“Copy and paste” update status

“Copy and paste” update status

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UPDATE—Wed. Mar 30

Yesterday we started delivering the “copy and paste” update to Windows Phone customers at more than a dozen new mobile operators around the world. You can see the list at Where’s my phone update?, which we’ll be refreshing on Wednesdays with the latest schedule changes. So far, the rollout is progressing smoothly.

We’re happy to finally be making the copy and paste update more widely available. But remember that we deliver updates gradually to start. So even if the status for your operator changed today to “Delivering update,” it could still take about two weeks or so before you see a notification on your phone that it’s available for download. We are taking the time to really scrutinize quality to make sure your update experience is great.

Some of you might actually get two update notices on your phone in the weeks ahead (if you see “Delivering update” in both status columns). The first notification you’ll get is for the February update. After you’ve installed it, you’ll receive a second notification for the “copy and paste” update. I’ve already started seeing a few questions about the timing of these in blogs and forums. Because of how our process works, these two updates most likely won’t arrive back to back, but days or even a week or two apart. You can learn more from this support article.

I know many of you are disappointed, even angry. You certainly have a right to be. We’ve fallen far short of your expectations, and our own, and for that I’m truly sorry. We didn’t set out to let you down. But it’s clear we did. Whether you’re someone who has followed our progress from the start, or are new to Windows Phone, you deserve the updates we’ve promised. My job is to get us on the right path and deliver them.


Hello again. As you might have heard, yesterday we kicked off our "copy and paste" update, which comes with a bunch of improvements for your phone. Today I want to briefly explain where we are in the process—and also tell you about a new update-related resource we’ve created based on your feedback.

This week we’re sending out the new update only to “open market” Windows Phones around the world. If you own one of these phones, you probably already know it: these are unbranded devices that aren’t customized for a specific mobile operator.

In next phase of the rollout process, we’ll start making the update available to a broader range of customers. When the update is available for your phone, you’ll get a message on the device letting you know. All the instructions you need to install an update are here on the Windows Phone website. (Some new phones come with the update already installed.)

As I explained in my last post, we intentionally deliver updates in batches, ramping up gradually to help ensure the process is as problem-free as possible. (And so far, the copy and paste update is proceeding smoothly.)

But it was clear from your comments that many of you want a better idea of when to expect your update. Is it on the way—or weeks away? These are natural questions.

To help answer them, we’ve created a new online resource called Where’s my phone update? that provides some insight into where we are, and where your phone is, in the multi-stage update process.

Much like when you buy a PC online, you’ll be able to see when the update is being tested and packaged, when it’s about to ship, and when it’s “left the warehouse.” We’ll update the site once a week with the latest status changes.

Thanks again for your patience as we work to streamline our phone update process. And I’m looking forward to hearing what you think about copy and paste and the new update status tool.

Eric Hautala

General Manager, Customer Experience Engineering

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  • We are taking the time to really scrutinize www.billigetiffanysalg.com/tiffany-tilbehor-gaver-til-ham.html quality to make sure your update experience is great.

  • Can this be true?  Can someone from Microsoft PLEASE www.billigetiffanysalg.com/tiffany-smykker.html respond?  Who owns each of the steps highlighted in the Where's my update" table?

  • MiSahEL
    10 Posts

    Got tired of waiting... Followed the instructions mentioned here to un-brand my Samsung Focus and it quickly picked up both updates. So I'm running NoDo, No thanks to the Carriers or Microsoft.

    Gizmodo has an article on WP7 gizmodo.com

  • edm
    27 Posts

    I just talked to an AT&T rep, and again, they absolutely refute that the are doing any NoDo testing at all.  They claim that the testing is being done by MSFT, and it is up to MSFT to release the update once they have tested it on their AT&T network.

    Can this be true?  Can someone from Microsoft PLEASE respond?  Who owns each of the steps highlighted in the Where's my update" table?

    The silence in here (as far as responses from MSFT) is deafening, which may be telling.....

    I hate to admit it, but Android is beginning to sound tempting.

  • That's sad, i don't understand what the deal with AT&T is, they're going to forever be stuck in their "Testing" phase so it's no wonder people are resorting to hacks and updater tools.

    Microsoft then warns people about using updating tools because it'll prevent them from getting future updates but isn't this exactly what the Carriers are doing already? smh

  • No luck for us At&t users. The "Where's my phone update?" chart says it was update today and it still says "Testing**"


  • edm
    27 Posts

    @dbk1898  - Sorry to dissapoint you!  Testing.....the same testing that AT&T told me they are NOT doing at all for NoDo.

    This is so sad, it is almost funny.  AT & T is just pathetic, and by extension so is MSFT by allowing them to do this.  But my beef is with AT&T, since my $ goes to them.

  • edm
    27 Posts

    @dbk1898 - An optimist in our midst......I hope you are right.  That would at least show some progress.

  • dkb1898
    167 Posts

    @edm - I predict it will move into the Scheduling state, and they will also address the Chevron tool "situation"

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @ThaRebeliouZ, yes, good call on that one....can't believe a forgot to include it.

  • I agree @ScubaDog the copy & paste feature has been pretty good so far. And yes those sites are constantly visted by myself. For those of you WP users that don't have this news app "WP7 News" please get that free App from the Marketplace right now to stay up to date on the latest :D

  • torsus
    7 Posts

    @ScubaDog - I hit everyone of those sites several times daily.  They are the best sources for WP7 info.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    Folks, is this the only site many of you are using to get your news about WP7 or devices?  If so, then you'd find that most of your questions would already have been answered--often days or weeks ago--by DAILY visiting these sites:

    EverythingWM, Neowin, Windows Phone Secrets by Paul Thurrott, PocketNow, Windows Phone 7 Central, Windows Phone Thoughts, WinRumors, WMPoweruser, WPCentral.  I track these daily (if not more frequently).  A LOT of NoDo videos have already come out, as well as those for WP7 generally.  I can't stress enough that you need to compile your info from these sources first.  

    BTW, I don't get the desire to copy only a piece of a word....I love the new C&P feature as-is.  It copies precisely what I want and allows (so far) unlimited paste capability.

  • torsus
    7 Posts

    @edm - Ummm, I'm going to go out on a limb here and bet both my arms and legs that it will still say testing.  With the completion date changed to:

    **Estimated testing completion date is early April 2012

  • edm
    27 Posts

    Anybody cares to bet as to what the new "status" for the AT&T phones will be after today's "update"?......

  • litri01
    1 Posts

    at last clear communication that left me knowing when to expect the update. your page announced status and O2 announced on FB that it would be the 5th and last night I got the notification on my phone. currently downloading now

    keep the transparrency and you will win back confidence. hide stuff and i am afraid people will start to leave this excellent platform before you have had a chance to prove it's worth.

  • Hello Guys,

    I Kindly request you to take a look at these complaints and take action



    It will be a great support Microsoft would be giving to their early adopters



  • EvilT1
    5 Posts

    HTC HD7 o2 UK have just sent out NoDo

    took just over and hour to update, copy n paste works real nice and easy but can only copy the full txt in txt messages not just individual words but i neva cared for copy n paste, resuming seems alot faster and twin blades and ilomilo loads alot faster.

    where's my update is a useless table as it updates once a week. O2 HD7 UK NoDo OUT NOW BABY YEEEEHAAAA!!!!

