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Hi everyone. Today we began delivering the March update to Telstra customers in Australia. (This update also includes 7392, the fraudulent certificate update I mentioned last week.) That’s the only new change to the Where’s my phone update? table.
I know some of you are eager for news on the Omnia 7 and Focus issues I discussed last week. We’re making progress, but I don’t have anything new to report just yet. As soon as I do, I’ll let you know.
Eric Hautala, GM, Customer Experience Engineering
May 18 and still no update for Omnia 7. What is going on?
My Omnia 7 got updated before it was withdrawn and I've had no issues - but my partner's and sister's Omnia 7s are still waiting -
@Eric you said that "The new package is nearly ready," so why there is a delay can we have some details on what the problem is and how long you guys need to fix this ? weeks, months
June is close and we will bein in 2nd half of 2011 - Is that still an Early 2011 update ?
I have a lot more confidence now that Microsoft, and the phone Manufacturers realize what it takes to get out an update successfully. I'm looking forward to a successful Mango update, with every passing week my confidence in this ecosystem is growing. Here's to hoping you promise and deliver!
Updating Omnia 7 (from T-Mobile) in UK:
1. Feb update went through smoothly on 24/05/11. It was slow, but I was patient and all worked.
2. 7392 failed after about 20 minutes. I'd already updated Zune, took the battery out of the phone (and put it back!) and had plenty of memory on PC/phone. It failed with Error Code 801812DD (couldn't create a backup of phone).
3. I then tried many things (e.g. tried the Samsung support tool (it just waited & waited to 'find the phone' and never entered the download mode), uninstalled the PC driver for the Omnia 7 (& re-installed it), repeadedly tried to update again via Zune). I ocassionally got different errors. None of them shed any light really.
4. It then worked. Another attempt via Zune and the 7392 installed happily. It took about 30 minutes. Why did it work that last time? I wish I could tell you. I did ensure (that successful time) that I swapped to use the USB cable that came with the Samsung & used a USB socket on the rear of the PC. Did that do the trick? I doubt it, as a non-Samsung cable plugged into the front worked for the 1st update. So it was probably some combination of re-installing drivers and prayer.
5. So sort-of-happy but mystified.
That's just hope Omnia 7 folk get Mango on time and it installs without all this messing. Mango looks worth having, this update isn't such a big deal (in my opinion).
I just have one question for Microsoft and anyone who can help me here.HOW CAN I UNINSTALL BING MAPS?
I have been misdirected about 3 times by my bing map directions which has driven me crazy about this faulty app,
I like to spend some quality time reading this blog researching a topic, reading existing articles. A great knowledge bank on good topics..!
Some news and final thoughts on the NoDo saga with Telstra (after speaking with them) on my blog: www.sheeds.com.au/blog
I hope mango update would be released soon for telstra
thanks! MS for ur better supporting .
just received 7392, too...
updated without the samsung tool (just through zune)
mine it's an unbranded omnia 7 and got the update a couple of hours ago. keep checking manually on zune cause i didnt get a notification on the phone.
Still no March update on my Omnia 7 is there any official news on this plzzzzzzzzzz??
NoDo and Update 7392 heve been released for Omnia 7. My Omnia 7 has been updated w/o a problem. THANK YOU, WINDOWS PHONE TEAM :-)
Update 7392 released for Omnia 7. Just installed it! Everything ok! Thanks MS
I second dkb1898's comment above. Please let us know what's going on with the 7392 update. We're just waiting, with zero information being provided on the rollout of this "critical security fix".
Eric, for this weeks update I'd like to see the status of the 7392 update much like the other updates...many of us haven't received this yet
My Omnia 7 got updated before it was withdrawn and I've had no issues - but my partner's and sister's Omnia 7s are still waiting - March update huh?!?
Omnia 7 is taking much time to launch I feel as it has taken much time it would the better one
or even "we thought we'd fixed it, but it turns out samsung have used so many variations of components we have gotten confused and can't remember which ones work and which dont and its easier just to rewrite the whole damn OS"... thats what would happen if I was in charge. probably for the best we leave em too it for a bit.....
I think a simple "Don't worry Omnia owners... your phone will get nodo & mango, we can't give a date as its having to go through testing again, sorry about that" statement would stop so many peoples anger it seems crazy there hasn't been one.
@ Paul webster as there has been no answer yet i've come to the conclusion that even if that was the case they couldnt say as sales of the Omnia would stop dead and samsung would go mental... although it must be hurting sales at the moment not knowing. If this problem had been public when I ordered my phone a month or so back I would have been scared to order one and probably sacrifised the better screen for one of the others.
I love my Omnia 7 and dont mind too much waiting but as sirrusty has already said are we going to have thid problem with every update that comes down the pipe?
When the horse is dead, dismount. There are some of us who are flat out going to disagree. I don't say the complaint are invalid--I've made many of the same complaints. But it's the same old whine-fest. Nobody is saying anything new.
@ammughal My bluetooth is still working with this replacement phone.. i've hammered it this weekend testing it, calls are good quality and the hiss present (when it could connect) during music playback that was on the old handset has gone.. seems there are definetly good ones and bad ones.. i'd try for a replacement if I was you.. just one point, the box on the new one had been opened before so maybe they went through their stock and tested to find a good one before sending it to me.
It's been eleven days since Eric told us that Omnia 7 updates are just about to be ready to be dispatched again - and even though negative comments start popping up like snowflakes in Siberia in this blog there's no "official" Microsoft reaction - that's a real shame - or is it, 'cause you guys working so hard on getting the NoDo and 7392 to evereyone??? Actually, I doubt that... :(
WP7 fan here but getting disappointed more and more each day the longer it's taking to get nodo on my samsung omnia 7. i've been patient and figured it will come eventually but we're not getting any update as to how the situation is going or how far away it is. I'm a developer and if my customer wants a feature or bug fix I always give them an ETA. ETA 's aren't that hard to give. Playing it safe by not telling us just frustrates the heck out of us.
Can't believe I held off for this long in this thread....OK....going for it....
G O L F C L A P T E L S T R A ! ! ! !
If I could speak Spanish - I would have been calling Telefonica to urge them to pass it before you did, just so you could be last in the world. Ah Well - we still have Mango to try for that don't we Telstra.....
