Select a language to translate this page!
Powered by Microsoft® Translator
Testing is done at Telefonica in Spain for all three updates: 7008, 7390, and 7392. The team is now scheduling the rollout. As soon as the update is available for download, we’ll let you know.
I know Omnia 7 owners on Orange are anxious for word about updates. My post was a little bit later than normal this week because we felt oh-so-close to having definitive scheduling news. Mike will pop on the thread the moment we start scheduling. We know you want this news quickly.
Finally, I want to assure Samsung Focus owners who haven’t received an update notification that there are many people across several companies continuing to work on the solution for your phones. We want to make sure you have a quality experience with the update. That is taking time, but we’re not resting until it’s done.
Eric Hautala, GM, Customer Experience Engineering
Hey Eric, can you help us?
Telefonica haven't updated omnia 7 to 7390 and 7392 yet. Wich is the problem????
we are a lot of users desperated for this update and thinking on Mango....
Must we unlock our phone with 3rd party apps to get the updates??
nothing..... still waiting for 7390 and 7392
@MalazNJ – I certainly feel your pain and agree with everything you said. I love the concept of WP7 and have always bought MS products but they failed us big time on this one.
@ ScubaDog2011 – Hey dude, please stop acting as the official voice of MS! Stop responding to the complaints of other as if you were part of the WP7 team! Please stop saying that MS never promised anything as if a promissory note was needed to fall for this phone! Stop your fancy verbatim about WP7 being only intended for casual consumer use as opposed to enterprise use -BS! Please stop your endless responses full of excuses and justifications! Stop defending the undefendable for God’ sake! Who in the hell died to make you the king of the truth? Do you realize how bad you insult our intelligence? Stop it, stop it, stop it!
@Freypal....."singled out"? I don't get your context. Devices on Telefonica just got rolling and the Surround on AT&T was just announced as scheduling. Those of us with the Focus are still waiting, just like you folks with the Omnia. I don't understand why you think you're singled out.
Still want to know why Omnias on Orange are being singled out. Just the reason. That would make me happy.
@Kenny Rawlins, LOL, I'll have to mark this date down ;) Seriously, though, I do think a --teenie-- bit of customization wouldn't hurt, along the lines of what the homebrew community has been playing with. For example, I loaded the app that lets you change the theme to more shades & hues than the standard OS provides (I like purple, but the purple I selected via the homebrew app is much more to my taste). But I've seen some folks want to go hog wild and have, for example, all the tiles backgrounded with a composite picture or something like that. Eeewww. Now, I'd have a hard time tracking it down, but some folks have come up with some imaginative ways to pin custom tiles so that it creates a tasteful, but unique approach to modding the start screen. And the use of semi transparent images for the lock screen is kinda cool. But that's about as far as I'd want to impact the UI. I just don't think most people know just how much you can already play with customization---it would be nice if there was a place where ALL these ideas & discoveries were already centralized. Now, on the iPad, I look at that as a different animal. As much as I hate Apple, they clearly got the iPad right. Although I was not enamoured of a tablet computer--preferring either a very functional smartphone or a full-blown laptop--I have to admit that the iPad has secured a pretty solid niche. In fact, it wasn't until I saw the demos for Windows 8 on a tablet that I found myself rethinking the tablet meme....I might be convinced to get a Win8 tablet ;) We'll have to see.
@Scubadog2011,for once I totally agree with you that the WP UI needs no customization,reason why i prefer apps which use the systems theme color as for their tiles,ot keeps my start screen uniformly presentable
@scuba - exactly how I feel about android and iOS (though I do have an iPad but it wasn't because it is intuitive) more because it's a fantastic device for video and light browsing with tremendous battery life but the icons on a desktop look ugly.
@MalazNJ, I'm not saying you don't have reason to complain. My point is that assumptions are exactly that. We base our assumptions on a number different things, part of which are past experience, but all of which come down to what we individually perceive. As I've read various posts from people, the common thing I've seen is that they had very particular perceptions that colored their expectations, and even created very different interpretations of what Microsoft has said. There are a lot of generalizations going on that I don't think are fair. I've posted numerous times the specific areas where I believe Microsoft missed....and still misses it in some cases. But I think I'm generous enough in acknowledging that while Microsoft may have fully intended certain things at the beginning, a number of things they either didn't fully research or didn't anticipate confounded their original game plan. I use the OEMs' choice to jack with the hardware as an example of the latter, and the importance of certain features like copy & paste or saving camera settings as examples of the former.
