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Hi everyone. Today we began delivering the March update to Telstra customers in Australia. (This update also includes 7392, the fraudulent certificate update I mentioned last week.) That’s the only new change to the Where’s my phone update? table.
I know some of you are eager for news on the Omnia 7 and Focus issues I discussed last week. We’re making progress, but I don’t have anything new to report just yet. As soon as I do, I’ll let you know.
Eric Hautala, GM, Customer Experience Engineering
Finally~!! Wait for ages. Cheers
Any idea when the HTC Specific update is going to be released here?
Apparently this is supposed to update the Firmware and Radio of the device?
gave up waiting and bought Android phone. Will try again when Mango is out and available for Telstra - I could be gone some time...
Eric, as you can see the wolves are no longer circling, so good job! Don't rest to easy though, when everyone is in a stable "state" (even those that "walshed" their phones), then you should declare success and give us some numbers on how many people have actually updated their devices vs. how many are still running the rtm install. I have a lot more confidence now that Microsoft, and the phone Manufacturers realize what it takes to get out an update successfully. I'm looking forward to a successful Mango update, with every passing week my confidence in this ecosystem is growing. Here's to hoping you promise and deliver!
Still don't have the 7392 Update for Sprint! Give me a direct update please!
@Eric you said that "The new package is nearly ready," so why there is a delay can we have some details on what the problem is and how long you guys need to fix this ? weeks, months
June is close and we will bein in 2nd half of 2011 - Is that still an Early 2011 update ?
@ Eric Hautala Please let us know, If Omnia 7 has hardware problems and Microsoft is not able to update the phone. I'm ready to send my Omnia 7 to a recycle center. I bought the phone for $658.00 and now the price has dropped to $339.00, only because MS and Samsung have failed to support the phone properly. It is so shameful that Microsoft and Samsung are not able to provide an acceptable updating service to the only Windows Phone 7 that looks good. Samsung Galaxy S (ANDROID PHONE) was released one year ago but it is still over $500.00 and it is still a very popular device because of regular updates and strong support from Samsung. ARE WE SECOND CLASS MOBILE PHONE USERS??? THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE AT ALL.
@Eric Hautala: After have updated my Omnia 7 to NoDo (not using Chris Walsh), but now I can't restore it back. It stops at 2 step (rebooting). My Omnia 7 can't enter the "connect to pc" mode. If I try it manually by pressing camera button just after the phone turns on and vibrates the phone stays in "Samsung Omnia 7" splash screen forever. I have found that customers of A1 Telekom Austria also have this problem: www.a1.net/.../omnianodoupdateerfolgreichabernachfolgendessamsungupdatenicht;jsessionid=27BDCAAFD44D3F6C8F2ABF4DDE9C0720
Is this the issue you try to fix for Omnia 7, or is this something new?
Unblievable. I just bought an omnia 7... Just to discover is already a dead device. this is a nightmare!
I'm not worried about waiting a bit for an update... Thats life, things go wrong... what I am scared about is the Omnia 7 getting left out of future updates like mango because it is a pain in the arse to update.
I'm fine about waiting but can we omnia 7 users have a guarantee that its not going to be left behind in the future or recalled as defective due to Samsung missunderstanding something in the design process that was missed? Ill be happy knowing I'm not going to be stuck in a contract with a noMango phone for 2 years!
I've been enjoying Nodo on my Surround for a week now, very happy to see other users will soon begin to enjoy the update too. On a side note, any updates on the "Must Have Games" May deal...in particular, Angry Birds? Although, seems like the new and hot game out there is Words with Friends...so maybe it's time to get on the ball with the studio behind that game?
The reason I worry is that previously I was just stuck 18 months with a toshiba TG01 wm6.5 device that worked great except as a phone... the call quality was shocking. Orange and Toshiba were useless in that situation (replaced it 5 times with phones with exactly the same problem and the 4th one they sent me was the first one I sent back!!) and I don't want a repeat.
Thank God ! finally we take it ! just 2 months delay ! so funny !
I hope mango update would be released for telstra much soon than nodo !
anyway ! tnx MS for ur better supporting .
As it has been about a month since the updates for the Omnia 7 stopped, there seems to be some serious problem with updating this handset. Is this similar to the problems with the Rev 1.4 Focus.
Speaking of the Focus - is there any chance we Omnia 7 Users will get the Anti-Shake on by default and disable-buttons when swiping on them from the display changes the Focus got?
Well, considering I couldn't buy the Samsung Omnia outright and then use it on the Telstra NextG network I simply bought the Samsung Focus through Mobicity who import the mobiles to Australia. I got it for $599 and had the phone 3 days after ordering it. It has AT&T branding on the phone but who cares. I got the March WP7 update the same day I bought the phone about 3 weeks ago and didn't have to wait for Telstra. Optus and others sell the Omnia 7 outright for $689-850+ crazy!!!
The point is that MS is not clear with us about what's going on with Omnias, if it's fixable once and for all or if we're just not gonna see other updates... and Mango is a very important one!
Still nothing... awesome, I'll probably get the updates by 2012. Thank you Telefonica for working so hard on doing nothing and thank you windows phone team for allowing them to do so.
@ dkb1898 – Man, don’t get me wrong but how easy you get pleased. Don’t tell me that you are one of those that for 5 bucks will wash, dry and detail my car, and even clean and organize my garage. If you are going to be happy for Mango to be delivered by the end of fall or beginning of winter –or may be later; guess what, we won’t! Just keep staring at the moon my friend…
when are you guys going to fix the contacts so i can search my address book by company name/social organisation? if there has been a fix please let me know! also when is the phone/browser gona be able to support flash? thanks
Eric, What about color banding issues with the Surround after applying the nodo/firmware update combination? It can be fixed with a reg hack on unlocked phones but the rest of us are anything with a high gradiance looks terrible. Ironically the white AT&T boot screen is a perfect example of the problem.
