Hi everybody. Yesterday we resumed delivering updates to Omnia 7 owners with SFR in France. That’s all the news on the update delivery front this week.
I did quickly want to also draw your attention to Where’s my phone update?, since we made a few small changes to the table.
First, the table now reflects our new naming convention for software updates: build numbers. So the update formerly known as “February” is now listed as 7008. 7390 is the March update. Referring to updates by software build number is a standard industry practice, and we made these same changes to the the Update history page on the Windows Phone website several weeks ago.
Finally, we’ve added 7392—the only other update we’re currently shipping—to the table, because several of you asked to see it listed. That’s all for this week.
Eric Hautala, GM, Customer Experience Engineering
@D-Burrs I did get Michael to respond to me on the Q&A: The story behind Music search blog. He skipped over me and then came back and responded. Still no news but at least I got a response.
I agree that a facebook or twitter account we can follow would be good to bring visibility. The big problem is that the majority of 1.4 focus users do not know or necessarily care about getting updates as they are not super geeks like us (no offense intended) who read windows phone blogs. We are a distinct minority and apparently we *can* be effectively ignored. At this point I fear we will just have to purchase brand new phones at full price when mango comes out. Or maybe the bulk of 1.4 victims will notice at that point that they can't play with all the new mango goodies that MS will be advertising the heck out of and rise up.
'One must imagine Sisyphus happy' -Camus
@D-Burrs I have been trying to drop a note on all of the blogs hoping to get a response from someone. I just want to make sure that we do not get forgotten. A weekly update, maybe a ETA on the fix, anything at this point would be nice.
Personally I think its disgusting the way our posts are ignored. Surely somebody must know what’s going on and have some answers, I mean if we can’t get some sort of response on the official blog about these issues it doesn’t bode well for WP7 support overall does it?
@jburch - I was just wondering the same thing. Also thinking of starting a facebook page for windows phone 7 samsung focus 1.4 owners, maybe a twitter account as well...
Any news for us Omnia 7 Orange users?
No word on the Samsung1.4 issue this week?
@ScubaDog2011 Purely based on the where's my update site which just mentions the carrier and status as testing with no further details. I could be wrong but thats all I could interpret from that table.....
+1 for Samsung Focus 1.4 info.
@nsaditya, what makes you think it's AT&T testing it? I see nowhere any indication that this is the case. Believe me, I cannot stand AT&T's involvement in the update process other than as a point of connectivity. I think they need to get rid of their software department and get out of doing ANYthing to any device. It should all be between the OEMs and Microsoft, in my opinion. And I know that AT&T WAS the major reason for the NoDo delay. But, I don't believe they are in the middle of the 7392 delay. I think this truly is between Samsung and Microsoft. It's just that AT&T happens to be the exclusive carrier of the Focus. Notice the the Omnia is having problems, too. It's certainly not the carrier that's in common. It's the OEM. Samsung. So, I'm happy to join the "bash AT&T" circus when it's appropriate, but let's be fair.
I think one of the most worrying aspects of all of this is that in earlier blog posts Michael Stroh was replying to questions and concerns. The last few he hasn't answered our concerns which leads me to believe there are some pretty big issues going on.
Seriously, what does it take to help at&t to complete their "testing" and allow us get our updates???
@Digitall, I suspect the revision was more than just memory. It may well have been additional circuitry and/or firmware to handle it. Anyone who has worked on desktop computers knows that just you can't just pop in any old memory. And even a so-called "compatible" memory card may reveal performance or compatibility issues later. Then there's the spectre of whether or not your BIOS can handle the memory. On more than one occasion I've had to download a BIOS update to a motherboard to let it accept particular memory or a different CPU. So, I never, ever assume that a revision change was a minor thing.
@sirrusty I know, I thought it would fix it for me too. :( I presume it's part of the OS somehow, yeah, since download mode is for Samsung and connect to pc mode is for WP7. I dunno, anyway, still waiting on the patch to get a refresh or just some sort of a solution.
About Video Playback on Windows Phone from Skydrive..
I just want to get video playback from skydrive to a Windows Phone. I have to read if that is to be included in Mango or not. If i record a video on my Trophy and then push it up to my skydrive, my friends and family cannot play the video on a Windows Phone. When friends or family select my pfofile from thier Windows Phone, and see that i posted a new video on skydrive they recieve a ' Device cannot playback video' on thier phone. WHY IS THIS SO?????? The video can be viewed on a computer browser but not a Windows Phone????
