Weekly update status

Weekly update status

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We’re not going to be happy until everyone gets their update, and have more progress to report today. We’ve started delivering the March “copy and paste” update to customers of O2 and SFR in Europe. Also, Telstra customers in Australia are now receiving the February update. See Where’s my phone update? for the latest status.

We’re working hard to get this job done as quickly as possible. But I’ve noticed that some of you are turning to homebrew solutions to update your phone immediately. As an engineer and a gadget lover, I totally understand the impulse to tinker. You want the latest technology and you’re tired of waiting. Believe me, I get it.

But my strong advice is: wait. If you attempt one of these workarounds, we can’t say for sure what might happen to your phone because we haven’t fully tested these homebrew techniques. You might not be getting the important device-specific software we would typically deliver in the official update. Or your phone might get misconfigured and not receive future updates.

It’s even possible your phone might stop working properly. Bottom line: unsupported workarounds put you in uncharted territory that may void your phone warranty. We’ve made a lot of progress in recent weeks, so I urge you to please be patient for just a bit longer and wait for your official update notification to arrive.

Finally, I want to let you know about a new troubleshooting tool that’s designed to help customers who encounter two specific update-related errors: 800705B4 and 80180080.

If you encounter 800705B4 while trying to install the February update, first try deleting the history files for Internet Explorer Mobile, Maps, and Search (this article provides step-by-step instructions). If you’ve tried that and still can’t install the update, then use the new Windows Phone Support Tool we’ve created.

That’s it for today. As soon as I have more update news, I’ll report back.

Eric Hautala

General Manager, Customer Experience Engineering

176 Comments
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  • MiSahEL
    10 Posts

    <Shrugs> I went the "home brew" route... if it ends up bricking my Focus down the line, it'll just give me a solid reason to bale on the platform altogether. WP7 has a refreshing UI, but as it stands I tell anyone who asks to steer clear as WP7 is in BETA state at best.

  • jonemo
    7 Posts

    @Michael Stroh: I run a dev channel version of chrome. Granted, it's my own problem if I run experimental software and stuff doesn't work. But in this case two minutes of digging in the CSS reveal some interesting implementation choices that explain why the page doesn't necessarily render in a reproducible manner.

    Regarding the content of "where's my update": I am located in the US. My phone is currently not logged into any cellular network. It's an LG-E900 (Optimus 7).

  • tcbj
    2 Posts

    This is from an email from AT&T customer support:

    "The Windows phone 7 update is waiting for Microsoft to release.  Microsoft is still testing it and will release it when they are finished.  This is not a delay on AT&T's part it is Microsoft that is working on the release.  As soon as it is released we will make it available for our customers.  I apologize if you feel we are dragging our feet, we are just waiting for the testing to be completed."

    So who is delaying the release? Microsoft implies AT&T is delaying, and AT&T claims Microsoft is delaying.

  • @Tiago Fouto I don't see the connection either, it just bothers me that these are the type of headlines that keep cropping up. We know Microsoft is capable of delivering on their promises now if they can only do it instead of treating it's customers like they're worthless.

    I don't see any reason to support Microsoft's future Mobile/handheld devices IF they don't properly support WP7 and deliver as promise. If people must wait then please be clear enough to tell them why they're waiting and how long they must wait.

  • I'm digging all those concepts but can we get Microsoft to deliver on their update promises first or will we just have to resort to Homebrew solutions? Which right now seem to be way ahead in terms of improving the WP7 user experience with their ideas.

  • grnbd
    7 Posts

    We are way beyond early April now.

    AT&T the premiere Windows Phone Carrier my…..!!!!

    Eric, I can’t believe that Microsoft is letting one carrier be responsible for all the bad press lately. You are letting one carrier hold a good chunk of your US user’s hostage.

    It does not matter what MS announces at MIX11.

    It does not matter that MS shows off IE10

    It does not matter that MS shows Windows 7 running on ARM.

    It does not matter what big announcement MS makes tomorrow morning.

    It does not matter how many screen shots of Windows 8 leak.

    It does not matter how much you show off Mango.

    Until you stop letting AT&T point a gun at yours and your users heads and finish rolling out NoDO (A minor update) one question will stand out above all the points I listed above, when will all users get NoDo?

  • Microsoft Could Sacrifice Windows Phone ??? that's just stupid... this headline doesn't make any sense...

    "

    The IE chief is also willing to sacrifice browser market share and possibly also Windows Phone to speed up HTML5 development:

    "As Windows 7 usage exceeds Windows XP's in more and more countries, the sense in building for the future of the Web rather than the past is clear. IE10 continues several patterns from IE9. In addition to the Platform Preview, we have posted new test drives and over 500 new tests we've submitted to the standards bodies. IE's approach to emerging standards results in less churn and more progress for developers. IE10 builds on full hardware acceleration and continues our focus on site-ready Web-standards. This combination enables developers to deliver the best performance for their customers on Windows while using the same, Web-standard markup across browsers," the IE chief said.

    "

    what's the connection?

    Silverlight will be used mainly for apps... not web...

  • http://live.visitmix.com/ Live stream of MIX11 for those of you interested.

  • @Captiosus Believe me, i share your fraustrations as well. So much potential for this platform and yet who knows if we'll ever see it flourish.

    This article i just found isn't really encouraging either, specially the part that says "Microsoft Could Sacrifice Windows Phone" for a headline - www.infosyncworld.com/.../11930.html

  • hmm. so I really didn't see any response to my question about the availability of software for my HT HD7 which would provide the same "WiFi router" functionality I had on my HD2 (which ran WinMo 6.5). I am a developer, would it be possible for me to write such an application, or is there an issue with the platform implementation that blocks access to this type of functionality?

    Secondly, is the obvious exclusion of this functionality from the stock win7 mobile install a result of carrier pressure on microsoft because the carriers see a revenue stream there that they don't want to give away for free?

  • @ casper7 – Microsoft is as guilty as the carriers... If I own the dance floor, I decide who dances, what music is played and for how long.  Capisce?

  • casper7
    14 Posts

    and for some reason i can see micro$oft being a part of that too!

  • casper7
    14 Posts

    i just got to thinking, this is proboly a ploy by the carriers that in order for us to get the update we have to buy a newer phone with the update already installed.  that is the only reason i can think of as to why we are not getting an update that is over 5 months old.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @ThaRebeliouZ - I appreciate your spirit and enthusiasm, I really do. However, it's hard to sit here and keep talking about what WP7 needs when a large number of customers haven't even seen one and two month old minor updates yet. I'd love to sit here and discuss what we want, need and hope for, but we can't even get the things we KNOW we're supposed to get without having to resort to a homebrew community. Official channels give us nothing but "we're sorry" comments week after week.

    At this point, talking about what we hope is in WP7's future is pie-in-the-sky dreaming. They can promise the world at MIX11, but the cold reality is they haven't been able to deliver something as simple as two minor updates they promised last fall, and the longer this update issue goes on the more likely WP7 is dead in the water.

  • Admiral
    9 Posts

    @ThaRebeliouZ -- Very true.  I think there needs to be some form of inertial scrolling where it scrolls faster the faster you swipe.  Like you said it's AGONIZINGLY slow to get to the bottom of this thread but even swiping through my apps list isn't as fast as it should be.  If Microsoft only included the alphabet tile-interface like it did on the contacts list.  That would be a great solution, IMO.