I gave windows phone a chance and swapped from an iPhone 4 to an Omnia 7 because it should be the flagship device. I like the OS but it is lacking in so many areas! If it doesn't get the NoDo update very very soon I will be selling it and moving platform because I have no faith that I will get Mango. I will also convince everyone I know that has a phone due upgrading never to get a windows phone, that is how annoyed I am, I specifically waited until NoDo was released before I bought into the system and then before I could update it was pulled. An honest answer about a time scale in days/weeks/months would even make me happier
After one month with the Omnia 7 i ordered a Galaxy S2. Now i will watch the downfalll of Windows Phone 7
@ Captiosus & Kenny Rawlins ---- I like your comments and fortunately the current smart phone market is very competitive and smart phone users will easily find their preferred OS. Microsoft has a long way to go. Google releases its new Android OS in fall 2011 and Apple’s new iPhone will be available in fall 2011, so again Microsoft is falling behind. If WP7 had all the Mango features today, it could partially win. Fall 2011 is simply too late and most new and current smart phone users will be busy with new Android and iOS products in the coming fall.
Can I just quicky point out and say that everyone who feels there has been false promisses in advertising (i cant comment because i've never seen a windows phone 7 advert and didnt read any press statements, i just naturally migrated from win mobile 6.5) this is actually quite a serious allegation if true and there are official channels to have those prommises investigated differing depending on where you are in the world especialy if you are as angry as you seem at the situation.
Again i'm impartial on this and am happy enough with my phone and definetly was not mis-sold anything as I made a choice based on previous good experiences with winmob6.5 and older, if however you purchased your device based on information in an advert or advertising wrapped as an official statement that proves not to be true you have grounds to complain through advertising standards agensies and maybe even get your contracts nulled and money refunded... however if the promisses (real or percieved) came from blog posts or the views of one employee not provably speaking on behalf of the company you would have problems as I dont think they can be seen as company promisses by law, however companies can be held resposible at some level for their employees actions unless they state they are not the views of the company at the time. If (as some of you do) you feel cheated and let down as much as you seem to and have any facts to back up claims of false advertising you should persue them and let a third party decide if you was mis-sold your devices, I know in the UK you can arrange a free meeting with people like the citizens advice bureau who will tell you straight away if they believe you have a leg to stand on, or if you shouldnt have taken them as prommises within a certain timeframe.
I really hope everyone here ends up satisfied, whether that being walking away or sticking with it.
@Captiosus,you're completely right,all what Mango is bringing is what smartphones had since 2009.For anyone who wants features on his or her phone the better thing to do is to quit WP7.but if you are a MS fan like me and who loves a new UI stick around with WP7 and stop yelling,coz things wouldn't change,no matter all the 2015 forecast MS is showing around saying they'll overtake Android.
-First those forecasts are based on the Droids market right now,not taking into consideration how innovative Android is,and not considering their future phones.and I don't see how WP7 will overtake Android,with the its sales falling at a shameful rate that even MS don't publish it,and its Catastrophic lack of features.
-I don't see how WP7 will do well,when Samsung,LG have no plans for future WP devices,and I don't see Nokia devices being welcomed in North America were in Canada for example only Rogers has one Nokia smartphone which I haven't seen any one on the streets with.
-Sony Ericsson has clearly stated they don't give a damn about WP7 because its not doing well and they don't see it picking up the pace of the smartphone market.In Europe iOS and Symbian rule,for example all major TV channels like Euronews,France24,IDF1....have individual apps to stream them live on the iPhone but nothing for WP7,even here in Canada I don't see any major TV channel's app for live streaming for WP7,not even banking apps were as all banks have iPhone apps.
You don't expect to have a crappy start and then walk your way to the top even if your name is Microsoft,when you can't quickly fix the premature OS you put on market at the price of a smartphone and you expect someone to risk spending that much money again in the future
Addendum after reading the back and forth with BuckeyeTico, ScubaDog and dkb:
Sorry but I have to agree with Buckeye on several of his points.
Press statements designed to sell devices are, in fact, promises. Microsoft essentially promised to be in control of the update cycle, and that said update cycle would be timely and frequent. It was in the press releases they barraged IT folk with trying to get developers (and savvy consumers) interested and these PR statements assuaged many of our fears about the updates of the device, which we knew were lacking, and gave us motivation to buy a WP7 device. We were told - nay, promised - they were going to bring the device to a state of semi-competitiveness within a reasonable time frame. A year and two months from RTM IS NOT a reasonable time frame - not while Google and Apple are putting out several incremental updates and a few larger ones in the same period of time. You will have to pardon me if I'm still angry about the fact that Microsoft sold us on the idea that they were going to manage the phone like Apple, with control of the OS and update process, only to turn around and do a complete 180 and say the carriers run the updates like Android.
Also, I will re-ask what he asked: What, exactly, has Eric done other than be a blog poster? I've gotten more relevant information from Paul Thurrott and ChevronWP7 than from Eric or the vast majority of the official staff here at Windows Blog. In fact, Microsoft has done EXACTLY as I expected them to. Blog posts dried up and they shut up, by and large, once the updates had been delivered to most North American customers. No more accountability over why the process went horribly wrong, or active discussion about how to fix it, just, "you have them now, we're done". Meanwhile, we still don't have an official Connect discussion site for WP7 and myriad of suggestions to improve the platform have gone unpublished due to a lack of a unified community or have fallen on deaf ears in the various fragmented community sites, such as this one and Paul's WP7 Secrets site.
In that regard, things aren't "turning around" at all. Eight months in, and everything Microsoft used to sell the phone to consumers and IT professionals has turned out to be misinformed, at best, or an outright lie, at worst - and now they want us to wait AT LEAST another six to seven months before a major update? As previously mentioned, AT&T still says it's Microsoft's ball, Microsoft still says it's the carriers' ball. Nothing has changed. The terrible PR hasn't changed, the broken promises (statements) haven't changed, and the phone still is not competitive with Android or iPhone (and won't be, on this ridiculous update schedule)
Finally, I am very dismayed to see some responses are devolving into ZDNet style of "comments" where any critical comments, even if they're well thought out and reasoned, immediately get the poster labeled a "hater". Those kind of responses are the lowest possible retort, and possibly the worst type of personal attack. I cannot fathom when critical thought became so frowned upon that if you dare to question you're immediately put down. Must be something the internet age invented, because I was taught critical thought and speaking out with critical comments and questions was an ADMIRABLE trait.