It is hard for me to believe how messed up this update process is. The communication of the problem and fix timelines is the most frustrating. I would like for MS/Samsung to just own up to the fact that the phones are fundamentally broken and that they should be repalaced (for free) with phones that are able to accept updates. I cannot think of any other product where is i could not get updates for over three monthes, I would be completely stuck with the product. At this point though, I believe the only fix is to plunk down another $500 for a new phone. That is really poor customer service and I am very disappointed in Microsoft.
I'm still confident about the fact that small progressive updates are the right way to go.but I understand that since as Microsoft doesn't want to change its update strategy it only can release bulky updates so that it wouldn't have to be dealing with the fiasco frequently caused by its silly update strategy.
Regarding mango,I'm convinced atleast 30% of WP7 users will get it in 2012 reason being the update strategy will not change the Microsoft-OEM-Carrier flow chart will still be in place meaning atleast a month and a halfafter the release date before it gets to devices .
Secondly i bet all the features in Mango will have compatibility issues with some devices which will cause another breakdown as the Omnia Focus history
But what can we do about it?? nothing
AT&T has already proved they can't deliver an update in a timely manner. I am already having anxiety on Mango being months late on AT&T. Can someone ensure that AT&T gets their testing done earlier? ? ?
@StevieBallz - I guess that makes sense, but it's confusing how the update process could be so complex that a new memory chip breaks it to the point of months of re-work when the entire rest of the OS works fine. I'm perfectly OK with blaming the OEM for this (hard to blame AT&T at this point since they don't make the hardware or OS and just resell the package), but the lack of visibility (especially the "That's all the news on the update delivery front this week." line) is getting tiresome.
@ ScubaDog2011 - completely agree. Even if they don't just start pointing the finger at the OEMs, they could at least detail a bit more. Especially in the sense of giving us percentages complete. Assuming the update process is broken, and especially given the number of months it has been since official release, they have to have a list of items resolved in relation to this and a list of remaining items left to be addressed. Take that, give us a 50% or 60% completion ratio and update us each week would satisfy me at least. Consistently saying "we're close, but nothing yet!" isn't right for first adopters. Is there definition of close the same as mine?
Again, there seem to be a number of comments about 7392 being "a simple update" and drawing a fallacious link between a working OS and the update process itself, as if one working automatically means the other should work. You have to remember there are (currently) three players in this entire process: Microsoft, the OEMs and the carriers. Any one of them can mess up. But, there are certain things that are entirely under control of one over the others--and sometimes it won't be obvious. The lazy reaction to throw all of this on Microsoft. In the case of the recent updates, it looks like most of the issues can be faulted by the OEMs---but, as has been observed by others, Microsoft appears to be reluctant to upset their partners by honestly pointing directly at the cause when it doesn't happen to be Microsoft. I've mentioned this before, but this is an example of folks WANTING to know who to blame for this. It's false martyrdom to remain silent and suffer the slings and arrows of this particular outrageous fortune. Here's something I think some have missed....the reason Samsung even kicked out the 1.4 version of Focus (and, I suspect, similar variations going on in the Omnia) is because they were able to successfully flash the same OS to the devices and didn't notice any issues. In other words, they made changes, flashed the OS, didn't bother testing the actual UPDATE process (since they could flash directly) and said, "Well, looks like it works...ship it". Fast forward to present and we discover much to everyone's surprise--particularly Microsoft--these changes DID come at a cost. And some of you have confirmed that this may be the case because I'm seeing traffic that you are able to flash entire updated ROMs but not follow the normal update process. So, indeed it looks like the problem is not BEING on the update, but GETTING to the update.
Having said all that, though, the obvious truth is that all of the speculation could be easily and quickly eliminated by providing a lot more detail on what happened, who the source of the issues was and where they are in the fix progress. It's not magic. It's time to get past the political correctness. It's time to stop falling on your sword. It's time to lay it all out there. Bad news does NOT get better over time. I know that I would be much more accommodating if I have all the facts. I'm betting most people would be the same.
@Florin Radica.. Ah sorry, I presumed the "connect to PC mode" would have been fixed with the bootloader change the same as the no download mode issue was fixed for me.. it must be part of the OS partition on the phone.
@sirrusty Thanks, but I've always had a bootloader with a working download mode. :P I got a bit fed up about a week or so ago and tried the flashing tool on xda and replaced just my bootloader and that worked fine, I'm now on bootloader version 188.8.131.52 but the connect to pc mode still doesn't work and so I still cannot update the OS. :(
I've got a really bad feeling about Mango. If Eric and his team still have so much trouble getting a simple certificate security fix out the door (7932) in a timely manner, what chance in hell is there with the massive update contained within Mango? I sincerely hope that the entire updating architecture is overhauled before unleashing a whopping great big update onto the carriers, who'll shrug their shoulders sit on it for months.
