

    Are you trying to deviate from the Sign-in issue ? If that is the case, than we consider you off-topic ! Let's stick to the sign-in issue please !

    Allow me to propose the following things to you and the rest of whomever at MS :

    - Give us the old sign-in feature back immediately and then

    - Take your time to come up with an even better solution, but don't try to invent the wheel or the hot water again

    - Tech people have to do the thinking, but marketing people have to decide together with the customers which of the tech possibilities has to be choosen - not the opposite way around !)

  • Amu
    1 Posts

    why don't understand how to give us an option (between old and new). dick craddock, what part of "optional" don't you understand? you say you have a lot to learn, you say you really appreciate feedback and that you are trying to build great services for all customers. well still you don't mention the simplest thing: the good old login page. instead you talk about one of your "new amazing services" like the calendar synch on android phones. oh yea.. you did this for the smartphones users and left is PC users behind... but you can solve it for everyone by making it optional for everyone? no?

  • BurJon
    3 Posts

    I just saw a recent post from a Windows Live staff member:

    "It is not possible to receive email from two different Windows Live accounts in the same inbox. "

    Is this true?  And if so, do you think that ability could be added?

    I don't think I've ever seen a web mail - or desktop email - application where you could not receive email from multiple accounts in one inbox.  This would be a serious limitation in Windows Live's usefulness.

  • @whenenrome – First, I’m sorry that you (and others) have had a poor experience. We don’t get everything right, but we really are trying to build great services for all of our customers. Sometimes we make decisions that turn out to be wrong. We learn, and we try to make things better. That’s what Eric and his team are doing right now on the sign-in page. It’s taking longer than we would have hoped, but they are not ignoring the issue. Balancing the needs of several hundred million users can be tricky sometimes, and I think that’s the main point that Eric makes in his post about balancing simplicity vs. functionality in the sign-in page.

    You make a lot of good points in your post, so we really do appreciate the feedback. I did want to address one thing you wrote about Calendar on your Android phone. Hotmail supports Exchange ActiveSync, so it should be possible for you to set up your Android phone to sync with Windows Live Calendar. Details can be found here: windowsteamblog.com/.../hotmail-now-supports-push-email-calendar-and-contacts-with-exchange-activesync.aspx

    Also, I wanted to say that my “Hotmail 15 year birthday post” certainly wasn’t intended as a goodbye! Not for me and not for Hotmail. I love Hotmail, and I’ve been working hard to make it better for seven years. I plan to be here for quite a while. I’ve still got a lot to learn, and we’ve still got plenty of ways to get better. I like what you wrote about “the service that grows with you.” I think that’s the right aspiration, and it’s what I want Hotmail to be. Thanks again for the feedback.

  • Pecha
    1 Posts

    Dislike. If it works don't fix it. Or make it optional. Not mandatory.

  • Lich
    1 Posts

    No this should be optional. Please change it back or make it optional (the CHOICE of using the old login or the new login).

  • Dear @Eric Dooer... please respond with some good news asap.. these comments could surely use it!

    Thanks,

    Jess

  • Zwanzer, believe me, I happen to be 100% with you on that. Speaking of keeping things on-topic... to anyone who hasn't read it yet, please check out the 9th post above this one... It's lengthy, but it really sums it up for me.

  • Zwanzer
    26 Posts

    @trulyindian and @whenenrome

    Can you please continue the personal chat between the 2 of you elsewhere ?

    It does not add to the purpose of this blog !

  • @whenenrome:  I had let that go long before your that post. My intention was neither to discredit you or distract people from your comments (who I am to do so, I dont work for MS, I just use their services as you do). I had no ill feelings about you. But then you posted something which I did not like and I Had to reply in a way which I myself consider to be rude. I had read your post three times before I posted mine (trust me, really). I dont know how could you say that i was putting hotmail.com address to the front of the line as a remedy being "survival for the fittest" and "sacrifice for others". I never said that it was an alternate (it was an addition, I dont know why could you not get it). I have said in one of my previous posts that " I have never & will not use 'remember me' option, but I still support it." Then you should not have said that "people are pushing hotmail address to the front." If you wont be benefitted by it does not mean that others should also not be. It was purely a feature request and has wrongly been perceived by you (to treat as an alternative). Please bear in mind that no feature is useful for everybody (as this was not for you) but we should not be commenting on it like that you have said.

  • Zwanzer
    26 Posts

    @langware

    @whenenrome

    I fully agree with your statements.

    They explain exactly why I have been drifting away from Microsoft during the last couple of years.

    I have been a fervent Microsoft "lover" since Windows 1, and I am slowly but surely becoming completely uninterrested in what they provide us with nowadays.

    I do not trust them anymore because they bring lovely features which they discontinue once they became indispensable in our workflow (I have many examples of these kind of dicontinued features in Office, Windows, IE and Live).

  • @Langware - Thank you for the comments... I'm glad you understand what I mean about the "disconnect" between MS and its users. I checked out the link you posted... I use my email reading pane differently, so I was never affected by those bugs. But it's surprising to find out that they're happening, and have been for so long.

    You're better informed than I (and obviously far more technically skilled) about how things are running - and how they *should* run - in terms of the services, upgrades and their implementations. Everything you've posted has been helpful for me, as I'm sure it has for a lot of people here.

  • @TrulyIndian - Please hold the OMGs, as you're overreacting. You totally focused on one part (a relatively small part) of my previous post , as if it were my entire point. It was just an example I used, of a situation I was complicit in. Anyone can tell from my comments that I wasn't debating the discussion you're referring to (trust me, I've moved on from that) - but pointing out a byproduct of the events.

    By the way, I was not "first on this blog to talk about altruism." If you scroll up, you will find that my initial post was on July 18th, which was a detailed commentary about the overall problems we're discussing here: the loss on the log-in, and the way it was mishandled - and had nothing to do with what you're talking about.

    I'm not sure if your intent was to discredit me, debate something old (that for me is now a moot point), or try to distract others from the point of my coments. I obviously somehow rubbed you the wrong way before, and I'm sorry about that. So can we now let that go, please?

    What I said in my most recent post is just me honestly speaking my mind, and happens to be pretty consistent with what several dozens of others have already posted here... and their thoughts reflect countless other users who aren't aware of this opportunity to express. I hope the conversation can put this distraction aside and resume that direction.

  • amktk
    8 Posts

    @Eric ... A week since your last post. Surely we are due an update!

  • .......The situation has becomes so negative......and here is exactly where we've ended up.......

    OMG, I cant believe this is the same guy who was first on this blogpost to tlak about altruism. I completely DISAGREE.

    Even though he has not named but everybody can see whom he is referring to in :""survival of the fittest" perspective right here:"

    I dont know how many times I have written this " that default domain name was just another feature request". He seems to have wrong perception of everything and does not want to understand what others are saying and then talks about altruism. He seems to have a preconcieved notion and does not want to see beyond that. NOBODY has suggested to "accept a sacrifice for the rest of us."  but dont know how he got that point. May be he is too impatient.