  • @Admiral yea the text does get chopped up, not to mention the endless scrolling we have to do to reach the bottom of the page using WP7. I really hope IE9 Mobile fixes these issues.

    Another thing we need is a way to categorize our Apps By Types, Recently Installed, Most Frequently Used etc instead of endlessly scrolling through a list specially if you have alot of apps installed. I also wouldn't mind the Marketplace being revamped to make things easier to find.

  • Leigh
    89 Posts

    @dsoriol: keep it courteous, please.   Your "facts" aren't even facts.

    Anyway, on with my post.  This is actually a cross-post from the Windows Phone Radio 22 comment, but I think Eric will have a better chance to see it here.

    This {Windows Phone Radio} episode opened a new can of worms.  Now, upon using the information offfered by Microsoft, I decided to inquire with ATT, most of the time courteously, just WHEN I might see the update complete "testing".   Now Windows phone radio 22 indicates that the phone update might not be "Completely" in the hands of the operator.  So, it is time for Microsoft to better explain the step, and moreover BREAK IT DOWN a little more so that we can tell what is happening.

    So it is really simple.   Tell us what's going on, if Microsoft is fixing something so that ATT can test again, let's say that.  If ATT has it and Microsoft has no open issues, let's say that.

    Everything "can't be done", but it is easy to see in this case "more" can definitely be done to let users know when they will be able to update.  More can be done to get users the updates faster as well.

    Things like WP7Chevron Updater are not going to stop showing up unless the update process SPEEDS up.

    I'm being as nice as I possibly can, and I hope to hear more about how this is being fixed at MIX11.

    Thanks for listening.

    To Eric, from Eric... your turn!

    Enjoy Windows Phone 7!

    -e

  • Admiral
    9 Posts

    Does anyone else think it's ironic THIS PAGE doesn't show up properly in the WP7 browser?  The right-hand side of the comments gets chopped off in portrait mode (at least on my handset).  I don't recall if it does it in landscape.  Add ANOTHER failure the laundry list.  It's a miracle you're still in business, Microsoft.

  • dsariol
    1 Posts

    This entire blog should be a testament to where the WP7 platform is going. Not even the original iPhone was this disappointing when it first came out. I mean I dont understand why Microsoft puts the updates in the hands of the carriers. Its ridiculous let them worry about the service and not on the hardware. This phone shouldve had these features from the get go. I mean Symbian has been doing cut and paste since almost the beginning of the decade and its taking Microsoft a whole year to get this out and its not even out for that matter. Difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Apple took the reigns on the hardware and software and made everything so simple for the consumer and Microsoft insists on sending updates out in batches, which seems to be such a huge mess now. I havent even received the first update they sent out. Not only that but when the update does finally get approved, some people will have to wait way beyond the actual release cause they send the update out in batches. Its 2011 Microsoft and ATT, you need to figure out a more efficient way to get the updates to the consumer fast and at the same time. I agree with everyone else when they say that the integrity and reputation of WP7 is going the way of Windows Vista and I wouldnt be surprised if they left WP& as it is and come out with Windows Phone 8 with the hopes that everyone will forget about what happened with WP7. So disappointing. Thanks for supporting the supporters Microsoft and thanks for listening and Steve Balmer you are delusional and  an idiot my friend.

  • Zonagh
    2 Posts

    This is ludicrous. A constant stream of "we're sorry" isn't going to cut it.

    I got a Samsung Focus on AT&T back in December. Yes, I knew the phone had shortcomings, but I had heard positive things about it and read about this update process that was supposed to be seamless.

    I wish I had done more digging because I wouldn't have bothered. There is a complete lack of communication by everyone involved and not just in terms of updates. An utter lack of communication about the Office functionality and future features; zero communication about Xbox Live functionality and promotions; so on and so forth.

    The community has been telling you, for months, that we like this phone but it needs help to be competitive and these comments have fallen on deaf ears time and time again. We've been telling you what we NEED - and, yes, some things we WANT - out of this phone to bring it in line with every other smartphone out there, and the only posts we get are APOLOGIES. Windows Phone Radio podcast even skirts the issue.

    Because of this stupidity, I have zero confidence in this platform and I've gone out and purchased a VM prepaid Optimus V Android phone that I carry around *in addition to* my Focus. The sad reality is I find myself using the Optimus V more, every day.

    Either support the platform or don't.

    Stop half-assing it.

    Stop playing the carrier blame game.

  • This just in from my wife who has an AT&T employee company-use WP7.  Apparently somebody hit a button a little too soon.

    "Earlier today you may have received notification that Microsoft has issued a new Firmware update for all Windows Phone 7 devices. Unfortunately this notification was sent prematurely. Another notification will be sent on or around April 19th and a new announcement will be posted on the COU website once this update is available. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused."

    That means possibly update pushes to AT&T customers next week.  Keeping my fingers crossed.

  • Yea whats up with the lack of Bluetooth support on WP7? :/ I hope things progress after MIX11

  • mdoan300
    10 Posts

    Thanks for the update, Eric.

    I know that AT&T has a lengthy (4-6mo) testing process, which was ok for dumb phones back in the day, but not-so-great for smart phones today.

    Personally, I suspect that a Samsung firmware update is the reason why AT&T hasn't released NoDo for *any* AT&T WP7 phone and Samsung is probably working with AT&T on resolving the issue(s).

    I think that Microsoft, the OEMs, and the carriers need to collaborate and share information to provide customers with more accurate & detailed information. Right now, Microsoft is washing their hands clean by providing the "Where is my update" page (which is a great start), but that still leaves Microsoft in the hot seat with "vague" status updates. I think the OEMs and carriers need to step up take some that responsibilty, quite frankly, and provide more detailed information.

  • Can you people atleast tell us how long we need to wait? I got my both updates after a long wait. I was shocked that I just got a copy paste functionality as something new. Which really frustrated me

    NEW PHONES ARE COMING EVERY WEEK AND YET YOU PEOPLE TAKE A YEAR TO AIR A SMALL UPDATE?? I HAVE A VERY STRONG FEELING THAT WP7 WILL BE WASHED AWAY IF THE SITUATION GOES LIKE THIS.

  • Ok but can you please tell me about the other features you have locked in these phones?

    Bluetooth File transfer, a decent File Explorer...Will you fix these things because it is obvious that you have limited the use of this phone extremely.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    I have to agree with @ThaRebeliouZ.  Stop with the batch-and-cue already.  Smaller updates faster is the smart play.  Have your folks to go Lean Business 101.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @Sethf00, I'd say you weren't paying close enough attention when you bought the Focus.  I did a LOT of research on the different phones well before launch and I was well aware of the issues regarding SD cards on the Focus.  However, given that the max that any other phone was going to have was on 16GB, it was worth it to me to take the chance that I could find a card that would work fine on the Focus.  And it was worth it.  Just because instructions on a box tell you HOW to do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.  Althought he AT&T salesperson made quite a point about saying I should hold off of installing a microSDHC card, I did it anyway.  And I've been quite satisfied.  16GB of storage would not have been even close to being enough for me.