I feel so sorry for any WP7 users in Spain, suffering with Telefonica, their customer's phone contracts will expire sooner than they'll get 7008 - what a mess. It's at times like these, you kind of wish for a little of the old, no-nonsense, competitor crushing, all-consuming might that MS had back in the day, ah well.
I've said before that smaller, leaner updates are the way forward to keep momentum going and to help drive greater interest and anticipation, particularly if you can deliver them on time. I still believe that's the way forward but the current methods used to test, validate and deliver the updates are so broken that it would create more problems unfortunately. It has to be re-thought and I implore MS to do it before trying to throw Mango out the door.
This is a good change, thanks for that, however .. what is going on with Telefonica Spain?! I am (still) a proud owner of the Omnia7 on Movistar (Telefonica) but up till now I must confess I am saddened to see NONE of the updates have made it onto my phone!
I would really like to know what is going on as I am not able to get a response from Telefonica or Microsoft on this matter and feel like I have been left hanging out to dry.
@digitall: The problem with most updates has not been in running the new OS on the hardware but in getting it there. At least that's what the troubles with the Omnia 7 looked like. There was a complete ROM including Nodo that worked without any problems but the Update process instead of a complete flash failed due to problems in Samsungs drivers and firmware/bootloader.
I hope the problems for the Focus will be resolved soon. Also I'm wondering what the trouble with Orange's Omnias is... we'll see.
Do you know maybe if we will get any software update (not security) before Mango will be released ? Or is it now just waiting time till Mango.
I'm a little confused. In March I bought a Focus (dreaded 1.4 version) and, like a number of people here, have been patiently waiting for the update process to begin. I've been consistently keeping up with the posts here and subsequently the comments on each and one thing I've noticed not being asked yet seems kind of obvious to me as a developer: if the Focus's 1.4 version is so drastically different that it takes months to modify the code base to support, and given the perception Microsoft has portrayed of being surprised this 1.4 version even existed, how does the OS itself run on our phone? Why is it the OS itself would run fine on this new version, yet a couple of minor updates (relative in comparison to Mango) take months to modify to support? That doesn't add up to me and I certainly don't think it is only related to a different memory chip.
There has to be more to this story that isn't being shared publicly, although why is beyond me. I love my phone, but the public flogging you guys are taking for this update fiasco has to be getting old. Throw someone else under the bus for a little bit - give us a real target to go after instead of leaving us in the dark.
FWIW (as if this isn't a given), +1 for more detail (significantly so) on why the 1.4 is causing so much trouble.
The security update is still in testing phase for at&t. So @Eric and others at MS - you claims abt learning from previous updates was just bogus. If security update takes months to make it to users implies that the platform is unreliable. Please let us know if you have any plan (or not) to fix these issues? At least if you are honest abt that, we can decide weather to continue using wp7 or move on to another platform which is more reliable.
One month since the 7392 "release" and counting. Will things be better for the next update?
@Florin Radica sounds like you have hit the nail on the head with your problem... as you have download mode I guess you could replace the bootloader which should fix the "connect to PC" mode if you want a diy fix?
@letsrockit yeap, I can confirm you need anger management counselling.
@FLORINRADICAL SHUT THE FUC* UP YOU DIC*HEAD give me a refund other wise, shove your flipping oppinions up your ass you freak. If you don't like the comments don't read them. Ya 'dive.
@letsrockit I say you need to calm yourself down and start having some respect for people! Turn your maturity meter up, it's too low!
& when we do get communication from ERIC we get fuc* all news about orange samsung omnia users. ;) BRILLIANT ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT. ;)
What can be happening with my unbranded Omnia 7 in Spain (Pepephone, operator using the Vodaphone net? I´m stuck at 7004.
@ScubaDog2011 yep, already tried it, applied it, but still does the same thing. I can access the download mode via camera+volUp+power but not the connect to pc mode via camera+power.
@Florin Radica, did you already try the Samsung tool they talked about? Also, is your one of those for whom that USB trick might work?
Just wanted to let you guys know, if you're still reading this, that I'm still waiting on yet another fix to allow my Omnia 7 to update to 7392 from 7390. The logo keeps looping over and over, even with Samsung's patch applied, when trying to update via Zune.
Please do something about Telefonica, they are useless. They are blaming Microsoft, HTC, LG and Samsung so you should all probably have a chat with them or, even better, leave them out of the update process. Please choose the second option :)
Apparently they are going to release the first update for their LG phone in 2 weeks (2 months is more likely), I wouldn't be surprised if they released just the 7008 update whenever that happens. About the Omnia 7 and HD7 they say that the manufacturers are not giving the update priority, whatever that means.