    I also comment on others post and others also do on mine but has never seen anybody with such wrong perception about others opinion.

  • langware
    154 Posts

    @whenenrome:

    Good post .... I think your comments reflect how many of us customers feel. And yes, our frustrations were certainly evident in the recent discussion on a default domain name for sign-on.

    Microsoft certainly can do a much better job at partnering with us customers, but that means agreeing to accept our feedback and taking action on it. A little over a year ago,I was asked to participate in early release testing of Hotmail Wave 4. I provided feedback and identified many bugs and areas for improvement. A small number of my suggestions were eventually acted on, but the large majority of my feedback (including the identification of blatant bugs in Hotmail's user interface) have still (after more than a year) not been fixed. This lack of followup does not provide incentive to participate in future Early Release Testing (but perhaps that is the desired effect).

    If you'd like more information on the bugs I reported, see this blog:

    windowsteamblog.com/.../new-app-like-outlook-features-added-to-hotmail.aspx

    ...scroll down through the comments and look mine dated June 26, 2011 ... it lists some of the bugs I reported as far back as June 2010 (note that item #5 in my comment has since been fixed).

    @Eric Doerr:

    Will you be providing another end-of-the-week update for us on Friday? Did the full deployment of the new solution start with last Monday's maintenance schedule? I have not seen posts from anyone who claims to have seen the new solution implemented when they sign-on.

    Two requests:

    1. Please provide documentation on the new solution (such as a link on the sign-on page that takes one to a page that describes the new solution,what it does, how to use it, etc, etc). This need not (and should not) wait until full deployment has begun/completed. The documentation should be made available well before the first server is updated.

    2. It's been a month since this problem began. If full deployment will not be completed by the end of next week, please consider restoring the old features while you continue developing/testing/deploying the new solution. Doing so will take pressure off your team, and allow you to fully test the new solution while customers are again able to access features they've missed for the past month.

  • Note - warning! Lengthy post - sorry in advance!  :-)

    This morning, I created, modified settings, and linked (where appropriate) new Gmail accounts for my partner and I, to start migrating from our hotmail / msn suffix ones... We each have an email address for personal, and for business / bills / etc. - so a total of four. With no answers to our questions about describing the "fixes" we can expect (or if the new "linking" promo mentioned in my previous post was precisely what Eric was talking about - which wouldn't be sufficient), we kind of felt it's time to prepare a move over.

    We brough Droid phones, as well, earlier this year... and already had one gmail address each to support those (though we had never used those emails). And we were disappointed to find that MS has done little to nothing in terms of creating applications for use on the Droid platform. There's no Windows Live Calendar app, nor does it sync with the resident calendar on Droid phones. The reason why I'm getting into this is that it just seems like MS wants to keep you on their platform, or they just don't plain want you... and the truth is, in terms of mobile, Windows phone isn't exactly gaining popularity.

    I started as a kid with an AOL address, like a lot of people did, in the mid-late 1990s. When I got DSL through Verizon in 2003, I acquired the MSN addresses through what was then "MSN Premium" internet suite. Within a few of years, of course, I just accessed it all through Windows Live Hotmail via IE.  I liked that it kept convenient features, I liked that I could setup my own homepage... It evolved with our needs, and that worked. But throughout that time, there actually were changes - including removal of some features - that did make things less appealing. One of the distinctions Windows Live / Hotmail had was the sign-in. It was personalized, and it worked for us. That distinction was removed, and nobody knows how (or even if) it's being reconceived.

    But I go back to the fact that these changes even happened in the first place. Some of what I read still makes no sense at all. The idea that an overwhelming amount of people were "confused" by it? Where is that outcry? I've never seen it, and to this moment, can't find it. But somehow MS's telemetery conveyed this to them. Sorry, I just can't wrap my mind around that. I'm a little more inclined to think, as others have stated here, that we have a company who just isn't on the right track when it comes to its users... too much thinking in a bubble that has floated too far away from its customers. When I take what happened here, and also look at MS's lack of interest in compatibility with other platforms (as I mentioned for the Droid / mobile phone situation), it only supports that feeling of "you will like what we offer."  It's as if that when we don't like it, we sort of don't belong.

    The situation has becomes so negative, that it even drove some users to a "survival of the fittest" perspective right here: You had people effectively wanting to push hotmail.com addresses to the the front of the line, and accept any improvements you had to offer for THEM... even if it meant that the rest wouldn't get the same benefit. I mean, that's a pretty good sign that you're starving your users for solutions when they're suggesting to others to "accept a sacrifice for the rest of us."  It's actually kind of funny, when you think about it: the level of hoopla that an email sign-on issue has caused. Yet it's precisely what you guys set in motion, and here is exactly where we've ended up.

    I suppose I want a web-mail platform that's going to grow WITH me and not AWAY from me in terms of features and conveniences. No, gmail, doesn't have a "remember me" sign-in tile feature, either. But it has several other interesting features, and is compatible with mine and a gazillion other people's mobile devices - and regarding log-in, I don't have to type in any suffix to my email user name at all, and I can link my accounts there... still easier than what I have to do with hotmail. Maybe a different webmail client is what's good for us, and this is the little push we needed to leave our comfort zone.

    My apologies for this being so lengthy. I just wanted the developers to fully understand the importance of the decisions they make for their users. And I understand the complexities of that responsbility - that if you try to please everyone, you probably won't please anyone. But I feel like what I've said here is likely reflective, in part or in whole, of what's on the minds of users negatively affected by the entire process of these changes - certainly of the many users who posted here. Thank you for taking the time to read.

    It's funny... one of the previous blog posts I saw a couple of weeks ago, by Craddock, read "MS Thanks you for a great 15 years..."  and I thought to myself, "gee, that sounds a lot like a goodbye!" Ironically, that's what it appears to be.

  • I am feeling annoyed again.  I very much appreciate Eric's comments, however using Hotmail is really a pain since the change and a fix is too long coming.  Just give us a choice on the login page to use the old interface.  It's not that hard. Give us a link to the old login page, set a cookie to make it the default and be done with it.  And fix linked IDs while you're at it!

  • @trulyindian oh I totally agree with you and I don't think that is the case with MS.. I think you guys nailed it on the head.. I was only making a joke!

  • @langware : your skepticism is right, I think. You have rightly pointed out many times through comments (in this as well as posts) about incompetency of WLSC moderators. As far as implemantation of suggestion are concerned, I would say Microsoft lacks innovation. They generally follow others. I recently read in a blog that Gmail has added a new feature to view content of zip files and then download required files out of that zip. Now that is called innovation. I dont know why MS lacks in innovating such things. They were behind in online viewing of Docs (i.e. after Gmail). After so many years, they showed one innovation i.e. sweep feature etc. Also, we can view in inbox many files in Gmail ( approx 15 types incl PDF) but hotmail is still limited to office web apps and some images format. They focus on speed and only speed. Yeah, that is right but it should not be so at the ignorance of other innovations.Their updation cycle is very slow unlike constant innovations by Gmail. Google's services are becoming popular because of constant innovation and updation. No doubt, their services like Gmail, G Apps,G docs are increasing mkt share at lightning speed. I like one thing in hotmail and i.e. its simplicity and ease of use.