    @Noveed, while few will disagree with the issues you cited regarding WP7, it also looks to me like you did minimal research on WP7 before you took the plunge.  I went in with eyes wide open.  I was satisfied that I would prefer the WP7 experience over Android or iPhone4, and, like so many others, believed the marketing ploy that there would be frequent updates to add features that weren't ready for launch.  I don't doubt the features and bug fixes are coming.  The part that angers most of us is that the frequency of the updates is a disaster and that we weren't fully told the way the update process worked (pronounced "carriers can screw the whole thing up").  I disagree with you on he Marketplace, however.  I find it works very well, though there are certainly a few things that, based on my shopping habits, I wouldn't mind seeing changed.  But I chalk part of that up to differences in how people shop and what they shop for.  Now that I have NoDo, the Marketplace actually is working better.  I don't find it "pathetic".

  • xaxum
    3 Posts

    Eric,

    There appear to be people on both sides of this.  Hate MS or say you are doing everything you can.  WP7 is a MS platform that should be updated directly from you.  Don't rely on the carriers because they DO NOT care at all about the customer, at least in the US.  Please help the consumer and bypass them completely.  We should not have to rely on a 3rd party to get our phones updated.  It should be rolled out directly from Microsoft to the consumer like PC updates.  Not staged.  Not carrier approved.  You have similar specs for a reason.  Do what is right for the consumer and give them their update.  

    Maybe you can have a phone setting that determines how people get the update.  By default it has to be carrier approved, which means you may be waiting years, or if the user changes it to direct from MS then they get it bypassing the carrier.  This way those that care about the carrier "tests" can wait an eternity and those that know carriers are EVIL can get it quickly.

    You are confused about who your customer is.  You treat the carrier as they were your ultimate customer.  While you do need the carrier to sell your phone the end customer is the one you need to please and you are not doing that.  Do us all a favor and bypass the carrier or give us the choice as a 3rd party has.

  • www.betanews.com/.../1302449778 - 7 things Microsoft should do at MIX11 and probably won't

    good read

  • Very not happy with the process so far.  It's been 5 months with no updates as of yet.  And the update we get doesn't really add too much to the phone.  Some bug fixes and copy and paste which I don't care about too much in the first place.  It's a bit sad to see that ATT, Microsoft's premiere Windows Phone 7 partner, is still in the testing phase for this phone.

    To me, I think Microsoft should just bypass the carriers for future updates. Perhaps give carriers a deadline for OS testing and raise any red flags for the update.  The way it is now is just flat out not working at all.  Marketplace crashing, apps working too slow (need SQL CE on the phone for apps to use to speed the apps up such as facebook/twitter/etc..), and a plethora of other problems and lack of features.

    Microsoft is saying that Mango should be out sometime this year, but seeing how the current process is working, I highly doubt that.  All I know is, Microsoft really needs to find a way to address the issues at hand with updates taking too long to be released.  Too many users are unhappy, including myself.

  • Korn1699
    114 Posts

    Isn't today the last day AT&T has for "testing" before we are in mid April instead of early April?   I doubt anyone will have the update from them at all this month..

  • Noveed
    2 Posts

    So far its been pathetic in terms of support. Updates are too few and underwhelming. Even posts like this are now sounding pathetic and desperate. You guys have messed up leaving other talented individuals to clean YOUR mess and you have the audacity to make posts like this.

    Whilst I must admit NoDo did improve the phone somewhat it still is far off from what the competition has to offer. I was on the Iphone Bandwagon from the 1G to 3GS... did not get the IP4 because I wanted change so I headed to the new platform WP7, I have been utterly disappointed so far. Underwhelming features, the inability to listen to the customer base... the lengthy time it takes to push out updates the amount of bugs still present in the devices after NoDo Check: forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php

    The marketplace is a gimmick absolutely pathetic and not even refined properly. The way things are categorised is pathetic and this makes for awkward navigation. In addition why are there so many gimmicky apps on the Marketplace?

    How about this for feedback... Pull a finger out of your backsides please before you start to loose your customer base back to Iphone and Andriod and Blackberry. The only thing stopping myself and many others going back to other platforms is a lengthy 18 month contract.

  • Hmmm

    wmpoweruser.com/mix-11-windows-phone-announcements-or-wish-list - MIX 11 Windows Phone announcements or wish list?

  • sethf00
    1 Posts

    Have had my Focus for almost 6 months now.  More and more disappointed by the day I didn't get an iPhone - and I am a Mac hater.  

    Expandable memory in the Focus....did everyone forget about that?  The Focus was advertised and sold with expandable memory, with instructions in the box on how to do so.  But, its not supported, and can break you phone, and no certified Micro-SD cards were ever released.  I believe this was the best selling phone.  If anyone started a class action lawsuit, let me in on it.  I would have bought a phone with more memory had I known all of this was going to happen.  

    I don't even care about copy/paste, but my Marketplace always freezes.  I often can't find more games, or load the games I have,because my Xbox Live tool always says "updating" at the top.  Awesome.  The three times a month I am bored and on the road I try to play a game, I can't.  

    The Videos and Music - I can't get them to stop playing.  I can only pause it, and go out of that app.  Has no one heard of a stop button?  Maybe "play from beginning"?  I have grandma's boy just sitting in the middle of the movie, paused.  

    Lots of great things about this phone, but the lack of visibility in fixing these issues is concerning.  I doubt I will ever get to use more then 8 GBs on my Focus thanks to the lack of the SD expansion support - which I paid for when buying the phone.  (Yes, I know there are options for the geeks, but I don't want to brick my phone doing unsupported things.  I kind of need my phone to work)  It may not matter, because the marketplace and games don't work well enough for me to expand up to 8 GBs.  

    Now I wish I had an iPhone and Angry Birds.......

  • @ScubaDog I hear ya, definitely hope they act on it. We dont like our patience being tested anymore than they've already been. I know "Mango" will calm some of us down but until its in our phones we can't just expect the "NoDo" update which many are still on the forever waiting list to hold us over.

    WP Team, send out more updates before Mango please. Best way to ensure that major update will go smoother and hopefully we wont have to go through this ridiculous Carrier waiting list. I like that the Marketplace is rapidly growing and some of the early versions of apps are getting better with frequent update revisions so i hope this will be the case with our OS.,

    Bring on MIX11!

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @Admiral, if you really ARE "trashing" your Focus, please send it to me.  I will happily take it off your hands.  Send me a message so we can work out the details.  Seriously.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @ ThaRebeliouZ, the Mango update is supposed to add a lot more Skydrive integration with the Office hub.  I doubt we'll see any interim updates, so as massive as Mango is expected to be, I think we'll just have to settle for what we have until the end of the year (assuming it's anywhere close to on time and the carriers don't get in the way again).  I think I'll be looking more for third party developers to come up with workarounds until then.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @Scheezo, are you actually reading our posts?  Did you NOT catch that we are blaming Microsoft for the bits of this problem that they have control over and we're blaming the carriers for the bits they have control over?  Tell you what, read MY posts and it should be clear.  Oh, and your point about Apple taking three years to add copy & paste hold no water.  The point is THEY HAD COPY & PASTE before Microsoft kicked out WP7.  What we, as customers, are saying is that Microsoft had no excuse putting out a device that didn't at least have the features its competitor had.  It makes no sense whatsoever.  Using your logic, horse carriage makers were doing smart business by putting out a new and improved carriage to compete with Ford's model T.  That's just brilliant.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @ ThaRebeliouZ, I think they CAN pull it out of the fire, too, but only if they REALLY hear what we're saying.  They have to not just acknowledge it, but actually act on it.  I haven't seen the ad yet, but it's probably going to take more than that to get the momentum back.  Yes, I'm still a fan of WP7...I don't equate the bad processes of Microsoft and AT&T with the capability and attractiveness of the platform.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @Dave Williams, if you have NoDo, then you have Copy & Paste and it DOES work in Excel.  I suspect you're trying to use it in the wrong way.  Click the cell you want to copy but move up to the edit block --- that's where you can select the data to be copied (or past there).  You can't do it from the cell itself.