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    Just to clarify when you swipe to the right, make sure its in the word window area - hope that helps

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    @Martin - You can repaste

    After you paste something if you want to repaste the same thing swipe to the right and it brings up the clipboard click on the clipboard and it will paste again - , it may be awkward at first but it makes sense and it works well

  • I finally got the notice a week or so ago that an update was available for my T-Mobile HD7.  Once the update was installed I was disapointed to find it was only the laughingly named "February" update.  I waited with anticipation for the next update, the cruely named "March" update, which would give me some missing very basic functionality.  And waited. And waited.  Finally, the Boss updated his AT&T Samsung Focus using Chris Walshie's tool and I decided to get while the getting was good.  So yesterday I updated.  Nice.  Today I see Chris' tool is no longer available.  It's impressive that an independent programmer can do in a day what the collective might of Microsoft and T-Mobile cannot.  It looks like the response by the bigs has been to play the heavy.  Apple delivers not only new OS features every year but a significantly improved device.  In 6 months MS can't deliver a copy and paste update?  Some people in Redmond need to be fired (starting with Mr. Ballmer).

  • I am still getting used to not using a stylist with this copy and paste feature and not really liking how it works atm would hope to see more options for copy and paste like the ability to re-paste.

  • Help!! I am trying to access Market Place from my HTC HD2 Windows Phone 6.5 after hard resetting my phone, but I cant access the marketplace from any of my Windows ID acounts. A msg. is shown saying Error: Marketplace couldn't connect to the windows Live ID service. PLease try again later.What is the cause and how to fix it..Plz dont tell me delete cookies and cash. I told you that i just formatted it.Thanks For Ur Solutions.

  • The whole experience of acquiring a Windows Phone 7 device has not only been disappointing but humiliating. I have been a Windows Mobile Phone users since the HTC 8125 was released and later to the 8925. Never did I fathom how far technology would progress. I skipped getting a windows 6.5 phone because I wanted to get the best and went I found out that there would be a Windows Phone 7 I was completely ecstatic. I loved my AT&T Tilt phone and was biased to upgrade because even though it was outdated it worked great! I am a Windows Mobile Power User. I am constantly looking for apps that get it done as well as ways to make the phone work more efficiently.  I believed that the Windows Phone 7 would give me the type of experience I have been used to for a number of years but with a new and improved spin. One way or another it fell short.

    With the lack of promised updates for this Windows Phone. I have regretted purchasing this handset from about the second week of owning it. I love being able to push the limits of running multiple apps, copy and editing documents among other things and this phone has sucked in that arena. So bad to the point that I almost went back to my old phone because at least I could edit document, sync my e-mail, all while streaming music. My whole perception of Microsoft and AT&T as innovators in the realm of cell phone technology has completely changed. I will think twice next time I decide to upgrade to a new phone. Windows Phone 7 was supposed to be innovative but with the lack of multi-tasking it's not much better than my AT&T Tilt let alone, many powerful Android Phones.

  • Just updated my At&t Samsung Focus using Chris Walshie's update tool and everything went very smoothly. I'm glad the devs are looking out for us because, while NoDo is a non-story as far as new features are concerned, the NoDo update is a necessity for the Marketplace. The Marketplace is smooth and fast and I've experieced no freezes or hangups. If anyone is still on the fence about using the tool, I've  written about my experience at:


  • ibmckay
    8 Posts

    @ScubaDog: Thank you for that wonderful news! I'll pay close attention to the instructions. Like you said, there will be more rolling updates in the future, so if we're always on the tail end, and as sad is this may seem, then we might as well do it ourselves.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @ibmckay:  Yes, you can use the workaround.  Be advised that the rolling updates aren't anywhere near done, yet, so you have the option to continue waiting until your carrier finally pushes the updates out.  But the workaround works find, you just have to pay very close attention to the instructions and be patient.  The workaround does nothing special to your phone other than simply get the updates on your device.  Once you are updated you will simply look like an up to date phone on your carrier's network.  If your carrier gets its act together for future updates you'll get those normally.  Otherwise, I won't be surprised if we don't go through this little exercise again.

    So: AT&T, you'd better be paying attention here.  Here I am, a week later, with NoDo on my Focus and loving it.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    For @u_littleripper and others: You haven't received the update YET.  Quit acting like the deployment of the update is finished and you were left eating dust.  You simply don't have your facts straight.  NOBODY is giving Microsoft OR the carriers a pass on how badly this process is broken.  BUT, the homebrew community, coupled with the persistent communication of the user-base, has resulted in a series of methods to work around the failings of the update process to help everyone get the updates sooner rather than later.  I'm convinced that the tool Microsoft kicked out a couple of days ago was a direct response to the timing problem and a semi-clandestined knod to those wanting to use homebrew tools to bypass the even-worse-failing carriers.  If you think about it, that was pretty shrewd (if late).  They technically aren't violating an agreement with the carriers if the "purpose" for the tool is to fix a timing issue that would show up on some phones anyway.

    And, personally, I have no sympathy for those who are stuck because they're using a Mac.  Eeeewwww.  You couldn't GIVE me a Mac.  8P

  • ibmckay
    8 Posts

    I've waited long enough for the updates, having bought two Samsung Focus phones last November 8, the day the phones were released to the United States. My only experience with updating smartphones was through the carrier. Can I use the ChevronWP7 NoDo update? What becomes of my phone then? Will it accept carrier updates in the future, if there are any updates from AT&T?

  • It's already April 5 and I still haven't received my update yet. I gave you guys a week and you still haven't delivered. I'm currently selling my HTC Mozart. This freaking thing is useless. You guys never made it convenient for us users to get the update. I can't even use the "hack" updates because I'm using the Windows Phone Connector for  Mac. This is sad. I HATE you Windows Phone 7 team. I guess it's back to the iPhone for me.

  • quite frankly i am apalled by this. I am on Telstra - i got the HTC 7 Mozart the day it was released here in Australia. I have waited paitently as update have come and gone and I have recieved nothing! How would you like to be promised something that doesnt actually turn up. Ms has been apologetic but I dont care for apologies i care for actions! The where is my phone update page provided some information but since then Telstra has published a web page saying they havnt even recieved the update for testing! What is going on!? I have been very patient and have put up with a phone that flashes and freezes at least once a day. a phone that has a push notification service that doesnt work, a phone that promised so much but has actually delivered so little. I published this with the belief i would see voice search and that addresses and phone numbers would be clickable like they are in the US but no, i am left with a phone that has no copy and paste and no say to say a number or look up an address that comes in a txt msg or email. Pick up your game, get onto Telstra and other operators that are holding back the update and get on with this. I have a product that does not function as it was promised and have no-one to share my opinion with other than tech blogs. MS needs to be open and allow a conversation with its customers and give operators the training to be able to answer questions about the phone.

    VERY VERY Unhappy.

  • curtk
    37 Posts

    If the new tools that let this get done are basically a 'wink and a nod' to get the carriers out of the way, it actually gives me a really good feeling about MS right now. Knowing that they know what the problem is is a good sign. Plus the carriers can't really complain without admitting to their complete and utter failure (yes, again we're looking at you AT&T).

  • dkb1898
    167 Posts

    Yup, I just updated Samsung Focus, no issues...update is nice, though I think people are exaggerating the speed increases. It's a decent bump for app startup and resume, nothing earth shattering, but that's really about it speed wise.

  • Hypi
    4 Posts

    YAY the workaround works with my omnia 7!!!! yes...no more waiting :D

  • I'm glad to hear that now more of you are finally getting "NoDo" with that new work around. Definitely some good news!

  • dkb1898
    167 Posts

    @Wurstsalat - This was Microsoft's way of letting us get around AT&T, it uses a new version of the MS tools they just released. I'm sure there is a lot of "AT&T is a bunch of morons with Apple stock" going around the WP Team when they are letting off steam over a few beers.

  • Pretty sure this was not an accident.  MS released the tool kit that contained the keys to get this done.  They knew it would come out and shut the people that care up.  Damage control pure and simple. With that i am now shutting up.

  • Dear MS,  its just a shame! An 3rd party developer has to bring the official(!) update which everyone want to everyone and it works flawless.


    This is a good update experience and not "maybe there is an update, maybe in a few weeks or months"

    Give this guy your job, he is doin it much better than you ("My job is to get us on the right path and deliver them.")