There you go again saying 'as soon as'.. Can't you get a rough date from the dev team.. say days, weeks, months or perhaps years. This is getting very, very annoying.
It seems that some Omnias (mine for example) cannot get to download mode anymore because of a faulty bootloader. I cant imagine how they can fix the bootloader without download mode. I see a recall coming.
Hearing very soon, almost finished, nothing to report week after week is getting VERYannoying!!!
At least samsung will be able to track the phones getting returned to carriers in the "wheres my phone" service on windows live.
"We're making progress" isn't compatible with "I don't have anything new to report just yet". If progress had been made, you'd have something to report. So either (i) you've made no progress in a week, hence you've got nothing to report or (ii) you've made progress but for some reason won't report just yet.
Please let us know what's going on. If you have, as you claim, made progress then please tell us what that progress was and how far we're off its release. We were promised this update "very, very soon" seven months ago. I think at this point we deserve a bit of honesty, nothing you could say that could make this update fiasco worse anyway.
To save me fruitlessly pressing the "Check for Update" button every day, sould you PLEASE tell me if the T-Mobile UK Omnia 7 (Deutsche Telekom) is coming as per the release schedule or delayed? As you can imagine i'm thrilled to be waiting for a February update in the middle MAY.
this is kind of a ranodm thought... but it speaks to broken promises... what ever happened to turn based game multiplayer?
How about testing Chis Walsh's tool to fix walshed phones?
@BuckeyeTico - Your comment is not worth addressing really, as you obviously haven't been reading my comments all along like others. I'm hoping they promise and deliver in Fall. Have my expectations been lowered since launch, yes, because Microsoft isn't over-promising and under-delivering like they were then. Lowered expectations at this point is a good thing. Nothing worse than having expectations and them not being even close to met, I think the same folks had to learn that AGAIN like they did with Vista (since it was many of the same people that worked on Vista). Hopefully they won't do that a 3rd time!
Not to be rude, but really makes me angry that people with a Surround are enjoying NoDo (2 weeks after everyone else got it) yet just because I have a Focus with Rev 1.4 I can't enjoy it.
On 4th of May you posted: "The new package is nearly ready, and we’re eager to resume updates to this model." and also "Omnia 7 updates are just about ready to roll again. More on that soon.", but today you said "We’re making progress, but I don’t have anything new to report just yet.". I don't want to be rude or picky, but it would be more logical to me if you would have posted todays quote back then and those two quotes from 4th of May, today.
Please at least tell us if the problem is software or hardware related. Thank You.
I have to say, this is getting ridiculous for us Samsung rev 1.4 owners. We need more info. To make things worse, I am a developer and have several highly rated apps, many apps in the top 25 in multiple categories. I do not have the updates yet, preventing me from testing app upgrades as well as new apps and games I am working on. And it makes me have a HUGE fear that I will have the same problem come next major update; and with all the new APIs I have already begun working on apps to take advantage of them. But if I am not going to be able to test them in a timely manner (or at all) I should just save my self time and effort now and go to developing for Android! And the longer it takes to get real information on this issues (other then we are working on it) the closer I am as a developer to leave WP7 for Android!!!
it looks more and more like a hardware issue or something that unique with samsung, it appears like Microsoft if trying to hide Samsung's problems and not blaming manufacturer as they want to keep manufacturers and Carriers Happy
waiting a week to hear "we are working on it " we will be there soon is not good enough
"I don’t have anything new to report just yet." you should start with explaining whats the problem.
The update process shows so many problems on your mobile system and its not the os itself. Its the whole huge bloated lifecycle in any direction (user communication, development/improvement, user expirence, broken promises so MANY times in this short timeline are just unique)
anyone belives something will be better in future? Anyone thinks microsoft can hit any timelines in anything with wp7? I thought wp7 will be a competitive system to ios or just android....but since the first disappointments ("early 2011 copy and paste update) its just getting worse....and worse, there is nothing positive to report
- delayed first update
- delayed second update
- the last one with the ssl update
and still users which dont get any update.
If i dont bought a wp7 device, i would laugh about it
Yesterday I was at a Best Buy store to check Samsung Nexus S. I have to say, it is a decent Android mobile device and AVAILIABILITY OF THE FUTURE UPDATES ARE GUARANTEED BY GOOGLE. Now I’m using an Omnia 7 unlocked, I bought this phone factory unlocked to make sure that the device receives all the future updates without delay. I really like Samsung Super AMOLED screens, and it appears that Samsung doesn’t like Windows Phone OS and it doesn’t care about its WP7 devices (Omnia 7 and Focus.) I think we should move to a platform that is fully
supported by the major hardware makers such as HTC, LG and Samsung.
Google has just announced its next version of Android OS, and it is called Ice Cream Sandwich, I guess Ice Cream is tastier than Mango. I’m sorry Microsoft, but first impression is so important and we are not impressed by your first WP7 updating and device supporting procedure.
Instead of buying Skype for $8.5 billion, hire more engineers to test your mobile OS on different devices, so ERCI HAUTALA won’t be in this awkward situation dealing with many angry and frustrated users.
This is honestly the worst patching system I have ever had the privilege of using...
First update would (PreNoDo attempt 1) wouldn't install at all
Second update (PreNoDo attempt 2) forced me to wipe my phone of all content to install
Third update (NoDo) Destroyed update mode and forced me to hand it to service for repair
Now updates have been down for a month... and not even a word of what is going on.
Not to mention that it takes months for you to deliver the patch to all customers even if things had worked as intended... And this is when you only have like 2 million units sold... Imagine if you has 400 million units sold every year like Nokia... It would take you like 400 months to deliver your update... Honestly... this is really really bad... you should have put a few bucks of those 8 billion skype dollars in hiring a few more developers, support personal and upgrade servers.... The phone is awesome... but that's where it ends really... The dream of where it should be so easy to upgrade the phones because Microsoft would handle it all is more of a nightmare.