As a user, I feel that what WP7 does, it does better than the competition. Where it lacks is in the features that it didn't even come to the playing field with. Some of those features are feature I HATE in the other platforms and I dread the day Microsoft chooses to put those features in. Others will undoubtedly disagree. Such are personal preferences. The Metro UI is one huge reason I went with WP7. The kind of "customizations" I see people posting on would immediately detract from a clean interface, in my opinion, and make it no better than Android or iOS, which I maintain are horribly ugly and cumbersome UIs. Why not simply go to those platforms, in that case? Again, such are personal preferences. Is there room for some customization that doesn't violate the beauty and function of Metro? I think there are. And some in the homebrew community have explored some of those ideas.
Any update info for us Omnia 7 owners on Orange? Surely it has to this week?
@mcoulter785 Exactly! MORE INFO PLEASE ON OMNIA 7!
"I know Omnia 7 owners on Orange are anxious for word about updates. My post was a little bit later than normal this week because we felt oh-so-close to having definitive scheduling news. Mike will pop on the thread the moment we start scheduling. We know you want this news quickly." - What I don't understand is if this was really true and Microsoft were oh-so-close to scheduling news that they delayed the post, it is now 15th June and this post was made on 10th June. Thats nearly a week later with no word which is not really 'oh-so-close'.
How long does the "scheduling" process last? Bearing in mind that the update comes off Microsoft's servers I do not quite understand why Telefonica needs to schedule anything. It's not like their support team will be able to help us out anyway as any knowledge on support is automatically coming from the OEM's service center and not from Telefonica.
I also would like to know if I should go ahead and take back my Samsung focus rev 1.4 and get 1.3 since I am still under the 30 day return.
Even while reading news from news apps I listen to music
@MalazNJ,I listen to music on my WP while doing other stuffs like playing games, browsing.not saying the basic customizations are pointless,in fact I missed them so bad at the start
Omnia 7 Orange UK news? Waiting patiently but patience running out!!!!!!
ScubaDog2011, at least we are agreeing on some things now: It is my fault to believe Microsoft who advertised the phone AND Microsoft did false or incomplete truth advertisement. Either way, I have every right to be upset with Microsoft.
Again, good for you that you like the phone. I would argue if the phone was customer focused, Microsoft should have then allowed many of these little customizations that "customers" would love. My wife would never buy a WP7 phone just because of what it cannot do in the "make it yours" category, international language lack of support, it's a pain to send multiple pictures in one email, lack of ring tone support (custom ring tone), lack of video sharing and lack of multi-tasking where she can listen to music using her app while doing other things.
We can argue whether Microsoft already released a series of udpates or not, as far as I'm concerned NOT. Let's please not insult each others intelligence. I only received 2 updates in over 6 months (that's counting pre-NoDo and NoDo, which are really one update) and they both are not significant (which was the statement in November). Don't play Microsoft's game by playing with words.
and wich is the reason why telefonica must "send" the updates? wouldnt be a totally microsoft controlled thing???
omg, i have Omnia 7 with telefonica here in Spain, and im thinking that ill have mango on 2012. omg =(
@MalazNJ, I'd argue that they HAVE, in fact, released a series of updates over the course of a few months. However, as did just about every other platform, the update process itself, starting out, has been rocked with problems. We could debate over whether or not Microsoft should have already ironed out the PROCESS problems ahead of launch, but the fact remains that at the time they stated their intentions (I disagree with your assertion that it was a promise) they didn't know they would be confounded at nearly every attempt. I'm not minimizing this huge oversight and bad judgement, but I'm being fair. Oh, and if you didn't want to "go there" on your "insignificant" comment, why did you even write it? <cough>
On the "much better control" statement, the part that was missing was 'better than WHAT?'. It is certainly better than the update process was for WM. I absolutely hated that OEMs had 100% control over updates. So, as far as I'm concerned, it IS better. It's going through the same growing pains the other platforms have gone through. We can debate over whether they should be going through those growing pains at all.