    @sweetjessica : If that is the case then they are harming both IE as well as hotmail. It is good that they want us to use IE but it does not mean that they should ignore other browsers. Nobody would ever like to swtich to IE just because hotmail works in it.

  • @langware perhaps they are not bugs.. perhaps MS wants you to use IE!

  • brilaf
    13 Posts

    Love the feedback. I really can't wait for a solution from Eric.

    @Eric, thanks for listening.

  • langware
    154 Posts

    Interesting discussion about implementation of a default domain on the Sign-on Page. Except for one comment, I've refrained from adding to the discussion. I would like to see Microsoft solve this problem, and I think they could do so (if enough resources were applied to the problem).

    Again, I'd love to see this problem solved, but I'm skeptical that Microsoft will do so. Remember, it's been almost a month since the "remember me" and manage multiple accounts features were removed ... and we are still waiting for these useful features (which previously existed) to be restored.

    Customers have posted many suggestions for Hotmail improvement in the Windows Live Solution Center. Some have been implemented, many others have not ... some of the simplest suggestions have been ignored ... such as the request for an option to enable/disable and set the time-out interval for the Save Draft feature. With two lines of script, I have been able to set the timeout interval ... yet after almost two years, Microsoft has not put such an option into Hotmail.

    In addition, there are many known bugs in Hotmail, that Microsoft has been aware of (in some cases for years) and although many customers have posted requests in the Windows Live Solution Center asking for these bugs to be fixed, many (not all) of the reported bugs remain unsolved.

    Here is one recent example ... if you are using any browser other than IE, right click the empty checkbox to the left of any message in your inbox. In the past, a context menu would open with choices such as: Rely, Reply All, Forward, Mark as read/unread, Delete, Junk, Move, View Message Source. Now, with other browsers besides IE, no such context menu opens. With browsers other than IE, hovering ones mouse pointer over the "from" entry in ones inbox no longer results in a menu opening with information about the hovered-over sender. With browsers other than IE, dragging and dropping a message from ones inbox to another folder no longer works. My guess is that these problems are all associated with the same reported, but unresolved bug.

    Sorry for the long post. My point is this .... there are many known bugs in Hotmail that still exist; customers have reported them and are waiting for fixes. There are valuable features that have been removed and (after a month) we are still waiting for these features to be restored. It would be nice if Microsoft would implement a "default domain" feature, but based on past history .... such a new feature might be a long time coming from Microsoft (would love to be proven wrong here).

    I am not suggesting we stop asking ... by all means we should continue to provide our feedback and ask for new and useful features. But (given Microsoft's track record), you'll have to excuse my skepticism about seeing fixes and new features in a timely manner. Microsoft needs to become more in-touch with their Windows Live customers .... and isolating our feedback behind the moderators at the Windows Live Solution Center is (IMHO) a step in the wrong direction. To Eric's credit, keeping this thread open for comments, and (hopefully in the very near future) his team's response to our feedback, has been a breath of fresh air.

  • @sweetjessica : you are welcome dear! I thought you had a valid point and thats why I supported you. Hope they work on it soon!!

  • @whenenrome : As per my opinion the idea did not seem to be presented as a solution to " remember me" option problem as you had perceived. Had that been the case @langware would not have added another idea to that thought and I also had written that I had given this feedback before this post made by @sweetjessica and mind you I had no intention to get the " remember me" option removed at the time of that feedback (nor I support it even now). This option was suggested in addition to this " remember me" option. And as far as my disclaimer was concerned, it was a just a way to convey that dont take it personally.

    I am presenting you a situation to explain idea behind that thought -----> Suppose " remember me" is there and you have three IDs with @hotmail.com domain. Now when you use your PC you have all those IDs saved in that because of " remember me" option. It is good till now. But would you ever use any other PC at any other place. What in that situation. You will have to type the whole IDs again. Also Eric has suggested that they by their telemetry know that only 2% customers use " remember me" option. Now I say, take this figure as 10% (just for eg.). Remaining customers = 90%. Now again assume the customers with special domains (please refer my previous posts for this term "special domain") 30% which would be so at the most. Customers left with hotmail domain who do not use " remember me" option =60%. Dont you think these 60% people should be benefitted by adding "auto assume" feature? This suggestion was based on this idea and not proposed as solution to " remember me" option. Hope there is no confusion now!!

  • @whenenrome thank you for clearifying your post.. but it did feel like it was pointed towards me and not my suggestion. At the end of my previous post, I was just trying to be funny while returning the "bashing," and I apologize for that. I do appreciate the fact that you can and are disagreeing and I do think you have that right to do so, but there may not be a perfect solution to these issues that will work for everyone.

    @trulyindian thank you for defending my honor!.. my hero!.. that does indeed sum up my thoughts on the auto assume @hotmail.com issue.

  • @trulyindian - The idea seemed to be presented as a solution to the problems (specifically the "remember me" option) being discussed throughout the posts on this page. If that is the proposed solution, I say it's not enough - and I think it's absolutely okay for me (and anyone) to express that.

    It's interesting that you take my view as being one that lacks altruism. That's exactly how I perceived the idea that anyone without a hotmail.com address would be left twisting in the wind on any change... something that a company should never (and I doubt ever would) do to its customers.

    Reagarding your disclaimer at the end, thank you but it wasn't necessary. I in turn ask you, please don't assume people are offended just because they may openly disagree with you. Conversations would be pointless and, more importantly, most decisions would be wrong if there weren't disagreements discussed and navigated along the way.

  • @ whenenrome (in response to post on july 25) : If you will not be benefitted by an idea or feature does not mean that you should oppose that idea or necessarily disagree with it. We have to see benefit of majority and not for only ourselves. I have never used "remember me" in my life (even when I have five hotmail IDs) nor I am going to use it in future still I am openly supporting the addition of "remember me " option on this forum. If I have not used that does not mean others sould not also use that.

    It is not my intention to oppose or offend you so DONT TAKE THIS COMMENT AS OFFENSIVE.

    Thanks

  • Addition to above post : I request WINDOWS LIVE TEAM to add this feature in addition to "remember me " option.

  • @ really annoyed (in response to post on july 23) :

    ....Although it is......resolved to be @hotmail.co.nz.]---> You are also missing one point here. I am giving eg. yahoo also has country specific domains like .com, .co.uk., .co.in etc. now if you try to login into yahoo without typing any of these country specific domains then u would still be able to sign in without any problem. Again, yahoo has some special domains like ymail.com, rocketmail.com etc. (similar to msn.com or live.com in case of hotmail). Now if you have ID containing these special domains, you would be required to type full ID (including @ymail.com domain).

