Updates resume to Omnia 7 phones

Updates resume to Omnia 7 phones

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Hi everyone.  I know some of you are eager for Samsung Omnia 7 and Focus news.

Today we restarted updating Omnia 7 phones. The restart is happening in phases. Go to the Zune software and manually check for an update. If you don’t see one today, look again next Tuesday when we plan to deliver updates to additional Omnia 7 customers. Operators being targeted in later phases include Deutsche Telekom, Orange, and SFR.

What will be in the update?  If you haven’t already received the March “copy and paste” update, you’ll receive one update that includes both “copy and paste” and 7392.  If you installed copy and paste before we halted updates to Omnia 7s, you’ll just get 7392. You can learn more about our updates and how to install them from Update Central.

We don’t yet have an update readied for the Focus variant, but we are making solid progress.  Mike or I will jump online when we have it definitively scheduled for you.

One final important note. A small number of people who’ve already installed the March “copy and paste” update on their Omnia 7 might have trouble installing 7392, but Samsung today published a new tool designed to fix this. If you get stuck during installation, please see this support article, which contains troubleshooting steps and a link to the new Samsung tool.

Eric Hautala, GM, Customer Experience Engineering

292 Comments
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  • @sirrusty ... thanks for the response and update.

  • 3 hours after i wrote this: spontaneously there are updates available when i connect my phone to my pc.

    smooth update in 15 minutes.

  • Anyone an explanation for the fact that the WPSupportTool.exe does seem to connect and update my phone and the samsung tool does not. If the cause is the bootloader, cant the WPSupportTool fix this?

  • Got my Samsung T-Mobile updated and ready. =)

    But I have a problem with MMS. Since I have an unlocked T-Mobile Samsung phone I am unable to send an recieve MMS messages. Does anyone else have this problem and is there a solution?

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @cgcrunner Samsung focus updades are on hold I believe while a new update package/procedure is finalised to work with two different twpes of memory samsung used in the phones. Hope that helps.

  • I purchased the Samsung Focus 2 weeks ago and was eager for the recent update that includes copy/paste.  I have spent hours trying to figure out how to get this update.  Is the update process completely random?  I called ATT and they don't have answers.  Considering returning.  Does anyone have suggestions?

  • Interesting note: on the first reconnectg after Jig / Samsung tool / 7392 Zune briefly showed the phone as being called GT-i7800, not Samsung Omnia 7. Then if corrected itself...

  • Got my Omnia 7 unto download mode using a jig and used the Samgung tool, 7392 is now loaded BUT my bootloader is still 4.10.1.9, and the phone still won't go into download mode when booted with the magic buttons (vol up, camera and power).  I guess I need to hang on to the jig,

  • Zulhardy
    26 Posts

    Its quite likely that Orange is adding some custom software to the update like ATnT's address book function. I know Tmobile update comes with a new firmware upgrade for the Omnia 7 that fixes accidental capacitive button touch when playing games or surfing web.

    However this firmware upgrade did not make it to the rest of Omnia 7 users around the world.

  • I love how no one from Microsoft hasn't been on to advise us on what's going in with the update for Samsung Omnia 7 Orange customers. Has anyone else got their NoDo update on Orange?

  • @wljh28 yes it does seem like there was an update on the tool yesterday but hash checkers confirm that this is EXACTLY the same file! Who're they trying to fool?!

  • wljh28
    11 Posts

    www.samsung.com/.../supportPrdDetail.do   choose software.. There is an update for the tool yesterday. Do you want to try it again?

  • wljh28
    11 Posts

    the method was suggested by Samsung when I spent 5 pounds called customer service.. For me its work.. If it cannot work, I have no idea what can do more.

  • Yaay, got the updates for my Omnia 7 UK t-mobile atlast. Thanks for keeping you word, Microsoft.

  • @wlhj28  been there, done that, but stil stuck in the reboot loop :(

  • tchnorton
    10 Posts

    I'm another disgruntled Orange UK Omnia 7 user.  I would be less disgruntled if someone could tell us when the NoDo update is coming our way, and perhaps why there is the delay now that the problem has been solved.