On the carrier issue, I completely agree that this was a calculated "omission" on Microsoft's part. I have always been and always WILL be against ANY interference from carriers. I remain steadfast in the belief that carriers should NEVER provide their own software other than as third-party apps like everyone else. I have yet to find a single app that any carrier has created that is worth a thing. They are a connectivity company. The update process should be totally between Microsoft and the OEMs. This, of course, is a problem that plagues ALL platforms, so I don't think we're ever going to see a solution to this one.
And, you are correct, people should not buy ANYthing based on what it will do in the future. I'm of the opinion that anyone who does that has only themselves to fault, regardless of what the vendor is telling them. I'm sorry that you actually believed that WP7 was in any way enterprise-minded. I certainly didn't believe for one second that WP7 was going to do much in the enterprise, even given it was advertised with VERY modest corporate capability. And I don't think it will EVER grow into an enterprise solution---not in the way that WM6 was. And I'm fine with that. I KNEW it was a consumer device and that's why I bought it.
Even with the things it cannot do, I much prefer it over the previous Windows mobile platforms and most certainly over Android or iPhone. I'm excited about what Mango will bring to the table, and I'm hoping Microsoft can literally beat the OEMs and carriers to death so that they fall in line. I'm not holding my breath. But I'm still okay with WP7 as it stands now.
You have very specific needs and you bought the wrong device. I'd argue you didn't do enough homework or, after learning its weaknesses, you chose to ignore the warning signs. Personally, I can recommend WP7 to those who have needs for which WP7 can address, and I can suggest people go with something else if WP7 can't satisfy those needs. It's as simple as that.
"the phone will get a series of significant updates in the next few months", based on this statement, yes I did try the phone and saw the missing features, but I said to myself if I'll be getting these series of significant updates in "few months", I'll keep it for few months. I did not realize that "a series of significant update" will translate to one insignificant (or significant, let's not go there) update.
I couldn't find the original post from Nov 2010, BUT, the CEO of microsoft repeated the same promise during the CES 2011 (in Jan 2011), here is a quote:
Microsoft will release a series of Windows Phone 7 updates over the next few months
Didn't also microsoft say copy/paste will be added "early 2011"??! Does May 24 (that's when my unused phone received it) qualify as early 2011? You are talking about users that, until now (JUNE) don't have the first update!.
Another promise (and this is the main reason I decided to stay with a Windows platform):
"Microsoft will have a much better control over the update process". That was back in Nov. We can argue whether this statement is true or not, as far as I'm concerned it's not.
After releasing the above statement in Dec, microsoft said in Jan 2011 for the first time that carriers can block one update, and in Feb/March we learned that carriers can delay updates indefinitely basically claiming they are testing an update. If I knew about these two facts in November of 2010, I would not have bought the phone.
My issue is when you combine all 3 facts: Much slower updates than Micrsofot promised, carriers blocking one update and delaying the second for testing for months, combine all 3 and you get one update every 6-8 months. My fault for assuming otherwise but that's what we (users) ended with.
Any way, we can argue about the past for months. All are in the past. I guess I should listen to the person who said I should care about what I have now. I have a device that does not connect to Exchange (authentication not supported), does not connect to hidden networks, the SharePoint feature is useless because authentication from my company is not supporeted, is not customizable (no big deal but is on the list), does not support many foreign languages, does not support multi-tasking, and I cannot share videos directly from the device (and this is a big deal for me because I send vidoes of my daughter to my parents daily)...etc.
Given that people should not buy a phone for what it will be able to do (I learned my lesson), and given there are no promises about the timing of the Mango update (because "available in the fall" is a very vague statement that WILL mean available to carriers who will take months to test and then microsoft will take weeks to deliver, followed by finding problems with handsets updating followed by few months fixing the update...., so, fall 2011 will translate to 2012), I cannot recommend this phone to people.