  • curtk
    37 Posts

    @edm this just proves that either through incompetence, willful foot dragging, or technical mismangement, AT&T is incapable of running this process. MS, you need to get these people out of the loop and protect your product. Just declare a no fly zone over AT&T and protect us :-).

  • edm
    27 Posts

    Well, I just received a call from AT & T (I have talked to them several time, and so far only response has been "let me see what I can find out"), and the lady told me with complete certainty that AT & T is NOT conducting any testing on any Windows Phone & updates, that this is all being done by Microsoft.  She said they are waiting to hear from MS and will let me know when she does.  I specifically asked which update she was talking about to avoid confusion with "mango", but she replied "NoDo".

    This is insane.  I don't believe her for a second.

    Anybody from Microsoft - Can you PLEASE clarify this?

  • Yes the "new" work around works on my ATT Focus.  Thanks for the "leak" MS.

  • curtk
    37 Posts

    So, anyone try this yet? This looks promising and will make me feel good about giving the finger to AT&T: blog.walshie.me/.../so-who-wants-windows-phone-updates-like-right-now

  • curtk
    37 Posts

    @ScubaDog - I don't necessarily think that a power user option for upgrading to new releases would fracture the ecosystem, since the platform is pretty tightly controlled in terms of h/w specs (unlike Android) they can get away with a lot more. Plus if you are looking at the update process, I think it would be safe if when MS signs off on it and releases to power users that many would upgrade (without a lockdown, it makes it possible for people to choose to smoothly update). This is really not all that different than having all these carriers on all different schedules. There are now three updates and the base version of the OS in circulation--locking down through the carriers doesn't seem to be helping prevent that. So why not just formalize it and allow the user the freedom to choose to upgrade?

    I still, strongly believe that MS should wrest control of this from the carriers and do the updates like Apple. That actually *would* prevent the kind of fragmentation we're seeing. In markets where the carriers control this, fragmentation occurs (Android, WP7). In cases where the phone OS vendor controls it (Apple) it doesn't. Lesson learned. The carriers cannot be trusted to ever act in the best interest of their customers, this is obvious and we've seen this over and over and over. Fire hot. Sky blue. Carriers bad.

  • @and87 idk what you all mad about, first of if YOU would read the articles I've posted they're all either about the update process or windows phone in general. Im giving the people here some info that the MS people haven't communicated back to us or aren't being clear enough about. No one is force to read em, just scroll below to the next post.

    Now this link might interest alot of you still waiting on the update: www.zdnet.com/.../12182

  • Help!! I am trying to access Market Place from my HTC HD2 Windows Phone 6.5 after hard resetting my phone, but I cant access the marketplace from any of my Windows ID acounts. A msg. is shown saying Error: Marketplace couldn't connect to the windows Live ID service. PLease try again later.What is the cause and how to fix it..Plz dont tell me delete cookies and cash. I told you that i just formatted it.Thanks For Ur Solutions.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @Captiosus and @zcommando....you folks are just fools.  You clearly can't comprehend the situation beyond your emotional investment.  I've laid out a logical description of what we know so far.  At no point did you ever see me make a statement that Microsoft had no part to play.  But let me simplify it for you.  It seems clear that Microsoft is responsible for the following: A) releasing a product that didn't have all the features it SHOULD have to at least be equal to the competition; B) making a horrible agreement with carriers giving them control over the updates; C) not thoroughly testing all devices with the OEMs to make sure variations in firmware/hardware were accounted for; D) communicating the honest facts about what was going on, who was responsible for what and why.  The carriers--and I can only speak with absolute conviction regarding AT&T (but have seen indications from others under other carriers)--latched onto the agreement that allowed them to block an update AND to slow subsequent ones, hiding behind "we're testing for your benefit" as their mantra.  Their incompetence in knowing what their own divisions are doing, much less being able to communicate to customers what is happening and why is worse than Microsoft.  And, clearly, AT&T doesn't mind losing customers over this---and they do so with indignation.  Maybe AT&T didn't tell YOU they were the premier partner for WP7, but they certainly marketed it to ME that way (not that I cared, because I just wanted the phone).  MS publicized multiple updates--and it's had two so far, with at least one other to come--but the carriers are definitely a contributor to the speed of updates.  Once MS gave control to the carriers that was it.  @Captiosus, you emblazoned your "obvious question", and missed my whole point about why carriers should never be allowed to be part of the process to begin with.  Though they can't modify the OS, they CAN and DO submit their own apps.  Their testing process can (and has) result in simply saying, "Uh, ya know, Microsoft, we don't think we're entirely pleased with the update, so we're kicking it back for you to polish some more".   THAT'S the kind of game they can play.  As I said, Microsoft's mistake was handing a critical control mechanism to carriers.  Once that control was given, the FAULT AND RESPONSIBILITY BECOMES THE CARRIERS.  You can choose to believe what you want.  I've been justifiably critical of Microsoft in all this without being stupid about it.  At this point, those of you who have made up your minds, just get rid of your phones and go with iPhone or Android.  You're no longer productive in this discussion.

  • and87
    2 Posts

    @ ThaRebeliouZ  , SADIST. best word to describe, talk about your experience with phone so far, and not copy some darn article I'am sure you havent read that yourself as well have you? now if you love android go get one. or have you been asking MS to buy you one?

  • and87
    2 Posts

    No updates yet for Open market / Unbranded Phones. @ anyone care to reply

  • "Windows Phone 7 in 2012: What should we expect?

    We all know by now that Mango is most probably going to be the only major Windows Phone 7 update coming out this year (and that’s if it isn’t delayed until early 2012) and the changes it brings have for the most part already been announced. But there are still a few surprises that Microsoft hasn’t talked about yet that should be unveiled in a week during the MIX11 opening Keynote. It’s highly probable that there’s going to some talk about the upcoming NFC support and also new APIs for developers but I’m personally not expecting anything major in terms of new features.

    February 2012 will mark the second anniversary of Windows Phone 7 ‘s unveiling and if assume that we know most of the features that will come with Mango it is safe to say that Microsoft didn’t really impress anybody since the operating systems official launch in October 2010. Sure, Multi-Tasking and an HTML5 compliant browser are great additions but they are also just helping the platform to play catch-up with the competition that already supports these features. What Microsoft needs to do is to introduce things that are new and not seen anywhere else. One can argue that the Metro UI is already a big differentiator but that’s already something of the past. The UI/UX wow factor is now gone. Microsoft has also yet to fix many of the shortcomings of the current implementation of its services in the platform shipping today.  I’ve already discussed most of them in my Windows Phone 7 review but it should be noted again and again that Bing Maps is light years behind Google Maps and Google Navigation and that even Bing Search on WP7 is way behind its iPhone version in terms of features. The quick integration of Nokia’s Ovi Maps into Bing Maps is going to be one of the most important tasks that Microsoft will have to accomplish if it hopes to compete with Android. Redmond has no time to waste in this department especially when you consider the fact that WP7 users outside of the US have an even worst mapping and search experience.

    Another thing that Microsoft will have to talk about in the coming months if future hardware and SoC support. As I said a couple of weeks ago; Windows Phone 7 doesn’t desperately needs more powerful hardware but on the other hand OEMs have to sell devices not only based on their software capabilities but also on their hardware. It is going to be a tough job in the coming months for HTC to market its upcoming Windows Phone 7 handsets (the HTC Prime and HTC Ignite), which are supposedly powered by the relatively low-end MSM7230, next to the HTC Pyramid and EVO 3D powered by the MSM8X60 or even all the other “mid-range” MSM8255 powered devices like the Incredible S and Desire S. Microsoft will have to come up with new chassis that cover a vast array of price points but also improve on what’s currently available, which means more powerful SoCs (besides the improved Adreno 205 GPU the MSM7230 is for the most part identical to the currently used QSD8250). This is arguably going to be the trickiest part of the platform’s evolution; Nokia want’s to ship tons of cheaper Windows Phone devices while the other OEMs would want to improve on the end-user experience by packing more power-full hardware and all this would have to be done without causing too much fragmentation.