    Please let us know - Eric's post of 17 May suggested that we would get it yesterday.    

    Thanks in advance, Tom

  • Web63
    19 Posts

    On Orange in the UK here, still on (7008). No update... so what now, wait for the next phase?

  • Finally updated my Omnia 7 (on T-mobile HR). Just hope that for Mango we woudn't heve to wait so much time.

  • @wlhj28 I have tried this multiple times since the tool's release with no difference...

  • wljh28
    11 Posts

    support.microsoft.com/.../en-uk   solution for Samsung Omnia 7 reboot loop issue when updating phone from 7390 to 7392 in Windows Phone 7

  • To those having boot loop issues when attempting the 7392 update from 7390: according to this article support.microsoft.com/.../2530409 we should be able to get to the "Connect to PC" screen when holding the camera down button during boot-up. I can't get this to work on mine. Might this be the cause of the issue for the boot loop?

    Thanks!

  • To all of you WP7 owners –especially those with an HTC Arrive from Sprint, I finally got the 7392 update and installed it without any issues in about 20 minutes.  I still feel sorry though for those of you who are still waiting for pre-NoDo and NoDo updates.  I guess I am not going to get excited about Mango –and MS should feel the same way, until all and everyone finally have the latest updates on our phones.

  • Now I put my question forward, as you've promised on various occassions that we would get our update, this is the second week I've still not got an update. Where is the update? & DO NOT tell me to look at the link you've told everyone else to look at, you and me both know that's not correct for ****. I do hope we can come to some sort of arrangement, otherwise I'm returning this handset, and I'm going to advise all my 4500 FACEBOOK friends on how NOT to get a WINDOWS PHONE 7.

    GOOD DAY.

  • I think it's disgusting that we've waited three months for a flipping update, I can't imagine how long it'll take for the Mango update to get to us. It's absurd, STOP TALKING TO US LIKE WERE CHILDREN. & give us some answers. I find your company your lack of communication and your form of communication absolutely dispicable. Here's a news flash Microsoft, we pay you to sit on your back sides. For 500 pounds a handset, I atleast deserve a better form of communication. Venting my anger out on a simple wall post, I think you've lost many customers. 3 months for a bl**** update. FIX UP MICROSOFT FIX THE ***** UP.

  • I love how my comments aren't being shown as quickly as I'd have liked, which only gives me the feeling that your moderating all the comments. Which probably leads to me now thinking, there are many more annoyed customers out there.

  • Your phone "SAMSUNG OMNIA7" is up to date.

    Current Version: 07.00.07004.03

  • This is the last time I buy a Windows Phone. I have a T Mobile HU Omnia 7 and still stuck with 7004. No updates ever, no support, no one to speak to. Samsung blames Microsoft, Microsoft does not release timely updates, but when I remember paying 600 EUR for a mobile phone it feels like being cheated.

    I am filing a complaint with Consumer Protection as I have been waiting for an update for the past 3 months and still nothing.

    I am going back to Iphone, at least there I know that there is an update available for everyone and not for selected operators, selected handsets and so on... shame on both: Microsoft and Samsung. Not to speak about T-Mobile.

  • wljh28
    11 Posts

    T mobile Omnia 7 UK got the updates now.

  • Marek
    22 Posts

    Installed 7008 downloading 7392.. Omnia 7 T-mobile CZ(Deutsche Telekom brand).. Thanks MS BUT next time early please :))

  • Web63
    19 Posts

    @mcoulter785: i know exactly how you feel. I had a feeling that us Orange users would still end up waiting

  • Still no update for me on Orange :-( starting to get fed up now.

  • thanks for heads up installing them now

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    Resistor jig worked for me. 301k Ohms. Download mode accessed and Samsung patch applied - Just awaiting the notification for 7392 update now.

  • Pault
    5 Posts

    Yes... updates just appeared. As promised.

    Good work all at MS fixing up the initial Omnia 7 problems.

  • I just received it!!!!!!!!!    Patience everyone. You will get it  TODAY !

