What’s next for Windows Phone? Just ask Joe

What’s next for Windows Phone? Just ask Joe

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Microsoft’s Joe Belfiore (or "JoeB” as he’s better known in the hallways where Windows Phone is made) took the stage in Las Vegas this morning and showed off some popular new apps on the way for the phone. He also previewed some under-the-hood capabilities coming in the next version of Windows Phone that should open the door to all kinds of creative new apps.

The demos took place during Joe’s keynote at MIX 2011, Microsoft’s popular annual conference for web and app developers. The event catered primarily to programmers interested in both the next release of the Windows Phone operating system (codenamed “Mango,” and slated for release later this year) and the new version of our free app-making tools, which arrive next month. 

But there were plenty of tidbits in Joe’s talk of interest even to casual phone owners.

Mango will introduce some awesome new features, including multitasking capability, a hardware-accelerated mobile version of Internet Explorer 9, Twitter in the People hub, better support for Office documents in SkyDrive (Microsoft’s free cloud-based storage service), and much more. On stage, Joe helped paint an even clearer picture of what’s coming in the months ahead. (For a technical wrap up, check out Matt Bencke’s nice post over on the developer blog.)

If you’ve never seen Joe on stage, I highly recommend checking out his keynote firsthand: he’s always fun to watch. (The video replay will be posted here.) Meanwhile, here’s a quick recap of some of the fun things he touched on.

New and next-gen apps

Joe previewed new apps on the way from Skype, Spotify, Layar, and Qantas Airways. He also talked about some of the capabilities app makers can tap in the next version of Windows Phone, which will offer more access to the phone’s camera and built-in sensors like the gyroscope. This should make possible all kinds of creative and cool new “augmented reality” apps.

Joe also noted that May is the month when Xbox’s Must Have Games program for Windows Phone will launch. The program features six hot new titles for the phone, including Angry Birds, Doodle Jump, Plants vs. Zombies and more. You’ll find more details here—or check out the trailer below to get a taste.

 

Hot new games on the way for Windows Phone

The Brandon Foy project

A few months ago, a talented young digital artist named Brandon Foy decided to make a little homemade commercial for his favorite phone. The result—Brandon’s “We Love Windows Phone” video—became a YouTube sensation and quickly caught our eye. Maybe you’ve seen it. If you haven’t yet, you should. Brandon’s little spare-time project puts even some big-budget Super Bowl ads to shame.

As Joe mentions in his keynote, Brandon’s video was so good that we asked him to make another. But this time, there’s a catch: If enough people watch it—200,000 to be exact—Microsoft will have it aired nationwide on TV. Check out Brandon’s original effort below, and then check out what he came up with next—and help get him on TV. (You can see even more Windows Phone videos on our YouTube channel.)

Brandon Foy’s first Windows Phone fan video

Joe on updates

Finally, Joe also spent a few minutes at the very beginning of his keynote addressing progress and questions around our software update process. Specifically, he tried to answer three questions he sees people here and elsewhere asking most often: Why have the updates taken so long to deliver?, Who decides when an update can ship?, and What have we learned? Watch Joe’s keynote to find out how he answers.

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  • Schrank
    2 Posts

    When will Skype arrive on WP7.5? Everyone has it except the WP users.Are there any new informations about the app?

    thx anyway ;-)

  • @ Cydiver - Skype for Windows Mobile? Never! WM is dead!

  • When will skype for Windows Mobile be out?

  • OMG!!!

      Did I just miss something here or is there NO 1-step way to get to the W7's dialpad?!?!?!!?!

      I'm not kidding - testing out a HTC HD7 today and there was no button or icon presses that would get me from IE to the dialpad in 1-step ala Symbian Green button.

      Gotta to be kidding me if Nokia thinks I'm migrating to W7 w/o the 1-step dialpad button! >.<

      Flip phones have 1-step dialpad access. Blackberries have 1-button dialpad access. Nokia phones have 1-button dialpad access.

  • Robert
    4 Posts

    Will the windows phone ever show the entire text message when a text comes in.  Or will it always show only a portion of the text across the top instead of untilizing the full screen?

  • I wish Mango update will include multilingual support, especially CJK(Chinese, Japanese and Korean). There are huge market in east asia. Do you know how crazy these people are buying iPhone? And there is still no competitors!

  • joe what I suggest is to support your softwares in WP7 so that it wud benefit microsoft ultimately.

    1. A superior windows live messenger on wp7 can help to attract customers from skype and gtalk. Why giving a room for your competitors to grow in?

    2. Better bing search. Yet voice search is not available in countries than the US.

    3. Bing maps should improve a lot

    4. xps and silverlight support

    5. Skydrive support

    I dont know what microsoft is thinking. they allow their competitors to grow and then think of competing. If had microsoft thought to develop a bind search when google established themselves then google wud never have dominated the market. Same in the mobile industry. A very un innovative windows mobile gave room to google to grow andorids.

  • brentn
    5 Posts

    None of this matters unless Microsoft stops the insanity of supplying the iPhone with apps prior to their own mobile OS - regardless of the smaller audience WP7 has. Yet another one today, PhotoSynth Yes, I know they explained why there isn't a WP7 version yet but there have been more than enough examples of iPhone before WP7 apps over the past few months to make this a valid criticism and frankly I'm fed up with it. Either Joe doesn't have the influence to make this happen or he simply doesn't understand why its important.

    Is Microsoft trying to sell Windows Phone 7 devices or iPhones? That's the only question that matters. Right now you're doing a wonderful job of selling iPhones. I hope Steve Jobs thanks you for that.

  • wow this sounds pretty good.  if you can actually get it out in time to beat the delayed iPhone 5 you might have a chance to survive, depending on whether apple can pull another rabbit out of their hat.  iOS 5 vs Mango - let the battle begin?

  • shuddi
    1 Posts

    Hello Michael, want to know how to use internet on my PC by using windows phone 7. I am able to use net on my phone, but not on my PC. I need to have two connections 1 on my laptop and other on my phone.

  • IHATEIT
    2 Posts

    would not buy this phone for my dog he is even smarter then this SMART phone

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    @gggsd

    Zune never supported hidden WiFi and they kept saying "hidden WiFi isn't in the standard anyway" I dunno why they'd change tune for the phone.

    I'd much rather have enterprise encryption :P

  • Razor
    53 Posts

    @Captiosus: What you describe is what I see often enough with Microsoft... everyone seems to be doing their own thing. It might as well be 10s of separate companies.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @gggsd, I'm sorry to tell you that Microsoft made a conscious decision NOT to support hidden WiFi access because they felt it was a security risk.  I didn't see anything about opening that up during Mix'11, BUT I just saw that HTC has added that capability to their devices.  So, clearly, it CAN be done.  It's just not supported by Microsoft.  If someone caught mention of something different for Mango, please chime in.  The truth is that WP7 was not geared toward the enterprise but rather the consumer.  There is only very limited business-type capability right now.

  • For those of you that were wondering, Brandon Watson confirmed that "Mango" WILL work on any existing Windows Phone available already. Listen to the new Windows Phone Radio 23

  • gggsd
    4 Posts

    Michael Stroh -

    Would it be at all possible to reveal anything about Microsoft's intention concerning support for adding "Hidden Wifi" connections to WP7 ?????   This has been a big big stumbling block for me in using my Samsung Focus at my work place.   Could there PLEASE be some public statement on whether this will be supported or not?!   Specifically will it be in the Mango upgrade???    

    I know this topic does not impact that many, but it is very important for myself, and I know others as well.  It's not as 'sexy' as cut-paste, multi-tasking, etc and I'm sure is a very minor issue internally.   But I am on the verge of returning my phone to AT&T due to this lack of support (they have agreed to let me do that).  