Should we be expecting the "Must Have Games" soon? We were told they would start in May and we are almost halfway through the month and haven't seen any of the blockbuster titles that were promised.
@Jason The MUST HAVE GAMES are nearly ready, and we’re eager to make them available in 2012!
WELL DONE MICROSOFT
Guys, keep up the good work... My Samsung Focus in Canada (on Rogers) received every update as released by you and the Carrier. I do remember the first update taking a long time, but no issues after that. I LOVE MY WINDOWS PHONE... I am enjoying the podcast, keep the sound(s) on! Any way to spoon feed us Mango over the summer?
I just have one question for Microsoft and anyone who can help me here.HOW CAN I UNINSTALL BING MAPS?
I have been misdirected about 5 times by my bing map directions which has driven me crazy about this shitty app,more to that it labels Université de Montreal as McGill University.wtf
i cannot believe that MICROSOFT is actually trying to "COMPETE" in the mobile market. guys seriously when you're planning to compete against Apple and Google make sure you bring out something new to the market (no one cares about Live Tiles and Facebook integration but 15 year olds) not something missing basic functionality (eg. copy&paste) and then rollout an update to add that, and on top we still havnt got the update on Omnia 7. i would probably give WP7 till, lets say end of this year and it will be forgotten about when iPhone5 is out. ohhh man im having flashbacks from Vista days, i think im gonna be sick.
This is starting to feel like that continually delayed flight announcement in which they refuse to tell you the truth that the plane is irrepairabley damaged and you will never get off the ground. I am worried that Omnia 7 is terminal, please tell me that it is not!!!
@VeryDisappointed. lets say it is, do you think we'll have legal grounds to get a refund from Samsung/carrier? i really hope its not terminal, i love the phone itself, but yeah.
I've been asking on this blog for weeks for a description of the problem as have many others. Eric is yet to reply to a single comment here full stop.
This Omnia problem is a complete farce, as is the Focus 1.4. I've lost patientce with this now after being one of your strongest defenders. Way to go, all it would have taken is some honesty on your part, consumers aren't stupid. Lies will be seen for what they are.
Just be honest and explain the problem, people can't be more angry for finally hearing the truth than they are already.
May I know when are you rolling out the updates for M1 customers in Singapore? My phone has not receive any form of updates and is still on the original firmware.
When are the updates going to be rolled out for M1 customers in Singapore? Mine is an Omnia 7 phone, which is still carrying the original firmware.
@yaoyang. this question has been anwered many times in this thread.
Well, for a Customer Experience engineer, you do know how to put people off.
Just got the Omnia phone last Sunday, should have read this blog sooner. Now I really regret getting the Omnia phone, should have gone with iphone 4. My wife is going laugh at me for not listening to her.
I have been a long time Microsoft shareholder. I really hope Microsoft can turn this around soon and do some customer recovery like free downloads of paid apps from Xbox Live. Just like Apple offering free phone cases due to the connection problem. But I think Microsoft can do better than that to win the hearts of the WP7 users.
I'm angry at Microsoft about Omnia 7. I bought it because i wanted the best Windows Phone experience without compromises.
It makes me angry that others who bought cheaper windows phones have NoDo and i'm still waiting for pre-NoDo!
@ Freypal – Do you know why this so-called GM of Customer Experience Engineering NEVER addresses any of our questions or concerns? Because he is incompetent and doesn’t know what he is doing or what to say!! All he has been saying for the past 3 months is “soon”. I bet the first thing he does when he gets home is to change his “shitty panties”. I’d be the first one to sign a petition to fire him!!
How is this treatment of Samsung Omnia 7 users going to make you successful in the Mobile space??
This lack of openess and information regarding the problems has been extreamly poor. Perhaps you feel the WP7 market is still very small at the moment and upsetting a few early adoptors will not matter in the great scheme of things!!!
But every person you lose has a much greater impact than just one person. We all have friends, colleagues and family. More than that people tell their experinces positive and negative on Twitter, Facebook and Forums that ordinary people read not just Geeks. Already news sites like the BBC are commenting on the complaints...This is being handled very badly
I just dont understand this attitude of saying next to nothing and frustrating your best and most loyal supporters. I have had Microsoft OS phones for nearly 10 years and to be honest I am starting think I will just move on to something else when my contract is up in January.
We accepted lack of features because you promised a great solid experience on the phone that would be updated without issues on a regular basis.
However I have a phone that crashes often, Apps that obviously have performance issues and to top it all it appears the OMNIA 7 cant be easily updated to fix problems.
This really is not good enough !!! Can someone from your company have the manners to explain to customers what the issues are and will every update on the Omnia 7 be this problematic.Samsung and the Carriers dont care and blame Microsoft.for the screw up!!!
We were told 12 days ago "OMNIA 7 FIX is ready to ROLL" does this mean in 12 days or 12 weeks ??
If this continues I honestly think I will move to IPHONE for a less stressful experience!!
Please get your act together !!
After comments like that one by BuckeyeTico why the hell would MS want to support 'customers' like that? the more daft stuff like that that gets posted the less of a chance of them engaging with grown up customers and developers. I'm pretty immune from stupid comments so feel free to vent your anger at me for posting this.
@ sirrusty: some people are just angry, like me, i spend lots of money for phone and want service which iv been promised by microsoft.
or explanation whats wrong. imagine u are not getting your paycheck, u dont want to know why?
Yes, but its not the end of the world... its just a phone... nobody died because they can't cut and paste.. don't get me wrong... as a tech nerd i'm here for news of when I may get an update but it really aint life changing and especially not a reason for personal insults and angry teenager comments. it wasnt long ago that when you purchased a phone that was it.. no updates.. stuck with what you purchased.. its gouing to take a while for companies to get used to being demanded to add functionality to already sold devices.. does your TV get updates? or your fridge?