  • Mines Tmobile from Germany too and no update

  • WHERE"S IS THE UPDATE MICROSOFT?   IM EXTREMELY ANGRY WITH THIS RIDICULOUS SITUATION

  • Same here, T-Mobile branded Omnia 7 (O2 Germany net), still no update available. Let's really hope it's a Time-zone issue

  • Omnia 7 uk orange, walshed and then fixed, no may update.

  • Indeed; no update for me either (T-Mobile UK). I'm assuming (hoping?) it's just a timezone thing and they'll roll in as the West coast wakes up.

  • wljh28
    11 Posts

    still no updates today... its 24th May right? Would you mind to advise me when will the updates come?

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @Freypal i've replied but it may go to your hotmail junk box... yours did.

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    @Sirrusty No worries hehe. I'll drop a mail - Mine is as per my logon here freypal @ hotmail.com

    I appreciate the assistance!

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @Freypal i've got a really busy day today so probably wont be on here much.. will be tuning into the Mango press conference though in the background. I can answer all your questions but may be easier to do via email as the reply may be too long for here.. My email address is sirrusty@hotmail.com but please give me at least a few letters of your email address here so I know the mail is from you.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    um... prehaps at least give them till some kind of human hour in the US...

  • gfox
    1 Posts

    Samsung Omnia 7 ... T-Mobile UK ... today is the "next day" ... but still no update ... stuck on 7.0 (7004) ...

  • sks119
    1 Posts

    It is May 24 now and where is the promised t-mobile Omnia 7 update?????

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    @Sirrusty - Yeh I guess that's true. I'm really not sure what to do now. I don't really want to have to drive all the way to a service centre and leave my phone there then have to drive back. When you jigged yours was it fairly simple? I see there is now a good guide on XDA for the Omnia 7. I'm guessing just being resistors over the usb port that there shouldn't be any danger of shorting something out and damaging the phone.

    Did you just get it into download mode and then apply the samsung patch and go to 7392 or go ahead and flash completely new firmware?

    Aaaaalllsoo.... Since Orange are supposed to be pushing the 7392 update today I'm not expecting it to work due to my bad bootloader however a couple of guys on XDA said they updated with 4.10.1.9 so i guess it's at least worth trying.

    My question is if i try and install and it gets stuck in the reboot loop, what is the correct procedure to abort the update?

    Disconnect the cable then pull the battery and reboot? Just pull the battery?

    And will i need to recover it at all via zune or will the update just fail and when i reboot the phone it will be ok?

    Thanks! lots of questions there!

  • My Omnia7 hangs on the reboot step. I tried running the Samsung tool, but when trying to boot into the "fix-mode" it also hangs there. Unfortunately this is a European phone and I'm located in the US, so I don't have an option of returning it :(

  • Zulhardy
    26 Posts

    Frankly getting a little tired from the lack of official response here. I'm just about ready to throw this piece of junk into the trash and go back to my tried and tested Nokia 2700 Classic..

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @Freypal lets take another example... you buy a DVD player from tesco, someting the manufacturer says you should be able to do doesn't work... within the first year you take it back to tesco not the manufacturer?

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    I dont think it matters if the updates were approved by anyone... if a manufacturer or software provider has an issue and its nowt to do with orange.. they still sold you the phone and as such have a responsibility as your first point of contact? thats how I read it.

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    @sirrusty - I would have thought so. I'm going to call again as i was unhappy with what I was told and couldn't really escalate it whilst at work. The fact she told me the updates weren't approved by Orange was an out and out lie.

  • Any word yet on the Focus v1.4 updates?  Or is the plan to roll them all into the Mango update for the Focus v1.4?

    -waiting semi-patiently...