    I want to continue with my WP7 ... but I also need a smartphone to function with my work's hidden wifi networks.

    Please!     thank you!

  • I actually wanna see some Nokia WP7 phones.  Also i agree with @Razor and @Captiosus about the Xbox Live games being 1 per week :/ I'm tired of waiting for all the good stuff to be released LOL

  • fxmldr
    8 Posts

    @scubadog

    Yes not the flash, but the little LED that tells you if it's charging.  You're right it could be an HTC issue in not implementing instructions under the API.  All I know is that it's stated in my manual to be a function;

    As for the parsing texts, thanks for the info.  I think it may be an Arrive issue.  So far the majority of complaints are from people that have the same phone as me.  If you do see other complaints let me know.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @Razor - I agree, completely, regarding your Xbox Live statements. I understand the one-per-week release system is how Microsoft treats the actual Xbox Live Arcade system, but that's an established system that has been out, in its current iteration, since late 2006. Even early on, the console had several arcade releases weekly to strengthen the XBLA library.

    Microsoft needs to take the same approach with XBL on Windows Phone. Accelerate the release schedule for a while to bring a significant library out, THEN move to the weekly release system. As I previously mentioned, the best way to minimize the anger (or distract people, however you want to look at it) last month from the update issue would have been to have games like Angry Birds and Plants vs. Zombies show up in the Marketplace.

    Additionally, it's hard to be enthused about the XBL integration on WP7 when it feels like it's considered on the periphery of the service. It's not even discussed as part of the XBL platform by the XBL spokesman, Larry Hyrb, yet he discusses Games for Windows Live. I know he plays games on a WP7 device because his Gamercard has shown Fruit Ninja and Revolution on it, but when he does his blog updates about "coming soon" to XBL, he completely omits what's coming for XBL on WP7. He never once mentioned the Must Have Games promotion on his blog, the device only has one forum on the XBL forums (as opposed to forums for individual titles), et cetera.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @ScubaDog - As I agreed, the way it integrates memory is leaps and bounds better than other devices. However, just because it integrates it as a total memory package doesn't necessarily make the ENTIRE process superior. The draw of user accessible storage is that its, well, removable and replaceable. The way WP7 treats these cards turns that benefit on its head.

    Yes, you can compare it to drive striping, but the analogy is flawed because with striped drives you can monitor data usage across the drive and ghost drives in the case of a drive failure. Most software, including the basic Drive Management MMC in Windows 7 and Windows Server, allow you to manipulate files per drive within the stripe so if you have a drive you think is faulty you can move files to the good drive in the stripe and replace the ailing one. Compare that to WP7 where you have no access to the file system and can't manually back up WP7 in any way.

    There is ZERO logical justification for having to do a full factory reset when changing microSD cards. If Microsoft didn't intend user accessible storage then I can fully understand why the issue exists and it's something to be addressed later. However, the current implementation, regardless of intention, has become a negative word-of-mouth point regarding phones like the Focus. Imagine if using ReadyBoost on Windows Vista or Windows 7 acted the same way and you couldn't decouple the USB drive you set up for ReadyBoost without doing a complete system reinstall. Any time the user instructions say "factory reset required", the function ceases to be "superior" from an end-user standpoint.

    Integrating the microSD memory card to the "complete" memory overview is fine, but a tool should exist through Zune that would allow users to "ghost" the contents of the microSD card to local storage then place it onto another microSD card seamlessly much like I can do with a single drive of a striped set. Example: You have to completely turn the Samsung Focus off. You take out the microSD card and put it in a card reader. Zune gives you an option to "migrate current data from existing microSD card to new microSD card". It then copies the card contents that were on the phone at the time you turned it off then prompts you for your new microSD card. Formats the new card, copies the contents over. You put the new card in the Focus and turn it back on. Tada. No factory reset required.

    Also, I think you somewhat understate the reasons people may want/need to change their microSD cards. Your theory is that most people only remove them because transferring data from the card via USB is slower and/or more tedious than transferring through a card reader. I will concede that is one reason, and perhaps the biggest one. I can think of other very real reasons, however. For example: I originally had a 8gb microSD card and found a deal on a 32gb one; Or, my old card was fine but now the flash memory is starting to act wonky after too many clear cycles; Or, I no longer require a 32gb card in my phone, but need it for some other device and want to put my 8gb back in the phone.

  • Does anyone know when AT&T will release any new models ? I hear the HD7s is "coming soon" . Are they waiting until Nodo is available before releasing this phone ????

  • Razor
    53 Posts

    Too tired to comment on the update mess. I'm more curious as to why Microsoft is doing a staggered release on these games... Argh, just release them all at once, and feature one a week on the Marketplace. That way they get the exposure needed but those people already aware of the game can just buy it immediately if they want.

    Patience may be a virtue but forcing users to wait (this means updates, too) is a bad strategy when trying to build a new smartphone ecosystem.

  • dkb1898
    167 Posts

    @Captiosus - I'd rather see Verizon as the premier partner, but you make some excellent points for Sprint. I'd like to see Microsoft release a world phone too, tested across carriers and other countries (they already have this experience in their back pocket and will soon have a lot more). I would GLADLY pay $500 for this type of phone if I knew I could have the freedom to switch service if I thought it stunk, which AT&T's obviously does. The bad thing currently about paying an ETF, is a) the phone probably will not work on another network (CDMA or different bands) b) you won't be able to see it since the resale isn't like an iPhone yet and c) you then have to at least pay a few hundred up front to get another phone on another network. Perhaps a Nokia world phone?! Considering you're using the Qualcomm chipset which works all over the world, this could definitely be done.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @fxmldr....the LED on your Arrive?  You're not talking about the flash for the camera, are you?  If there is a separate LED for notification, I don't believe that is a supported feature...I can tell you the Focus doesn't have any such thing, and it was pretty much the flagship.  If the API actually exists for such a "beacon", I'd be willing to bet that it would have to be a developer (e.g., from HTC) to engage that capability, not Microsoft.  I think many folks are confusing the OS and what it natively supports with what things OEMs started putting in the devices.  Again, I think this speaks to the "surprise changes" that Microsoft said threw a monkey wrench into their update process.  As for the Arrive not parsing your text message into multiple messages, I think that's an issue with the Arrive.  I don't have this problem on the Focus.  It splits up long-winded texts consistently (I know, because I do it alot, as you might have guessed).  I don't think I've seen others complain about this problem on other boards, but I could have missed it.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    Fair enough.  Allow me to make the case for the way Microsoft is handling memory and why, I believe, it makes sense the way it is.  As you said, other devices (Windows Mobile/PocketPC included) just treat slots as an "extra drive".  On PPC/WM you could tell apps to install to the "internal storage" (that extra flash space the core OS didn't use) or to the card instead of the normal, built-in memory.  Naturally, if you removed the card the app would not work---but your OS still worked.  That was protected.  Most of us observed that, at times, apps would not work consistently when installed in other than the default locations.