    Now here is the point I (and hope so sweetjessica also) was trying to make, when yahoo can log you in without typing country specific domain then why cant MS do so. If you have @msn.com or any any other special ID then it is a case similar to yahoo special domains which require full typing, then where is the problem in country specific domains

    I agree that people also use @live.com(including myself) or @msn.com domain but still you can yourself find people who use hotmail domain (be it .com or any other country specific) are way way more than people using other domains. So our suggestion is in favour of those mass of people at least they should be benefitted by this as typing domain again & again in my opinion is useless.

  • Jessica, you're not saying or conveying anything different than exactly what I said... except that you believe disagreeing with you and pointing out that your suggestion (yes, I know it was something hotmail had previously - but you still suggested it) excludes many hotmail users is somehow "bashing" you. Then you deny that you intended to say "screw off" (and those were your words, not mine) to anyone without a hotmail address - but basically conclude your post by giving a "sorry" for anyone in that circumstance. It's the same message, and I'm sure you've heard the phrase, "just saying 'sorry' doesn't make it better."

    I read all your comments before I posted and, yes, I know Eric thought your suggestion was nice. We're still allowed to disagree with an idea even if Eric thinks it's great... and I'm not saying your suggestion isn't good for something. But I AM disagreeing that it's a viable "solution" to any of the problems being discussed here, and am saying that it shouldn't be considered as such.

  • @whenenrome thanks for the public bashing.. seriously wtf? All I did was give an idea.. I never said screw off to anyone who doesn't have an @hotmail.com address. And btw, if you read all my comments you would've saw "...original idea of mine.. it was, in fact, a feature that was already in place on a previous version of hotmail..." and eric's reply with "Good suggestion to suggest a domain if the user leaves it blank. Thanks for reaching out!"

    So when in rome, users with @hotmail.com addresses may be getting a shortcut, ones without will probably have to enter their full addresses... sorry.. now pipe down!

  • Something new, or at least that I have never before noticed, appeared tonight at the top of my inbox after signing in: "Manage Hotmail more easily. You can send and receive messages from multiple hotmail addresses without having to log in and out. Learn more..."

    I checked that out and saw that it was just linking other addresses with your current inbox.

    I'm not sure if that's the "deployment" we're talking about. I hope it's not - because if it is, we're really missing the point. Please let me be wrong... and please clarify what the deployment actually is.

  • Yes, I keep checking back here. Most of the other threads have been locked anyway. I stopped using Hotmail but will return if the remember me option is put back, or at least something that makes more sense than what they did. No way I'll type in entire addresses now after being able to do it so easy before. I wonder if I could get a refund for Hotmail plus.

    Oh, and I'll never believe the 2% use statement and also most won't have the time to chase down this blog. Its amazing too me that this team thought taking the remember me option off, and doing away with the sign in assistant that kept a list of emails was a good idea.

  • I'll have to respectfully disagree with SweetJessica  - clearly a case where "sweet" does not include "altruistic" within its intended meaning. As one of those "unfortunate" people with an msn.com suffix on his email addresses, I wouldn't be helped by her idea. I saw the added comment that such an idea is "better than nothing." Actually, for me, it isn't: It's the SAME as nothing. (By the way, I didn't get the memo that said if you don't have hotmail.com at the end, then you don't count.) And in terms of the greater good, for everyone, it's not "good enough," either. I'm not even sure why it was brought up other than a veiled way to tell people like me "pipe down, Sally, I don't care about the problem as much as you do."

    That said, I want to thank you, Eric - because you HAVE conveyed that you care about the effect the change has had on your users. Thank you for taking responsibility for it openly, because I - and evidently many others - really did start to wonder if it was something mandated from above your team. From what I gather from your comments, not to mention the countless responses from your users, the "remember me" log-in is simply a feature that's popularity was grossly under-estimated!

    I, just like everyone else I'm sure, am very interested to see what's happening with modifications you're about to deploy. But in the mean time, as someone suggested above, would you mind telling us the nature of the improvements your team made? What exactly is it and what can we expect to see?

    Thanks again, Eric...

    ~ Roman

    P.S.  - A big thank you to Langware for keeping focus on this. As I said before, the comments have slowed down... but clearly the interest in regaining the "remember me" functionality and purpose will always remain. And just like I have, certainly countless others are still checking back often for updates.

  • PAN GEO
    1 Posts

    IS VERY STUPED THE NEW DESIGN.

    I have 5 accounts and every time, i must disconnect and connect to the other, to look my emails.

    WHAT IS THIS???

    Why i must pay because some people was forgeting to do the right thing so the computer not storage password.

    My nephew is 10 years old and never done that mistake.

    WHAT I CAN SAY..............

  • sirraj
    1 Posts

    I have been thinking of switching to gmail. This change makes my decision easy. This was a bad idea. I have the choice of entering my user name and password over and over again or staying logged in. I don't like either choice.

  • amktk
    8 Posts

    I agree with Really Annoyed ... its the multi-account tiles or at the very least the "remember my username" option that needs to be restored!

  • I fully agree with @sweetjessica and others that appending a default domain to an ID when logging in (**IF** one had not been specified in an attempt to resolve the correct account) is a GOOD thing to do.  It's certainly better than failing for all in these situations.  A nice little feature to add especially under the current "type everything" login page we have right now.

    I guess I was simply trying to point out that it really needed to be a little more complex solution than adding a simplistic @hotmail.com (particularly for non-USA users); and more importantly (as @langware also noted), it's going to return to being a fairly minor feature and bypassed by most users when the "remember my username" and/or "multi-account tiles" features are restored in some form.

  • You guys are looking into things way too much.. adding the @hotmail.com domain or any country domain for that matter is only a shortcut to make things easier, it's not the end of the world.. if it doesn't work for you, then type your full domain.

    As I stated before, this was not an original idea of mine.. it was, in fact, a feature that was already in place on a previous version of hotmail some years ago. They figured it out before and I'm sure Eric and his team will find the best solution for it (again), if they decide to put it in place.

  • langware
    154 Posts

    @Really Annoyed:

    Regarding Microsoft's use of a default domain domain on the Sign-on Page, you made a very good point that most of us overlooked: many different (country specific) domains are used for Hotmail accounts. This obviously complicates the the problem for Microsoft ... no matter what default domain they choose to insert, some set of customers will not be happy with the choice.

    Once Microsoft restores the Sign-on features to remember the customer's full ID (with domain name) and the ability to manage multiple independent accounts/tiles on the Sign-on Page, then perhaps inserting a default domain name will become less critical (because customers can elect to have their full ID remembered).

  • I'm commenting again after monitoring this blog page for a while.

    @Eric

    I would like to express my THANKS that you do seem to be listening to the various comments being made.  I look forward to seeing the changes you are about to roll out.