  • I heard Steve is going to  announce more than 500 nre features tommorw. @ERIC all of us here are really frustrated on the way you people handle the updates. How do u expect us to wait years for a small update?? each time you say we learned our lessons from our past experience. the fact is that you havent learn anything and you are making the people who support you at your initial stage even more frustrated.

    please pass my message to steve that it is better he announce 1 new feature and provide the update on time

  • @sirrusty they gave a reference number too, yes, but I actually got rid of it and didn't save the details a day or two ago. :/ If this goes on without any updates on the issue and I get confident enough to lose my texts, I will do the flash. I'm on Three btw.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    by the way my resistors for my homemade JIG cost 48p from a maplins store. One 300k (could have just used that.. then it would have been 24p) but also added a 1K to get the resistance to the recommended 301K total.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @Freypal as the problem has been acknowledged with the bootloader here, the updates are official and its less than 12 months old technicaly don't the retailer have to deal with any issues by law?  i'm not too hot on that kind of stuff but I thought that was standard.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @florinr08 I guess getting an address or phone number of the local service center counts... its more than most have been given! did they give you a call refference number too?

    yes I did have the faulty bootloader, but more than that I found my phone to be unusable due to freezez and dropped calls, although the bluetooth worked great so i didnt want to get it swapped and their was no guarentee from orange that I wouldnt keep getting sent ones with the same problems... although orange had told me I would get a new replacement phone its firmware,radio etc were all quite early versions so I put the troubles down to that.

    The straw that broke the cammels back was hearing that the capacitive buttons are disabled when playing games in new firmware (i often play phone games with my young kids and they were constantly quitting the games by hitting the buttons). I was fully aware things could have gone wrong but had just had enough of my phone freezing that day and was prepared to throw it in the bin had the worst happened.

    I give the following info as info to compare, not an advert to go do it yourseves! as I said I was prepared to junk my phone and switch to a different model had it not worked.

    obviously I never had nodo or 7392 before so i dont know what is down to that and what is down to firmware update but the phone is a lot more responsive now. i've lost the bootloader problem, calls are not dropped (although slightly quieter now, i know this can be fixed if needed in diagnostics mode), orange bloatware gone (except orange maps navigation.. i put that back) and everything on the phone still works (MMS, paying for apps via orange bill etc)

    On a different note i've just found that my friend & manager at the service center I worked at many moons ago now works for Samsung!

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    I got my phone on contract through Orange yes. I was pretty annoyed at their response. They were peddaling some rubbish about the update being nothing to do with Orange. When i pointed out that the update went through a carrier testing phase from Orange she said that they had nothing to do with it and it came staight from MS.

    I did point out this wasn't true but it's like banging your head against a brick wall. They flat out refused to do anything about it. My only option then is to try and jig it myself or take it into this carphone warehouse centre and let them jig it.

    I've been with Orange for years and this is the first bad experience i've had and it's seriously annoyed me.

  • @sirrusty does being given the address to a repair centre nearby count as being offered a fix? :P And also why did you flash yours again? Did you have the faulty bootloader? And if not, what did you flash it to/with (versions) and did that enable you to get the 7392 update? I'm not asking for procedural steps, just interested to know how far you mean that "it's spot on now"? :)

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @bgetreu I can't speak for them.. but I would have thought that now its on the Radar shouldnt be a problem in the future, they will know to make updates to accomodate both types.

  • I received a Samsung Focus 1.4 for Mother's Day.  Should I take it back to At&T and ask for a Rev 1.3?  I don't mind waiting for the update, but I fear this delay will happen for each and every update.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    Did you buy your phone directly from Orange?

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    makes you wonder why some of us are loyal to certain brands and carriers don't it.

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    Aaaaand Orange refuse to do anything about it. They say it's Microsoft's fault for distributing faulty software. Fantastic.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @Freypal well done mate... you have become the second person go get a fix offered.. I fixed mine myself in the end as my phone was awful reliabilty wise but didnt want to risk another from orange with other problems, at least all mine were software/firmware related.. have to say its spot on now.

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    And then i've called my service centre who reckon a couple of days for them to flash it. I don't know whether to go down that route or warranty through my carrier :s

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    Just rang up again. The guy who I spoke to again went off to ask about the problem and came back to me and asked me to describe the problem. He said he understood and gave me the address of a local Samsung service centre where they would re-flash it under warranty.

  • Oh yeah, that would be an interesting read!