    Now, move forward to WP7.  I've contended from day one that the microSDHC slots were never really intended for users to access.  I contend that they were for either OEMs or, probably more appropriately, carriers to provide devices with different storage sizes "on the fly", as opposed to Apples' "you buy one of our three manufactured versions" model.  The brilliance of WP7 is that when you install the card the OS recognizes it and immediately "absorbs it into the collective".  It becomes, as far as WP7 is concerned, just one big chunk of memory, virtually seamless.  Think of disk striping, in a way.  If you remove a hard drive from a striped set you lose the data (unless you have a parity drive, which allows for recovery while you hot swap the bad drive).  Clearly, we don't have that particular flexibility.  But it makes the memory usage much faster precisely because it's all one bit of memory.  If you install an app or load music it is stored across ALL the memory that's available.  If you pull the card you have essentially ripped the "boot drive" apart.  That is, of course, the downside of this memory model.  You realy have no choice BUT to re-initialize the unit, just like you'd have no choice but to start from scratch on a PC if you did the same thing.  Because Microsoft's storage methodology is not your grandfather's file storage it didn't really make sense to make the card slots (if added by the OEMs) removable.  You wouldn't really be able to read it on a PC anyway.  Again, this makes sense.  It's a huge paradigm shift for folks.  Ask yourself exactly WHY people seem to still insist on being able to remove the card.  Because they find data transfer via the USB slot on the devices so painful (even if you DID have file-level control, which we currently don't -- though it looks like this is partially being addressed in Mango).  The solution isn't to go back to the archaic meme of card swapping.  The solution is to eliminate the pain of file management/movement on the device.  I am absolutely convinced that the Cloud is what Microsoft (and now Amazon, Apple and Google) is gunning for.  That process is still painful, unintuitive.  I'm getting more adept at it weekly as I play with the pluses and minuses of the SkyDrive, Mesh, etc.  Once complete file movement is possible via SkyDrive I see no need to swap a card...at the moment, my wife (who has a iPhone 4) and I enjoy the ability to both maintain the same shopping list dynamically via OneNote (the iPhone OneNote app is less capable, but I've worked around that).  I make a change to the list and immediately she can see the changes.  We no longer have to track what we need to shop for via a notepad on our counter and at any point if one of us has some time to hit the grocery store we know we each have access to the updated list.  Once I can sync ALL my files that way, I will be ecstatic.  

    Again, I really believe part of the problem that Microsoft got sidelined by was the OEM choice to have a slot on some devices rather than solder whatever memory amount they needed on the device.  They new the minimum spec was 8GB, so that's what most came with, my Focus included.  But, knowing that some folks wouldn't be satisified with just 8GB a cheaper design alternative probably was the slot, knowing WP7 would absorb the additional memory.  Clearly, there were some inconsistencies in the way WP7 saw this additional memory and not all cards are equal.  That's why you probably will not see a list of "certified" memory, unless Microsoft decides to refine its memory mapping and handling in anticipation of nextgen devices also having slots.  Personally, I contend that the Focus and, if memory serves, the Venue have the best idea.  Stick with the minimum memory hardwired and slots to allow folks a LIMITED flexibility in expanding their memory size (know that a full reset is required if you want to change it).  I LOVE having 40GB on my device.  The only regret I have is not being able to go higher (being jealous of a 64GB iPhone).  After all, iPods are going the way of the dinosaur now that folks are gravitating to their smartphones.  My Nano has been collecting dust since I got the Focus.

  • fxmldr
    8 Posts

    While the demos and the upcoming direction of Windows Phone is great, and I realize the timelines are probably already set and any change would probably hinder development and timeliness, but would the Windows Phone team please work on fixing the bugs and adding small feature improvements?  For example, the LED light on my HTC Arrive doesn't notify me with  blinking light when I get a text message while the phone is locked.  Nor does the phone parse out SMS messages into two when the 160 character limit is met.  

    I definitely think if Microsoft did that and in a diligent and timely manner it'd totally re-establish credibility and tied consumers over as Mango reaches completion.

  • For your info...you have announced the ssl update for wp7....apple has pushed it out.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @ScubaDog - "I believe the way WP7 integrates the memory is brilliant and far better than simple "removable" memory."

    I agree that the integration is far superior to the way Android treats removable memory. Android just goes "oh, microSD card, here's how much you have". But I'm not sure I'd go so far as to call it brilliant until they make it less painful to change microSD cards. It doesn't need to be as easy as Android, but it shouldn't require a factory reset, either. But if, as you hypothesize, the removable storage tweak was done by the OEMs on-the-sly, then that wasn't something Microsoft was prepared for. Now that it's out there, hopefully Microsoft can work with it and make changing microSD cards easier for the devices - both present and future - that have that capability.

    "Again, that's great in theory but completely out of touch with what the carriers are doing----which is capping data."

    So true. I have a gut feeling we may see the absolute end of OTA unlimited cellular data in the next 5 years, even with the smaller companies like Sprint and their subsidiaries. If the smartphone market booms, as indicated in the reports that place WP7 in the #2 spot by 2015, celluar infrastructures are going to be heavily congested and government regulation, along with construction costs, are going to keep infrastructure growth slow. AT&T already threw unlimited under the bus while Verizon is heading down that path. T-Mobile and Sprint (along with Sprint's subsidiaries), by virtue of being smaller, are able to continue with unlimited plans at reasonable rates, but T-Mobile might not be T-Mobile much longer.

    It will be interesting to see how Amazon's Cloud Player pans out as a benchmark for cloud streaming in the short term. I'd wish I could see some data logs from the service. Take my mp3s, for example - almost all encoded at high quality V0 VBR/Simple Stereo from my collection, so the files take up a LOT of space. It wouldn't take long for me to hit my AT&T data cap streaming audio over Amazon's Cloud Player.

    "All you have with iOS or Android is a core OS with a pile of apps loaded in there.  There's almost no inter-app or app-to-core awareness."

    That's precisely why I refer to iOS and Android as Windows 3.11.1, much to the chagrin of Android and iPhone/iPad users. Both iOS and Android's interface reminds me of Windows 3.11's Program Manager, and they're not really much more advanced than it was all those years ago. Install an app, boom there's an icon. Want to group them together? Make a new container and move the icons there. It's not a very "smart" way of doing things on a "smart"phone.

  • idoprz
    1 Posts

    On Mix11 they said support for 16 more languages, but didn't said which languages.. when will they publish a list? and what about languages that didn't got into the list? when will they arraive?

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    Okay, fair enough, let's put this one to bed.  My apologies as well for being curt over the speculations as to Microsoft's plans for Mango.  When I see intelligent, if sometimes emotionally charge, folks go down a critical path that seems to throw logic under the bus it just floors me.  Yep, no doubt I should have approached it better.  That said, I'm open to anyone making a case that my contention for Mango and the future for our "legacy devices" (that sounds odd, doesn't it?) isn't the most logical.  I find that I have quite a bit in common with Paul Thurrott when it comes to observing and analyzing this whole thing--though there are still some points I disagree with him on.

    After following the keynotes at Mix'11 I am really excited about what Mango is going to bring to my Focus.  I'm even more convinced that I chose the correct device and convinced I was right to take the chance and install a 32GB card in it.  Though I've not seen this explicitly said by Microsoft, I wouldn't be surprised if a user-accessible memory slot wasn't one of those "surprise hardware changes" mentioned that caused the huge hiccup in the update.  Whether or not Microsoft originally intended to support extra memory, it would be a huge mistake to ignore it for future development.  It would be a mistake for OEMs not to insist on that flexibility.  I believe the way WP7 integrates the memory is brilliant and far better than simple "removable" memory.   Given the recent report that iPods are disappearing from the landscape because more people are migrating their media to their smartphones, devices with only 8 or 16GB is just plain wrong.  I understand the mindset was that folks would stream media via the Cloud.  Again, that's great in theory but completely out of touch with what the carriers are doing----which is capping data.  We aren't anywhere near TRUE 4G and we aren't anywhere near the capability to suddenly shift all users to the Cloud for media storage.  But, what's clear is that Microsoft is determined to make their OS work way more efficiently on hardware that doesn't HAVE to be the top of the line and still bring a user interface that is so amazingly new.  I'm fully behind that.  I'm at a point in my life where I do NOT jones after the bleeding edge hardware for the sake of the hardware.  I'm after the performance.  If I can have a device that's lower end but outperforms iOS or Android, then count me in.