Given the limitations of the phone, given the history of the update process and the lack of any indication it's getting better, I had to switch to another older phone I had and I'll buy another platform in the coming months, something that has what I need out of the box.
As for being able to get the MAC address directly, I called AT&T in Dec and searched on microsoft help blog and both sources said I can't get the MAC address at that time. It should not have been that hard to get a MAC address of a device and I should not have had to wait till May (6 months) to be able to get that.
It just gets worse as we go on. I work for Carphone Warehouse where when customers ask what's it like all I can say is "I miss my blackberry" or "its going to get better when they release mango in autumn" its already a lost battle and if I could afford to get a torch id be gone. And I was so excited and willing to wait mine and alot of everyone elses patience is gone. Being kept in the dark yet still being let down are not the way to treat customers miccy. Sort it out!!!!
Samsung Focus Rev 1.4
@ Michael, Eric - not sure if either of you are following the posts on the MS answers forums as well, but it appears as though at least one Focus Rev 1.4 owner (Francesco Bianco) was through with waiting, and took the step to return his 1.4 to AT&T in favor of a Rev 1.3 phone. It apparently took two weeks to receive the replacement 1.3 phone, which was updated on unboxing (answers.microsoft.com/.../734b0f47-516b-e011-8dfc-68b599b31bf5).
The question that comes out of this:
Should 1.4 owners return their phones for 1.3s, knowing they are looking at a two-week turnaround to get the updated phone they've been waiting for and also knowing the 1.3 phone will give them a better chance of being on a "normal" schedule with the Mango update process ? (con = having to go through and modify settings, download apps, etc. to get the phone to where they had it before)
OR, should Rev 1.4 owners stay pat, and hold onto their phones? (assumes Mango update has been taking into consideration Focus 1.4 since it was first identified, and that there will be no delay on the 1.4 versus 1.3 come the official release; also assumes anticipation of update notification to 1.4 within 3 weeks - allowing for the two week turnaround mentioned + one additional week for getting the new 1.3 device customized to original user settings.
Okay, @MalazNJ, I'm curious to hear what you say was "promised to you" in November. And don't paraphase. Quote your sources. I've seen other people complain about things they claimed to have been "promised", but upon further examination we find that it was their interpration of what was actually said. I remain convinced that I received exactly the device I paid for. I knew up front what it had and what it didn't have. I knew up front that it would NOT be the same as my Windows Mobile device. I don't perceive anything above what I got at purchase as being a "promise". Intention? Yes, definitely intention. Plan? Yes, planned. But I know that what we intend and what we plan---when we don't have 100% control---is never a thing written in stone.
And, before you jump on the "carriers weren't going to be able to block updates" theme, it may surprise you to know that carriers haven't been blocking them. Eventually, each carrier has been rolling them out. It's just that the process itself is so horrible and some carriers have even worse internal processes for testing (as well as adding garbage software themselves) that the effect is not much different than blocking. But I've not seen any report supporting the case that this carrier or that flat out blocked an update. I agree, the end result no less frustrating, but we should be honest.
So, if you have a list of promises, can be persuaded....I'm just not seeing it right now.
The "Where is my phone update" was last updated on 6-1-2011, but at that point, I find it interesting that AT&T is the ONLY carrier still Testing 3392. I fear this doesn't speak well for how quickly the Mango update will get through AT&T testing.
Is there any further news on the bluetooth updates as part of Mango. If it comes with ability to see track and album info on supported bluetooth devices (like my cars headunit that would be awesome. It just says audio track at the minute. :-( My Blackberry works fine however
MalazNJ not wishing to dispute your post....however I have been able to get the MAC address of my Samsung Focus from day 1 DEC 2010 when I bought it. I have a Home Network Program that reports the MAC address of every device connected to my home network....regardless of whether you coulg get the MAC address from within the phone menus or installed apps. :)
Too late for me, I had time to build the famous Samsung USB jig to enter in download mode and flash a ROM dump from an unbranded device... let's hope it's not the same for every update... anyway I won't have this problem next time.
Malaz, what promises as I can't find anything they said the phone would have and it didn't get? Every carrier lets you try out the phone for either a few weeks or a month depending on carrier. If it didn't have the features you wanted why did you keep it? I don't know about you but I buy something on what it does NOW - not what it might do later.