    RE:  Automatically appending the @hotmail.com when a user fails to add the full domain to their Login ID.

    I still hope that the multiple clickable tiles (if previously used and authorised to be remembered) feature is returned in some form.  This was so simple and convenient.  It also matches the Windows 7 (multi-)account login page functionality.  This feature would seem to render the typing of username, with/without domain, not really so relevant for most using private PCs/hardware, but I agree would be useful for those using public access hardware.

    Although it is widely recognised that other domains such as @live.com are being used, I would like to point out (mainly to the others commenting here) that automatically adding the domain @hotmail.com may not be so convenient.  This is because the domains used are also country specific.  There are a lot more different domains than has been suggested by the previous postings.  For those in the USA please spare a thought for those living in other parts of the world.

    If I try to create a new hotmail account I can only choose one with @hotmail.co.nz and the same will be true for many other "country specific" hotmail accounts.

    -> If the sign-on page can detect and append a country specific domain then I would suggest that the SAME LOGIC gets applied WHEN A USER DOES NOT PROVIDE A DOMAIN as part of their Login ID.  It would be an improvement over a simple hardcoding of "@hotmail.com".

    [This won't work for me since I already have a @hotmail.com domain account but as I mentioned above I'm hoping I can click on my ID "tile" so won't need to type anything but my password.  I choose not to be auto-logged in by my own choice.  If I do have to type my ID I'd expect that typing the full ID with domain would permit me to login with @hotmail.com even though the default would be resolved to be @hotmail.co.nz.]

  • @Eric Doerr hopefully you live up to your surname (tho I'm sure its not pronouced that way) and we do see my suggestion in the next rollout or so!.. but at any rate, it's just nice to have a place to give these suggestions!

    Also @Eric can you tell us anything about the Link IDs? What's going on with that?

    @trulyindian I agree with you that @langware's idea would complicate things more.. lets keep things simple.

  • I completely second @sweetjessica thought which is : "......How about .................. with @hotmail.com if it was not entered."

    I think this is a brilliant suggestion and even I had given this feedback on Hotmail feedback page.

    @ langware: as far as your addition to @sweetjessica thought is concerned, I think that would make the whole process of signing in more complicated (as there would me multiple login pages one for live.com another for hotmail.com and so on.

    I would vote for a single sign on page rather than multiple domains ( best eg. is Gmail). As majority of customers use hotmail.com domain, my suggestion is just to do away with the need of typing @hotmail.com each time I login but if my ID is @live.com (or for that matter any other domain also like @msn.com etc.) then user should type that domain. This would make whole process more simple and people wont have to remember different domains as suggested by you.

    Thanks

  • langware
    154 Posts

    @Eric:

    Thanks for the update.

    "...we will include with our next scheduled maintenance release (which luckily is starting on Monday). Full deployments can take a little while - so we are looking at a few weeks to have this rolled out 100% across the world."

    Prior to the full rollout, can you please provide some notice/documentation of the new features ... so that customers are not again surprised by changes to the Sign-on Page .... perhaps a "what's coming" link on the Sign-on page that describes the new features and how to use them?

  • Eric, as a PM your lack of deployment information, lack of communications across the board and incredible lack of empathy with the very people who use your services is astounding. Yes, I understand why this decision was made, for future tools and services.

    What I and millions of others fail to see is the logic where I do not get a choice. Give me and my family the option to have this behaviour BACK the way it used to be. It should be MY choice, not your dictatorship.  I call FAIL to you and your team of programming kiddies.

    See that share price Eric? See how it hasn't moved in a decade? YOU are part of the reason for that.

  • @sweetjessica

    Good suggestion to suggest a domain if the user leaves it blank. Thanks for reaching out!

    -Eric

  • Friday afternoon update.

    We found a good solution to the problems that we encountered this week. We are working hard on the solution (including having team members here this weekend). The solution is more complicated than our previous change, this means that we will need to do a full deployment, which we will include with our next scheduled maintenance release (which luckily is starting on Monday). Full deployments can take a little while - so we are looking at a few weeks to have this rolled out 100% across the world.

    We'll keep you posted as we go.

    Thanks,

    Eric

  • langware
    154 Posts

    @Eric,

    To add to the suggestion made by sweetjessica .....  in order to allow users to just enter their ID and not domain when signing on, perhaps customers could use a specific URL that matches the domain of their email account when signing on.

    For example .... customers with a hotmail.com account would use www.hotmail.com to sign-on. Customers with a live.com account would use www.live.com to sign on. Then the servers that host the corresponding URL could insert the proper domain name (if a domain name is not specified by the customer).

    I realize my suggestion might require DNS changes to route sign-on requests differently based on the domain name used in the URL, and thus might not be practical. It's just a suggestion. I'm sure there are many other ways to solve this problem (i.e., using other parameters in the sign-on URL). Point being that a solution should be found so that (in most cases) customers would not have to type their domain when signing on ... which would be a definite improvement in user friendliness.

  • I must be a 2% er  -  used the 'remember me' a lot since we have multiple users in household

    Downright nasty doing it this way each day

    Any chance of option to either have or have not the 'remember me' button?

  • Eric, since you seem to be the one to go to I'd like to throw out my suggestion as well...

    How about making it just that much easier to sign in by not requiring we enter "@hotmail.com" at the end of hotmail addresses? I understand there are multiple domains, ie live.com, msn.com, ect and even companies can use the hotmail service for their business email, but considering this is hotmail.com that we're logging into and the majority of addresses are most likely @hotmail.com, I think it would be smart treat usernames entered without an @domain.com as @hotmail.com addresses. I know an older version of the login screen used to do this with javascript by completing a username with @hotmail.com if it was not entered.

  • amktk
    8 Posts

    Thanks Eric!

  • langware
    154 Posts

    @Eric,

    THANK YOU for your transparency.

    Of course your customers will be disappointed at the delay, but your openness (as to the current status and situation) is exactly what we've been asking for.

    Please find a way to get this new status to the WLSC's moderators ... so they can provide current information to those customers who look to the WLSC for help.

    Thanks again!!!

  • A couple days ago I posted a comment that:

    "At this point we have a change being validated in testing. Assuming everything goes well, we will be able to roll this change to production in the next couple days."

    I wanted to give a quick update on our progress.

    We had a change coded and in testing early this week and it was looking really good... and then we ran into a couple issues. The new change is something that will work across modern browsers (not just IE) and we ran into some issues getting consistent behavior. To workaround these issues we need to change our approach and that is going to delay this change for a bit. I don't have an exact ETA - I hope only a few days but we need to verify.

    I wanted to be extra transparent given that I know some of you are anxiously awaiting this. I will keep you posted every couple days, and hope to be able to roll this change out shortly.