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    I'd love to se an article on the update process behind the scenes on this blog before mango comes out so we could understand the complexities and methods.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @turtlebreath I agree fully.. its odd, I guess they know lots of people aint impressed and not to improve it and minimise the chance of this happening again would be suicide especialy among die hard early addopters who want to recomend it to friends but don't feel like they can at the moment... its a newish platform and relationships between manufacturers and MS are being explored, people fairly expect better next time. As michael says much much further up this thing... They know what is expected for mango. I believe them.

  • @sirrusty.  It makes no sense to hold back the security update for the Samsung Focus where people already have the 7390 update and they are not affected by the flash memory problem.

    It has been 19 days since the 7392 update was announced on May 3rd -- which is supposed to only be a fix with a few security updates. In fact, it's only supposed to revoke a few problematic certificates.   If this is all the update is,  why is it not released?

    I'm not really too worried about the certificates and 7392 update... but what this says is that Microsoft has not fixed the updating process.  I'm not optimistic that Mango will be improved.

  • moonman
    5 Posts

    What the hell? I can't get to download mode. I have 4.11.0.3 bootloader and JK1. What should I do? This whole update procedure is a complete MESS.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @Freypal you are right to be cautious, if something goes wrong while doing it you are one your own with no basis for complaint.

    I've discovered Orange was probably less that honest to me about my replacement phone, when It was replaced before, as it was under 28 days old they promissed I would get a new one not a recon or return. Ive now discovered through a bit of poking round I believe I may have been sent a customer return in the box to make it look new and am suffering the problems they probably sent it back for... I'm so tempted to try and solve these problems with a flash.. my one reservation is some kind cheveron style anouncement like "we are rolling mango out now, customers who have previously changed their firmware may experience difficulties...etc,etc..." then again I could just buy a new phone if that happens I suppose. Insurance or self fix... its a dificult one.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @Zulhardy I know what you are thinking by susspecting nodo itself.. but don't forget  its OK on most devices and the same problems you have were the ones supposed to be addressed in that samsung fix. my money is still on a slight hardare difference.. whether the nodo & 7392 update process could have been written to be more inclusive and hardware inspecific only Microsoft know at this time.

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    I was never confident enough to flash ROMs back on my WM6.1 so I don't feel confident to do it on this with all the problems floating around.

    Hopefuly someone from MS is going to respond here on monday.

  • Zulhardy
    26 Posts

    My PC has more definitely more than 5GB space and I managed to free my phone's space to 4.75GB by deleting all my games. It's still stuck at step 6 even after using the Samsung tool.

    Thanks Victor for your help but I won't flash my firmware and lose everything.

  • VictorWPB
    47 Posts

    @Zulhardy  

    Does your PC have enough space for phone’s backups (you need at least 5GB of free space)?

    If you have enough space on your PC, try to remove some of your files from the phone (my available storage on the phone is usually 4.5GB) then try to update the phone by ZUNE.

    If the update stops in stage 6, backup your phone and then reset your phone (Hard Reset). Also you can flash your phone by the new firmware. The CSC file is missing, you can use your old CSC file from I8700XXJK1 package.

  • Zulhardy
    26 Posts

    Victor. Phone shows 2.25GB free.

  • VictorWPB
    47 Posts

    @Zulhardy  What is Available Storage on your device?

  • Zulhardy
    26 Posts

    Update!

    imageshack.us/.../newbootloader.jpg

    I've managed to update ONLY the bootloader shown here, I did not flash the firmware and my stuff is still intact. And the phone STILL cannot update pass step 6 and Samsung tool doesn't fix it. I'm convinced that it's the NODO update that's causing it now.

    My phone specs are as shown.

    OS Ver: 7.0.7390.0

    Firmware HW Rev No: 2424.10.11.1

    Hardware Rev No: 3.15.04

    Radio Hardware Version: 0.0.0.800

    Bootloader Version: 5.3.0.4

    Chip SOC Ver: 0.36.2.0

  • VictorWPB
    47 Posts

    @Zulhardy -----------Yes it is possible, leave the CSC blank. Radio (GSM & WiFi) Software and  Bootloader will be updated. You do not lose any data.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    You can replace bootloader and radio without changing the os yes. Side effects unknown at this time. Read one report of worse signal.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    Well after this evenings phone disasters I may just follow you! Frequent dropped calls after which all audio stops till reboot, trying to video sons playing.. Complete lockup needing reboot, audio dropouts playing music needing reboot.. If that's my reward for trying to keep offical then balls to the warranty! I was gonna just replace the bootloader but if theese issues don't pack their bags by tomorrow....