    Speaking of that, I went back and watched the WP7 keynote again and I don't think most folks truly grasp just how unique and forward-thinking the hub mentality truly is.  What really brought this home to me was the "Extras Hub".  If third party developers get it and do this right, we're going to see an intuitive integration that Android and iOS simply can't imagine touching.  Think of it like the Borg.  A well-written app, once installed, becomse "absorbed into the collective", it becomes "aware" of the core apps & hubs and they become "aware" of the new app.  The IMDB demo gave a hint to this.  All you have with iOS or Android is a core OS with a pile of apps loaded in there.  There's almost no inter-app or app-to-core awareness.  But WP7 is a paradigm shift.  And it all works on hardware we currently have!  The only thing that will douse this will be not getting the actual update process MUCH faster and MUCH smoother.

    So, my advice to OEMs: quit jacking with the hardware!  Stick with what Microsoft has given thumbs up to until they can approve proposed mods.  My advice to carriers: quick jacking with the updates!  You are simply our way to get to communicate with our mobile computing devices---we don't care about your puny little unique apps.  Get out of the way and concentrate on improving your communication services (bandwidth, throughput).  If you're really concerned about the "user experience", then get the reliability and speed where we need it---it's not your job to make sure the OS meets our requirements.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    PS. Microsoft guys, after watching the keynote, I want one of those ASUS E600 dev devices.

    It looks sexy, like I'd envision a Windows "Phone" to look.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @Xim - Thanks for the compliment.

    I'm sure there's probably some legal wrangling with contract issues that would prevent Microsoft from being able to "swap" premier partners at this point, and I can, in a way, understand why they went with AT&T originally, with the first WP7 devices being all GSM. That said, I think going with AT&T as the premier partner was a poor decision that is starting to show.

    AT&T has enjoyed years of iPhone exclusivity so they really didn't need, nor could they fully appreciate, being a premier partner of a second platform, at least not while they continue to make so much of their money on the iPhone. What does Sprint have? Not much. For a while, they got a lot of the newer Android models before others, but now that Android is everywhere, they're getting Android phones in no particular order. The most anticipated three Droid phones this year, so far, have gone out to Verizon (HTC Thunderbolt, Xperia Play) and one to AT&T (Motorola Atrix).

    IMO, AT&T and Verizon aren't exactly carrier's I'd want to consider "premier partners". I know they're large, and probably have the best coverage in the U.S. of all four National carriers, but their size becomes a liability. They carry too many phone types, too many platforms, and, generally, just want to get new people in the door.

    Sure, Sprint is smaller and has some coverage issues, but that's just the kind of carrier I would want, if I had the same level of financial clout as a company like Microsoft, to work with. At least with Sprint, I'd know I wouldn't be treated like "just another software provider", and with Sprint's market position, combined with Microsoft's position as an underdog in the smartphone market, a collaboration between Microsoft and Sprint could have helped both companies grow.

  • Xim
    13 Posts

    @Captiosus, I just finished reading your post about moving from ATT to Sprint as a premier partner and it makes perfect sense!  As a T-Mob current user I refuse to go to ATT, and if you look at the TMob forums noone wants to go there either, so I wholeheartedly agree with going somewhere else - Sprint - to get our updates and new w7phones.

  • Xim
    13 Posts

    @edm and @ Michael S; I just installed the HTC Hidden WiFi (as I have an HD7 on TMob with NoDo - obtained without hacks or anything).

    It installs perfectly, but alas, when I go to use it it tells me that " This application requires the latest Wi-Fi software. Please update your phone to the latest system software."  Oh the irony...

    /in soapboax:  I got No Do - what i haven't gotten is the supposedly available - but nowhere found HTC update that went to SOME devices.... Of course, Zune tells me I have the latest and greatest.  

    Here's a suggestion - if MS is also going to send OEM updates, include them on your 'Where's my update' page or the change log or SOMEWHERE where we can go check.  If those updates are being 'tested' by the carrier - and I'm inclined to think the carriers would want to test, tell us.  

    I'll try and buy the fact that it will take 10 days for the servers to push an update to the phones based on your deployment software collection (and if you are using SCCM 2012 - heck talk to Wally M or whomever the admin in charge is to change the collection eval time to less than a day or whatever time is set now).

    Bottom line, if HTC sent out an app that was approved by someone on the marketplace - shouldn't part of the requirements be that all the prereqs were there? If not, shouldn't that be a flag to have the prereq downloaded? And if the carriers hadn't approved the update, why let it go to the marketplace????? What seems to be painfully obvious (if it wasn't before) is that whomever is your project manager for the updates is really missing the ball.

    I would laugh if the whole thing wasn't so pathetic.  /off soapboax.

    Congrats on Mix'11, it sounds really great all the goodies you have in store for the platform, hopefully we'll get some of them sooner rather than later.

  • I have a question about the upcoming multi-protocol messengers like IM+ etc. Will these Apps work in the background while we're checking our emails or browsing on the web?

    for e.g. if we were to get a new message would it pop up like a text msg on top or are we simply stuck to being inside the app for Instant Messaging until 3rd party Multi-tasking gets added via "Mango?

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @Brian Seitz - Thanks for the quick response. That genuinely takes some weight off my mind.

    Unfortunately my hypothetical isn't quite as hypothetical as it sounds. AT&T service where I live has taken a severe nosedive in the last month and a half. I'm lucky to get 2 bars of Edge or 1 bar of 3G these days. I'm looking side by side at my wife's phone and she's got 5 bars of 3G on Sprint's network while I have 2 bars of Edge. AT&T support, of course, claims there's no service issues in my zip code, but "suggests" I pick up a 3G Microcell (for the tidy sum of $300) if problems persist.

    Thankfully, I use the same Live ID across everything that's important, with exception to Windows Live Messenger, but that's just because I've used the same address on that for the last decade and I'm too lazy to change it.

  • @Captiosus I can take that one. Your app purchases are tied to your Windows Live ID, another reason why it is important to standardize on one ID across Windows Phone, Zune and Xbox LIVE. If you were to get a new device and tether to computer via USB it should automatically suck down the apps you have purchased and put them on your phone. Also you get to associate your windows live ID with five different handsets to the marketplace.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @Michael Stroh - Since you're checking here, I have a serious question, although somewhat off the "future" topic.

    Are apps/games linked to Live ID or UID (similar to Xbox 360) on WP7 devices?

    For example, if I told AT&T to shove off and went to Sprint and got the HTC Arrive, would my Live ID allow me to download everything I purchased previously on my LG Quantum, or are paid downloads linked to the Quantum's specific ID? I've been trying to find an answer to this on blogs, or App Hubs, or developer networks for the last couple days and either I'm failing at a proper search or I'm just not seeing it.

  • @Jason i just bookmarked your blog site, i'm diggin it!

  • @Jason: Nice blog. Love the clean look and all the screenshots!

  • I'm liking the dialog between MS and the users that we have now, but we have to get NoDo pushed out to the rest or that's all it is is "speak." How can I get excited about Mango when I may never get it due to At&t and MS not pushing it to me?

    Hey Guys, If anyone is interested, I have a Windows Phone Blog called Windows Phone Metro @ windowsphonemetro.com. It's not a site for money and doesn't contain adverts. I'm just a Widnows Phone fan and do it because I'm an enthusiast. Check me out if you have a moment.

  • Mantvydas
    15 Posts

    Yea... New gen apps, new gen this, new gen that.