    There’s also the question of the future Kernel powering Windows Phone 8. Some people are starting to suggest that Microsoft will use the upcoming Windows 8 ARM Kernel as the basis of WP8 but this would be another major task that Microsoft will have to handle in a relatively short time. It would also seem rather illogical to use a totally new and untested Kernel in such a short notice especially after starting Windows Phone from scratch just 2 years ago. We will have to listen closely to what Microsoft is going to say at MIX11 because there will probably be several hints that will either confirm or infirm the move to the Win 8 kernel.

    I personally think that it’s safe to say that Windows Phone 7’s future is still for the most part a mystery that will hopefully be unveiled in the coming weeks or months. Microsoft is not in the best position right now and Nokia’s partnership will only be successful if the integration of Nokia’s IP is done as fast as possible and if the Finnish mobile juggernaut also starts shipping Windows Phones in volume in the first half of 2012.

    So what do you do you hope to see in Windows Phone 7.5 / 8 ?"


  • talking talking and nothing changed....

    new bing features in good old europe? I dont see them, not on the phone (turn by turn navigation), not on desktop

    custom ring tones?

    the impressive copy&paste? Rofl, can just mark complete words and not only a few letters, this is impressive c&p?

    "But it was clear from your comments that many of you want a better idea of when to expect your update. Is it on the way—or weeks away?" -> "Where’s my phone update?" is the answer? Your joking? "Stage 3: Delivering update: it might take several weeks" You see the answer? There is no answer on the customers question, just bullshit talking.

    Microsoft laughed at the iphone and for real, i dont like the iphone but apple can do a worldwide update with "no" problem...

    Look at google maps on phone, us an europa users have the same experience....bing maps on phone? Any europe user with turn by turn navigation?

    You wounder why you failing? You are to slow, much to slow and your "answers" are just verbiage....you say you listen? I say you dont! All customers are pissed off on the update process but you dont just deliver the update to all supported devices, you still sleeping...

  • "iOS vs. WinPho: 2 Visions of the Future

    By Chris Maxcer


    Part of the ECT News Network

    03/31/11 5:00 AM PT

    Could iOS really be edged out in smartphone market share by latecomer Windows Phone? And could it happen as soon as 2015? Researchers at IDC seem to think so. They've forecast that WinPho will be second only to Android in worldwide market share in four years. Here are five reasons that might not be such an insane prediction ... and five ways Apple could prove IDC completely wrong.

    If two large companies create a marriage out of desperation and throw in US$1 billion dowry, can it not only survive but also thrive? According to a recent IDC forecast report, the answer is yes: The Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT) and Nokia (NYSE: NOK) sweetheart deal in which Nokia will build smartphones running Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 will result in a second-place market share position by 2015, eclipsing Apple's (Nasdaq: AAPL) iOS.

    Android, which is the projected smartphone OS market share leader in 2011, will continue its rampage and own 45.4 percent of the market share in 2015 -- according to IDC, of course.

    IDC reports that the 2011 smartphone market share will be 39.5 percent for Android, 20.9 percent for Symbian, 15.7 percent for iOS, 14.9 percent for BlackBerry, and 5.5 percent for Windows Phone 7/Windows Mobile.

    But by 2015, the percentages shift to 45.4 for Android, 20.9 for Windows Phone 7, 15.3 for iOS, 13.7 for BlackBerry, and Symbian will be essentially dead with less than 1 percent market share.

    Talk About Stirring the Fanboy Pot!

    The publicly reported portions of the IDC forecast isn't particularly detailed. While my gut reaction was to laugh it off as utter nonsense, I've come to realize that IDC's view here represents at a least a possible future. Here's why:

    1.Windows Phone 7 might not be half bad. While it's hard to find real sales figures and uptake for the Microsoft mobile OS, I've seen a number of reviews that grudgingly acknowledge that it's pretty good. Some Microsoft-focused professionals, of course, are already happy to become "fanboy" influencers. For iPhone users, there's nothing compelling enough to generate a switch, but enticing iOS (or even Android users) isn't necessary for Windows Phone 7 to make big share gains.

    2.Microsoft understands how important a mobile OS is. After a slumber, it finally seems as if Microsoft understands that it needs a viable (and popular) mobile phone OS. The $1 billion-plus deal with Nokia nails down a quality manufacturer that Microsoft can count on, and there's some evidence that Microsoft is willing to spend real marketing dollars to push its OS. On Monday night's episode of "Castle" on ABC, for instance, not only did Microsoft sponsor a pretty good ad, but it also had yet another product placement.

    3.Lots of growth available. IDC predicts that smartphone vendors will ship 450 million units in 2011 compared to 303 million in 2010. That means there are lots of new customers out there. In the burgeoning smartphone market, Microsoft will be like a game show contestant entering a wind tunnel full of cash. Opportunity is out there, moving, but entirely catchable.

    4.Nokia may be a very powerful wildcard. Never mind that Nokia was recently failing to capture even a sliver of U.S. smartphone mindshare -- despite producing some of the world's first and best smartphones. Today and tomorrow are new days. Nokia has a worldwide presence, relationships with carriers, and I'm guessing the company sees the writing on the wall and is hungry. To survive, they'll need to forget past successes and do everything better than ever before.

    5.Business integration. Four years is a long time. Microsoft may come up with some seriously awesome business integration. I'm just saying, it's possible. And while the iPhone has "consumerized" IT departments, IT pros still think in business terms.

    On the Other Hand ...

    Now here's why I think the IDC report is just a possible reality ... and not even necessarily the most likely version of our smartphone future.

    1.Apple is a moving target. Face it, the company is an innovator. Apple doesn't always invent entirely new products, but Apple is damn good at reinventing them. In four years, we might think of our iPhone 4 as a kludgy little paperweight.

    2.Brand recognition and desire. Apple still has a heckuva lot of brand recognition and desire. Many Android phones aren't bought because the consumer wants Android. They're bought due to availability. The same will go for Windows Phone 7. A customer's carrier will offer the unit, they'll have pricing incentives, and the consumer will walk away with it. If Apple can offer the iPhone to more outlets, consumers will choose it. The Apple brand is iconic and recognizable. Even the product placements on "Castle" for Windows Phone 7 ... it's hard to recognize the hardware and even the software as anything special. That's rarely a problem for Apple, and Apple knows how to keep that rolling. White earbud headphones ... case in point is all.

    3.New models of iPhone. If Apple can either offer very cheap acquisition costs for iPhones as feature-rich as the iPhone 4 -- AT&T's (NYSE: T) $49 iPhone 3GS is pretty good, but not good enough -- Apple can pick up a lot of the feature phone market as those customers naturally upgrade. Offer an iPhone nano, and boom, the numbers game will change.

    4.The power of the iOS ecosystem. Sure, Apple is only a niche player in the PC world, but it's a dominator in the tablet world. In addition, its smartphone and iOS devices work with PC users. So the power of PC operating system integration with a smartphone is becoming devalued, which tends to mitigate the benefit of PC market share. Meanwhile, the iOS App Store is still much better than competing app stores -- particularly for regular consumers. Will feature phone users gravitate toward the ease of the iOS world? If the price is right, I think they might.

    5.Apple is slowly becoming better with businesses. Apple's enterprise plays have been driven by consumers. By 2015, might Apple start playing nice with the business world? If Apple made enterprise-friendly moves or a special business iPhone, it might change IDC's forecast.