All this I got asking on their forum, if you try calling their phone support they don't even know what you're talking about so yeah, sure, they really want to get to know the updates so their clients can get support when it's released, right...
You can check their answers for yourself (in spanish):
Oh and +1 for Samsung focus REV 1.4......what is this all about?
so why is everyone giving this last post a low score. The update is not even a big or even good update. It doesnt add anything. When you get it the only thing you will notice is that your phone is a littlebit more charged from plugging it in. I raed this a 5*. I had bad experieces with the other updates but this update i dont care about one bit.
Thanks for the update Eric! Hoping the Samsung Focus issues get worked out soon also!
+1 for Samsung Focus Rev 1.4 info. Still. Ever more. Sigh.
@Michael Stroh - It would be nice to also have a Stage 4 - Update Delivered. This would signify that the update has been delivered to every phone in that row. Not that it was installed but that the notification was sent out, and it is available to all users in that row.
+1 for Samsung Focus Rev 1.4 info.
+1 for Orange UK Omnia 7 Info.
Oh, and someone posted a question on one of the other threads that I think I've asked before as well. Are the things that you are running into (and subsequently facilitating the fixes for) going to result in a much faster and more reliable Mango update process?
Well, it would appear that I was correct when I assumed that the problems with sending 7392 to the ver 1.4 Focus forced a complete stop of the update to ALL Focus versions. Okay, I get that. BTW, it's not lost on me that the reason the status still shows as "Testing" is likely between the OEM & Microsoft, rather than because AT&T. It just happens that the Focus is only on AT&T (guilt by association, in this case, I'm guessing). I find it interesting that some assume that the differences between the 1.3 and 1.4 revisions of the Focus are so small that the update shouldn't have had any issues. I think that's pretty naive. You can't know that the change in the NAND flash didn't also incorporate some other firmware or hardware modifications that confounded the coding of the update. Just look at how much difficulty some people have had with adding microSDHC to the Focus. I have the 32GB Kingston class 4 card with no issues, yet other claim their Focus doesn't work with the same card. So, it makes more sense to me that these issues--clearly hardware specifici--are more against the OEM than anything. As much as I HATE AT&T having anything to do with modifying my phone, I can't fairly blame them for this one (given what information we know right now).
I totally applaud the choice to change the "Where's my update?" site to reflect build # rather than the old method. And moving the features associated with each build from the history page to marry up with the update is a great idea, too.
And, while I don't understand why those who have decided WP7 isn't for them haven't already moved on, everyone's complaint about the non-information regarding the devices currently hitting significant issues with the updates is a valid one. It sure seems like we've gone a bit backwards in the communication department. I'm astonished that some Ominia users are having to use a USB trick to get their phones to update. But, seriously, if any devices are currently being held up for testing, there has got to be some way of sharing what the issue is. You can't really expect us to believe that the techs don't know ANYthing. They're testing it, for pity's sake. All it would take is simply telling us something like, "When the update process gets to x it's not letting y happen." No big technical explanation, but something to place context for why fixing it is such a challenge. Otherwise, you get the assumptions that some people are making. BTW, one reason that many push so hard to know is because they want to know who to blame. Of course, even if you tell them, many will still insist on blaming the wrong party. But even with all that said, I think more information is better. So, to say "that's all the news" is probably less accurate than saying, "that's all the news we're willing to share at this time".
Thanks for the update Eric - and for the improvement's to the "Where's my Update?" page...
My Omnia 7 is an unbranded open market device and I´m still stuck in 7004. I´m from Spain and my operator is a small one, Pepephone, wich uses the net from Vodaphone. I have done all the stuff of plugging the phone to zune, and i also have permanently enabled the update notifications in the phone, and still no sign of updates.
+1 for Orange UK Omnia 7 Info. I'm waiting...
In the hope that enough people asking the same question actually warrants a reply - why are you not mentioning Omnia 7s on Orange? I give it two more weeks and then I lose my patience
How many people need to complain and ask on here before we get clarification on the Orange Omnia 7 update??
"Yesterday we resumed delivering updates to Omnia 7 owners with SFR in France. That’s all the news on the update delivery front this week."
What a complete joke.
Your "premier partner" in the U.S. is the ONLY ONE still "testing" 7392.
Every other U.S. carrier is delivering it.