    But who will fix the basic phone functionality? Fewer step address book search, search by any letter combination, contact forward by SMS. Where's the Windows Live integration that WinMobile 6 had -- a backup of SMSes for example. HTML attachment launch problems. Wider international support. You can name and name standard functionalities, that are not implemented.

  • @Captiosus--Be yourself, dude! You often have many interesting things to say and I enjoy reading your comments.

  • camus154
    11 Posts

    @ Mr. Stroh:

    Thank you for listening and responding. And if there's only one suggestion you take back to anybody, please please please let it be for a separate volume control for media playback versus system alarms/calls/texts. It may not seem like a big thing, but if you use your phone like the Swiss Army Knife it wants to be deep down in its silicon heart, you'd be surprised how much this affects that.

    And now I feel somewhat obligated to temper the snark with some positivity. I will say that watching what's coming in Mango gave me back the initial spark I felt towards this platform. If there's anything you guys do second to none, it's most certainly your development stack.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    "Many of you are simultaneously our toughest critics and our staunchest defenders. I respect that, and think others here do as well. I love the passion. Just love it. Because if you didn't care, I assume you wouldn't be here."

    This just about sums it up for me. Many people have accused my negative comments to be somehow indicative of "hating" the platform or "wanting" it to fail, but nothing could be further from the truth. The smartphone market needs more competition, not less, so the last thing I want to see is another platform fall to the Android and iOS behemoths.

    If I didn't care, I wouldn't have this site bookmarked and I certainly wouldn't have joined AppHub.

    However, as an early adopter, I can't help but feel slighted and I can't help but feel we've heard great, groundbreaking promises before that haven't materialized. I am simultaneously excited by what COULD be the future of WP7 and dismayed (and disgusted) by the CURRENT status of WP7, both in terms of the update process and in terms of how the platform is being [mis]treated by carriers. I want WP7 to HAVE a future but with the way things are going, currently, the future of WP7 is really a giant question mark with the future apparently being held captive by carriers and OEMs.

    My comments might be critical, and yes, at times, snarky, but that's just who I am.

  • @Michael Stroh - Thanks for reading our posts and taking the time to comment. That's actually what many of us here want, even if it's just for a few posts but some form of direct communication goes a long way.

  • Office of the VP for AT&T Mobility

    1-800-498-1912

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    Some great stuff announced at MIX - If it all comes off then WP7 should be leading the way! It's great to know what's in store now.

    Can't wait for Mango!

    Still what I and many others would like to know is if there are still going to be smalled updates / fixes before Mango?

  • @edm: The team is very aware of interest in that one. :-)

  • edm
    27 Posts

    @Michael Stroh - Thanks for reading.  Since we are talking suggestions, please, PLEASE provide a fix so we can connect to wireless networks that don't broadcast their SSID's.......HTC just release an app to do that, but I have a Samsung Focus...and that should be done by the OS anyway....

    Thanks for stopping by.

  • @BuckeyeTico: No worries. It wasn't you that I actually had in mind. :-)

    Listen, folks, after doing this for a months, here's what I've observed:. Many of you are simultaneously our toughest critics and our staunchest defenders. I respect that, and think others here do as well. I love the passion. Just love it. Because if you didn't care, I assume you wouldn't be here. (Just know it works both ways: We also love this phone, and fully intend to learn from our stumbles, improve, win back your trust, and make you proud.) Personally, I appreciate the constructive, thoughtful comments more than I do the snarky ones. But, hey, that's just me. All opinions are welcome....as long as they're clean. Because I read this blog aloud to my toddler at night.

    @camus154: You're quite prolific today. Our legal team advised me not to touch your "stones" remark. (OK, not really. But  I won't anyway.)  However I *loved* the post with all your feature suggestions, and will make sure the PM for that area sees your list. Appreciate you taking the time to write those down and send.

  • @ Captiousus – Don’t you think his comments were insulting as well? So, are you saying that because someone is very knowledgeable about business, that person can affront others? I agree with you that my response was too harsh BUT not un-called for.  But overall, I think I owe an apology to all of you –including  ScubaDog, for my terrible outburst.

    @ Michael Stroh – You are right, my apologies.

  • camus154
    11 Posts

    @ BuckeyeTico & ScubaDog:

    Why don't you take your e-fight offline so the rest of us don't have to suffer through any more rehashing of he said/he said?

    @Mr. Stroh:

    Speaking of MIX--I watched the presentation and STILL have no idea who is really holding up the NoDo update.

    Is it YOU or AT&T?

    Does someone actually have the stones to answer that, or do the lawyers have too tight a grip?

    BTW--you may want to update the update page. As others have said, early April has come and gone. Update pages don't do much good if they're....err...out of date.

  • @ ScubaDog – Since you so respectfully replied to my last post, I can only be reciprocal:

    You wrote: “By the way, saying something was a stupid statement is NOT the same thing as saying someONE is stupid.  Quit making things up.”  The problems is that on your original post you wrote stuff like this: “Current phones won't be able to support Mango?  That's the stupidest thing I've seen yet”, “For pity's sake, how can otherwise intelligent people be so dense?”, “You people can't seem to get it through your heads that WP7 was designed from the ground up to run faster and better on less hardware requirements than iOS or Android” or “Use some sense here”.  If these comments are not insulting and condescending, then I don’t know what they are.

    On the other hand, you wrote: “Your statement regarding the hardware was pretty definitive.  You contend that your statement "meant no harm" and yet what you fail to realize is that the certainty with which you made your comment could easily lead others to doubt their devices would have a chance of getting the Mango update.”  The problem here is that I didn’t make any statements, I wrote: “@ Admiral – You know what? You nailed it! That’s exactly what I was thinking about yesterday… That, the current hardware specifications cannot and will not support Mango –and they don’t want to tell everybody that our phones will have to be upgraded to handle this major update.  I am just trying to make sense of all these non-sense, and this theory is the only thing I can think of.” The most I can be guilty of is for speculating about something that has gone wrong from day one and for which, most of us, don’t see a clear horizon.

    I don’t have the connections nor the knowledge to make definitive statements about a platform that I’ve just started to use and love.  If you read around, most of the posts you see here are just plain and simple speculations.  Have a good one.

  • Hey folks, just a reminder.

    Critical talk we can handle (obviously). But clean talk is mandatory. Give a hoot, don't pollute.

    This ends today's public service message. :-)