@dkb1898: The wolves have stopped circling? Hardly. We've just wizened up and gotten a better device. I'm not going to sit around waiting on Mango to get functions phones have had since late 2009-early 2010, just to go through this botched upgrade process again. By the way, I spoke with someone at the Office of the President at AT&T yesterday who finally got back to my e-mail from a month ago. AT&T, even though updates are out, still swears it's Microsoft's job to deliver to the end-use while Microsoft says it's the carriers' job, so NOTHING has been learned from this mess and don't expect Mango to go any better.
You keep saying Fall for Mango, but go back and re-read everything that has been said about Mango. Joe B clearly stated it wasn't going to be done until the end of the year. That means Mango isn't going to be deployed on NEW PHONES until late 2011, probably to butter up to NOKIA, and we won't see updates for existing phones for several months into 2012 - and then have to be right back here complaining about carriers blocking the updates.
Meanwhile, LG and Samsung have clearly shown, through their statements, that they have NO love for WP7 which means it's unlikely they will be bringing out a second generation device for the platform. Why would they? They get easier access to Android with less hassle and restriction.
The NOKIA-MS collaboration is a case study in failure. MS heavily promotes the North American market where NOKIA is all but dead. NOKIA is great in Europe and Asia, neither market gives a flying crap about WP7. And not having devices until late 2011, early 2012 is a death sentence. No regular bug fixes, no regular update schedules beyond one major update per year, Office Integration is trash, and XBL has turned out to be a joke (lol@$2.99, 30 year old, emulated games)... The WP7 ship sailed, and crashed right into an iceberg.
So, yeah, the wolves have stopped circling. Because we ditched the sinking platform for a different one. At least with my Droid phone, if the carriers are taking too long, I can update the damn thing myself instead of having to pointlessly yell at all parties involved hoping said yelling gets a resolution.
@ammughal just got updated to 7008 and the bluetooth still works. I'm gonna stop posting here for a bit as its fast becomming the sirrusty show and most people probably wont care about the bluetooth issues or the ramblings of a fool, if you want any help or further information to assist with your bluetooth problems feel free to email me at firstname.lastname@example.org or use the message thingy here.
Just to clairfy what i meant in my last post as I seem to be winding people up, when you cram a camera, wifi, bluetooth, touch screen, full PC features, slide out qwerty keyboards, mp3 players, sat nav (hopefully, i miss copilot live.), oraganisers and a phone into one device there is just more chance of a part of it breaking.
@jasdeep.. I never used to make any claims for broken or dodgy handsets till phones beacame "smart".. since then Ive had at least 3 of every type of phone i've had... I think quality has given way to features. Best claim I made was about 10 years ago when I knew i'd had my phone in my car because i'd made a call on it.. but on getting to my destination I couldnt find it in the car... I called up and told the truth and they just sent me a new one. well worth the money (on orange in the UK anyway)
@ammughal.. Got replacement... Its working at the moment. I disconnected and reconnected several times to test and also turned bluetooth on and off and it still works and connects automatically if my Bluetooth helmet is on. I won't get to exited as the old phone worked for a few days.
os version 7.7.7004.0 (no updates.. my other one was 7008)
firmware revision: 0126.96.36.199
hardware revision: 188.8.131.52
radio software: 24184.108.40.206
Radio hardware version: 0.0.0.800
Bootloader version: 220.127.116.11
Chip SOC version 0.36.2.0
i wish i had insurance for my OMNIA7, i would have driven my road train over it!!
Are you kidding us?! In half of May some users including me still haven't got NoDo even Pre-Nodo(February update!)
@ammughal thanks. i'm not expecting it to work first go but will get a new phone every two days till it does! after 5 replacements for the same problem they offer a list of alternative phones (i couldnt take that option with my dodgy Toshiba TG01s as it was far beyond the specs and screen size of the others at the time), by which time hopefully we may have more info on whether I should stick with the Omnia 7 or jump ship. It would be a shame as I love the screen and OS. I guess i'm lucky in that as I pay for extra insurance every month I dont have to send the broken ones away for repair as they collect them within 24 hours at the same time as dropping the new ones off... must cost them a fortune/
if I get a working one i will give you its details suchs as radio versions etc so you can request the same.
@Sirrusty good luck with the new phone, let us know if that fixes the Blueooth issue,
as thats the only reason I am still carying my IPod Touch with me, once you get used to wirefree headphone its impossible to go back to using wired ones,
@BuckeyeTico - Trust me if you saw the comments in this forum 2-3 months ago, they would make yours look like the writings of Ghandi. A lot of us were literally livid, we've since tempered expectations as the WP team has stopped telling the mis-truths they led us to believe in the second half of 2010. Massive screw up the first 5-6 months after release...YES. But you can't expect a complete 180 overnight, at this point we just need steady progress and accountability. The 180 isn't complete, but from where they were 2-3 months ago, they have certainly gone at least 45 degrees.
@ScubaDog2011 yeah sorry about that.. I don't wish anyones phone gets bricked, it was just a roundabout way of asking someone to chill out (hence the line before saying "if you don't change your attitude")...I guess I just have something in me that types faster than I think and should have known humour doesnt translate to blog comments too good. I also appologise for the description of what i said i'd do if I was Eric.. again doesn't read as humour and looks like i'm being nasty... It was just me imagining what I would do if some one slagged me off on my companies website and I had the power to take revenge. Looking back through the commentsI probably don't take this whole thing as serious as some of you guys so if my banter offended anyone whoops, sorry.
yes i've been defending microsoft about this update (i've worked for massive IT companies in the past and know all the red tape and secrets that go on) I don't think its right.. just a reality of big business. anyone who did know me in 3D would struggle to call me a "fan-boy", I'm actually more of a fan boy of fender guitars and beer.. again this is a side effect of commenting on blogs against the opinion of the majority of posts and I knew that when I first commented saying i wasnt worried about this update.. as long as I could get Mango.