  • @Captiosus yep, the carrier road block will be the death of WP7 unless something drastic is done about it and we aren't getting any promising news about that. :/

  • Admiral
    9 Posts

    Thanks, guys!  Another ABSOLUTELY USELESS post to go with the ABSOLUTELY USELESS chart you sent out a few weeks ago.  Way to be patronizing AND condescending at the same time!  Are you people really that grossly incompetent?

    If there’s one thing you guys are good at – and we all know it’s NOT delivering updates – it’s feigning sympathy.  Comments like “We’re working hard to get this job done as quickly as possible” and “please be patient for just a bit longer” are beyond idiotic.  NONE of us care how ‘hard’ you’re allegedly working, plus we’ve been more than patient waiting for an update that was supposedly completed in December.  See the problem here?  You’ve LIED to us.  Bottom line: SHIP THE DAMN SOFTWARE or at least TELL US A SPECIFIC DATE when it’s shipping, don’t give us a seven-paragraph bull-crap blog post that says nothing.

    As for the carriers, guess what?  NONE OF US GIVE A TURD ABOUT THEM!  We bought YOUR product that YOU supposedly support.

    Echoing what other posters in this thread have said, I LOVED my Samsung Focus when I first got it.  But the bloom was quickly off the rose following constant Marketplace crashes, poor browser performance and many, many other glitches.  Frankly, I feel sorry for you guys for delivering such an inferior product.

    I can’t wait to get the “February” update.  AT&T is still testing it so, figure 10 more days for that plus a few more weeks for scheduling plus a couple on top of that for delivery (honestly, how hard is it to push out a friggin’ update?) and we’re looking at May . . . at the earliest.  You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.   At this pace I’ll look for the so-called “Mango” update Q4 of 2075.  Luckily for me I won’t be a Windows Phone user for much longer.

    If you can’t deliver updates at an EXPONENTIALLY FASTER rate than what you’re doing now . . . which is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING . . . just quit.  Give up.  You will NEVER compete with iOS and Android.  EVER.  If you're 20 paces behind in a footrace and you gain three you're still trailing.

    Windows Phone is – deservedly – dead in the water.  It had so much potential but you people killed it.  In fact, it’s dead to me as well.  I’m *literally* chucking my Focus in the trash and getting an iPhone.  I’m tired of the lies, the silence and the missing features.  NEVER AGAIN, Microsoft.  NEVER AGAIN.  You have lost my patronage.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    Oops, forgot #4:

    4. "Carrier's fault; Not Microsoft's": Under the current situation, yes, it's the carrier's fault. But let's connect the dots further. Who ALLOWED the carriers to be the sole arbiter of the update process? MICROSOFT.  

    It boggles my mind, entirely, that Microsoft would allow the carriers to be able to roadblock core OS updates when, by the very same contract, carriers have NOTHING TO DO with the core OS. Again, broken record, but core OS updates should involve no one but the OEMs and Microsoft. The OEMs to pass firmware updates to Microsoft, Microsoft to do the core OS updates with the OEM firmware integrated, then Microsoft pushing updates through the Zune Software. The ONLY vested interest carriers have in the phone are in boot screens (which have already been proven to NOT be overwritten when updating outside the official carrier) and Apps/Hubs - which, contractually, are stand alone pieces of software that can be installed, uninstalled and updated like *any other application* from Marketplace.

    Ergo, this update debacle is entirely Microsoft's fault for allowing the carriers to become the middlemen in the update process.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @Scheezo - Man I'm SO sick of that "defense". Every part of it has been thoroughly debunked.

    1. "It took [Apple/RIM] X amount of time": How many years ago was that? Smartphones as a mainstream consumer device was a still a risky proposition back then. No one was sure (except Apple) that a consumer smartphone would take off. WP7 came out in 2010, it is now 2011. There is NO excuse for the platform to be missing core features that every other smartphone platform integrated years ago. This "back in 2007 we had to wait for Apple" defense doesn't fly... because it's not 2007. Now, couple the fact that there are features missing in WP7 that were in WM6.5, and it's REALLY a head scratcher.

    2. Android vs. WP7: I'm tired of sounding like a broken record here but people who point at Android vs. WP7 clearly have no clue how the Android business model works. Google washed their hands of the update process and left it solely on the OEMs and carriers. By virtue of the core OS being open source, OEMs and carriers have been allowed to slap Android on any device they want (just look at the bevy of terrible "tablets" running Droid 1.6). Each and every OEM and carrier is responsible for updating each phone individually. This was by Google's design. WP7 IS NOT LIKE THIS. Microsoft set requirements on minimum hardware specifically to ease development and update rollouts - by their OWN statements. Microsoft has a more closed, more secure Marketplace environment than Android. Microsoft controls the implementation of WP7 on devices. Microsoft made carriers and OEMs agree not to modify the core OS beyond putting in their own Apps and Hubs. There is simply no comparison between Google's Android model and Microsoft's WP7 model except Microsoft, stupidly, has let the carriers take over the update process when the carriers have no reason, or need, to be involved with core OS updates.

    3. Committed to the platform? Does this sound committed to the platform: (www.infosyncworld.com/.../11915.html)? The Nokia deal is already floundering and Microsoft execs are talking up how WIN 8's featureset will make better smartphone. They're not talking about addressing the current problems with WP7 - they're talking about W8 features on the next set of phones. To me, that sounds like a company that's on the brink of writing WP7 off and hoping we all forget about its problems until the next iteration.

  • @dkb1898 Yes, i wanna see more "SkyDrive" support! and like @Captiosus mentioned on the other blog, we should have SkyDrive integration across Xbox Live, WP7 and Windows PC.

  • Anyone know if a good MMA app is coming to WP7? The ones we have now are horrible.

  • dkb1898
    167 Posts

    Eric/Michael,

    Suggestion for a tool for Windows Phone, and this comes from several things I've heard from friends who are iPhone owners and thought the iPhone platform was lacking in some ways. When you switch devices, or in my case (updated with Chevron), have to likely reflash your device at some point, there really is no way to "save" your data from apps. For instance my Gas Mileage app, other app inputs (not settings), games progress/saved games, etc... This would be something that SkyDrive would be perfect for...imagine being able to go to a new Windows Phone and not lose anything but your settings and having to reinstall apps. But all your app "data" would be saved....this would be a very very popular feature.

    Thanks...

  • I love my phone but in the last two weeks I have received two updates including the copy paste. The upload says it uploaded successfully, yet I still cannot copy paste in Excel. Is this the wrong expectation?

  • Scheezo
    3 Posts

    I can't believe the amount of anger surrounding this update.  It took Apple, what, 3 years to add copy and paste?  Also, apple ripped of Palm's old UI.  Microsoft has given us something different and we all knew going in that we'd have to grow with the platform.  I had a blackberry for 2 years before I got the update for it.  The update that BB release a year prior.  My wife has had an android for 2 years and has never received an update for it.  Don't blame MS for your carrier dragging their feet.  At least they've made a commitment to this great phone.  I love my phone with or without the update.  I'm signed to a 2 year contract and am quite happy.  Cut them a little slack.  At least you have such a luxury.