    Another Way to Read IDC's Forecast

    There is another way to read IDC's forecast, and it has nothing to do with storm clouds for Apple: Windows Phone 7 will only make stunning gains through the help of Nokia as it eats up previous Symbian market share. And come 2015, Windows Phone 7 may simply have market share ... but only manage to hang onto a sliver of mind share pie. Either way, even if Apple's market share actually drops half a percent on the road to 2015, Apple will still enjoy increasing iOS smartphone sales, and presumably, maintain excellent profitability.

    Besides, if Apple maintains a niche position, hardcore Apple fans will get to keep their identities without becoming quite so mainstream, which might actually be the most healthy scenario for Apple and Apple lovers in 2015"


  • @Ahmedicine There is a way for putting wp7 on HD2 altough not an oficial one. I know people who have wp7 on their wp7. Look at xda forums, and look at HD2. This is not supported by HTC or Microsoft however.

  • Captiosus -> When I said "manufacture", I did not necessarily mean manufacture in it's strict sense.  Apple controls everything that goes in the device, compared to MS who could not dictate what goes inside the OEMs devices as long as the features they want are there.

  • As critical as i have been of this entire Update Process, i'm not gonna jump ship just yet. I'm going to actually ride this one out till the end of the year hoping there will be significant progress with WP7.

    One of the reasons i decided to do the LG Unbranding hack and the Foreign server NoDo hack was to prove that Carrier "Testing" phases are completely useless specially since alot of us that managed to get NoDo running did not run into any problems or abnormal behavior with our phones. Their so called "Quality Control" testing phase needs to be explained in full detail after this.

  • So I called and opened a ticket with the AT&T Office of the VP of Mobility,

    1-800-498-1912 (public information)

    After speaking with one of the representatives who could not provide a reason for the delay in testing the updates or any information about the updates on when they (AT&T) would be done testing (this person was even unaware of the where’s my phone update? Page) they were more than willing to give me a full refund for the purchase of a Samsung Focus almost 5 months after the sale.  This representative did speak with their technical department on the issue. (Of course they are going to try and stick me with the “agreement” for cancelation).

    This behavior should not only concern MS and Samsung but other AT&T partners as well…

    (I would provide an edited copy of the email from AT&T but I just got done reading the full signature block)  I have 7 business days from 04/01 to email the phone and other purchased items to their offices in Sacramento CA.

    I explained to this representative that many customers have “un-branded” there phones to get the update on not only the Focus but the other devices from AT&T and have reported 0 issues after the update. I also provided this rep several links including forums on the AT&T website of customers performing this action.

    If this AT&T office has so little influence over other departments of it mobile division that it cannot provide an ETA on the updates testing completion, I weep for T-Mobile customers if the purchase by AT&T is allowed.

    I hope that MS is paying attention to this, since a partner is willing to drop a customer (early adopter) and never look back.

    So on April 11th, 2011 if I have not received or seen any traction on the update now in AT&T hands I will no longer be an AT&T customer nor I suspect a user of the WP7 platform. (I do/did have high hopes for the WP7 platform when I purchased it).

    BTW the representative also informed me this was  not the 1st time they had worked this issue, but was sure that other representatives had also encountered customers with this request.  Of course this does not include all the customers that called AT&T’s regular support number.

    I understand that if AT&T loses one customer, they will not care; however, speaking openly on the subject is the only way to affect change.

  • MS is all talk and no action to show....... very disappointed...I think MS should offer people refunds on the phone if they cannot deliver things on time as promise. ... Looks like I have wasted my money and maybe it is time to sell the WP7 and get an Andorid phone.

  • The whole idea of Releasing 2 updates a year when you're so far behind in features is beyond me. Add to that an updating process that is a complete mess and then Carriers holding back updates for "testing" (for I don't know what exactly).

    People want their updates and we don't wanna go through all this waiting/hacking BS to get them. You gotta keep the early adopters happy if you want this platform to succeed, Microsoft. Banking on Nokia to save your Platform is not the right strategy, keeping your consumers happy is. People aren't taking WP7 that serious right now because like many of us here, We just don't have any clue of what the WP Team's future  plans for the platform are.

    We want to know if every other update is going to be as problematic? We want to know if we're going to get more bug fixes and other small features added in the long wait till "Mango"? We wanna know what's being done to keep expanding the ecosystem? etc

    The summer stretch is going to be crucial for WP's survival, I hope Microsoft and the WP Team makes the right moves to build some momentum, cause right now all we have left is many phones without updates and many questions left to be answered.

  • @ScubaDog. I did not say ATT was the premier network, MS did.  I did not say carries would not own the update process, MS did.  I did not promise regular updates, MS did.  I did not promise updates multiple times MS did.  ATT has promised me nothing other than a bill.  So as far as I can see its a MS problem.  I had a focus on day 1.  I love this UI and I can see a ton of potential with wp7.  I am a IT professional working primarily with MS products.  I own stock in MS.  I WANT this to succeed.  But... I need this device to improve fast.  I am growing weary of grabbing my girlfriends Captivate  (updated to 2.2) to do things because my phone cannot. April 15th is the date, clock is ticking.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    Anyway 581 posts and it really seems Microsoft doesn't care. So I'm done, and will just leave my closing thoughts to reiterate:

    The problems aren't the carriers, stop passing the buck, Microsoft. You made update promises and then GAVE the carriers, who have no interest or need to be involved with the update process, the ability to screw you - and us - with the update scheduling and delivery. That's NOT the carrier's fault, it's YOURS. How come your own VP talks about running AT&T's own testing suite Microsoft can hand a full compliment of testing data to AT&T, yet AT&T acts like they have no idea what you're talking about?

    Why? Because the carriers don't give a good god damn about you Microsoft. Learn this. Visit the stores. Your products are shoved into the corners, buried amongst other phones that no one goes to. Sprint and T-Mobile both have one offering, and they're buried by their Droid phones. AT&T has 3 offerings and they've already reduced two of them down to near-free. Verizon will have their one offering in 13 days and do you HONESTLY believe they're going to give it any kind of attention when they have both the iPhone and the HTC Thunderbolt competing head-to-head right now?

    In six months, AT&T users will probably still be asking where NoDo is, just like Xperia 10a users are still asking where Droid 2.1 is. And when Mango hits, this whole dumb process is going to start again.

    Speaking of Droid, I bought into this platform because it wasn't going to be like Android. Yet here we are, with the EXACT SAME same update stupidity as Android even though your design model was similar to Apple's. Are you scared of the carriers? If so, grow a set, because this platform is already dying. Developers are jumping ship already, WP7 has become a joke on nearly every tech site, and I HIGHLY doubt we're going to even see a SINGLE NOKIA phone running WP7 because, at the current rate, this platform will be pushing up daisies for good long before Nokia has their first offering ready to go.

    I had been compiling a list, between posters here and the official Facebook WP7 page, of reasonable, updates that WP7 needs to be on par with Android 2.3.3 and iOS4. I gave up after 3 pages of bullet points. THREE PAGES. That wouldn't be such a big deal - if there were constant updates. But as we now see, updates are going to come maybe once or twice per year, and only if the carriers don't jerk you (and us) around.

    Good luck with getting this platform anywhere beyond where it already is unless you're willing to get some intestinal fortitude and rein it in. If you're not willing, well then, I hope you enjoy watching yet another Microsoft platform wither away and die.

    I love my phone but I hate this corporate stupidity.

    With that, I'm done on this topic.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @ScubaDog - Because, and you might refuse to admit it, this is MICROSOFT'S MESS.


    Stop buying into all the pieces that this is somehow all the carrier's fault and answer the simple question in front of you:


    I don't care if you're a SixSigma Black Belt - to claim that this isn't Microsoft's problem is amazingly wrong. And if you think what they're handing out is "information", then your definition of "information" and mine is very different. This isn't information - this is buck passing. They HAVE NOT, in any response, given any concrete statements. They have repeatedly passed the buck to carriers. They "clarify" that "delivering" might not mean you'll see either update any time soon.. and why?