@Sirrusty, okay, to be fair, I don't think you should wish anyone's phone gets bricked. @BuckeyeTico's anger and frustration are pretty righteous, even if I disagree with some of his definitions or characterizations. Personal attacks don't have any place in the discussion, really. I would love for everyone's phones to get fixed and be brought up to date. I would love for noone to feel like they have to unlock their phones or use other workarounds just to get updates that Micrsoft says are now rolling out. It would be nice to know who is ultimately deciding the WP7 update tempo and why they believe huge batch & queue is better than a small-but-frequent updates. It's probably a decision being made far above those actually tasked with working the updates. My opinion, of course.
@yaoyang, you're seeing one of the huge issues I have with ANY carrier being involved in updates or software at all. I remain convinced that they don't have any worthwhile talent to be doing it in the first place, and they certainly have no substantive structure for true customer support. There absolutely should be department, easily discoverable and reachable by customers, responsible for maintaining all pertinent knowledge of the devices they are carrying and the update processes & status. But you will not find that at AT&T. The best you can hope for is to post on AT&T's Facebook page. Sometimes they will address customer concerns directly, but it always starts with something like "Contact me at xxxxxxxxx so I can have a chance to resolve your issue". This implies that there is no real department for WP7 or device update issues, but rather they have to start a chain of events and contacts that hopefully result in a phone call or email to someone who has a clue at AT&T. More often than not, AT&T will give you the same answer we've seen here: "We have no new information, but we'll update you when we do".
@BuckeyeTico, I didn't accuse you of saying you didn't do you homework. However, when you posted that you paid $200 and signed a 2-yr contract for a phone that lacks essential components, that sounds allt he world like the disdain of someone who feels duped. If you did your homework, then you knew up front that it lacked "essential components". So, why so much angst if you knew what it had and what it didn't?
I do remember that Backstage. I do not recall seeing anything that was an explicit, exclusive statement that could be taken as a promise for the things you mentioned. I think the only argument you really have there is on the subject of the OTA, and even then I'm convinced this ended up being a game of words that led us to believe one thing when the truth would turn out be something different. The OTA part, as it turns out, is nothing more than the notification piece. From a customer perspective, I thought it was stupid to offer OTA updates in the first place. The data costs, the size of most of their updates and the need to backup the phone make the sensibility of updating any way other than via a sync a dangerous prospect. But it looks like you are going to insist that just about anything Microsoft says is to be taken as a promise, and that's something I cannot agree with. We'll have to agree to disagree, as they say.
As for the blame game, it also looks like there's no way I'm going to convince you that "owning the playground" means you actually have total control. Any parent can tell you that even after just being told not to do something that their children can (and often do) go right out and disobey. I don't imagine that the OEMs came back after starting up mass production and got further blessings from Microsoft. What I DO believe is that what we have here was a costly teachable moment for ALL the players, and that hopefully what the OEMs learn is that there is a REASON for taking Microsoft (or any OS-maker) seriously when they say "DON'T DEVIATE FROM THE APPROVED VERSION".
As for expectations, I can't totally disagree with you there. I'm huge on Voice of the Customer, and that is one area where I place 100% of the blame on Microsoft. It's an area they are starting to make some improvements on but are still a long way from really getting it. But, just because expect something doesn't mean Microsoft (or any vendor) will deliver it or even HAS to deliver it. Also, examine what you are basing your expectations on. Are you really basing it on what Microsoft "promised", or on what other smartphones (or even Microsoft's older mobile platforms) had to offer? I suspect more the latter, given your complaint that WP7 came lacking components of other smartphones. Let me caution you on one thing. You mentioned that Microsoft sold this as being a new approach in an OS. I contend that they solidly delivered on that. The unspoken, perhaps unintended consequence is that a lot of features we see in other platforms weren't there. In their own words, some of those features were an intentional aspect of the "new approach". Just read why they chose not to have a way to save camera settings. Read why they didn't initially have copy & paste. They had specific reasons, albeit ones that did NOT take into account the VOC, for doing it the way they did. I do not, however, believe Microsoft "made" you believe anything. We believe what we choose to believe. You can fault them for false advertising, if you like, and I doubt you'll find too many who disagree. I absolutely believe WP7 is a new user experience, even as it is, missing components and all.
As customers, we certainly have every right to express our voice with the hope that Microsoft (and don't think for a second that the iPhone lovers didn't go through this and the Android lovers aren't going through this right now) will listen and work to address those concerns. I tend to look at all of this very similarly to how Paul Thurrott does (though I disagree on a few things), and I don't think there's a MUCH talent working WP7 as you might think. I'm sure you've seen the various laundry lists of "wants" or "demands" that WP7 users have posted elsewhere. And many of those lists have features that directly conflict with each other, not to mention possibly conflicting with the core design of the OS. Just how simply is it, really, to reconcile those desires and incorporate them? And how much harder is it when OEMs are jacking around with your specs? Oh, and then you have carriers who insist in slipping in their useless bloatware. So, while I'm not giving Microsoft a pass, my expectations are now tempered by what I know about the current arrangements between Microsoft, OEMs and carriers (known only because we finally brow-beat Microsft into sharing at least some of it).
As for the "brat" comment, I was both referring to your summary dismissal of @Sirrusty as a "fanboy" and your personal attack of the WP7 GM as well as use of foul language. Your anger and frustration is completely understandable and mostly justified, and all of us are guilty of going overboard at one point or another. In this case, inasmuch as @Sirrusty may have sounded like a "fanboy" you sounded like a "hater" (which I don't think you are).
@ dkb1898 – I am trying to give it up but you are not letting me! I hate to be arguing about something so trivial but since you insist…
Come on man! Do you really believe that “things” are really turning around? Let’s poll everybody in here (just as a small sample) and then you will realize how frustrated and unsatisfied most people are about how “things” are progressing. And, do you really believe Eric deserves any credit? What for? He doesn’t even bother to address at least the most important of our questions or concerns. I personally don’t have anything against him (I bet he probably is a good son, husband and father) but he happens to be the person in charge of our customer satisfaction. All I hear is excuses; do you know what my boss always tells me? “I don’t want to hear excuses or justifications, just make it happen!”