  • Sheeds
    205 Posts

    Might be worth checking to see if any manual APN's have been wiped by the chevron forced NoDo updater too...have heard it reported in AUS it has done this (not verified).

  • Vincent
    6 Posts

    So after listening to Windows Phone Radio they make it sound definative that the Chevron Updater will affect/damage your future updates. This posts does not convey the same thing.

  • Listening to the new "Windows Phone Radio 22" podcast.

  • Will Windows Phone Radio be back on this weekend?

  • @Captiosus @ScubaDog Microsoft did a much better job on that new ad showcasing the Office and Xbox Live features but more importantly, how quickly you can do things on WP7 without real multitasking yet.

    I'm slowly starting to see more people here getting WP handsets so things aren't as bad as i thought. 2 co-workers just recently got one (HTC Surround, HTC HD 7). They absolutely love it and i didn't really show my LG Quantum to them before so i was quite surprised when i seen them with their new phones.

    I dunno i still have faith that the WP Team/Microsoft will get the phone to be a serious contender by the end of the year, Specially with the accelerated growth of the Marketplace.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @BuckeyeTico - I can't offer ironclad proof, but given my cell data usage numbers (which are amazingly small for the last month, I've only been using data near my home), I would be inclined to say that when you're on a WiFi connection, it uses the WiFi connection exclusively.

    I can say with absolute certainty, however, that if you're on WiFi and doing something with data, then get out of range of the WiFi connection, it seamlessly transitions to 3G connectivity (while looking for other WiFi hotspots, if you have hotspot detection enabled). The reverse is also true - if you get back in range of your WiFi connection, it will connect to it and move off of 3G.

  • ** Wi-Fi Question **

    Do you guys know if my WP7 is connected to a wireless network, does this temporarily disconnect my data service so my phone can access the internet exclusively through my Wi-Fi? If so, does my data service kicks back in once I disconnect from the wireless network? Or, do I need to switch connections manually? Thanks in advance for any and all responses…

  • edm
    27 Posts

    I hear you.  Worked fine on my Focus.

    Good luck getting feedback from MS on this (or any) issue.....

  • ormico
    6 Posts

    @edm - yeah, I have been extremely tempted to do just that, but I hate to blow money on something that might  end up toasting the card. I've heard a lot of good results from SanDisk and Kingston Class 4 16GB cards, but for every few people that says it works I'm hearing about someone who says it didn't. Would love to just get a "certified" one.

  • edm
    27 Posts

    @ormico  - Good question.  I finally took a chance and bought a Kingston 16GB (class 4) at Amazon.  No problems in 2 weeks.  Based on what I read, this card seems to work well for lots of people.

  • ormico
    6 Posts

    where are the Certified for Windows Phone SD cards?

  • @ ousooner314 - Thank you man, for your info and quick reply! On the other hand, I feel you guys -people with and without NoDo, but I can't help to tell you that after having this phone for almost 2 weeks and admitting that WS has screwed up not only with the update process but with some of the basic components of this platform, I LOVE THIS LITTLE RASCAL! It's different, intuitive, nicely crafted, fast and most importantly WITH SO MUCH POTENTIAL! Although the road is bumpy, I will ride this one up to the end… I just hope MS will make it a little (or a lot) more pleasant that it currently is.

  • @BuckeyeTico - "New phones with OS version 7.0.7389.0 include all of the features and improvements that are included in OS version 7.0.7390.0.". I got this from the WP7 Update page located at www.microsoft.com/.../update-history.aspx. You're up to date!

  • ** LATEST OS VERSION **

    Hello all - Since I am a long time Sprint customer and after finally being able to buy my WP7 (which is supposed to have the latest OS version installed -including NoDo) but after reading somewhere here that the latest OS version is 7.0.7390.0, I am wondering if my phone indeed has the latest OS version, because it shows 7.0.7389.0.  Is this perhaps a version just for the HTC Arrive?  FYI, I have Copy & Paste on my phone.  Thanks for your help!

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @Captiosus, that's a pretty good analogy, but it's my opinion it misses being a complete one just a bit.  I agree that it would appear that Microsoft isn't entirely sure who its demo is, though they have professed it to be, largely, those who have not had a smartphone before.  And, it's been my experience so far, that when I let those who have only had feature phones actually play with my Samsung Focus they quickly find that they like the "experience".  I'm convinced more and more that WP7 is absolutely a "you have to handle it" device and that this is what sells the units.  No commercial, no blog can get across the experience like using it.  I do think that Microsoft, from the ground up, was gunning for Apple's "experience", which is why the Metro UI now appears to be taking over every other Microsoft platform (with varying degrees of success--some things are just lost in translation)  The problem I think is that it's just different enough that marketing is lacking the right hook.

    On top of this is that Microsoft has finally taken a page from Apple's playbook of leaving previous versions behind.  Apple's successes were largely advanced through the idea that they could only make tremendous leaps forward if they didn't care about dragging along their legacy customers---customers either bought the new devices or settled for the lonely road of keeping their old hardware & software.  Over decades of this policy Apple users are use to that.  They are NOT with Microsoft.  I notice on all the blogs the complaints from WM device owners who are completely puzzled why features that have long been supported in their older devices were completely missing from WP7.  Well, that's because to do something REALLY new they had to throw you under the bus, so to speak.  "Stick with your old platform if you're so tied to your features", that's that tacet response, anyway.  Sadly, Microsoft neglected to respect an important piece of competitive strategy, not to mention good business practice.  Get the VOC.  It doesn't matter whether their target was first-time smartphone owners or taking a slice out of Apple's pie, if you don't get the Voice Of the Customer right, you are creating a wasteproduct.  And what I hear the VOC saying is that, even as a first-time smartphone customer, they are AWARE of what folks have on their iPhones and want to have AT LEAST that capability.  If Microsoft hadn't been so concerned about getting WP7 launched when they did they probably would have had more of the features---and yet STILL been behind both Apple and Android, but would have been closer to the mark.  

    But, @Captsiosus, you're right.  If Microsoft can't absolutely settle on who their target demo is, then they are grasping in the wind for what the VOC is....it all becomes cacophony.  I was reading that a couple of different market analysts believe WP7 will end up No. 2 behind Android by 2015.  That seems farfetched, but barring some really game-changing hardware advance I can't imagine Apple coming up with anything significant to add to the iPhone in the next few years.  This means if Microsoft can get its house in order and put the carriers back in the corner (where the BELONG, in my humble opinion), they MIGHT actually leapfrog Apple.  There are some features in WP7 that, if exploited properly, could take what would otherwise be equal features with iOS and make them much more functional and attractive than iOS.  Hubs and integration are an example.  Apple is TRYING to play catchup on that one, and Android can't touch that at all.   It seems to me that if M$ can't go the next step and create cross-hub integration they would have something amazing.  Even so, it's the developers out there who REALLY need to fully grasp the hub mentality and M$ needs to give them all the APIs and tools to exploit that better.

  • jalf
    8 Posts

    @Skreddle: "Windows Phone 7 is a relatively new OS, things like this become faster over time."

    The first iPhone was able to push out monthly updates *from day 1*. (and without bricking people's phones, and without allowing carriers to arbitrarily sabotage the process by holding updates back for imaginary testing). Microsoft is still struggling to deliver a small incremental update after what, 5-6 months?