  • Zulhardy
    26 Posts

    Victor, I'm looking at the ROM files now and I'm seeing 3 ROM files, bin(Phone Image), eb0(PDA Boot Image) and nb0(PDA Image). Is it possible to just flash the PDA boot Image to upgrade the bootloader but leave the rest alone?

  • VictorWPB
    47 Posts

    I've Flashed my Omnia 7. Firmware: (I8700XXKC1_XXKB2)

    Details:

    Firmware version is now: 2424.11.3.1

    Radio Software version : 2424.11.2.2

    Bootloader: 5.3.0.4

    Improvments:

    1) The capacitive buttons are now disabled while an application/game is running (no longer accidentally exist an app/game while playing)

    2) GSM and WiFi seem to be improved with this new radio software

    3) Faster web content downloding

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @sarasera although please log a call with them yourself if you havent.. I know it can be frustrating when they won't listen but when enough people call the penny may drop.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @sarasera I will speak to samsung about this over the weekend or monday when the people who know will be there... I don't have that problem myself but seem the only person who has got anywhere with them (from here anyway)... I don't know if thats just fluke or knowing how to deal with service centres. i'm sure they know about it by now and are working on a new fix.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    Regarding the focus updates are on hold due to Samsung using different memory in some phones.. Shouldn't be long now, its been known about for a while now. There's a bit in the top about it.

  • @sirrusty I'm having the same problem as @florinr08 and @Zulhardy. I was stucked at step 6. Then install the Update tool without problems. Then tried again to update but still in a loop at step 6.

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    I won't be flashing mine as I am carrier tied and have insurance through them so do not want to do anything that may invalidate it.

    If I am left with no other option I will get it replaced under warranty/insurance through my carrier. At the end of the day if i get sent another device with problems i will just keep returning them until i get another good one!

  • When is 7392 expected to be released for the Samsung Focus on AT&T? I'm on 7390 (obtained through the official mechanism instead of hacks).  I know it's simply a security fix for a few certificates, so I'm confused by why it hasn't shown up yet.    I sync through Windows Phone Connector for Mac, if it makes a difference.

    The 7392 release isn't on the 'where is my update' page, so I don't know how close or far away the update will be. It's a bit sad when a security update takes several weeks to be released -- what is going on?

  • Zulhardy
    26 Posts

    I would flash my phone if I was 100% certain everything I have on the phone remained intact. But sadly, all flashing operations will wipe the target device clean.

  • Yeah I would suggest leaving stuff like this to XDA or similar sites...

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    Cheers, it's kind of a weird one for me, I've flashed stuff in the past... Its just here there is a real mix of casual phone users and more experienced folk and its a site run by MS who will stop unmoderated posts if things get out of hand.

  • myan
    19 Posts

    @sirrusty yeah thanks for your statement... this seems to be very risky... but since I do not have a working download mode I can not use it anyway... :(

    So please do it only if you are 100% sure about the risks as sirrusty said.

    I would be so happy if I could provide any better help here sorry :(

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    and yes you do need access to download mode.

  • sirrusty
    122 Posts

    @myan hey mate,  read notes above quickly before you decide to flash.. its entirely up to you obviously but you may be harming your chance of support(?) in the future if any other little issues show up or if the firmware has any issues on your particular network. as long as you don't mind that go for it.

  • myan
    19 Posts

    hey friends; i just read that the Omnia 7 firmware + Nodo has been leaked... http://tinyurl.com/3jmadr8

    Do we need to access the broken download mode to flash this firmware?

    I don't know if this will solve any of the known issues here but I think that carrier branded phones that might have problems when updating could find this useful (???)

    Futher I have know idea if that does change your current bootloader versions...

    For those who try out this firmware: please post some results here...

    Try it for your own risk - I am not responsible for damage related to this post...

    I hope that this will bring back some fun - at least for some of us... :)