    The limited Microsoft comments on this topic have not been information - they have been MISINFORMATION. They have been caught in their own corner between statements they made 5 months ago and the reality of the situation and THEY STILL REFUSE to jump in front of it and take the bull by the horns like they should.

    Any piece that continues to support this misguided belief that everything is FINE with Microsoft while everything is WRONG with the carriers is nothing but pure propaganda FLUFF. The same kind of garbage that came out in print magazines years ago when everything was "fine" with Windows Millennium Edition, and everything was wrong with [OEMs/Hardware Manufacturers/End Users]".

  • @ Scubadog...I really appreciate your kind response. But what I do really disagree with is 90% of what had been written by you. If there's logic with your response, then we expect iphone 3GS users to throw their phones away and buy iphone 4, or Android 1.6 mobiles users do the same...& the truth is none of these did that..Instead, they connected their phones to their laptops and updated their phones to newer versions (new updates are still being released from time to time)  & they are satisfied with these phones and apps included with. Let's forget Apple and Android...Nokia phones & even the simplest of had have software-update programs for many years...Briefly, if microsoft is still unable to find ways to satisfy its customers, it is better to stop dealing with phones' operating systems & concentrate on PC softwares. That's my point of view and definitely my first & last windows-based smart phone will be the one which I carry right now (HTC HD2).

  • Iskandr
    3 Posts

    I gave up waiting for NoDo from AT&T and started toying with all the different methods on XDA (minus the Hungarian method) until I got one that worked and my phone updated.  Great update by the way.  I appreciate what it has done for the OS's overall stability and speed.  Too bad the delivery has been completely jacked.  As I said earlier, I will not continue with WP7 if I have to jump through hoops for updates.  This process needs a turn around.  I enjoyed toying with ROMs on my old WM6.5 phone because it was the easiest way to get updates.  My understanding of WP7 was that this sort of toying around was not going to be needed, that updates would be timely, and come often.  This doesn't seem like it will be the case.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @Zcommando, that's just silly.  Giving Microsoft an ultimatum?  Come on.  Seriously?  Have you not been keeping up here?  The delay has been, with limited exception, THE CARRIERS.  If you look at the changelog on NoDo you'll see that the original version was ready in January....but carriers weren't ready.  Then it was attempted to rollout in Feb but that's when they discovered issues with the updater.  After a fix in Feb and again in Mar, plus the creation of a pre-update, it's now rolling out ----- BUT ON THE CARRIERS' SCHEDULE, not Microsoft.  Let me point out, though, that the problems that forced modifications to NoDo were OEM-based, not carrier-based.  In other words, it's clear that some testing was missed between M$ and the OEMs.  Had those been caught back in January then I'll bet you the only thing that they would have needed was the pre-update.  Again, at that point the carriers were at fault.  So, complain to your carrier.  Period.  The folks at Microsoft have finally come clean (for the most part) on their issues and, as far as I'm concerned, I'll take them at their word until the next update comes out (whether that's Mango or some interrim update).  I will, however, continue to attack AT&T until they get the heck out of the way and let this update business be completely between the OEMs and Microsoft.  I don't pay AT&T to provide me software.  All I want from them is CONNECTIVITY....just like RoadRunner.  

    And, for @Captiosus, I'm not sure why you called the Wired piece propaganda.  Coupling that with what's been seen on Channel 9 and the responses here, I think it describes the situation.  Note that, while a huge fan of WP7 and more steadfast supporter, I've certainly not shied away from criticizing Microsoft where I truly thought they blew it.  But I was at least honest enough to call them on the things they clearly had control over....like INFORMATION.  Read my post after I updated to NoDo.  I believe I was accurate and fair.

    Finally, to @CurtK, I don't know if a "power user" option would necessarily be wise.  I'm not ruling it out, but I am highly supportive of not fragmenting the platform.  That's one of the things I truly did not like about the PPC & WM platform.  It completely depended upon whether OEMs wanted to do an update plus whether or not the hardware (which had VERY minimal standards).  Consequently, it's why I feel Android is just stupid.  Conversely, Apple locks the whole thing down so, while they own stability and integration cradle-to-grave, you have zero flexibility or choice.  WP7 bridges the middle ground here.  And, by the way, Android finally is seeing the folly of a totally open platform, so they have only just begun yanking in the carriers to defragment the devices.  You might yet convince me of a "power user" option, but I still think the best solution is to tell carriers "hands off".

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @Ahmedicine, how long to you expect a company to continue to support old platforms?  Until Windows Phone 7 came out I still relied quite heavily on my Dell Axim X3i running Windows Mobile 2003se (and beautfully, I might add).  I did NOT, however, expect continued support when they went to WM5 or 6 or 6.5.  It simply didn't make sense.  It's not about "caring".  It's about what is viable platform versus investment.  WM6.5 is just about as matured a platform as it's going to get.  If you can't see that, then I'm afraid you're just going to go through life disappointed.  Let me tell you, I was quite satisified with WM2k3, so much so that I couldn't justify paying $500 for a newer Windows Mobile device.  The trade off was accepting that no further development was going to happen.  You now find yourself in that same boat.  At some point the buggy whip manufacturers had to go out of business or change their products once the automobile took hold.  Now, it may be that Microsoft will put out a few more tweaks or security upgrades or something like that, but it's pure silliness to expect them to continue to support what, for all intents and purposes, will shortly be a dead platform.  The only thing standing in the way is the BIG gap in enterprise support/compliance on WP7.  To be honest, I suspect that Microsoft has zero designs to make WP7 usable in the corporate world--much less federal government.  We were using WM6 and 6.5 devices in our secured networks for  quite some time.  But there's no way WP7 will see that acceptance without a LOT of things happening.  So, be happy with what you have or move up to WP7.....or over to Android, which is as close to WM6.5 as you're going to get and keep modern.  Sorry.

  • "Windows Phone 7 updates progress, slowly

    Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 much-delayed software updates are progressing slowly, even as the company very publicly touts the platform's viability to app developers.

    AT&T customers who purchased a Windows Phone 7 smartphone: expect your long-awaited software updates to arrive in April. Maybe.

    According to Microsoft’s handy chart of Windows Phone 7 updates, three AT&T smartphones—the HTC surround, LG Quantum and Samsung Focus—have entered a “Testing” phase for both their February and March updates, with completion estimated for early April. After that, the devices will enter the “Scheduling” phase, which, according to Microsoft, “typically lasts 10 business days or less.”

    After that, the updates will be delivered to the smartphones—a process the company admits “might take several weeks.” But in theory, if everything proceeds rapidly, those devices could see their new software tweaks delivered before May.

    The February update is supposed to clear the way for future software updates, while the March “NoDo” update includes, in addition to some feature tweaks, the long-awaited cut-and-paste functionality.

    Ahead of its MIX11 conference, due to kick off April 12 in Las Vegas, Microsoft has taken to its public channels to tout Windows Phone as a viable platform for developers and consumers. A March 30 posting on The Windows Phone Developer Blog reads like a preview of the arguments Microsoft executives will likely make to developers at the conference, to convince them that Windows Phone will remain a suitable landing spot for their applications and services.

    Among them: that Windows Phone Developer Tools have proven enormously popular over the past year, having been downloaded some 1.5 million times. That the Windows Phone developer community boasts 36,000 members, and that the Windows Phone 7 ecosystem contains around 11,500 applications.

    Based on those numbers, a back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests one application published for approximately every 3.13 developers who signed onto AppHub. It also suggests that, out of the total Windows Phone Developer Tools downloads, less than 1 percent translated into a published application.  