During the update issues I heard JoeB make every possible lame excuse for why carriers need to be involved, and every excuse was complete BS. The simple fact is this: If you let the carriers be the middlemen for YOUR OS updates, you will always be beholden to carriers who don't give a damn. The carriers have NO VESTED INTEREST in promoting or updating your platform. Their interest begins and ends with selling a phone to a customer. Beyond that, they got the money and the contract and they no longer care. And providing updates is counter intuitive to their business strategy: If they keep phones up to date, people will be less inclined to upgrade phones every cycle, thus not giving more money to the carrier(s).
So, again, I'm tired of hearing the excuses. You built a platform that has mandatory specs and OS limitations to ease development and deployment of updates and applications. TAKE THE CARRIERS OUT OF THE EQUATION or you WILL be facing this same update stupidity for each and every update. If you want WP7 to move up and gain ground on iOS and Android, you can't have the carriers being a roadblock between your OS and your end users.
I cant belive it! Just checked where is my update page and... Orange uk is delivering update. Bullshit!
@Eric: thanks for the update, and adding 7392 to the table. Now I don't have to check Zune everyday because I know that AT&T might be months rolling this out. I know you shuddered to put that "Testing" word across from AT&T. We users do as well.
@JoeB, I loved your apology at MIX. With Microsoft continuing to handle customer service in that way, up front and honest, and improving all the time, we'll take off. With the team's progress so far, I look forward to every annoncement.
But will you please chime in with some good news telling us what your team is doing to make sure Mango doens't hang on the vine until it is rotten fruit (especially with AT&T). I would think the "Premiere Partner" would move a little faster than that.
AT&T is dead last again, not even to the scheduling phase. I don't mean to sound all down and out, but I fear they'll just drag mango out to the point of nonexistance. I love my WP7, I really do, but AT&T is making me throw my hat.
Surely the Where's My Update page should also reflect the exceptions, such as the Omnia issues? Its
Does Microsoft employ anyone who understands basic customer service? That post has ignored all the polite (you can ignore the rude ones) requests for information on what is happening with the Orange UK Omnia update. I bought the phone 6 weeks ago having been told the Nodo update, with copy and paste (essential for me), would be available that week. Please give us some information or word of mouth will continue to give wp7 a bad reputation.
What's taking it so long to roll out the updates to the Samsung Focus?
Yes, I know that Samsung decided to make REV 1.3 and REV 1.4 and that's causing issues, but doesn't matter and Microsoft needs to own up the issues.
Again, no update for the Samsung Focus from AT&T. This is simply asinine. Yeah, I know. Samsung released some Focus models with newer NAND flash. And why would that prevent a SECURITY UPDATE from applying? I konw this is falling on def ears. But someone, somewhere has the power to get that ball moving FASTER.
Again, allowing carriers to dictate when updates are released is simply foolish, and will be the single most reason why WIndows Phone can fail.
Thought I'd share a link to an Editorial I wrote on Windows Phone in Australia: www.sheeds.com.au/blog Some common themes from other regional markets outside US I'm sure. :)
Of course the updates cannot be called by month anymore since we are already in June and people are still struggling to get the February update.but what remains in peoples minds is what was said at the start.btw this means mango might not also stick to schedule since I can see Microsoft is running away from dates.Anyways I personally prefer it this way I.e. not giving a date or period rather than giving one which will not be respected.i'll rather prefer Microsoft not to say anything regarding the release date of mango and just announce it the day it is deployed to users.
@Michael Stroh,any replies yet from tour team regarding the browsing issues I have on my HD7,when browsing this blog??
Also my bell HD7 is up to date,I updated my phone genuinely without using any workarounds,I never waited for the notification to appear on my phone though,as soon as Microsoft announced the deployment of an update I just plugin my phone immediately and connect to Zune and Zune always found the update and updated my phone flawlessly
AT&T samsung focus is still watiting... bleh. Why did I buy this phone. The OS is good but AT&T sucks. Jesus this is such a mess. Buyers remorse is terrible.
I understand that this is purely for Microsoft Updates, but can someone from Microsoft give us some information on the mysterious HTC Firmware update? and it's availability around the globe as well?
You know, I don't even need to write anything here for you to know just how many people you have just angered with one single post. Maybe everyone should have skipped the long weekend and finally get these issues resolved....too much to ask for I guess for us "small group of customers impacted". Thanks!
@sanjeev40084: I *love* that suggestion. Currently we have the info on what's in an update listed on the Update history page linked to above.
Thanks for the update. Don't know who is responsible for the update of 'Where’s my phone update?' website. However one feedback which i would appreciate if done in future is 'If the header update number i.e. 7008, 7390 on the table could be a link and each link would reference to whatever feature it includes.' This way the user don't have to search for what each different update number holds just in case if they want to know.