Im usually not the guy that complains but the fact is that the customer wants to be informed. Ms could easly avoid all this by just trying to explain the problem instead of saying nothing to report. Its not like we stole our phones... We paid for them as everybody else!
@sirrusty: well i understand that something goes wrong. But how can be "life changing" tell the users whats wrong? i just dont get why MS desnt try to calm down customers with more details about problem.
I imagine that behind the scenes there is a mix of fixing/blaming/embarrassment at the situation... every statement they make gets immediatly coppied and pasted (ironically) onto hundreds of tech sites for people to use to slate Microsoft... this will all blow over 'soon' and all this will just seem crazy.
I seem to be doing a better job of defending Microsoft than they do themselves.. where do I send the job application?
Now WP7 phones are taken off the shelf completely by Optus in Australia, i got my Omnia 7 only a month ago, got preNODO quite easily, but nothing after that, I'm worried as it is on a 2 year contract.
WP7 is a great OS and i want it to do well and beat iOSs and androids. i request MS to please clear the air about Omnia7 so that we can be sure of what will happen, whether to keep this phone or chuck it and buy an android.
@ Fixie – You are right, people are angry because; either, some paid $500+ for an unlocked phone OR some others paid $200 –such as myself- plus agreed to a 2-year contract for a smartphone THAT lacks of the essential components a “smartphone” should be made of. On top of that, essential –here I go again with this word- updates are not being delivered in a timely fashion. All we get are excuses and promises (yes sir, promises)… that “we are working hard to fix this issue”, that “we won’t rest until everyone has the update”, that “these issues will be fixed SOON”, etc. In the meanwhile, MS played some tricks on our subconscious minds by hosting and widely broadcasting MX1, which gave us a glance of what the distant Mango will bring to the table … smart move, I’d say. But I ask, did I say anything worse than what other people have said about Eric? I don’t think so… Is it right for me to bad-mouth someone just for a phone? Yes, as long as this person is in charge of my customer satisfaction and is not delivering.
@ sirrusty – You know what? I don’t have time for “fan-boys”…
"The Mango update is currently in the testing stages for Developers and is expected to hit Windows Phone 7 devices in the Autumn time with the HTC HD7 and Samsung Omnia 7 expected to be the first handsets to get the update."
Looks like rumours are spreading... maybe omnia is not so dead after all!
@BuckeyeTico thats a shame.. we could have been good together.. i'm hurt now. i'll keep reading your intelligent posts pretending we are friends.
@Eric Hautala WHERE IS OUR UPDATE? If Microsoft and Samsung are not able to fix our Omnia 7 phones, they have to refund our hard-earned money.
"I know some of you are eager for news on the Omnia 7 and Focus issues "
its not just few of us, its everyone who has a Samsung phone without an update the problem is lack of information,
@VictorWPB, I completely sympathize with your complaint, but I have to ask: Why should you get a refund? Is your device not functioning? Regardless of any promises made--or that you felt were made--all the devices functioned as they were designed to function out of the box. Anything else is actually improvement. Granted, the convention is that we who purchase a smartphone do so with the expectation of some degree of upgradability without having to purchase a whole new device. BUT, I don't see anywhere in my user paperwork or agreement with the carrier that there's a guarantee of anything other that the functionality that existed on the device at the time of purchase. So, I don't see that you have a leg to stand on, technically speaking. You could certainly see if another carrier would "buy you out" of your contract and you could get an Android phone instead. But, short of something like that, I'll be surprised if your carrier or OEM will refund your money. The reality of it is that you got what you paid for...as did we all.
~40mins ago on twitter:
@WinPhoneSupport Guys why has the copy and paste update been delayed for the omnia 7, why is that every omnia 7 update is getting delayed??
@GSigh model. The work of fixing and testing the package is nearly done, and the team hopes to resume update deliveries soon. ^EB
People, come ON, now! I've said before that Microsoft bears the heaviest responsibility for being much more transparent on the issues with the updates, but it's ridiculous to put all the blame for the actual PROBLEMS on them. If you read up on how this all originally was designed to work, the OEMs submitted their devices to Microsoft, ostensibly with the expectation of conforming to the standards Microsoft set. Once approved, they could go into mass production. Now, these issues showing up can only be faulted in two areas, really. Either Microsoft didn't thoroughly test the devices when submitted or--much more likely--the OEMs changed the design after approval, thus making future updates potentially incompatible. I think we have the perfect evidence with the Focus that this is what's going on. The very fact that there IS a version 1.4 tells you that Samsung blew it. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if similar is true with the other platforms experiencing problems. The other piece of this is the role that carriers play. Again, I'm of the unwaivering opinon that the carriers should have no play in updates. But they do and they have demonstrably confounded the updates in many cases---prompting such desperate measures as "walshing" the phones.
Having said that, I think the point others have made regarding the availability of information on these current delays is well taken. It's at the very least a half-truth to say you're making progress but there's no new information. That flies completely counter to logic. Progress in ANYthing is, in fact, a change. If there is change then there is something new to report. You simply cannot escape that as fact. If you are not ALLOWED to say what that change is, what the progress is, what that news is, then be honest about it and tell the customer the truth. But it is very nearly a lie to say you have made some sort of progress but have nothing new to report. I also think that if the customers are asking for a description of what technical issue is causing the delay, then you darn well should give it to them. On the transparency front it does seem like customers are repeating the same plea, albeit in somewhat different ways, and yet Microsoft still doesn't get it. When I am working on a computer for someone I go into a fair amount of detail as to what I discover as I discover it until, ultimately, I solve the problem(s) and hand their machine back to them.