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @BuckeyeTico - Dude, I've haven't seen eye to eye with Scuba either but the way you treated him was very uncalled for. I know it's the internet and all, but could you at least TRY to act with some degree of civility? If you've read any of his posts, you'll know he probably knows a hell of a lot more about customer satisfaction and business management than most.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    BTW, more info on Mango....it will require 30% LESS memory per app to run and Microsoft has announced that it will be able to comfortably handle 800Mhz processors.  So, even lower-end hardware is going to start popping out with Mango on it.  Since those will be, one would expect, much less expensive, Microsoft might stand a pretty good chance of making a dent (I did say dent) in the market share since more people could afford them.  I'm sure this is in part due to the partnership with Nokia.  It will undoubtedly open up broader lines from the other OEMs, though.  The only thing I wonder about is the potential from frangmentation.  Android is a disaster in that arena.  And the issues that have come up in WP7 OEM differences show there is certainly a danger there as well.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    @BuckeyeTico, you're just too funny.  I'm definitely not in Microsoft's hip pocket, and if you were to read my posts elsewhere you'd know I've shot quite a bit of criticism their way--I won't bother regurgitating the laundry list here.  By the way, saying something was a stupid statement is NOT the same thing as saying someONE is stupid.  Quit making things up.  Your statement regarding the hardware was pretty definitive.  You contend that your statement "meant no harm" and yet what you fail to realize is that the certainty with which you made your comment could easily lead others to doubt their devices would have a chance of getting the Mango update.  And that's simply not true.  As for the WP7/W7 comparison, yes, they are different platforms on different machines.  However, my comparison still has validity because of the fact that experience with W7 shows that just because there's a new OS doesn't necessarily follow that it HAS to have higher hardware standards.  Also, I started with the PocketPC which I then updated to Windows Mobile (twice, actually).  My device was kept up with updates as long as the OEM was able/willing to provide them.  Eventually, of course, the hardware WOULDN'T support the updates--but I got years out of the device.  I was making the case that Mango isn't even a new OS but, rather, a point upgrade it made no sense to assume it wouldn't operate on firstgen devices.  It should be pretty obvious that just because, for example, Mango will support gyros, if your device doesn't come equipped with gyros then it won't prevent the update from functioning, nor will it magically make your device exhibit the characteristics that gyros provided (e.g., like exists in iPhone 4).  Microsoft isn't even requiring new devices to have gyros---it's all up to the OEMs (though if they want to truly compete with the iPhone it would be a wise choice to start including them).  If you look at the details from Mix'11 you can see that almost all of those fixes/features are part of the "basic functionality" that so many people have categorically stated should have been in place at launch--and I don't think there's much disagreement out here on that.  But Microsoft has messed up enough on this whole launch & update debacle without a lot of FUD being produced.  And, latest public apology at Mix'11 included, they STILL aren't coming clean with the situation with AT&T and other carriers.  I don't buy that it's that difficult to know what's going on with the OEMs or carriers.  They are Micrsoft, after all.  It's not like on of us calling up AT&T and saying, "Hey, we made the changes you asked for based on your last testing, you've had this thing for a week---what the heck are you doing with it?"

  • torsus
    7 Posts

    Hey JoeB, finally got to watch the WP7 keynote from yesterday.  I want to say thank for finally being honest and admitting that carriers can indefinitely block updates to WP7 phones.  It is clear as glass once again that MS cares about only it's partners and not ist's most important asset; it's users/customers/consumers.

    Thanks MS, really appreciate how we are being treated.

  • cmwind
    71 Posts

    all i have to say is mango is not coming 2011. it will be done by then. it wont be on consumer phones until 2012. Im guessing Feb or March.

    Prove me wrong MS

  • @ScubaDawg – I normally don’t address people like you BUT at the same time I feel that someone has to tell you the truth: The possibility of current hardware not supporting Mango + versions was just a theory –just to make sense of this non-sense, NO ONE is pointing fingers at ANYONE, yet.  However, who in the hell do you think you are? You are indeed the most stupid (or should I say, the stupidest) person I have ever seen writing here! You take personal a comment that meant no harm.  The level of technical knowledge you might think you may have doesn’t give you the right to insult others here –or anywhere.  And since you are a kiss-MS’s ass, I am sure you have access to the ASUS device they were demo-ing Mango on, so you know the specs of the hardware –oops, sorry… you are so sure that you will bet your left nut on it.  Don’t mix mangoes and apples here, although the concept might give you the field to assume they are the same, WP7 and W7 are not the same and don’t necessarily work the same on their machines.  Next time you want to call someone stupid, use some sense first… or someone will tell you what you don’t want to hear… that you are an idiot!

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    Current phones won't be able to support Mango?  That's the stupidest thing I've seen yet.  Of COURSE the current phones will support it. Don't confuse INDIVIDUAL FEATURS with the entire update.  For pity's sake, how can otherwise intelligent people be so dense?  It's a .5 update, folks.  It's opening up things that are already, in one way or another, capable on the devices but either weren't ready at launch or Microsoft wasn't comfortable allowing developers to play with.  Yes, of course there are a few exceptions, like support for gyros--which no OEM added in current devices and AREN'T REQUIRED TO IN NEXTGEN WP7 PHONES--but that doesn't invalidate the whole things.  You people can't seem to get it through your heads that WP7 was designed from the ground up to run faster and better on less hardware requirements than iOS or Android.  Look at Windows 7.  It actually runs better on older hardware than Vista does!  Yes, there are some features that won't function well (or at all) if your older machine doesn't have enough memory or something other than integrated video, but it definitely performs better as an overall operating system than Vista does on older machines.  Of course, it smokes on a fast machine.  WP7 really is no different.  Now, if you want to talk WP8, which Microsoft seems to be trying to simultaneously develop and dovetail with Windows 8 and IE10, I wouldn't be surprised if it won't support firstgen devices.  And, in my opinion, that's smart.  By that time our devices will be two years old, our contracts will be up and I'll ready to dive into a new device (though I hope it has a lot in common with the Focus---I absolutely LOVE this device).  But, come ON, people, do you think there's anything special about that ASUS device they were using to demo the Mango features at Mix'11?  I can assure there wasn't.  And, by the way, are you not paying attention to Nokia's drive in all this?  It's pronounced "Low-end hardware".  Nokia wants to produce cheaper devices running WP7 (Mango, specifically), so you're not going to see firstgen devices left in the cold....not at all.  Use some sense here.

  • ringi
    5 Posts

    For me to choose a smart phone, the OS vender must think of ME as the customer not the carrier.   When was the last time that a ISP was allowed to block a windows update to a PC?

  • @ Admiral – You know what? You nailed it! That’s exactly what I was thinking about yesterday… That, the current hardware specifications cannot and will not support Mango –and they don’t want to tell everybody that our phones will have to be upgraded to handle this major update.  I am just trying to make sense of all these non-sense, and this theory is the only thing I can think of.

  • Robert
    4 Posts

    When will multitasking be available?  Will Microsoft continue this folly of allowing the carriers to approve/hold their updates of will you give the end user the ability to choose whether he or  she wants to upgrade.  Why haven't or will the next update allow the user to customize ring tones, disable screen lock, and multi tasking.  Also, will the update for zune allow you to see all the apps loaded on the phone and update each app on the laptop instead of having to due all updates through the phones WiFi/3G.

  • be05x5
    4 Posts

    This is great stuff. I really love my Windows phone. Very excited to get the Skype app.

  • naoufal
    3 Posts

    That's pretty cool staff i like it!!

    but what comes to kill apps in multitasking job

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @turtlebreath - That was my take away too. I really would love to hear JoeB elaborate further as to why it's "reasonable" for the carriers to have such an interest in core OS updates when even he pointed out only the OEMs do a lot with the core OS outside of Microsoft. He points out reasons like returns and support, but has he actually dealt with carrier support? It's utterly laughable - they don't TRY to support the device, they point to the handset OEMs! When my son's Evo 4G had issues and we called Sprint, Sprint told me to call HTC. The only "support" Sprint provides is in regards to their network. I won't even get into the joke that is AT&T support.

    Another reason he mentioned was network usage. Honestly, of all the iOS updates, I'd love to see how many of them shot 3G network usage up after release. Network usage is really a non-issue.

    My take away from it was: We took the Apple model, but everyone said we had to act like the Android model because that was "industry standard", and we said OK. We think it's reasonable that you might have to wait months to see a single update or bug fix.

    Reasonable? Hardly.

  • A paraphrase...  " I think it's reasonable to get an update shortly after it's releases."

    My take from Joe's statement on the update is that the end user or developer is less important than the carrier and manufacturer.

  • Microsoft did a great job addressing almost all of the Developer needs at MIX11 so far, now if only they could address the Consumer needs starting with better Communication and less vague postings.

    WP Team - Most of us here are pretty Tech saavy, give us some details of what carriers do in their "testing" process and why it would need to take so long? I mean if it were OEMs doing most of the testing phase i think many of us would be more understanding.