On the other hand, like most of you, I have owned and worked on many different devices running MS software for a long time. I even picked an Xbox 360 when shopping around for my 7 year-old son’s first game system. After my first cell phone; which was a bulky Ericsson, I have owned smartphones running Windows Mobile. And since I have been a long-time Sprint customer, I had to wait until the end of March to finally buy my WP7 to finally replace my old-friend WM6.5. Now, if that’s a MS hater, then I don’t know how much more love I can give…
The difference is that I am critical and tend to say what other don’t want to say or don’t want to hear. I admit, I can be a little too harsh but guess what? Life isn’t fair, life is tough and if you can’t handle the pressure, then you need to find a different job. Just a thought…
@ammughal here is a thread.. the post at the bottom gives me some hope.. not much, but some.
The call quality was actually good on mine when it worked, a bit of background hiss litening to music but on a motorbike I can live with that.. I just put it down to the volume level you need to hear it over the engine.
@ ammughal thanks for the link... That is a long thread!! Ihave also read threads where phones that just say searching all the time like mine have been sucsessfully replaced.. I'm sure you are right and it wont be that easy. Unfortunetly for me not having working blue tooth audio is a deal breaker as i'm self employed and need to be available on long motorbike journeys.. I have faith in getting some type of solution.. I've found if you are nice to support staff you are more likely to get a solution of some kind... i might as well try the replacement anyway.. fingers crossed.
new Omia7 is not going to fix the problem as its a software issue
let me point you to the right direction
I have been stuck with this for long time and I realized the problem the day I received Omnia7
Fair play to Orange in the UK.. I just called them up to tell them I seem to have one of the Samsung Omnia 7s with dodgy bluetooth I mensioned in the post above and they said they will send a brand new one (not a dodgy recon) to be with me between 9am and 1pm tomorrow (delivery on a saturday)... can't really argue with service like that!
Just a heads up... It is true that the staff there do not seem to have been briefed on the WP7 platform at all and you have to bite your toung when they tell you to make sure you remove the SD card, check bluetooth settings that dont exist and end up telling them more about the phone than they have available to them.. but on the whole a pleasant experience.
As with what the rest have shared, I have called up my carrier and Samsung. No one seems to know anything about WP7 updates, nor were there any explanation given. "I don't know, no one told me anything." becomes a standard answer.
Seriously, I like my WP7 phone. As for this issue, both Microsoft and Samsung should share equal responsibility. We bought the phone based on our preference on both the OS and Brand/Model of the phone. Both of them should support the product life all the way.
One thing I find it weird with Samsung is that it is not very customer orientated, even when it pumps in so much money into marketing and branding. I have been using Samsung for the last three phones I owned, and they always tell me that they will only update the firmware while the phone is within the warranty period . This is so calculative and a turn off, when a customer is not even asking for repairs and just update of firmware.
My experience with Canon cameras is right at the extreme positive side, I would rate them 5 stars. Can you believe it when they repair my camera after the warranty has void for more than 1 year because they admitted to me that one of its component is known to be faulty. My loyal to this brand will stay as long as they deliver.
Frankly, I would elevate this case to crisis level based on the early adopters bad experiences and initial product launch. Like in many crisis, a responsible authority should appease or comfort the victims till the crisis is resolved or a permanent solution is met. Think back on some of the customer recovery efforts by some of the good airlines, free food, free lodging, cash compensation, upgrades and etc.
Coming back to the iphone poor reception scenario, Apple did carried out some form of customer recovery but not enough from my standpoint. (since business is about making money, and many neglect long term loyalty) But there are still many Apple addicts out there to ignore the flaws because of better proposition Apple offered to them through multiple fun (time wasting) apps.
Really hope Microsoft and Samsung can come through on this issue soon, and top it up with exceptional service recovery package (marginal costs to them) to its users.
What is really interesting is that people say the same things everyday and express the same anger day by day but still nothing is changing.its kinda getting creepy to be seeing the same comments and stories here.lets turn this blog into something productive,like new tricks and workarounds on this platform(more like a forum,with Q and A),or anything productive about this platform
P.S. I learned some guys are working on running Android on the HTC HD7 and they're making some pretty good progress
Thanks.. if a bit of commedy comes out of this i'll be happy. ironically.. i just went to connect my bluetooth to my motorbike helmet and it wont connect anymore, tried everything... so i've got to send my omnia 7 back anyway!
lol u guys make me laugh somethings i love reading this blog
Live is very simple but we atimes tend to make it hard,we bought WP7 and we're pretty much disappointed(well I am,especially coming from a Omnia 2),but what can we customers do about it?NOTHING.
Blaming whosoever,expressing our frustration and creating a battlefield can't help but frustrate us more.
The only advice i can give to all frustrated and angry WP7 users as me is to either sell your WP(if u'll find a buyer),or stick with it and just stay away from any news or blogs about WP,atleast till January 2012.hoping for the best
@BuckeyeTico - Give it up man, your a day late and a dollar short. Many of us on here were highly critical of the WP Team MONTHS ago when it mattered. Now things sure seem to be turning around, and Eric deserves some credit, accept it!
Otherwise go buy an damn iPhone or Android, your starting to sound like a Microsoft hater...our passion was because we believed in this platform and though MS was blowing it and overpromising. In the words of John Rambo...Let it go!
I was just trying to point out initially that personal insults at microsoft team members was not going to help any of us get the information we are after... the reverse would be true. but now i have actually developed a dislike of impatiance and the rudeness that follows it... i visited this blog eager for information and just ended up realising i dont like impatient people and do not wish to be one myself... a good day to you all and take as long as you want to get it right.
In fact if I was Eric i'd send you and update notification, get you all exited as the phone is obviously the biggest thing in your life then i'd flash it with smartphone2002 and a Wallpaper that just says GROW up in the random capital letter style that you seem to love so much. these are real people working to give you a better phone and you sir seem like you just don't deserve their efforts... Thanks. "A fan boy"
@BuckeyeTico threats to someone who stuck up for me because I stuck up for someone who you insulted... this is getting crazy.. unless you change your attitude rather quickly i trully hope you are the last person to get the update and your phone is bricked.
A solution would be a "Where's my phone update?" table with the manufacturer models and their actual (update) status on an official Microsoft page. Manufacturers should have to get a move on, it would be in their own interests.