I don't doubt that what Microsoft is learning with all this will help make the Mango update cleaner. Hopefully, they'll be able to spank the OEMs if they even THINK about changing the designs after Microsoft has tested them. I don't know what they can do about the carriers, unfortunately.
throwing in with the rest. i have nodo on my focus but i do not have the security update... don't know when i will get it either... good thing its not important... oh wait... its a security update. windows phone team i hope you realize you have close to zero mind share right now... you have rougly 12 months to get positive mind share of some kind. after that you are either a nothing product (nobody even knows what your product is. like zune). or you are a product with a bad reputation (like the updates on windows phone suck... that kind of bad reputation). or you are a mix of the two: nobody know what your product is... therefore it must suck (also like zune). hope you are not counting on mango to solve all your problems... oh wait you are. how about advertising? you know that xbox thingy y'all have... i only ever see that stupid "hot apps" show on there as any type of advertising for windows phone. when i watch that show it makes me want to sell my windows phone.
im rambling and ranting. windows phone as a platform has a great foundation. the point however is that you are doing SO MANY THINGS wrong microsoft and not nearly enough things right for windows phone to catch on. All the Mangoes, Nokia partnerships, and Skype acquisitions in the world can't save you if you don't nail the basics: reliability (updates) and advertising. Also if you come out with another crap batch of harware (not a single attractive device except the Dell VP. which is buggy as hell and i would purchase except i dont want the added weight/thickness of the keyboard) then you might as well throw in the towel.
@BuckeyeTico, you cannot seriously expect us to believe you had no idea what your WP7 device had or lacked before you purchased it, can you? How did you not fully research it? We all got the devices we paid for. While there were plenty of expectations and lofty goals, the fact is we bought what we bought. As for what you call "promises", you are dead wrong. A statement is not the same as a promise. I saw no explicit statement that Microsoft PROMISED updates of any particular fashion. And do you have any real evicence that they aren't "working hard" on these issues? We could play all day with definitions of "hard" and it probably wouldn't meet SOMEone's idea of hard working. But all Microsoft can do is tell you what they intend to do. I don't see any indication of how hard the OEMs or the carriers are working to solve these issues. Weakest link, my friend, weakest link---that's the max capacity for any process. Here's what any reasonable person can fault Microsoft for regarding WP7: The operating system was not as full-featured at the competition (but we bought the devices anyway); when problems have been discovered (many of which were caused by someone OTHER than Microsoft) they have done a very poor job of keeping customers completely informed of what's going on AS it goes on. That's pretty much it. Look at who is having problems right now. Samsung. The two devices from Samsung. So guess where the largest part of the blame should be going?
BTW, in defense if Sirrusty, maybe we don't have time for snotty brats.....just a thought.
And what of the mysterious 7392? Nothing to say about that one? It's infuriating that some folks with the AT&T Focus have received it while others haven't. Can't blame this one on the carriers MS, so what's going on?! How long does it take you to roll these updates out to ALL the customers who have the same phone on just one carrier???
I thought we were making progress and Microsoft was learning that they need to, at a minimum, communicate better. Once again, I was wrong.
I can't wait to see what a nightmare the Mango roll-out is going to be....
i'm kind of split on the should they tell us exactly what has gone wrong question... half of me thinks:
"yes I want to know every little technical issue even if it means feck all to me",
the other half says:
"this isnt an open platform device, they are entitled to keep secret whatever they like to protect how the internals of the phone work and keep their relationships with manufacturers sweet."
I know which side of the argument will be more popular here.
a third train of thought says why dont they just lie... if you cant reveal the real problems keep everyone happy with a bogus explination!! i'm sure thats happened before somewhere. possibly on the front of my XBOX360?
@ ScubaDog2011 ---- Future updates and enhancements are part of any smart device that is made these days. If a company sells a smart phone that its future sofware updates disable the phone; that company is responsible for this malfunctioning phone and the defective product is subject to return. Have you heard of word RECALL? Many cars and other products have been recalled due to malfunctioning parts or buggy software (ex. Toyota Prius.) Omnia 7s are definitely defective and my own phone was bricked and then repaired, but future updates are going to brick the device again, if Microsoft and Samsung do not fix the firmware of the device (temporary fix does not guarantee a trouble free updating process.) All Windows OSs (including WP7) and Microsoft software are supported by Microsoft and future security fixes and updates are guaranteed by the company during the life cycle of the product. On 5/10/2011, Google Inc. has announced that it guarantees availability of future updates for all Android devices during their software updating life cycle (18 months.) Guess what all hardware makers have to make a product that receives updates during next 18 month.
Actually, thats a bit harsh about the 360.. the warrentee did get extended and the xbox was replaced free of charge..
@ ScubaDog2011 – I see your point and although I can agree with some of what you say (well-put thoughts), I have to say that what is “killing” most of us is; besides anger, uncertainty, mistrust and most importantly, the feeling of being disrespected and mistreated as paying customers. Of course the OEMs and the carriers are to be blamed too for this mess, but MS has by far, most of the responsibility. As I said it before, when you own the dance floor, you decide who, when and for how long anyone one can dance!
I too am an Omnia owner and somewhat frustrated, but I cant blame Microsoft for this, this is not my first Samsung phone and not the first time updates have been delayed due to Samsung using different hardware between devices and doing funny things with their boot loaders.
Microsoft have to be careful about what they say about other companies are they leave themselves open to legal proceedings and they may not be able to reveal the exact reason for the delay. If this delay means I get Mango in a timely fashion then so be it.