  • @Captiosus - LOL that was good!

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    Further thoughts on Sprint as the new premier partner:

    Why Sprint would be a good choice:

    - Sprint has a small, but fiercely loyal, user base.

    - Sprint has a history of investing in their network more frequently than other national carriers.

    - Sprint has some of the most attractive smart phone plans.

    - Sprint originally had the first go with Android, but now Android is ubiquitous and they need a new marketing angle.

    - Sprint has the two most popular pre-paid systems.

    - Verizon is also CDMA, so working with Sprint aids the introduction and transition of similar devices between Sprint & VZN.

    How to change premier partners from AT&T to Sprint:

    1. Approach Sprint with the offer and get their own testing tools for Microsoft's WP7 labs.

    1A. Send AT&T's testing tools back to AT&T.

    2. One month after Verizon gets the HTC Trophy 7, add it to Sprint's lineup.

    2A. Meanwhile, lean on Samsung and LG to put out at least one more CDMA phone for Sprint.

    2B. One month after Samsung and/or LG put out the new Sprint CDMA phones, add them to Verizon's line up.

    3. Have NOKIA create develop both CDMA and GSM WP7 devices at the same time.

    3A. The first NOKIA WP7 phone - late 2011/early 2012 - should be released for Sprint.

    3B. One month after the first NOKIA WP7 phone hits Sprint, bring it to Verizon.

    3C. Two weeks after Verizon gets their NOKIA WP7 phone, bring the GSM version to AT&T-Mobile.

    3D. Have the other existing OEMs agree to the exact same release schedule (Sprint, then VZN, then AT&T-Mobile).

    4. When the new generation of WP7 phones hit early next year, roll the original HTC Arrive over to Boost Mobile and Virgin Mobile prepaid plans with the phone retailing at 149.99 to 199.99.

    Viola. Sprint gets a new market angle to fill the Android void, as well as timed exclusivity of WP7 devices, including the first NOKIA device. Microsoft gets access to a dedicated fanbase on a carrier with the least amount of complaints and an overall better partner who has been shown to actually care about their network and customers as well as later access to a rapidly growing no-contract market that has shown people will easily pay up to $200 out-of-pocket for a no-contract phone (LG Optimus V - $149.99 and Samsung Galaxy Prevail - $179.99). WP7 will continue to be available to everyone, just at a later time.

    ---

    @ThaRebeliouZ - I was bored and tinkered with Photoshop for a bit tonight and made this. I figured you might enjoy it:

    members.cox.net/.../tmoparody.jpg

  • ibmckay
    8 Posts

    If AT&T/Microsoft doesn't deliver the NODO update soon, I'm unbranding my phone to get he update. As long as you pay for insurance AT&T doesn't care, you just pay your $50 and get a new phone if anything happens.

  • camus154
    11 Posts

    One last thing:

    It's up to us consumers to fight for this, since obviously MS is impotent and AT&T flat out doesn't care.

    I encourage any AT&T customer waiting for NoDo to flood the corporate offices of AT&T with phone calls. You can reach them at 800.283.6407.

    It may not help, but just maybe if enough people call and complain at the highest level, someone might actually start paying attention.

  • camus154
    11 Posts

    Just to add to the "AT&T doesn't care about this platform" line....

    I've contacted AT&T 3 times now asking about the status of the NoDo update. The first two times were calls to customer service that resulted in speaking to 5 different persons, 3 of whom were supervisors, while the last was actually to the executive office of the CEO. The results:

    Customer Service was utterly clueless not just about the update but about WP7 in general. The first lady I spoke with told me to contact either Microsoft or Samsung (I have a Focus) regarding the update. She thought the Samsung Captivate was a Win Phone, then mentioned a Win Mobile 6 phone, and THEN pointed me to a download link on the Focus's website for the updates. Of course the only files listed under that link were user manuals.

    The supervisors were no better. They didn't even know what models of WP7 phones AT&T carries but offered to "look that info up" for me. One of them admitted that they were essentially given a few hours' worth of training to support WP7 and that was it. The only information they had, of course, was what the "system" told them.

    It's very clear that WP7 is nothing more than a footnote for AT&T. I don't know to what extent Microsoft is aware of this, or if they care in light of the other carriers (Nokia, anyone?), but they should.

  • Admiral
    9 Posts

    Huzzah!  More shiny, glittery distractions and no actual progress on THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE facing users and the platform . . . SOFTWARE UPDATES.  I've said before, I'll say it again, for AT&T users NoDo is no go in April.  We MIGHT see it next month . . . maybe.  Suppose a massive security vulnerability is uncovered tomorrow.  What's the process for fixing it?  Wait six months?  I don't think so.

  • Any mentions of Screen Capture for "Mango"?

  • @Captiosus You're definitely on to something here.

    I just seen all these videos from the MIX11 Keynote Joe B did and it just sucks that we won't see all them cool features on our phones for who knows when. Really fraustrating this whole having to wait and wait and wait but then we can't use no Homebrew hacks or anything to give us something that should be delivered by Microsoft not Carriers.

    Not one single detail about Whats being Tested by these carriers still and what caused the Samsung phones to be bricked in the first place... smh.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @ThaRebeliouZ - Indeed. I've been sitting here contemplating the benefits of making Sprint the premier partner. Not only would the carrier be smaller and easier to work with, but there would also be a market to make WP7 phones available on the very successful Virgin Mobile and Boost Mobile prepaid networks - both owned by Sprint.

  • cmwind
    71 Posts

    updates don't matter beacause users don't get them

  • "There's plenty of nationwide carriers in the US and, to date, the only one lacking a WP7 phone is Verizon. AT&T is supposed to be a premier partner but they could care less about the platform. There's no reason to be praising the carriers - it's time to hold them accountable. And if AT&T doesn't care, let's find a new carrier, either Sprint or Verizon, to be the new "premier partner". I bet Sprint would bend over backwards to be the premier partner - they need any market advantage they can in light of this AT&T/T-Mobile merger."-Captiosus

    AppleT&T definitely does not care. Why doesn't Microsoft understand what we're saying all over these blogs. Carrier blocks will  = Death of WP7.

  • camus154
    11 Posts

    @Krush You:

    If by "for the most part" you mean ONE of the points I mentioned will be addressed, then....uh, yeah.

  • gocheif
    10 Posts

    Joe B,

    Very excited about Mango.  Great talk and demos today, except the part about the update process and NoDo, that was the biggest bunch of corporate-speak BS I've ever heard in my life!

  • dkb1898
    167 Posts

    If I'm Verizon, I really see little point in releasing a Windows Phone until Mango. And if I'm in Europe with the lack of services they are provided vs the US, I see almost NO point in releasing until Mango. And as a OEM, I also see little use, which is probably why we haven't seen any "real" new phones since launch, and probably won't until Winter.

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    @Camus - I'm guessing you didn't actually  watch mix  as most of your questions have been answered already...which is yes for the most part...

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    @rlintw - Actually, sometimes it IS more productive to publicly berate a third party who is involved in the supply chain. In this case, the carriers. If, as has been stated repeatedly on this blog by Microsoft folks, the carriers are the roadblock to a smoother update process, I really don't want to hear anyone from Microsoft cozying up to the carriers. I want to hear some anger, some outrage, some leadership from the folks at the top.

    If I were trying to do a critical systems rollout and one of my suppliers was causing a hold up, I'm not going to get up at the next financial meeting and praise the supplier. I'm going to hold my supplier's feet to the fire, especially if said supplier was considered our best, or "premier", partner. If the supplier continues to fail to deliver, I'll shift my allegiances to ones who aren't as lackadaisical.