@ ScubaDog2011 – Let’s see where I can start off with:
You wrote: “you cannot seriously expect us to believe you had no idea what your WP7 device had or lacked before you purchased it, can you? How did you not fully research it?” --Where and when did I write that I had no idea what I was buying when purchasing my WP7? It happened before and again I will tell you: don’t put words in my mouth that I have not said! I have been reading this blog since June of last year AND yes, I knew what I was getting into.--
You wrote: “As for what you call "promises", you are dead wrong. A statement is not the same as a promise. I saw no explicit statement that Microsoft PROMISED updates of any particular fashion.” --So, in your mind, in order for MS to be accountable for this mess, they should have issued a “promissory note” to all of us stating that they were deploying an OS that was going to be fully functional from day one and fully supported during its life cycle? And please, don’t come to me with your crap about “did your phone didn’t function from day one? Now, I am going to assume that you have been reading about WP7 since it was announced last year, do you remember when the Windows Phone website opened mainly for registered users to access “back-stage” info about the progress of the phone? Did you say yes? Then, do you remember when they explicitly stated that this was going to be a total new approach to the way the OS was going to be developed? Do you remember when they “promised” to have full control over the update cycle of the platform? Do you even remember when they originally advertised that all updates were going to be pushed OTA? I can go on for hours trying to “refresh” your memory, if that what you want.—
You wrote: “And do you have any real evidence that they aren't "working hard" on these issues?” --I am sure they are probably working hard but with the money and talent MS has, I expect (and yes, you can quote me, I EXPECT) better and faster results!
You wrote: “Here's what any reasonable person can fault Microsoft for regarding WP7: The operating system was not as full-featured at the competition (but we bought the devices anyway); when problems have been discovered (many of which were caused by someone OTHER than Microsoft) they have done a very poor job of keeping customers completely informed of what's going on AS it goes on. That's pretty much it. Look at who is having problems right now. Samsung. The two devices from Samsung. So guess where the largest part of the blame should be going?” --Yes! I have also wrote about MS being at fault first for deploying a “half developed” functional OS that CANNOT compete with iOS and Android have to offer. And yes again, MS is at fault for allowing these and any OEMs to modify a pre-tested hardware –as you have speculated before.--
The fact that we don’t agree on who’s the main responsible for this mess doesn’t necessary mean that you are right or wrong. Let me remind you that all of us here are just SPECULATING about what’s going on, ONLY the people in Redmond know what’s wrong. But since I paid for my phone and I believe that MS made me believe that this time I was going to have a completely different experience with my smartphone, then I feel that I have the right to COMPLAIN when I am not getting what it was PROMISED!
BTW, and without further looking for trouble, watch who you call snotty brats… just a thought too! Salud!
I too am an Omnia owner and somewhat frustrated, but I cant blame Microsoft for this, this is not my first Samsung phone and not the first time updates have been delayed due to Samsung using different hardware between devices and doing funny things with their boot loaders.
Microsoft have to be careful about what they say about other companies are they leave themselves open to legal proceedings and they may not be able to reveal the exact reason for the delay. If this delay means I get Mango in a timely fashion then so be it.
@ ScubaDog2011 – I see your point and although I can agree with some of what you say (well-put thoughts), I have to say that what is “killing” most of us is; besides anger, uncertainty, mistrust and most importantly, the feeling of being disrespected and mistreated as paying customers. Of course the OEMs and the carriers are to be blamed too for this mess, but MS has by far, most of the responsibility. As I said it before, when you own the dance floor, you decide who, when and for how long anyone one can dance!
Actually, thats a bit harsh about the 360.. the warrentee did get extended and the xbox was replaced free of charge..
@ ScubaDog2011 ---- Future updates and enhancements are part of any smart device that is made these days. If a company sells a smart phone that its future sofware updates disable the phone; that company is responsible for this malfunctioning phone and the defective product is subject to return. Have you heard of word RECALL? Many cars and other products have been recalled due to malfunctioning parts or buggy software (ex. Toyota Prius.) Omnia 7s are definitely defective and my own phone was bricked and then repaired, but future updates are going to brick the device again, if Microsoft and Samsung do not fix the firmware of the device (temporary fix does not guarantee a trouble free updating process.) All Windows OSs (including WP7) and Microsoft software are supported by Microsoft and future security fixes and updates are guaranteed by the company during the life cycle of the product. On 5/10/2011, Google Inc. has announced that it guarantees availability of future updates for all Android devices during their software updating life cycle (18 months.) Guess what all hardware makers have to make a product that receives updates during next 18 month.
i'm kind of split on the should they tell us exactly what has gone wrong question... half of me thinks:
"yes I want to know every little technical issue even if it means feck all to me",
the other half says:
"this isnt an open platform device, they are entitled to keep secret whatever they like to protect how the internals of the phone work and keep their relationships with manufacturers sweet."
I know which side of the argument will be more popular here.
a third train of thought says why dont they just lie... if you cant reveal the real problems keep everyone happy with a bogus explination!! i'm sure thats happened before somewhere. possibly on the front of my XBOX360?
And what of the mysterious 7392? Nothing to say about that one? It's infuriating that some folks with the AT&T Focus have received it while others haven't. Can't blame this one on the carriers MS, so what's going on?! How long does it take you to roll these updates out to ALL the customers who have the same phone on just one carrier???
I thought we were making progress and Microsoft was learning that they need to, at a minimum, communicate better. Once again, I was wrong.
I can't wait to see what a nightmare the Mango roll-out is going to be....
@BuckeyeTico, you cannot seriously expect us to believe you had no idea what your WP7 device had or lacked before you purchased it, can you? How did you not fully research it? We all got the devices we paid for. While there were plenty of expectations and lofty goals, the fact is we bought what we bought. As for what you call "promises", you are dead wrong. A statement is not the same as a promise. I saw no explicit statement that Microsoft PROMISED updates of any particular fashion. And do you have any real evicence that they aren't "working hard" on these issues? We could play all day with definitions of "hard" and it probably wouldn't meet SOMEone's idea of hard working. But all Microsoft can do is tell you what they intend to do. I don't see any indication of how hard the OEMs or the carriers are working to solve these issues. Weakest link, my friend, weakest link---that's the max capacity for any process. Here's what any reasonable person can fault Microsoft for regarding WP7: The operating system was not as full-featured at the competition (but we bought the devices anyway); when problems have been discovered (many of which were caused by someone OTHER than Microsoft) they have done a very poor job of keeping customers completely informed of what's going on AS it goes on. That's pretty much it. Look at who is having problems right now. Samsung. The two devices from Samsung. So guess where the largest part of the blame should be going?