    Now, if MS is 6 times slower at launch, why do you assume they'll be able to catch up later? If they're unable to compete today, why would you take their word for it that they'll be competitive tomorrow?

  • Firstly Eric, appreciate the updated update on updates!  You have unfortunately made a rod for your own back and you'll have to report back here every week until every device has updated.  The only way trust is going to be restored (and you can go back to cowering in the corner) is by taking the reins and kicking some carrier butt.  It pains me to say it but Microsoft is going to have to return to some 1990's style business tactics, it'll only get worse when Nokia phones come on stream.

    The update process, coupled with the slow-moving development and (seemingly) fragmented testing schedule is broken and needs to be totally re-thought before you embark on pushing out Mango.  Seriously consider smaller, leaner updates, end the big service pack mentality - it's not fit for the 2011 mobile market.  Push out bug fixes faster, features later.

    One small comment on the phone update history, could you clarify in your next post whether all phones across the globe received the *same* NoDo? (granted there are some phones with firmware updates)  The reason I ask is that the US page shows a different summary list to the GB page, is this just a web admin error because it's been like that ever since the March update history was ever posted so I gather it was intentional?

    US phone update history page

    www.microsoft.com/.../update-history.aspx

    GB phone update history page

    www.microsoft.com/.../update-history.aspx

  • I don't mind waiting a little longer for firmware updates to be released because allowing the engineers to have a little more time to work usually allows them to produce a more stable, meaningful update. I praise the team for frequently updating the community on the status of the update. Windows Phone 7 is a relatively new OS, things like this become faster over time.

  • jalf
    8 Posts

    Oh? My "strong advice" to you, the WP7 team is: "sort it out".

    You promised a smooth update process. You completely failed to deliver. Someone else steps up and gives *your* customer what *you* promised them. So now YOU make sure that his software WORKS AND KEEPS WORKING.

    Seriously, wake up. Are you in the business of annoying and harrassing your customers and your third-party developers? Or are you in the business of delivering a phone that's worth using?

    Encourage people to use his updater, unless YOU can deliver the same NOW. And if it breaks, take responsibility for fixing it.

    What do people have to lose, anyway? So far, your track record tells us that:

    - updates take 3 times as long to develop as they do for your competitors

    - when they are released, they brick people's phones *anyway*

    - when they are released (and fixed), people *still* won't be allowed to get them for another month.

    #2 is really an interesting point. Using your official update process doesn't protect a user's phone from getting bricked, so why is it preferable over the third-party updater again? What do I risk by using it? You can offer delays *and* bugs. The third-party updater offers *only* the bugs. I'd prefer the latter, I don't know about you.

    And, uh, this updater pulls updates directly from your servers. If those updates can break your phones, then YOU have a problem, and YOU need to fix it.

    Don't ask your users to be patient. They've *been* patient, for 4-5 months now. You've used up your patience quota 3 months ago.

    You're not in a position where you can ask your users to trust you, or where you can offer "strong advice" about what your users should do. You need to grow some balls and start taking responsibility for your platform, and delivering what you promised, on time, whatever the cost. And until you manage to do that, the *least* you can do is allow others to do it for you.

    The endless stream of vague "we're sorry" and "we'er not happy until..." and "please be patient" messages is just ridiculous.

    Face it. Your users have ZERO reason to be patient. And they couldn't care less whether YOU are happy, as long as you fail to make THEM happy.

  • TroySch
    5 Posts

    @Strider_Auz

    ...thanks for that information mate. So it doesn't matter where you are in the world, you will get the updates, not via your current Service Provider but the original provider - even though, or because, it is 'unlocked'... interesting.

    Appreciate the quick answer...

  • Sheeds
    205 Posts

    @tropolite Your unlocked phone will actually get it's updates approved for release to your Zune Client PC software from the ORIGINAL CARRIER your phone was sold from.  If it is a Rogers handset - they still approve the updates for release to your phone, Telstra has nothing to do with it.  You should be seeing update notices soon (if not already) per this page:

    www.microsoft.com/.../update-schedule-world.aspx

    Cheers.

  • TroySch
    5 Posts

    Okay a question that I have not seen an answer to, @Eric  #Anyone?

    I have a Focus bought outright and my Service Provider is Telstra Australia. To date they do not officially supply or support Samsung handsets. So what does this mean for the updates and "important device-specific software we would typically deliver in the official updates" if the Service Provider does not support the phone you use?

    The reason I purchased the unlocked Samsung Focus (originally from Rogers in Canada), is it is compatible with NextG and it has no lame ATT logo.

    So going through the 'right channels' in updating the handset, will I receive the Samsung specific updates even though the provider does not support the phone?

    Thanks

  • Sheeds
    205 Posts

    Not sure if the latest Chris Walsh / Chevron Forced update tool Blog post is linked here:

    blog.walshie.me/.../an-update-on-the-homebrew-update-front

    More work between Chris and MS now leaning the argument more towards the "this breaks your phone" side than not....

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @ThaRebeliouZ - That article made me realize what this entire smartphone market reminds me of.

    Target vs. K-Mart vs. Walmart.

    Bear with me here (and I'm leaving out RIM in this analogy):

    All three stores are general merchandise stores.

    Target sells an "experience". It's in their ads, it's in their store layout, it's in the way they do business. Their merchandise, while mostly the same as the other two stores, is pricier because it's not about the margins, it's about the "experience" of being a Target shopper.

    Walmart ran to the margin bottom. They sell similar goods at the lowest price, but they sell them in larger quantities. Walmart slams stores all over the place so they could simply sell more at less margin, but the increased quantity sold turns the profit.

    Kmart? They can't figure out who their demographic is. They don't/can't sell an experience like Target, but they can't live at the margin bottom like Walmart. They have nothing that defines them. K-Mart corporation bought Sears hoping bringing in the Craftsman and Kenmore brands would give them an edge, but that purchase has ultimately done nothing for them.

    Target is doing fine. Walmart is doing fine. K-Mart is slowly going out of business.

    Replace Target with Apple, Walmart with "the Android platform", and K-Mart with "Microsoft WP7". Xbox Live and Office Mobile are to WP7 as Craftsman and Kenmore to K-Mart. They're nice, respected brands, but they aren't driving people to care about either parent.

    That's why I don't think his analysis is right in that article. Microsoft can't play the margins game; Android has a lock on that. Microsoft also can't play the "experience" game; Apple has a lock on that. Which ultimately leaves the question: What can they do to distinguish their platform, and not end up like K-Mart who is slowly shutting down store after store, becoming more and more irrelevant as time goes by? The only answer I can come up with is to take on RIM, head-to-head as a viable enterprise solution. But for that to happen, WP7 needs some serious maturity towards that purpose, and fast.