    There's plenty of nationwide carriers in the US and, to date, the only one lacking a WP7 phone is Verizon. AT&T is supposed to be a premier partner but they could care less about the platform. There's no reason to be praising the carriers - it's time to hold them accountable. And if AT&T doesn't care, let's find a new carrier, either Sprint or Verizon, to be the new "premier partner". I bet Sprint would bend over backwards to be the premier partner - they need any market advantage they can in light of this AT&T/T-Mobile merger.

  • dkb1898
    167 Posts

    @Captiosus - Yup, in my post I wrongly mentioned Spring, I meant Fall. Updating for our phones won't see this until early 2012 and between then and now, well nothing. Worse when the Fall 2012 update comes I'm willing to bet AT&T will delay the hell out of it, or it won't be offered to us. But then again, that gives users more incentive to switch to a real non-premier carrier and get real service.

  • camus154
    11 Posts

    Great...a whole slew of new and exciting features, and yet, just like NoDo, I'm willing to bet that very basic functionality will still be ignored.

    How about separate ringer volumes so you don't miss calls because you were listening to music, or wake up late because you fell asleep to a podcast and thus the alarm failed to wake you up. Or--here's a novel idea: sounding a notification that you've received a text when you're listening to music with headphones?

    How about a built-in stopwatch? How about custom ring tones? Being able to create and modify playlists without needing to use the Zune software? How about a sleep timer that shuts Zune off automatically so you don't drain your battery while listening to audiobooks while falling asleep?

    How about the ability to download podcasts without having to go through Zune?

    How about a phone contact list that organizes your calls according to outgoing/incoming? How about the option of turning off the phone control's ridiculous behavior where it forces you to tap to expand the dial pad, and tap again to get the mute/speaker controls? Apparently MS never thought these devices would be used for work and/or conference calls where you need quick access to such things. WP7 sure does love making you swipe and tap for no good reason.

    How about fixing picture attachments in email accounts? Or live tiles that are actually live, instead of limiting you to either a text or a background image update? The People hub animates quite nicely, but sorry developers....you don't get to leverage Silverlight for such things.

    How about fixing the camera options so it remembers your flash settings instead of defaulting it back to on every time you use it?

    I could go on, but there's really no need. As it stands, MS has out-worn the "initial release" excuse I was willing to grant it back at launch. Surely at least SOME of the above-mentioned functionality would be addressed in the first big update that got so much hype back in the day, right?

    Wrong. It's very clear to me that Microsoft still doesn't understand the mobile space or the "Swiss Army knife" role mobile devices tend to play. I used my iPhone for damn near everything--a music player, a phone, a chat client, an alarm clock, etc.

    But hey! At least we have copy/paste now!

    Well, some of us, at least. Us AT&T customers are still waiting for ANY update to WP7. We still don't really know WHO is testing WHAT, despite all the lovely "Where's my update" pages MS has thrown up in an apparent attempt to assuage the concerns of customers who are getting both impatient and angry.

  • dkb1898
    167 Posts

    Let's face it, in WP time, Spring really means Winter and Winter really means Late Winter....I expect to see this update in "standard time" early 2012 on my phone, on new phones late 2011. So in between then I'll get to see what...no progress, and users buying new phones that have capabilities I don't have.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    A couple of edits to my initial post:

    I see Angry Birds (which isn't the game I'm actually most stoked for in the promotion, that would be Hydro Thunder Go) was given an actual release date of May 25th, so my "guessing" was misguided, though mostly accurate. Still, it's month and 12 days away when it should have been out in MARCH (just think, it could have helped save face with this update mess). At least it's not pushed all the way into June.

    And the press release says Mango is on schedule to be delivered by the end of the year. Not fall, but END of the year?!? That's even WORSE than fall. Now you're talking about late November through December before the next major platform update is out of Microsoft's hands, with nothing in between, and, after this mess, means we probably won't see it on end user devices until this time NEXT YEAR. All these great features you're talking about that will come alongside Mango probably won't even be available until February - April, 2012.

    Consider, please, that iPhone (and iOS) 5 are probably going to be out by Winter 2011, and Android Dev will likely have a near-release version of Honeycomb 3.0 or 3.3 for smartphones in the same time frame. Microsoft needs to catch up, fast and this just isn't going to cut it.

  • roteague
    26 Posts

    So, when are all these neat things due? 2012, 2013?

    Why should we care about what is coming, if we can't get a simple update? Even the Feb update isn't out for many users, and it's mid-April now.

    Sorry, but I've lost trust in Microsoft. Get the Feb and March updates out, then I'll re-evaluate that trust, but until then, this is nothing more than continued blowing smoke in our directions, hoping we won't notice.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    Well, I'll admit I was wrong - I believed Joe wasn't going to be taking the stage at all. At least judging by the schedules that were available online.

    That said, I'll fall back to what I said previously: How am I supposed to be enthused about Mango, at all, when I know:  A) It's not even slated to come until this fall, which, even with a perfect update process, is a ludicrous time table and B) it's going to suffer the exact same problems we're going through now and will probably take several additional months to go from Microsoft to the hands of the end users?

    Let's hypothetically say that, by some kind of magic, everyone manages to have 7008 and 7390 by tomorrow. That means from tomorrow until late this fall - possibly later depending on carriers getting the updates out -  there's no updates, no bug fixes. The platform is going to be stagnant for another five to seven months. That's no way to run a smartphone platform in this day and age. You can't take the Xbox Dashboard Update style (two per year, tops, Spring & Fall) and think it's going to keep your mobile platform relevant.

    I was an early adopter of WP7 because you guys made lots of promises, but, so far you've failed to deliver on them. Here we are again, in a very similar situation where lots of promises are being made, and I can't help but feel it's all ultimately meaningless given the mess over the last 6 months.

    And May for the Must Have Games promotion? Come on. I understand it says "XBOX Live" on it, but that doesn't mean it needs to follow the same silly XBLA schedule. One *official* game per week is ridiculous. As I posted over on Xbox.com, there's a terrible "turd-to-gem" ratio of official games with most of them trending towards the turd side. Microsoft needed these "Triple-A" portable games to be out LAST MONTH to drive interest in the mobile XBL feature to those people on the fence, not wait another month to two months! "Where's Angry Birds" is one of the most frequently asked questions on the WP7 Facebook page. Oh well, at least I know I shouldn't expect anything but mediocrity for the next couple of weeks.

  • "What’s next for Windows Phone?" I think most early adopters not....inlude me.

  • rlintw
    13 Posts

    @piaqt: Yeah, because it would be so much more productive to publically berate your partners.

  • There's cool stuff coming.... but when?  Until the team has a proven track record of delivering updates, that's going to be the question.

  • piaqt
    13 Posts

    @a688 Amen. JoeB's keynote started by kissing carrier ass, segued into blowing smoke. So "we have learned from this" is, at best, delusional.

  • a688
    27 Posts

    So if this update is "done" later this year then we should expect it sometime next May if we are with ATT correct? I hear Joe saying "we have learned from this" but I for one would like actual evidence. Can you please toss out a simple bug fix update like in June/July to prove to us that you can "finish" an update and get it into the hands of customers within a reasonable (1 week or less (hopefully less)) amount of time? There are some nice features coming with Mango and if the process to get that update is even a third as bad as this one has been then I'd imagine most people will still consider it a complete failure again by you guys to be able to do an update.

  • Guys, what about accepting credit card from countries all over the world? I develop for WP7 (through kinda Friend Publisher), I own WP7 but why can't I buy my own app?! This thing is the only one that bothers me heavily.