BTW, in defense if Sirrusty, maybe we don't have time for snotty brats.....just a thought.
throwing in with the rest. i have nodo on my focus but i do not have the security update... don't know when i will get it either... good thing its not important... oh wait... its a security update. windows phone team i hope you realize you have close to zero mind share right now... you have rougly 12 months to get positive mind share of some kind. after that you are either a nothing product (nobody even knows what your product is. like zune). or you are a product with a bad reputation (like the updates on windows phone suck... that kind of bad reputation). or you are a mix of the two: nobody know what your product is... therefore it must suck (also like zune). hope you are not counting on mango to solve all your problems... oh wait you are. how about advertising? you know that xbox thingy y'all have... i only ever see that stupid "hot apps" show on there as any type of advertising for windows phone. when i watch that show it makes me want to sell my windows phone.
im rambling and ranting. windows phone as a platform has a great foundation. the point however is that you are doing SO MANY THINGS wrong microsoft and not nearly enough things right for windows phone to catch on. All the Mangoes, Nokia partnerships, and Skype acquisitions in the world can't save you if you don't nail the basics: reliability (updates) and advertising. Also if you come out with another crap batch of harware (not a single attractive device except the Dell VP. which is buggy as hell and i would purchase except i dont want the added weight/thickness of the keyboard) then you might as well throw in the towel.
People, come ON, now! I've said before that Microsoft bears the heaviest responsibility for being much more transparent on the issues with the updates, but it's ridiculous to put all the blame for the actual PROBLEMS on them. If you read up on how this all originally was designed to work, the OEMs submitted their devices to Microsoft, ostensibly with the expectation of conforming to the standards Microsoft set. Once approved, they could go into mass production. Now, these issues showing up can only be faulted in two areas, really. Either Microsoft didn't thoroughly test the devices when submitted or--much more likely--the OEMs changed the design after approval, thus making future updates potentially incompatible. I think we have the perfect evidence with the Focus that this is what's going on. The very fact that there IS a version 1.4 tells you that Samsung blew it. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if similar is true with the other platforms experiencing problems. The other piece of this is the role that carriers play. Again, I'm of the unwaivering opinon that the carriers should have no play in updates. But they do and they have demonstrably confounded the updates in many cases---prompting such desperate measures as "walshing" the phones.
Having said that, I think the point others have made regarding the availability of information on these current delays is well taken. It's at the very least a half-truth to say you're making progress but there's no new information. That flies completely counter to logic. Progress in ANYthing is, in fact, a change. If there is change then there is something new to report. You simply cannot escape that as fact. If you are not ALLOWED to say what that change is, what the progress is, what that news is, then be honest about it and tell the customer the truth. But it is very nearly a lie to say you have made some sort of progress but have nothing new to report. I also think that if the customers are asking for a description of what technical issue is causing the delay, then you darn well should give it to them. On the transparency front it does seem like customers are repeating the same plea, albeit in somewhat different ways, and yet Microsoft still doesn't get it. When I am working on a computer for someone I go into a fair amount of detail as to what I discover as I discover it until, ultimately, I solve the problem(s) and hand their machine back to them.
I don't doubt that what Microsoft is learning with all this will help make the Mango update cleaner. Hopefully, they'll be able to spank the OEMs if they even THINK about changing the designs after Microsoft has tested them. I don't know what they can do about the carriers, unfortunately.
~40mins ago on twitter:
@WinPhoneSupport Guys why has the copy and paste update been delayed for the omnia 7, why is that every omnia 7 update is getting delayed??
@GSigh model. The work of fixing and testing the package is nearly done, and the team hopes to resume update deliveries soon. ^EB
@VictorWPB, I completely sympathize with your complaint, but I have to ask: Why should you get a refund? Is your device not functioning? Regardless of any promises made--or that you felt were made--all the devices functioned as they were designed to function out of the box. Anything else is actually improvement. Granted, the convention is that we who purchase a smartphone do so with the expectation of some degree of upgradability without having to purchase a whole new device. BUT, I don't see anywhere in my user paperwork or agreement with the carrier that there's a guarantee of anything other that the functionality that existed on the device at the time of purchase. So, I don't see that you have a leg to stand on, technically speaking. You could certainly see if another carrier would "buy you out" of your contract and you could get an Android phone instead. But, short of something like that, I'll be surprised if your carrier or OEM will refund your money. The reality of it is that you got what you paid for...as did we all.
"I know some of you are eager for news on the Omnia 7 and Focus issues "
its not just few of us, its everyone who has a Samsung phone without an update the problem is lack of information,
@Eric Hautala WHERE IS OUR UPDATE? If Microsoft and Samsung are not able to fix our Omnia 7 phones, they have to refund our hard-earned money.
@BuckeyeTico thats a shame.. we could have been good together.. i'm hurt now. i'll keep reading your intelligent posts pretending we are friends.
"The Mango update is currently in the testing stages for Developers and is expected to hit Windows Phone 7 devices in the Autumn time with the HTC HD7 and Samsung Omnia 7 expected to be the first handsets to get the update."
Looks like rumours are spreading... maybe omnia is not so dead after all!
@ Fixie – You are right, people are angry because; either, some paid $500+ for an unlocked phone OR some others paid $200 –such as myself- plus agreed to a 2-year contract for a smartphone THAT lacks of the essential components a “smartphone” should be made of. On top of that, essential –here I go again with this word- updates are not being delivered in a timely fashion. All we get are excuses and promises (yes sir, promises)… that “we are working hard to fix this issue”, that “we won’t rest until everyone has the update”, that “these issues will be fixed SOON”, etc. In the meanwhile, MS played some tricks on our subconscious minds by hosting and widely broadcasting MX1, which gave us a glance of what the distant Mango will bring to the table … smart move, I’d say. But I ask, did I say anything worse than what other people have said about Eric? I don’t think so… Is it right for me to bad-mouth someone just for a phone? Yes, as long as this person is in charge of my customer satisfaction and is not delivering.