    The “numbers are not bad, actually,” Al Hilwa, an analyst with IDC, wrote in a March 31 email to eWEEK. “I think developers gravitate towards offerings inside their ecosystems first, but if they feel that such ecosystems are dysfunctional, they might jump ship.”

    Microsoft already maintains a robust .NET/Windows and Microsoft tools ecosystem, he added, “So they are leveraging it well but have also created incentives to bring others from the outside, primarily ISVs who have developed Web, Apple or Android apps or games.”

    Hilwa’s March 30 research note to media, sent a few hours before the email conversation with eWEEK, suggested that Microsoft has surpassed certain application milestones “faster than Android did in its day, albeit it is easier to bring apps to a second- or third-mobile platform than the first time around.”

    Android apparently took 11 months to reach the 10,000-application milestone, something that took Windows Phone 7 around six months. On the consumer side of the equation, Microsoft has encountered speed bumps related to software updates for Windows Phone 7, which, in turn, has sparked some anger among early adopters. In the United States, two Windows Phone 7 devices—the Dell Venue Pro and HTC HD7—are currently in the delivery stage for the “NoDo” update."  


  • I ask microsoft to appreciate its customers who were blind when they bought a new mobile phone operated by windows mobile. I ask microsoft to work on new updates for 6.5 version and new apps for this version..WTF...Once I open MarketPlace by microsoft..I get disappointed and a little depressed by the few bad quality range of apps.

  • I need help, please!

    I have hTC HD2 windows phone 6.5 which is very disappointing. What all I want to know why microsoft keeps on neglecting 6.5 version of its new updates, apps and new plans..Is it because it doesnt appreciate its customers like other companies? It seems so, unfortunately. My question is...is the new update (copy & paste update) applicable to 6.5 version using Zune? If not as I expect, I am really thinking of throwing my phone in trash and buy an Android phone or iphone.

  • Vincent
    6 Posts

    I am finally after some hard work and effort trying out NoDo. The launching of applications after tombstoning is a nice boon. Copy and paste is OK. Now can we get to the bugs. I have yet to have a program fail to launch and require the phone to be rebooted. Fingers crossed.

  • www.pcworld.com/.../Crisis_expert_bashes_Microsoft_over_Windows_Phone_7_update_fiasco.html -

    "Crisis Expert Bashes Microsoft Over Windows Phone 7 Update Fiasco

    Microsoft needlessly botched getting timely updates for Windows Phone 7 to customers and antagonized some of its most loyal fans by not delivering on its promises, a crisis communication expert said today.

    "There are two kinds of crises, ones that you cannot anticipate, like a natural disaster, and those that you can," said Patrick Kerley, a senior digital strategist with Levick Strategic Communications, a Washington, D.C.-based crisis management firm."

  • theoaklandpress.com/.../doc4d93cd75f2484920464129.txt  - Windows Phone 7 smartphone operating system isn’t perfect, but still has goods to compete

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    That Wired piece is the biggest piece of "Apologist" propaganda I've read since people tried defending Windows Millennium - and anyone who has followed this blog knows what a load of bull it is.

  • "Microsoft Patching Up Windows Phone 7’s Ragged Update Process

    By Brian X. Chen  April 1, 2011  |  6:22 pm  |  Categories: Phones

    Microsoft’s first series of Windows Phone software “updates” have been a mess, to say the least.

    Some Windows Phone 7 customers can upgrade the software now. Some can get it later. And weeks ago, a few unlucky owners of a Windows Phone 7-powered Samsung phone bricked their handsets when they downloaded an update.

    What the hell’s going on?

    It turns out that delivering one substantial software update on multiple phones made by different manufacturers, on different carriers, isn’t a simple task at all, and Microsoft is still figuring out a solid process.

    Microsoft’s not alone. The smartphone industry is controlled by a tangled web of interests, with hardware manufacturers and carriers holding sway. While mobile operating system vendors like Google and Apple have managed to wrest some control from the carriers, their moves aren’t easily repeatable.

    Despite decades of experience delivering software updates for the PC platform, Microsoft is still learning the ropes in the mobile world.

    With the Windows-powered Samsung Focus, some phones got an error when trying to install a minor update that updated the update mechanism, according to a Microsoft representative. Yes, it was an update that changed the way that phones are updated.

    A technical glitch caused some phones to be interrupted in the middle of updating the update process. As a result, some Samsung Focus phones were bricked.

    After that initial snafu with the Focus, Microsoft decided to proceed more cautiously and “deliberately” with a major update called “NoDo,” which brings copy and paste to Windows phones.

    Some Windows Phone 7 handsets get to download the update now, while others have to wait. That’s partly because whenever a company such as Microsoft, Apple or Google wants to put out a software update, it has to allow the phone carrier to test the software on the network first for quality.

    Only after the testing is complete can Microsoft begin deploying the software updates to Windows Phone 7 customers, a spokesman told Wired. Microsoft posted a chart showing which updates are available for each Windows phone model.

    Notably, the chart lacks specific delivery dates.

    “This table is what Microsoft and its partners are comfortable with committing to right now,” the representative said.

    So, long story short, there were some technical difficulties with the first minor update, and now Microsoft is being careful to ensure the major update deploys properly, so the scheduling for now is inconsistent between devices.

    However, Microsoft said that after the smoke clears, Windows Phone customers can expect to receive updates more smoothly and evenly.

    It seems like a mess, but it’s understandable considering this is a brand-new phone platform that’s barely even been on the market for a few months. Keep in mind that Apple has also had issues tied to carriers and software. When the iPhone 3GS launched, some people who bought the device couldn’t activate their phones all weekend, and Apple’s e-mail to customers suggested it was an issue related to AT&T.

    With smartphones, many spinning plates are involved in pushing software updates — carriers, manufacturers and the software maker. When one plate shatters, everybody likes to point fingers at the software maker — in this case, Microsoft.

    It’s worth noting, however, that despite these early stumbles, Microsoft’s software update strategy appears to be less chaotic than Android’s.

    Android carriers and device manufacturers get to decide when they want to push out updates. As a result, many Android phones are running different versions of Android; some have cool features that the others don’t.

    That’s the problem with Google’s “open” strategy: It relinquishes control to the carriers and manufacturers, who aren’t always up to speed with Android. And indeed, it’s why Google has started reining in its manufacturing partners and exerting more control over the OS.

    With Windows Phone 7, Microsoft is still the party that gets to decide when each handset gets a software update, and ideally in the future they’ll all get it at the same time after initial network testing. We’ll just have to wait and see whether the update process gets better in the next year."



  • Anxiously awaiting the MIX11 announcements.

  • I want this platform to WIN in the smartphone wars. Please don’t let this new awesome platform die from all the bad publicity and false hopes. In my opinion, this is the BEST interface and a decent start to enter into the highly competitive smartphone market.  Start delivering timely and great updates to help improve the Windows Phone experience to the level us as consumers and sales reps expect.

  • Grrr... I can't even post the rest my comment. The site keeps saying, it posted, but nothing gets put here. Sigh.

  • It seems like copy and paste isn't working as well on this blog... Trying to put the rest of my comment in but it doesn't post. Seriously?

  • Dear (For lack of knowledge of who will be reading this) Microsoft

    I'm really pleased with the initial user interface and was quick to point out to all the naysayers how you were delivering flash support and various other features in a couple of months when apple took several years. However either this is a reflection of the difficulty of releasing such features or another issue. I don't really care. I was generally happy then I realised that others who had the same phone, network and were in the same region were already getting the update and I wasn't, for me that just seems stupid. Please fix it!!!!

  • (Sorry I am going to have to post this in three sections, it won't post otherwise) I sell ATT and am pushing the Windows Phone Product since the launch of the device because of all the high hopes that were promised. I love the OS and the experience, BUT with all these let downs from Microsoft and ATT with the upgrade status and false promises from the Microsoft Trainers/Company, it is making us as sales reps look BAD for giving false promises to our customers. For example, I have a customer that we relayed the info pass down from MS and now he is very upset that we sold him the phone with all these false promises and wants us to switch him to an iPhone which we originally sold him off of.