    Thanks,

    Eric

  • I have no axe to grind, but the changes are very invconvient for a house hold with multiple users.   We have 3 computers and it's such a waste of time logging in with an e-mail address many times each day.   Although I've spent hours on how to work a round the changes, I am still frustrated with the new process.  Unfortunately I don't even comprehend the "separate windows account" senerio.  I spent a little time trying to set-up another account for my wife, but gave up due my own confusion (How do you set up a separate acct?).  Some of us are apparently pretty stupid, and your explainations need reach our level.  Thanks for "listening".

  • decoy
    4 Posts

    I created an account just to protest this idiotic move the Window Live/ Hotmail team is pulling.  This is the most ridiculous idea the Hotmail/ Live in a short while. This is basically making backwards. How on earth can people with 5 or more personal email addresses are supposed to manage their accounts in a fast and efficient way?

    I personally have seven (7) different PERSONAL email addresses that I have to log-in to on a daily basis and now this task is a lot more time consuming.  Entering 7 email addresses and 7 complex passwords is now a chore and someone needs to fix this bone headed move. I’m guessing now live assistant is no longer a valid option.

    If such a system is needed, for whatever reason, there should be a way for live.com to store/remember an email address only, without saving the password -- you know similar to how Gmail works. I hope Google fix Gmail pretty soon so I can give Microsoft the middle finger.  

    Also, I don’t understand how this is good for Hotmail/live mail and not for Office 365 which still allow ‘remember me’ and ‘keep me signed in.’

    The morons that Microsoft hire to make these silly decisions  should but fired and replaced with people who are more technically aware with what is going on. This is why Microsoft is failing in the consumer market, except for Xbox. Their market research suck big time -- Zune and Windows phone -- because no one is taking the time to look as what is better for consumers.  THIS IS BULLSHIT.

  • Knightsky
    17 Posts

    @langware

    I can only hope those users in the forum I provided the link to this Blog, continue to return here for news and haven’t given up….

  • brilaf
    13 Posts

    I echo jennydjld comments above. I too are waiting for Eric's update(s).

  • i'm back...been away for a week...hoping that this matter would be resolved....had to take a break from it...was just getting too agitated!! i just wanted to thank Langware for keeping up with the issue and to thank everyone for continuing to comment...i am also encouraged by your latest response(s) Eric and anxiously await the arrival of your full blog post...

  • langware
    154 Posts

    @Eric,

    Over 24 hours after you posted this status ...

    "At this point we have a change being validated in testing. Assuming everything goes well, we will be able to roll this change to production in the next couple days."

    ... the WLSC moderators are still not aware .... they continue to use generic replies when responding to complaints about the recent changes to the Sign-on page such as ...

    "...  we appreciate your suggestion and we will treat this as a feature request for possible future releases."

    "We have removed the "Remember Me" option and the multiple account sign in support platform from our Windows Live sign in page."

    Shouldn't the WLSC be providing their customers with more current status ... that a fix to restore two specific features will be rolled out in the next couple days? Throughout this entire episode, the WLSC has not been very useful. Are there any plans to improve the WLSC's usefulness?

  • Linchen
    1 Posts

    Please revert this change. Enough of this BS. I have used hotmail for years so don't tell me what to like and what I don't need, I know that. Please make this optional because we don't all want this.

  • Hello, I don't like the new login either. Please change it back asap.

  • Chick
    2 Posts

    Eric Doerr:

    "...- people who share a PC and juggle multiple accounts, but who don't want to use separate Windows accounts

    - individuals who use 1 primary account and want their username remembered but not their password..."

    So that means the usertiles will be back I hope? People who share one PC should also be able to make their username remembered, but not their password (also optional). Like in the old login? If you're going to do something else and disappoint us with one PC on share AGAIN, then I hope you will AT LEAST mention it before you roll it out.

  • Chick
    2 Posts

    Eric Doerr:

    "...- people who share a PC and juggle multiple accounts, but who don't want to use separate Windows accounts

    - individuals who use 1 primary account and want their username remembered but not their password..."

    So that means the usertiles will be back I hope? People who share one PC should also be able to make their username remembered, but not their password (also optional). Like in the old login?

  • amktk
    8 Posts

    Thanks Eric for the update. Good to know that giving feedback is worthwhile.

  • jono44
    3 Posts

    Thanks Eric.

    Let's hope you get it as good and as simple as it used to be.

    Personally i can't see how people used to get confused with it all when we had options to either save our login in details (tick box) and passwords if that's what they wanted.

    I wouldn't like to see them making purchases and banking etc etc online if they get confused using email logins.

    Thanks again,

    Jon.

  • Hi Eric.  I will add my thanks for your communication and what appears will be a thoughtful response to our concerns.  The loss of my multiple accounts on the Hotmail login page was what initiated my posting here and I am glad you are addressing this issue.  

    However, you posted about the ability to link multiple hotmail/live account IDs (your intended course of action for people like me).  This feature does not work; further, we've been told on the Live ID support forum that Link IDs is no longer available.  Is this true?  Will you consider reviving it?  I thought to try this feature to consolidate access to all my accounts via my primary account.  I'd be happy with either:

    1.  Accessing my linked accounts via the dropdown by my login name (upper right once logged into Hotmail).  I think this may have been the way it worked but, again, Link IDs never worked for me.

    2.  Having a "Linked IDs" section in the left hand folder area.

    It would be nice to have a way to consolidate mulitple accounts - though this should be an "opt-in" feature (for many reasons).  IMHO, giving people the choice to adopt new features and customize technology to fit their needs makes for happy, loyal customers.  

    To take this issue further - making Windows OS more mac-like and IE more Chrome-like should be acceptable only if it is possible to selectively customize away these "improvements" (the removal of useful, accepted features).  This is why, for example, I've created a quick launch area in an XP-like taskbar in Windows 7 and refused to adopt IE9 (which is a shame since it improves compliance over IE8).  If I liked/wanted mac or chrome, I'd use them.  

    Please don't make Hotmail more gmail-like by removing useful features (like folders) or forcing a thread-like structure on us.  Horrors!  Note: allowing "arrange by conversation" but not making it mandatory (or even the default) is an example of doing it the right way.

    Thanks again for hearing us.

  • Knightsky
    17 Posts

    @Eric Doerr

    Thanks for your most recent (July 18) update, it is greatly appreciated.

  • langware
    154 Posts

    @Eric,

    If I have posted anything that offended you, please accept my apology. That was not my intention.

    My intention was to convey the frustration most likely felt by a good many of the six million customers who were blindsided by this change and were receiving inconsistent responses from the WLSC as to the status and the possibility of restoring the features removed.

    I thank you for your recent post and look forward to the roll-out of the change that will address ...

    - people who share a PC and juggle multiple accounts, but who don't want to use separate Windows accounts

    - individuals who use 1 primary account and want their username remembered but not their password

  • @whenenrome

    @langware -

    Thanks for all the posts and the energy you've put into sharing your thoughts on this and other blog posts.