  • Interesting:

    www.pcworld.com/.../to_top_iphone_microsoft_must_aim_low.html - To Top iPhone Sales, Microsoft Must Aim Low

  • "And even though most of us did finally reach a point of being fed up, we remain supporters.  But supporting a platform does NOT mean we give up the right to complain about things we believe, as CUSTOMERS, are not to our liking."-@ScubaDog

    Well Said.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    You know, I'm usually really reluctant to go there but,  @Daedalus_x304, I think I'll make an exception in your case.  You don't know what you're talking about.  It appears to me that you can't comprehend what folks are posting.  Refrain from calling people "prats" (assume you meant 'brats') when you interject yourself into conversations between adults.  Most of us know QUITE WELL what Microsoft said.  If you'd care to visit Paul Thurrott's website (windowsphonesecrets.com) you can read a very thorough description of what M$ said and what has actually transpired.  If you cared to read the other threads IN THIS BLOG you'd see that, until VERY recently, the status and information provided was not really any substantive information at all.  You clearly don't comprehend why folks are upset over how Windows Phone 7 has been marketed and supported---by Microsoft AND the carriers.  If you actually took the time to read all the posts you'd see that most of us DO place adequate blame across the board, from OEMs to Microsoft to the carriers.  People like myself and Paul Thurrott were early adopters and VERY strong supporters of Microsoft and the WP7 platform, and remained so for several months when a LOT of folks were ready to throw them under the bus.  We DID give them a break.  And even though most of us did finally reach a point of being fed up, we remain supporters.  But supporting a platform does NOT mean we give up the right to complain about things we believe, as CUSTOMERS, are not to our liking.  You need to learn about economics and business, my friend.  A business exists for one thing: to make money.  It cannot make money unless it has a product or service that people want.  And you can't hold onto a customer base unless you continue to deliver a product the way the customers want it.  WP7 came out of the door WITHOUT many, many features that other smartphones already had.  It came out of the door with a lot of bugs.  But we still bought them.  We bought them because there was an understanding that updates would come quickly and frequently.  While no definition was given as to what "frequently" was, I think it's not unreasonable to say that five months does not qualify.  If you are happy with your WP7 device as-is, then that's perfectly okay.  But many, if not most, of us have higher expectations, and Microsoft has acknowledged those expectations.  We recognize they are working toward them.  We are beating them up, if you will, over the lack of honesty and transparency.  We are also beating up the carriers, who are equally guilty--in my opinion, more so.  In the future, watch who you call stupid.

  • Appreciate you guys taking the time to notify the community of whats going on. But I hope you folks can understand that it can be really frustrating when an important update which adds a high profile features like copy paste is released users will be keen to try i as soon as possible. And when carriers Like Telstra has still not rolled out the 1st update while others have pushed out NoDo ,  it just makes users more frustrated .. I believe more users might go for the unofficial update method for the IE and Mango updates, if the carriers delay the updates in this fashion

  • I cannot believe how stupid some of you are. Just be patient and let MS work on this without you prats causing issues for no reason! You read what the press say and think you should be outraged by the late update. MS said the update will be in spring so that can be as late as the end of April. And let me remind you that this is not entirely MS's fault, with several manufacturers it was never going to be easy to role out the update. Samsung messed up so MS had to clean up for them, there were those Chevron guys and all the testing. Tbh I think MS have done a very good job to make an OS work very well on such a variety of handsets. We could say that MS made things hard for themselves by having a number of manufacturers to cater for but then we would be complaining about the lack of handset choice and that MS was copying Apple. Just give MS a break, the press give them a hard time to sell stories cos everyone likes to read about a large firm messing up. Why not support and help MS improve their products for you. Whining gets you no where but solving issues does. (And no, I do not work for MS - I just have my own opinions rather than that of the media)

  • @edm   I agree with you--  Microsoft might be responsible for the testing-- AT&T has been very responsive to me, answering my questions within a day.   When I emailed Ralph de La Vega, the executive response team called back the next morning.

    (disclosure:  I'm a former employee of AT&T...  I know a lot of good people that work for the company.. I can imagine that their process heavy development & testing process could  be responsible for the delay,   I also have no problems switching to another carrier -- or another mobile operating system --  if it ensures I get updates more quickly).  

    My hope now is that all of the parties are working to make sure that future upgrades are deployed much faster.

  • I think the sentiment of many here ring true: The carriers (seeming) lack of interest is killing the adoption of the platform! I know you (MS) have to play the difficult balancing act of getting carriers to market and sell your product, and at the same time get people interested in the platform so they invest time and money into it so it doesn't become the next WebOS/Palm fringe platform. Alas, the public perception of many is that the carriers simply don't care, and you cannot effect any change in the matter.

    Whether you can publicly admit to it or not, these unauthorized apps have been the reason many have not yet abandoned the platform.

    As a developer, I had high hopes for this platform, and I really like its potential. I cannot risk time and money in a platform that seems to have a vague future not because it's bad, but because users are frustrated enough to abandon it-again-mostly due carriers treating it like an annoyance or a fringe/niche product.

    I understand the politics and hopefully you're pressuring the carriers to change their attitude or-better yet-get them out of the way altogether (as you originally told us!). However, if you don't make a conscious effort to ensure the carriers don't kill the platform, many of us will certainly abandon it and move on to greener pastures.

    Show us we made the right choice,

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    Again, for the new-to-WP7 please refer to my post listing websites you really MUST frequent if you want to stay up with the ins and outs of WP7 and devices.  It should not be a surprise to ANYONE at this point that WP7 does not support flash.  In fact, only Android supports right now.  Rumors have existed since launch that Flash is being worked for WP7, but absolutely no information past that has surfaced....it's Adobe's baby, NOT Microsoft.  Flash IS A PLUGIN, not a native browser function.  Also, Flash IS OLD TECH.  I don't give a flip if most of the web uses it.  Flash is bloated, horrible code.  HTML5 is where we're going, so I'd tell your company to start learning to write in HTML5 and migrate off of Flash.  I hate all things Flash.  Now, as for tethering, I'm pretty sure that's both device-dependent and carrier-dependent.  I will tell you that there is a way to enable WIRED (via USB connection to your laptop) tethering on the Samsung Focus using the Diagnostic feature.  Just do a web search for Samsung Focus tethering and you'll find it easily.  Of course, I'm not sure what AT&T will say if they discover you are using tethering without paying for it, but that's not my problem.  Again, for the folks who are new to the game, you should already have known what was in the NoDo update.  With all the stuff that's been written there's just no excuse for NOT knowing.  It was only to fix a very few things.  Copy & Paste, CDMA capability, app loading and Marketplace performance were mostly what it was about.  The Mango update (for which a LOT has also been written---please look it up) is the monster update that will expand multitasking, upgrade the browser to IE9 (still no Flash plugin--that's Adobe), Twitter integration, full document syncing with the Skydrive, and a slew of other fixes and features.  No definite release for that, but the drums seem to be beating out "holiday 2011".

  • ibmckay
    8 Posts

    @Michael Ball - Thank you for an excellent post. I couldn't agree more.

  • fleon
    4 Posts

    I'm sorry, Eric, I truly am.  I bought the Samsung Focus on launch day.  Loved it.   My family saw mine, and went back the same day and all bought the same phone.  Sure, there were problems- the Marketplace was broken.  Voice recognition is flaky sometimes.  Apps in Silverlight have problems with scrolling. Occassional 3rd-party app crashes.  Live Tiles screwed up the registry and stopped working.

    I figured there would be some quick bug fixes and patches released.  I was ok with it.

    Note- all my complaints above relate to bugs, not new features. Bug fixing patches should be quick and released as soon as ready, right?  Apparently not. In fact, the last three very user-visible bugs weren't addressed in NoDo.  And I don't see Microsoft discussing changing their policy.  Why am I supporting this phone?  I'm ok with new features only once or twice a year, but I've lived with marketplace crashes and crappy search for 6 months?  Really?