@ ScubaDog2011 – Let’s see where I can start off with:
You wrote: “you cannot seriously expect us to believe you had no idea what your WP7 device had or lacked before you purchased it, can you? How did you not fully research it?” --Where and when did I write that I had no idea what I was buying when purchasing my WP7? It happened before and again I will tell you: don’t put words in my mouth that I have not said! I have been reading this blog since June of last year AND yes, I knew what I was getting into.--
You wrote: “As for what you call "promises", you are dead wrong. A statement is not the same as a promise. I saw no explicit statement that Microsoft PROMISED updates of any particular fashion.” --So, in your mind, in order for MS to be accountable for this mess, they should have issued a “promissory note” to all of us stating that they were deploying an OS that was going to be fully functional from day one and fully supported during its life cycle? And please, don’t come to me with your crap about “did your phone didn’t function from day one? Now, I am going to assume that you have been reading about WP7 since it was announced last year, do you remember when the Windows Phone website opened mainly for registered users to access “back-stage” info about the progress of the phone? Did you say yes? Then, do you remember when they explicitly stated that this was going to be a total new approach to the way the OS was going to be developed? Do you remember when they “promised” to have full control over the update cycle of the platform? Do you even remember when they originally advertised that all updates were going to be pushed OTA? I can go on for hours trying to “refresh” your memory, if that what you want.—
You wrote: “And do you have any real evidence that they aren't "working hard" on these issues?” --I am sure they are probably working hard but with the money and talent MS has, I expect (and yes, you can quote me, I EXPECT) better and faster results!
You wrote: “Here's what any reasonable person can fault Microsoft for regarding WP7: The operating system was not as full-featured at the competition (but we bought the devices anyway); when problems have been discovered (many of which were caused by someone OTHER than Microsoft) they have done a very poor job of keeping customers completely informed of what's going on AS it goes on. That's pretty much it. Look at who is having problems right now. Samsung. The two devices from Samsung. So guess where the largest part of the blame should be going?” --Yes! I have also wrote about MS being at fault first for deploying a “half developed” functional OS that CANNOT compete with iOS and Android have to offer. And yes again, MS is at fault for allowing these and any OEMs to modify a pre-tested hardware –as you have speculated before.--
The fact that we don’t agree on who’s the main responsible for this mess doesn’t necessary mean that you are right or wrong. Let me remind you that all of us here are just SPECULATING about what’s going on, ONLY the people in Redmond know what’s wrong. But since I paid for my phone and I believe that MS made me believe that this time I was going to have a completely different experience with my smartphone, then I feel that I have the right to COMPLAIN when I am not getting what it was PROMISED!
BTW, and without further looking for trouble, watch who you call snotty brats… just a thought too! Salud!
A solution would be a "Where's my phone update?" table with the manufacturer models and their actual (update) status on an official Microsoft page. Manufacturers should have to get a move on, it would be in their own interests.
@BuckeyeTico threats to someone who stuck up for me because I stuck up for someone who you insulted... this is getting crazy.. unless you change your attitude rather quickly i trully hope you are the last person to get the update and your phone is bricked.
In fact if I was Eric i'd send you and update notification, get you all exited as the phone is obviously the biggest thing in your life then i'd flash it with smartphone2002 and a Wallpaper that just says GROW up in the random capital letter style that you seem to love so much. these are real people working to give you a better phone and you sir seem like you just don't deserve their efforts... Thanks. "A fan boy"
I was just trying to point out initially that personal insults at microsoft team members was not going to help any of us get the information we are after... the reverse would be true. but now i have actually developed a dislike of impatiance and the rudeness that follows it... i visited this blog eager for information and just ended up realising i dont like impatient people and do not wish to be one myself... a good day to you all and take as long as you want to get it right.
@BuckeyeTico - Give it up man, your a day late and a dollar short. Many of us on here were highly critical of the WP Team MONTHS ago when it mattered. Now things sure seem to be turning around, and Eric deserves some credit, accept it!
Otherwise go buy an damn iPhone or Android, your starting to sound like a Microsoft hater...our passion was because we believed in this platform and though MS was blowing it and overpromising. In the words of John Rambo...Let it go!
Live is very simple but we atimes tend to make it hard,we bought WP7 and we're pretty much disappointed(well I am,especially coming from a Omnia 2),but what can we customers do about it?NOTHING.
Blaming whosoever,expressing our frustration and creating a battlefield can't help but frustrate us more.
The only advice i can give to all frustrated and angry WP7 users as me is to either sell your WP(if u'll find a buyer),or stick with it and just stay away from any news or blogs about WP,atleast till January 2012.hoping for the best
lol u guys make me laugh somethings i love reading this blog
Thanks.. if a bit of commedy comes out of this i'll be happy. ironically.. i just went to connect my bluetooth to my motorbike helmet and it wont connect anymore, tried everything... so i've got to send my omnia 7 back anyway!
What is really interesting is that people say the same things everyday and express the same anger day by day but still nothing is changing.its kinda getting creepy to be seeing the same comments and stories here.lets turn this blog into something productive,like new tricks and workarounds on this platform(more like a forum,with Q and A),or anything productive about this platform
P.S. I learned some guys are working on running Android on the HTC HD7 and they're making some pretty good progress
As with what the rest have shared, I have called up my carrier and Samsung. No one seems to know anything about WP7 updates, nor were there any explanation given. "I don't know, no one told me anything." becomes a standard answer.
Seriously, I like my WP7 phone. As for this issue, both Microsoft and Samsung should share equal responsibility. We bought the phone based on our preference on both the OS and Brand/Model of the phone. Both of them should support the product life all the way.
One thing I find it weird with Samsung is that it is not very customer orientated, even when it pumps in so much money into marketing and branding. I have been using Samsung for the last three phones I owned, and they always tell me that they will only update the firmware while the phone is within the warranty period . This is so calculative and a turn off, when a customer is not even asking for repairs and just update of firmware.
My experience with Canon cameras is right at the extreme positive side, I would rate them 5 stars. Can you believe it when they repair my camera after the warranty has void for more than 1 year because they admitted to me that one of its component is known to be faulty. My loyal to this brand will stay as long as they deliver.