    @langware said in response to @whenenrome's post:

    >>>>An excellent suggestion ... for Eric (on behalf of Microsoft) to be completely honest with us customers about the recent changes to the Sign-On Page. However, it would appear that a decision has been made by those over Eric's head, and Eric is left with the unpleasant task of dealing with the consequences. It also appears (at this point) that Eric may have been told not to post any more comments here. His upper management may be hoping that the six million customers (who used the features that have been removed) will eventually give up, stop complaining, and perhaps go elsewhere (Microsoft may feel they can afford to lose six million customers if we would just go away and stop complaining). <<<<<

    I want to be really clear that there's no conspiracy here. Nobody made a decision "above my head."

    The responsibility is mine. The login page changes came from my team and the decision about how to address the feedback is also something we've been working on inside the team.

    I *have* been hesitant to blog about the change in response to the feedback until I was SURE it would work. Given the energy on the blog, I didn't want to raise false hopes.

    At this point things are looking pretty good so I wanted to give an update (see previous comment). And now I'm actively working on a full blog post to give more context that will go out in sync with the new change.

    Thanks,

    Eric

  • I mentioned in a previous comment that we are working on a change. At this point we have a change being validated in testing. Assuming everything goes well, we will be able to roll this change to production in the next couple days.

    I'll do a new blog post to share all the details of that change as we roll it out. The cliff's note version is that it is designed to help two scenarios:

    - people who share a PC and juggle multiple accounts, but who don't want to use separate Windows accounts

    - individuals who use 1 primary account and want their username remembered but not their password

    More in the next few days.

    - Eric

  • langware
    154 Posts

    @whenenrome:

    Very good post! Thank you.

    An excellent suggestion ... for Eric (on behalf of Microsoft) to be completely honest with us customers about the recent changes to the Sign-On Page. However, it would appear that a decision has been made by those over Eric's head, and Eric is left with the unpleasant task of dealing with the consequences. It also appears (at this point) that Eric may have been told not to post any more comments here. His upper management may be hoping that the six million customers (who used the features that have been removed) will eventually give up, stop complaining, and perhaps go elsewhere (Microsoft may feel they can afford to lose six million customers if we would just go away and stop complaining).

    RikkiEric may be right ... the changes to the Sign-on Page might be in preparation for Windows 8 and the push to have one device per customer, with each customer having multiple accounts. But the earliest anyone is talking about for a Windows 8 release is Fall 2012, and if history repeats itself, there will be schedule slips ... I would not expect Windows 8 until 2013-2014 (that's just my opinion, I have no inside information .... only the history of Microsoft's schedule slips when coming out with a new OS).

    Also, I believe Microsoft's assumption that many/most customers will have one device each is not reasonable. According to this site (en.wikipedia.org/.../Microsoft_Windows) the Net Market Share of Windows XP is 52.41%. Many many customers are using old hardware/software, using public PCs, and sharing their computers at home. They do not fit into Microsoft's assumption of one user per device. They were happily using features that Microsoft recently took away.

    It certainly would be nice to get a straightforward and honest answer as to why the features were removed and why they can't be restored. But I don't think that will happen. I think all we'll get is silence (unless/until this issue is picked up by the media).

    But we can continue to post .... both in this blog, and (when the comments here are eventually locked to stifle our feedback) in future blogs where the blog's author states how well Microsoft listens to their customer's feedback. We can all provide counter-examples of any statement claiming that Microsoft is being customer focused.

    Meanwhile, we wait for a response from Eric .................

  • I've been checking out this blog about every other day, reading the countless, OVERWHELMING proportion of comments opposed to this change. Today, with the silence now becoming deafening, I decided to register and post.

    Let me start off with this: The explanation behind the change is a typical corporate-PR style of patronizing your clients. String them along with some relatively pleasant sounding nonsense in the hopes that you'll tire them all out and that they'll give up. Eric, if MS would let you be 100% straightforward about the reasons behind this, while people would still be unhappy, at least they wouldn't feel jacked around (the Windows 8 comment a little before mine sounds LIGHT YEARS more plausible than "security," and sounds like a more detalied, straightforward version of yours).

    This style of dealing with customers, while too common among those who are falling OUT OF TOUCH with their customers, almost always ends up back-firing. You'll definitely lose their respect, and likely, you'll lose them altogether.

    Just say what is going to happen, and what is not going to happen. Or at minimal, give some indication that your higher-ups are limiting you from saying anything. Let your clients make an informed decision about what they want to do with the changes - if they want to stay or go.

    Finally, there's just no good reason - no sensible, rational reason (in spite of the numerious "for security" excuses - which really should just stop, because they sound so ridiculous!) that there can't be an option for a "Remember Me" sign-in - even if it's offered on a different pages that users can bookmark. The cat's out of the bag! By that, I mean - contrary to what MS is trying to imply regarding "security" - everyone knows there's no rational reason that can't be done.

    Now, Eric, what people need from you is a response that covers all these points, and brings some closure (not more stringing along) to the issues users have brought before you in these comments. The commentary has slowed down, but the waiting and checking back here hasn't. I'm a perfect example. Please, Eric, lay it out for us so that everyone can make an informed decision about the changes. Thank you.

  • greengo
    2 Posts

    Less of this pathetic security resonse. The keep me signed feature is the least secure option you could imagine, and if people were too confused to untick the remember me box, what makes you think they won't leave themselves signed in. Come on Eric, respond to this security issue and tell us how this is more secure or better in any way, because your argument has been totally demolished by Langware among others. Better still, come back and tell us all "Sorry, we got this one wrong and are going to restore the feature that so many million of you want back." Have you ever heard the phrase " when you are in a deep hole stop digging ".

    It is a bit late for me, I am off to gmail now as it is simply better and I don't need to type in a dissertation every time I want to login. I am still pretty annoyed at the redesign and the limp efforts to explain it away. I actually tried to remove IE, but surprise it is so embedded it is impossible to remove. I've frankly had enough of Microsoft, and when my laptop dies, I am going to buy a Mac.

  • @Langware

    If you have a look at what Windows 8 is going to be, you might understand this decision.

    It seems like they want to push us to have multiple windows user accounts on 1 computer (which can … eh... no … WILL be linked to Live-account) so our computers can be better ‘personalized’…

  • langware
    154 Posts

    @Eric Doerr:

    I just received another response from a WLSC moderator:

    "We apologize, but there is no solution at this moment. Our Product Group is already aware of this and they are set to provide the fix in the next release. Remember me option on sign in page for Live accounts is no longer available by design with the new release of Hotmail. This ensures a more secure way to sign in, preventing unauthorized access to your Live ID accounts."

    Hmmmm .... looks like a corporate decision has been made to just ignore the SIX MILLION customers who were impacted by the loss of the "Remember Me" and the multiple account features. The WLSC moderators are now all posting replies like those above.

    But to add insult to injury, the excuse being used is that the "Remember Me" feature was removed because of a security issue .... yet the "Keep me signed-on" option remains ... and I'm sure you will admit that for customers who use a public or a shared computer .... the "Keep me signed-on" option is indeed a security risk.