    Here's what you need to understand: if it's broken, fix it. If it's not (ie, it's a new feature) you can wait til the next big release.  But for things that frustrate users everyday because they don't work- that you have to address quickly.  It's not 'delightful' to see things just break in front of you that should work fine.  

    Fix your update schedule.  Fix your release policies.  I'm buying a different phone next year and maybe I'll come back to Windows Phone if you guys can show that maybe you 'get' the consumer.  For now, I'm no longer holding my breath.

  • cmwind
    71 Posts

    people are impressed by the phone but i cant honestly advocate it with this current update process. Im calling it now. Windows Phone is another Zune. Early adopters (your most passionate fan base) are now promoting for friends and family to not get these devices. we have been lied to and this update process is ridiculous for 2011.  i dont mind purchasing apps since i will be using the phone for another 1.5 years. music is unprotected through zune... but i am looking at other consumer platforms. microsoft ive been advocating for you for years but i now know for sure that you don't know how to manage your company any longer (not on the consumer side).

  • Can you please provide an explaination regarding the exclusion of tethering and hotspot capabilities in this phone? I just got one yesterday and for the most part I like it, but not being able to share the internet access the phone has with other devices is a serious hole. My old HD2 and Touch-Pro running WinMo 6.5 could do it. I would really like a truthful explaination and not just a bunch of marketing hoohaa. Is Microsoft bowing to external pressures from providers who don't like the fact that users have been able to do this type of thing with older devices?

  • curtk
    37 Posts

    And now, as if to rub it in, Apple will release yet another update (with features and bug fixes) in the next two weeks OVER AT&T NO LESS. What do you bet theirs will be out before NoDo is on AT&T? At this point, I think Apple is just doing this to prove a point while our mess continues. How many updates is this for Apple since November of 2010 when WP7 shipped? 7, 8? lost count.

    www.bgr.com/.../apple-to-release-ios-4-3-2-in-the-next-two-weeks

  • RazvanS
    1 Posts

    NoDo is today available for Orange customers in Romania. The copy/paste is gorgeous. But... I expected more improvements, like the next two:

    1) I want to put any sound as rington to my phone. Is so basic to any dumb phone that is amazing is missing from WP7.

    2) I need a browser, any browser on WP7 that can read flash. My company site is in flash and when I meet with customers I can't show my site to them. I need my laptop to do something so simple.

  • @Michael Stroh & @Eric Hautala - I've been a software developer for the last 23 years which much of that time spent in the telecommunications industry (including with AT&T) and I fully understand the software development lifecycle - even if it's a distributed one.  If you want to keep everyone onboard with WP7 and your update process and provide true transparency, you need to do a few things.

    1.  Instead of weeky updates, it should be a daily thing.  If you're truly working as hard as you say, you should be making progress daily, not weekly.  We use a Agile development process here and we make progress on an hourly basis.

    2. Provide firm dates.  If a date slips, explain yourselves to those consuming your product.  Isn't the way ALL consumer-driven software projects are run?

    3. Provide discrete information about who owns each step.  If it's the carrier, say so.  If it Microsoft, say so.  Don't just post **Testing.  That tells us very little.  Who's doing the testing?  Who should we call to light a fire under their butts?  Who's holding things up?  Who's incompetent?  And, most importantly, who's accountable?  Nothing in this process so far shows any accountability by any party.

    @edm - You are 100% correct in regard to the responsiveness of AT&T.  Twice I've sent emails to both Steve Ballmer and Randal Stephenson (CEO, AT&T) and each time I've received a call back from Mr. Stephenson's executive office.  Yesterday's email was returned with a phone call from Mr. Stephenson's office within 20 minutes of me sending it.  That's what I call a response.  I have yet to hear anything from Microsoft.  Is someone over there hiding?

    This whole update process, not the waiting, has to be the biggest (with the exception of Vista) egg to Microsoft's face.

  • @wildev - Here's the answer to you last question "Why, MICROSOFT, are you not IN THEIR FACE?????"

    The answer is simple.  AT&T is bigger than Microsoft and holds the user base.

  • 'We’re working hard' - really? What on, it can't be wp7, apple manages to send out regular updates in one go, what's so hard about that? You've got to be the slowest working team in the history of technology and that's saying something!

  • 'We’ve made a lot of progress in recent weeks' - what, create a basic page that just sums up how useless you are and started writing more posts saying the update will eventually come!

  • "Believe me, I get it." - how the he'll can we, all you've done is lied to us!

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @Michael, I think you've touched on a critical differentiation here that most of us place into contention: "bootleg".  I'm totally against bootleg/black market.  But cooked ROMs being ported to other devices notwithstanding, I don't think you can make the case that "cutting in line" is the same as bootlegging.  The workarounds many of have used to update our phones to the packages that were ALREADY heading to us via the slow boat the China are simply digital analogs to cutting in line.  We are taking advantage of a method to get around a hugely broken process.  It's not like we are bypassing a purchase requirement or something.  I cannot insist enough that the WP7 update meme MUST be more like the desktop/laptop update meme.  I defy anyone to make a credible case in this age for anything different.  Okay, so the latest method that Chris Walsh temporarily made available MAY be messing up some phones.  The other methods prior to that (which I used), while a bit tricky, were pretty straightforward.  I've had no issues, am enjoying the nice improvements, and I'm certain my device will work as well as any other machine at accepting future updates.....um, as well as the process CAN work, I suppose.  Here's the bottom line, though, in my opinion.  Until the update process, with extremely few exceptions, is so agile that once Microsoft has worked it out with OEMS that it deploys on a regular battle rhythm just like the desktop, you are going to have a large contingent of us looking for the next version of "cut in line" method to get the updates VFR (visual flight rules).  Brush up on Lean tools for business.  A paramount driver for all processes is suppose to be VOC.

  • edm
    27 Posts

    @turtlebreath and @ibmckay  

    - As bad a AT&T is, they have responded to me every time I have sent them an email complaining about this.  Similar emails sent to MSFT have been neglected.  Everytime AT&T has said the same thing - the testing is being done by MSFT, not AT&T.

    While this makes no sense to me personally, in the absence of a response from MSFT, I am beginning to believe AT&T.

  • @ dev - Dude, good comment... especially: "Didn't your mother tell you if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." LMAO!

  • ammughal
    25 Posts

    Fully agree with "Retsud" ,

    Why I have GOOGLE search on my WP7  ( T-Mobile UK ),

    also I dont understand why Microsoft is allowing carriers to test updates as and when convenient. It will be much better for users and for Microsoft to bind them to dead lines or specific timeframe to complete testing. So users dont suffer.

    the early adoptors are the most valuable assets for any company, you wanted us to show and demo windows phone 7 to our friends and family and now everyone asking me where is Copy and Paste,

    Deutsche Telekom (UK) how long it take to test something that half of the world has already tested

    Is this the time to switch to an Android !

  • @ousooner314, I agree but with emphasis!  WHY IS AT&T MICROSOFT'S PREMIER PARTNER.  Just go to any AT&T store and look for the Windows Phone 7 coverage.  The AT&T store looks like an Apple Store.  And AT&T is killing the WP7 by holding an update that they have had inhouse testing for MONTHS!  Why, MICROSOFT, are you not IN THEIR FACE?????

  • dovella
    303 Posts

    But.... Mr Ballmer  planning to send Windows Phone General Manager  to Lybia,  ?