Frankly, I would elevate this case to crisis level based on the early adopters bad experiences and initial product launch. Like in many crisis, a responsible authority should appease or comfort the victims till the crisis is resolved or a permanent solution is met. Think back on some of the customer recovery efforts by some of the good airlines, free food, free lodging, cash compensation, upgrades and etc.
Coming back to the iphone poor reception scenario, Apple did carried out some form of customer recovery but not enough from my standpoint. (since business is about making money, and many neglect long term loyalty) But there are still many Apple addicts out there to ignore the flaws because of better proposition Apple offered to them through multiple fun (time wasting) apps.
Really hope Microsoft and Samsung can come through on this issue soon, and top it up with exceptional service recovery package (marginal costs to them) to its users.
Fair play to Orange in the UK.. I just called them up to tell them I seem to have one of the Samsung Omnia 7s with dodgy bluetooth I mensioned in the post above and they said they will send a brand new one (not a dodgy recon) to be with me between 9am and 1pm tomorrow (delivery on a saturday)... can't really argue with service like that!
Just a heads up... It is true that the staff there do not seem to have been briefed on the WP7 platform at all and you have to bite your toung when they tell you to make sure you remove the SD card, check bluetooth settings that dont exist and end up telling them more about the phone than they have available to them.. but on the whole a pleasant experience.
new Omia7 is not going to fix the problem as its a software issue
let me point you to the right direction
I have been stuck with this for long time and I realized the problem the day I received Omnia7
@ ammughal thanks for the link... That is a long thread!! Ihave also read threads where phones that just say searching all the time like mine have been sucsessfully replaced.. I'm sure you are right and it wont be that easy. Unfortunetly for me not having working blue tooth audio is a deal breaker as i'm self employed and need to be available on long motorbike journeys.. I have faith in getting some type of solution.. I've found if you are nice to support staff you are more likely to get a solution of some kind... i might as well try the replacement anyway.. fingers crossed.
@ammughal here is a thread.. the post at the bottom gives me some hope.. not much, but some.
The call quality was actually good on mine when it worked, a bit of background hiss litening to music but on a motorbike I can live with that.. I just put it down to the volume level you need to hear it over the engine.
@ dkb1898 – I am trying to give it up but you are not letting me! I hate to be arguing about something so trivial but since you insist…
Come on man! Do you really believe that “things” are really turning around? Let’s poll everybody in here (just as a small sample) and then you will realize how frustrated and unsatisfied most people are about how “things” are progressing. And, do you really believe Eric deserves any credit? What for? He doesn’t even bother to address at least the most important of our questions or concerns. I personally don’t have anything against him (I bet he probably is a good son, husband and father) but he happens to be the person in charge of our customer satisfaction. All I hear is excuses; do you know what my boss always tells me? “I don’t want to hear excuses or justifications, just make it happen!”
On the other hand, like most of you, I have owned and worked on many different devices running MS software for a long time. I even picked an Xbox 360 when shopping around for my 7 year-old son’s first game system. After my first cell phone; which was a bulky Ericsson, I have owned smartphones running Windows Mobile. And since I have been a long-time Sprint customer, I had to wait until the end of March to finally buy my WP7 to finally replace my old-friend WM6.5. Now, if that’s a MS hater, then I don’t know how much more love I can give…
The difference is that I am critical and tend to say what other don’t want to say or don’t want to hear. I admit, I can be a little too harsh but guess what? Life isn’t fair, life is tough and if you can’t handle the pressure, then you need to find a different job. Just a thought…
@BuckeyeTico, I didn't accuse you of saying you didn't do you homework. However, when you posted that you paid $200 and signed a 2-yr contract for a phone that lacks essential components, that sounds allt he world like the disdain of someone who feels duped. If you did your homework, then you knew up front that it lacked "essential components". So, why so much angst if you knew what it had and what it didn't?
I do remember that Backstage. I do not recall seeing anything that was an explicit, exclusive statement that could be taken as a promise for the things you mentioned. I think the only argument you really have there is on the subject of the OTA, and even then I'm convinced this ended up being a game of words that led us to believe one thing when the truth would turn out be something different. The OTA part, as it turns out, is nothing more than the notification piece. From a customer perspective, I thought it was stupid to offer OTA updates in the first place. The data costs, the size of most of their updates and the need to backup the phone make the sensibility of updating any way other than via a sync a dangerous prospect. But it looks like you are going to insist that just about anything Microsoft says is to be taken as a promise, and that's something I cannot agree with. We'll have to agree to disagree, as they say.
As for the blame game, it also looks like there's no way I'm going to convince you that "owning the playground" means you actually have total control. Any parent can tell you that even after just being told not to do something that their children can (and often do) go right out and disobey. I don't imagine that the OEMs came back after starting up mass production and got further blessings from Microsoft. What I DO believe is that what we have here was a costly teachable moment for ALL the players, and that hopefully what the OEMs learn is that there is a REASON for taking Microsoft (or any OS-maker) seriously when they say "DON'T DEVIATE FROM THE APPROVED VERSION".
As for expectations, I can't totally disagree with you there. I'm huge on Voice of the Customer, and that is one area where I place 100% of the blame on Microsoft. It's an area they are starting to make some improvements on but are still a long way from really getting it. But, just because expect something doesn't mean Microsoft (or any vendor) will deliver it or even HAS to deliver it. Also, examine what you are basing your expectations on. Are you really basing it on what Microsoft "promised", or on what other smartphones (or even Microsoft's older mobile platforms) had to offer? I suspect more the latter, given your complaint that WP7 came lacking components of other smartphones. Let me caution you on one thing. You mentioned that Microsoft sold this as being a new approach in an OS. I contend that they solidly delivered on that. The unspoken, perhaps unintended consequence is that a lot of features we see in other platforms weren't there. In their own words, some of those features were an intentional aspect of the "new approach". Just read why they chose not to have a way to save camera settings. Read why they didn't initially have copy & paste. They had specific reasons, albeit ones that did NOT take into account the VOC, for doing it the way they did. I do not, however, believe Microsoft "made" you believe anything. We believe what we choose to believe. You can fault them for false advertising, if you like, and I doubt you'll find too many who disagree. I absolutely believe WP7 is a new user experience, even as it is, missing components and all.