    The security card does not play ... and using it is just another insult to your customers.

    Asking us to believe that this problem will be fixed in the next release is also insulting. How often is that promise made and then broken???

    Apparently Microsoft is willing to write off SIX MILLION customers!

  • langware
    154 Posts

    @Eric Doerr,

    I just received this response from the Windows Live Solution Center regarding my request to bring the "Remember Me" and multiple account features back ...

    "The changes with the "Remember Me" and multiple account management features were initialized because of the potential risk with its security set up.

    We would consider your concern as a feature request and have you fill out a request form in the link below so we can do an update with similar or identical functions with a more secured platform in our future releases."

    On July 12, you stated ... "we’re looking at some updates to help solve some of the problems mentioned here. Stay tuned for more details in the next few days."

    While your response was somewhat vague, it did specifically state that Microsoft was looking at updates to solve problems mentioned in this blog .... and the two most frequent problems mentioned in this blog are the "Remember Me" and multiple account features that were recently removed.

    On the other hand, the WLSC response is the standard "we'll look into solving your problem in some future release" ... which (based on many of the requests and responses I've seen in the WLSC) means "never".

    Are you withdrawing your promise to provide updates that will "solve some of the problems mentioned here", or did the WLSC moderator who responded to me just use the wrong scripted reply?

    The recent changes to the Sign-on page affected six million of your customers. It's been five days since your last post. Please have the courtesy of keeping your customers informed (recall that one of the problems associated with the recent changes to the Sign-on page is that customers were not kept informed ... please don't make that same mistake again).

    Can we have some status?

  • Rufus
    1 Posts

    Hey! Bring the old login with saved emails back please! It really made you unique!

  • Zelda
    1 Posts

    If you listen, can you please change it back to what it was before this? Thanks.

  • JackJ
    3 Posts

    I am also extremely dissatisfied with the change. Obviously, the vast majority is against this change. And the same ratio should be applied to all other people not posting to get a picture what percentage of people is against or in favor.

    Here is what I think about this change. In this age, companies like Microsoft won't spend money on any changes unless it brings more profits to them. I am sure you all feel today's market's increasing demand and sometimes forcing (new cell phones) for us to be ALWAYS ONLINE. This has a hidden (behind different temptations) purpose to make us spend more money.

    I am not even talking about the signs described in Bible regarding End of Days...

    Also, most of you have watched the movie Matrix which shows us the idea of being always online, or being part of the matrix...

    In this age you can't control anymore how much of your info is being read, recorded, analyzed ... while you are online. Who is reading all the complicated-language fineprints when signing up for a service ?  This way you are becoming an easily controllable means of making more profits for the big companies and eventually for people who fund, design and plan all this.

    I am sure, Microsoft's plan for this change is that they have already made a decision to disregard this wave of complains, and planned to use time against us (gradually most of us will start living with it, in this fast-paced life). I urge you not to give up, and continue to pursue the resolution of this issue. Remember, it's us what "they" need for their success.

    Thanks to everyone taking time to make comments, especially "langware" for persistence and guidance.

    I also urge you not to stay "signed in" or "online", generally, in life. Look what's happening with the young generation: they are like zombies signed in to their portable devices, not noticing anything around.

    To Microsoft: Please bring back the "remember me" and the old interface. In this high-tech age, the MINIMUM you can do is GIVE US OPTIONS for the way we sign in. This is pretty simple and will satisfy ALL of your users. For the name like Microsoft it would be very shameful if you are not able to do this minimum.

    Thanks.

    PS:  If I may:  Read the Bible - Jesus is the only Way, the Truth and the Life...

  • easyrb
    1 Posts

    Seriously, the explination was a smug one at best, MS decides what is best, their prerogative, then lets the great unwashed find out by discovery, not prior annoucement.  Instead of giving an alternative to those who wish to continue with the "remember me" check box, via a specific "Live Assistant" and add-ons manger download, MS decided that what fits them fits all, once again their choice.  If there were really a viable option, more than just a few would have already moved to it.   After all "You can have any color Ford you want as long as it is black."

  • This change is affecting my whole family and also my professional life. I own an SMB who is a MS Gold Partner and have multiple Live IDs some associated with my business and some personal. The new logon system is really wasting my valuable time. Please consider undoing these changes.

    Also I would like to thanks langware for your support on this matter and the effort you invested.

    Alex Z.

  • abi391
    1 Posts

    Hi i would like the Remember Me option to come back, I don't want to be signed in continuously.  I don't understand the reason fo this change at all and the explanation makes no sense to me.

  • okminty
    1 Posts

    Couldn't agree with langware more. This feature is a security problem for people who have multiple users on one PC. If the people you changed it for had trouble determining which tile to check, wait till they discover that they have left their email account logged in at the public library. Say they are working logged in and the time expires on that computer. The next person on that PC will go into their account. My wife and I share one PC but we really don't want each other editing our mail or deleting items because the email account was left logged on. When my adult children come to visit I can let them use my PC to check their mail and once they sign out they are out. Terrible mistake MS has made. You need to give us an option to remember our user ID. It works for facebook just fine. I don't care if others see my ID, but they should need a password to get to my or their account. You people need to think outside your little "techie world" box and speak to users who don't use all those "cool" features you do. I only want my mail and I want it to be secure.

  • langware
    154 Posts

    @Eric Doerr,

    Three days ago, you posted a comment that said ... "we’re looking at some updates to help solve some of the problems mentioned here. Stay tuned for more details in the next few days."

    I'm sure you and your team are working hard to address the problems mentioned in this blog (and in the WLSC), and to restore the key features that were removed from the Sign-on Page two weeks ago.

    Perhaps you can give us some status ... what problems will you fix, what features will you restore, and in what timeframe can we expect to see this done?

    Thanks!

  • metoo
    2 Posts

    In addition...

    It took me over a week of searching to find this forum.  There isn't a convenient way to get help with Hotmail.  Perhaps that may be why you think that most people are pleased with you recent change.  Everyone that I know who uses Hotmail has more than one username, so there are lots of people who are impacted with this change.

    Maybe you could add a disclaimer on the Hotmail login page, indicating that "We've changed our look - how do you like it?" and post a link to this blog.

  • metoo
    2 Posts

    I read your explanation, but I still want the previous functionality back.  People with long usernames have come to rely on the previous implementation.

    As previous posters have mentioned, there are other choices for email out there.  I wouldn't want to have to change over to a different provider, but I will if this login situation isn't resolved to my satisfaction.

    Perhaps you can come up with a "classic" login mode?

  • BSDEE
    1 Posts

    A horrible change - posted this in the vain hope that customers feedback might actually have some impact... best not hold my breath eh?

  • Blink
    1 Posts

    Sorry but this is a horrible change. You would never get big without us customers, so bring that feature back.