  • i mean, the suprise factor is good to new features that are inovative, or for a platform that is not behind trying to catch. MS has to give some hints and keep some suprises, a mix.

  • @James LIu they have to. They have to say at least partially that multi-tasking is coming, so people wont jump to other OS...

  • MiSahEL
    10 Posts

    @James LIu Very good point. Announce and deliver quickly. Still, kicking carriers out of the approval process would be a welcome option.

  • Another thing that Microsoft should learn from Apple's updates for their iOS. Don't announce what you guys will be doing in the FAR, FAR future. Apple tells what is coming in the next update then delivers within weeks.

  • curtk
    37 Posts

    I think the simplese solution is to have a 'power user' option officially sanctioned to allow people to do the upgrade on demand, regardless of carrier. Regular users can wait, but give us the choice. Kind of like the IE9 beta, let us take it first, then make it available as a requested download, then later push it out to all remaining. Was just looking over in the AT&T forums (while I was paying them their pound of flesh online) and they are clueless. I swear if Verizon or Sprint do this better I will bag AT&T as fast as I can. T-Mobile no longer an option as I'd be back in the same crappy situation in a year. I've been an AT&T customer for all of 5 months (I switched because of WP7), and I feel so stupid for not listening to all the warnings of how awful they actually are. My bad. Premiere partner, meh.

  • dkb1898
    167 Posts

    Yeah I think I fell for that :) Yeah WP doesn't need any more negative energy that it already has been getting. At the same time, us "grumpy" users, will also be it's greatest advocates because we very badly want it to kick the living crap out of the iPhone and Android.

  • curtk
    37 Posts

    Pretty sure that 'grumpiest users get upgrades first' article is an April's Fools joke. The amount of work to correllate posters and twitterers and their individual phones would be enormous.

    Not to mention it would actually *encourage* us to all whine more :-) (and I don't think anyone needs that, we're already a pretty grumpy group). I mean, I'm as pissed and am posting, but just think of how much more we'd have to complain if we were all competing for the whiniest user to get the upgrade!

  • dkb1898
    167 Posts

    If there is any truth to this guys, don't go this route...we really don't want you collecting our names, conferring with a carrier we can't stand and then setting us as high priority.


    Just give us the ability, through a setting in Zune, or on the phone itself, so say "Receive update as soon as it is available, and bypass rolling. Warning: This means you will be one of the first to receive the update, and if there are initial problems and we have to pull an update back you could be effected, yada yada" Kind of like with Windows Update there is an option to see beta software, etc..

  • MiSahEL
    10 Posts

    Tried GBK's trick with my Samsung Focus. Futile, as its not listed as "Scheduling" in regards to update availability. I'm just over all shocked at how Microsoft handed the keys to its platform to cellular carriers. Seriously, cell carriers do absolutely NOTHING quickly. The first thing Microsoft should have learned from Apple is that you do not give a third party the keys to your platform. I love my Focus, but that love is waning as more and more its becoming clear that Microsoft is not in control.

  • Today my local ATT store manager told me that ATT had a once in a life time early upgrade.  You are eligible for this after 6 months.  So MS you have until April 15th to get these updates to my Focus and address the memory card issue or its new phone for me.  And no I will not be back after you have figured it out.

  • KR
    503 Posts

    The hack update trick worked on my HTC HD7 from bell mobility and now I got the dam NoDo update.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    Now, see, @WP7User, I have to disagree that the MS WP7 team doesn't know what it's doing.  I think, for the most part, the DO know what they are doing.  I am absolutely convinced that the folks ABOVE them who worked the agreements with the carriers were GROSSLY in err.  I place almost all of the blocking/delay squarely on the backs of the carriers--primarly AT&T because they are the premiere partner.  As I've stated in previous posts, the most annoying mistake MS made in all this was not sharing the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in how this process REALLY works, who has been delaying and why we've had stop-and-start action going on.  It looks like they've heard us and are going to make that aspect better.  I love the OS so much I'm willing to give them the chance.  Sadly, they have a long way to go toward repairing the customer relationship.

  • wp7user
    14 Posts

    @GBK's trick worked on T-Mobile branded HTC HD7, too. Had to also disable update checking on the phone. Never received any notifications for the update on the phone for Feb date on Tuesday when Zune picked it up. Was resigned to the fact that I may have to wait for days or weeks for the March update notification after Eric's post yesterday (or was it on Wednesday) and Michael Strohs response below. However, Kudos to those who found the right trick to get the update on the phone legally. Again, it goes on to show that MS WP7 team does not what it's doing. There is no other explanation as to why we are not receiving the notifications on the phone. Eric, Michael shame on you for telling us to wait for days or weeks for the second update that I could have simply received two days back by disabling the update notifications on the phone and downloading it manually from Zune with these simple methods. Hope you have some learning from this fiasco by the time you're ready for Mango (if you're ever). In any case, as I said before, I am waiting for my Android which is in the mail now. I can't wait for flash and multitasking any more. What more, I can still play games (don't care about Xbox Live), and can still connect to my ssl sharepoint server and edit and save documents in browser, same as in WP7 as your Office Hub won't sync with the https sharepoint server. Big regret from WP7 purchase is that I paid $99 for an early upgrade to HD7 which is now available for a penny at certain places now when I was originally eligible for the upgrade.

  • curtk
    37 Posts

    "Maybe you call the updates by season.  For example, this recent update should have been called "NoDo - Spring 2011".  The next one should be called "Mango - Winter 2011).  For the countries that don't have a winter in December, just adjust accordingly.  Just a suggestion."

    At this rate they should just go the route of server products and name the updates for the year they maybe get released in...Windows Phone Update 2011, Windows Phone Update 2012. Thats all it looks like we'll see anyway, might as well just give in. That gives our "premiere partner" AT&T months of time for 'testing'.

  • A message from Microsoft Co. to all of us WP7 customers expecting NoDo: April fools'...!!!

  • Ivan006
    3 Posts

    I'm still waiting for the NoDo update here in Canada.  I just noticed on the update chart that Bell is delivering the update.  I expect to get it at the end of the 2 weeks, so some time in May.

  • Ivan006
    3 Posts

    Maybe you call the updates by season.  For example, this recent update should have been called "NoDo - Spring 2011".  The next one should be called "Mango - Winter 2011).  For the countries that don't have a winter in December, just adjust accordingly.  Just a suggestion.

  • "The mere fact that you have to discuss "batches" and then explain that delivering might not ACTUALLY mean delivering for another two weeks just highlights A) how much of an absolute mess this is, worldwide, and; B) that Microsoft needs to "pull an Apple", wrest control of the core OS  updates AWAY from carriers and do it yourselves. You have a fraction of the install base as iOS devices worldwide which begs the question: Why are we screwing around with "batches" again?"-Captiosus

    YES, Get the update process control away from the Carriers! Microsoft needs to clean up this mess themselves and they can do it alot quicker without carrier road blocks.

  • Kropek3
    7 Posts

    Windows Phone 7 Speed Comparison with NoDo


  • Kropek3
    7 Posts

    Ok, corrected

    To obtain the update, follow the steps below:

       Start Zune

       Turn off Data connection and Wifi on the Phone

       Connect the Phone with the PC (USB)

       Start the update search in Zune

       About 3 seconds later, disconnect your PC from the internet (Turn WLAN off).

       Zune finds NoDo-Update. Press OK.

       Connect to the internet again and install the update.

    Should work for all devices that can be updated by the VPN / dialup solution.

    If it fails at point 5, try other timepoints for disconnecting, or try it again disconnected.