As customers, we certainly have every right to express our voice with the hope that Microsoft (and don't think for a second that the iPhone lovers didn't go through this and the Android lovers aren't going through this right now) will listen and work to address those concerns. I tend to look at all of this very similarly to how Paul Thurrott does (though I disagree on a few things), and I don't think there's a MUCH talent working WP7 as you might think. I'm sure you've seen the various laundry lists of "wants" or "demands" that WP7 users have posted elsewhere. And many of those lists have features that directly conflict with each other, not to mention possibly conflicting with the core design of the OS. Just how simply is it, really, to reconcile those desires and incorporate them? And how much harder is it when OEMs are jacking around with your specs? Oh, and then you have carriers who insist in slipping in their useless bloatware. So, while I'm not giving Microsoft a pass, my expectations are now tempered by what I know about the current arrangements between Microsoft, OEMs and carriers (known only because we finally brow-beat Microsft into sharing at least some of it).
As for the "brat" comment, I was both referring to your summary dismissal of @Sirrusty as a "fanboy" and your personal attack of the WP7 GM as well as use of foul language. Your anger and frustration is completely understandable and mostly justified, and all of us are guilty of going overboard at one point or another. In this case, inasmuch as @Sirrusty may have sounded like a "fanboy" you sounded like a "hater" (which I don't think you are).
@yaoyang, you're seeing one of the huge issues I have with ANY carrier being involved in updates or software at all. I remain convinced that they don't have any worthwhile talent to be doing it in the first place, and they certainly have no substantive structure for true customer support. There absolutely should be department, easily discoverable and reachable by customers, responsible for maintaining all pertinent knowledge of the devices they are carrying and the update processes & status. But you will not find that at AT&T. The best you can hope for is to post on AT&T's Facebook page. Sometimes they will address customer concerns directly, but it always starts with something like "Contact me at xxxxxxxxx so I can have a chance to resolve your issue". This implies that there is no real department for WP7 or device update issues, but rather they have to start a chain of events and contacts that hopefully result in a phone call or email to someone who has a clue at AT&T. More often than not, AT&T will give you the same answer we've seen here: "We have no new information, but we'll update you when we do".
@Sirrusty, okay, to be fair, I don't think you should wish anyone's phone gets bricked. @BuckeyeTico's anger and frustration are pretty righteous, even if I disagree with some of his definitions or characterizations. Personal attacks don't have any place in the discussion, really. I would love for everyone's phones to get fixed and be brought up to date. I would love for noone to feel like they have to unlock their phones or use other workarounds just to get updates that Micrsoft says are now rolling out. It would be nice to know who is ultimately deciding the WP7 update tempo and why they believe huge batch & queue is better than a small-but-frequent updates. It's probably a decision being made far above those actually tasked with working the updates. My opinion, of course.
@ScubaDog2011 yeah sorry about that.. I don't wish anyones phone gets bricked, it was just a roundabout way of asking someone to chill out (hence the line before saying "if you don't change your attitude")...I guess I just have something in me that types faster than I think and should have known humour doesnt translate to blog comments too good. I also appologise for the description of what i said i'd do if I was Eric.. again doesn't read as humour and looks like i'm being nasty... It was just me imagining what I would do if some one slagged me off on my companies website and I had the power to take revenge. Looking back through the commentsI probably don't take this whole thing as serious as some of you guys so if my banter offended anyone whoops, sorry.
yes i've been defending microsoft about this update (i've worked for massive IT companies in the past and know all the red tape and secrets that go on) I don't think its right.. just a reality of big business. anyone who did know me in 3D would struggle to call me a "fan-boy", I'm actually more of a fan boy of fender guitars and beer.. again this is a side effect of commenting on blogs against the opinion of the majority of posts and I knew that when I first commented saying i wasnt worried about this update.. as long as I could get Mango.
@BuckeyeTico - Trust me if you saw the comments in this forum 2-3 months ago, they would make yours look like the writings of Ghandi. A lot of us were literally livid, we've since tempered expectations as the WP team has stopped telling the mis-truths they led us to believe in the second half of 2010. Massive screw up the first 5-6 months after release...YES. But you can't expect a complete 180 overnight, at this point we just need steady progress and accountability. The 180 isn't complete, but from where they were 2-3 months ago, they have certainly gone at least 45 degrees.
@Sirrusty good luck with the new phone, let us know if that fixes the Blueooth issue,
as thats the only reason I am still carying my IPod Touch with me, once you get used to wirefree headphone its impossible to go back to using wired ones,
@ammughal thanks. i'm not expecting it to work first go but will get a new phone every two days till it does! after 5 replacements for the same problem they offer a list of alternative phones (i couldnt take that option with my dodgy Toshiba TG01s as it was far beyond the specs and screen size of the others at the time), by which time hopefully we may have more info on whether I should stick with the Omnia 7 or jump ship. It would be a shame as I love the screen and OS. I guess i'm lucky in that as I pay for extra insurance every month I dont have to send the broken ones away for repair as they collect them within 24 hours at the same time as dropping the new ones off... must cost them a fortune/
if I get a working one i will give you its details suchs as radio versions etc so you can request the same.
Are you kidding us?! In half of May some users including me still haven't got NoDo even Pre-Nodo(February update!)