@ sirrusty – You know what? I don’t have time for “fan-boys”…
Now WP7 phones are taken off the shelf completely by Optus in Australia, i got my Omnia 7 only a month ago, got preNODO quite easily, but nothing after that, I'm worried as it is on a 2 year contract.
WP7 is a great OS and i want it to do well and beat iOSs and androids. i request MS to please clear the air about Omnia7 so that we can be sure of what will happen, whether to keep this phone or chuck it and buy an android.
I seem to be doing a better job of defending Microsoft than they do themselves.. where do I send the job application?
I imagine that behind the scenes there is a mix of fixing/blaming/embarrassment at the situation... every statement they make gets immediatly coppied and pasted (ironically) onto hundreds of tech sites for people to use to slate Microsoft... this will all blow over 'soon' and all this will just seem crazy.
@sirrusty: well i understand that something goes wrong. But how can be "life changing" tell the users whats wrong? i just dont get why MS desnt try to calm down customers with more details about problem.
Im usually not the guy that complains but the fact is that the customer wants to be informed. Ms could easly avoid all this by just trying to explain the problem instead of saying nothing to report. Its not like we stole our phones... We paid for them as everybody else!
Yes, but its not the end of the world... its just a phone... nobody died because they can't cut and paste.. don't get me wrong... as a tech nerd i'm here for news of when I may get an update but it really aint life changing and especially not a reason for personal insults and angry teenager comments. it wasnt long ago that when you purchased a phone that was it.. no updates.. stuck with what you purchased.. its gouing to take a while for companies to get used to being demanded to add functionality to already sold devices.. does your TV get updates? or your fridge?
or explanation whats wrong. imagine u are not getting your paycheck, u dont want to know why?
@ sirrusty: some people are just angry, like me, i spend lots of money for phone and want service which iv been promised by microsoft.
After comments like that one by BuckeyeTico why the hell would MS want to support 'customers' like that? the more daft stuff like that that gets posted the less of a chance of them engaging with grown up customers and developers. I'm pretty immune from stupid comments so feel free to vent your anger at me for posting this.
How is this treatment of Samsung Omnia 7 users going to make you successful in the Mobile space??
This lack of openess and information regarding the problems has been extreamly poor. Perhaps you feel the WP7 market is still very small at the moment and upsetting a few early adoptors will not matter in the great scheme of things!!!
But every person you lose has a much greater impact than just one person. We all have friends, colleagues and family. More than that people tell their experinces positive and negative on Twitter, Facebook and Forums that ordinary people read not just Geeks. Already news sites like the BBC are commenting on the complaints...This is being handled very badly
I just dont understand this attitude of saying next to nothing and frustrating your best and most loyal supporters. I have had Microsoft OS phones for nearly 10 years and to be honest I am starting think I will just move on to something else when my contract is up in January.
We accepted lack of features because you promised a great solid experience on the phone that would be updated without issues on a regular basis.
However I have a phone that crashes often, Apps that obviously have performance issues and to top it all it appears the OMNIA 7 cant be easily updated to fix problems.
This really is not good enough !!! Can someone from your company have the manners to explain to customers what the issues are and will every update on the Omnia 7 be this problematic.Samsung and the Carriers dont care and blame Microsoft.for the screw up!!!
We were told 12 days ago "OMNIA 7 FIX is ready to ROLL" does this mean in 12 days or 12 weeks ??
If this continues I honestly think I will move to IPHONE for a less stressful experience!!
Please get your act together !!
@ Freypal – Do you know why this so-called GM of Customer Experience Engineering NEVER addresses any of our questions or concerns? Because he is incompetent and doesn’t know what he is doing or what to say!! All he has been saying for the past 3 months is “soon”. I bet the first thing he does when he gets home is to change his “shitty panties”. I’d be the first one to sign a petition to fire him!!
I'm angry at Microsoft about Omnia 7. I bought it because i wanted the best Windows Phone experience without compromises.
It makes me angry that others who bought cheaper windows phones have NoDo and i'm still waiting for pre-NoDo!
Just got the Omnia phone last Sunday, should have read this blog sooner. Now I really regret getting the Omnia phone, should have gone with iphone 4. My wife is going laugh at me for not listening to her.
I have been a long time Microsoft shareholder. I really hope Microsoft can turn this around soon and do some customer recovery like free downloads of paid apps from Xbox Live. Just like Apple offering free phone cases due to the connection problem. But I think Microsoft can do better than that to win the hearts of the WP7 users.
Well, for a Customer Experience engineer, you do know how to put people off.
@yaoyang. this question has been anwered many times in this thread.
When are the updates going to be rolled out for M1 customers in Singapore? Mine is an Omnia 7 phone, which is still carrying the original firmware.
May I know when are you rolling out the updates for M1 customers in Singapore? My phone has not receive any form of updates and is still on the original firmware.
I've been asking on this blog for weeks for a description of the problem as have many others. Eric is yet to reply to a single comment here full stop.
This Omnia problem is a complete farce, as is the Focus 1.4. I've lost patientce with this now after being one of your strongest defenders. Way to go, all it would have taken is some honesty on your part, consumers aren't stupid. Lies will be seen for what they are.
Just be honest and explain the problem, people can't be more angry for finally hearing the truth than they are already.
@VeryDisappointed. lets say it is, do you think we'll have legal grounds to get a refund from Samsung/carrier? i really hope its not terminal, i love the phone itself, but yeah.
This is starting to feel like that continually delayed flight announcement in which they refuse to tell you the truth that the plane is irrepairabley damaged and you will never get off the ground. I am worried that Omnia 7 is terminal, please tell me that it is not!!!
i cannot believe that MICROSOFT is actually trying to "COMPETE" in the mobile market. guys seriously when you're planning to compete against Apple and Google make sure you bring out something new to the market (no one cares about Live Tiles and Facebook integration but 15 year olds) not something missing basic functionality (eg. copy&paste) and then rollout an update to add that, and on top we still havnt got the update on Omnia 7. i would probably give WP7 till, lets say end of this year and it will be forgotten about when iPhone5 is out. ohhh man im having flashbacks from Vista days, i think im gonna be sick.