ScubaDog2011, good for you! You should tell as many as you can about the phone if you really like it.
And it's not whining, it's demanding what I was promised on Nov 8, 2010 when I bought this half cooked phone.
Oh, but you'll tell me what other Microsoft defenders already did, "development maps change, Microsoft is thinking of the long term so what if they sacrifice early adopters".
Kenny, Yes, all I have to say is:
1. You'll get promises with no delivery
2. Even though the phone is a microsoft product, apparently not all Exchange authentication protocols are supported, so, you may not be able to connect to your company network
3. Even though it has WiFi connectivity, you will not be able to connect to hidden networks, and I owned this phone for 5 months without being able to connect to the majority of WiFi networks of my friends because they all had MAC filter and there was, until very recently, no way I could get the MAC address.
4. I bought the phone thinking SharePoint intergration would be great, authemtication is not supported so it's useless.
..... you get the picture of the features that are half implemented.
So, here it is, I buy a smart phone to at least connect to the internet and check my work emails, I couldn't for the longest time connect to many WiFi's and my company stopped supporting WP7 because it does not support some security features they require.
I can go on about the things this "smart phone" didn't allow me to do, and I"m not talking about little stupid things like customization, I'm talking about the core of what a smart phone should do. And all I heard from Microsoft is "hang in there, the update is coming".
Wishes for all the best with the mango's and banana's you can get, whenever you can get them. I switched back to my WM6.1 Treo Pro until I find another platform because I attacked the apples alot and it's difficult for me to declare defeat after being a windows mobile user for a long time. I think I'll buy another fruit, may be the berry.
"but we're not resting until it's done" BS! You and everyone else took a nice 3 day weekend just recently didn't you??? All we hear are excuses. You and your coworkers would be out of a job anywhere else for allowing this to happen. We wouldn't be having this conversation if WIndows Phones were selling at the pace of Iphone and Android because then you would have a significant number of customers crawling up every orifice of your body. Because we Focus owners are such a small poplulation you feel you can just take as long as you want to fix an issue that should never have happened. Then you insult us further by making these ridiculous posts about not resting until it's done. I call BS and you can't deny anything of it.
+1 for a "thank you for waiting" present for all of us still waiting on an update.
Waiting this long for 7392 on my Samsung Focus -- a minor security update that just revokes a few certificates -- is a cruei joke.
Personally, I think the delays and problems have gone on to such an extent that I think it wouldn't be a bad idea for Microsoft to give early adopter customers a free application or game as part of the apology for this saga.
Question. Do unlocked phones get updates first or is it dependent on which carrier you use service for. I ask cause I had a customer with an unlocked focus switching from ATT to Wal-Mart family mobile (which operates off t-mobiles towers). When mango rolls will she get an OTA notification even thou WFM doesn't carry any WP7 devices of its own, or will she only get notified when she syncs her phone?
@WalazNJ and Scubadog2011,its not about telling people how it is or how bad it is,it's all about telling people what the phone can do and what it can't and also how the platform is managed,then let people decide for themselves whether its a great platform or it sucks
Does that mean that the updates are going to be released for all Telefonica phones? They said last week that we could expect the Optimus 7 update in a week but they didn't seem to know when they would release the Omnia 7 or HD7 updates.
@MalazNJ, sorry you had such a dismal experience. However, just to let you know, I'll be telling how great WP7 is to 10 people for every 1 person you whine to about it. So there. =P
Oh, and you can bet anything I'll be buying another phone this "fall", less than a year from me buying the WP7, and it will NOT be a Windows Phone. I've been a windows mobile/phone user for many many years and microsoft did a great job this time pushing me over to the bad side of another platform. At least I'll be able to sync with outlook using this "other" platform and I'll be able to have skype, which is now a microsoft company, on that "other" phone.
As I promised and continue to promise (Microsoft, I do keep my promises), I will keep telling people about my bad experience with WP7 and what microsoft promised everyone and did not deliver. I will ont stop for at least "few years", I will do my best to turn at least few customers away from WP7. I promised this to Microsoft and I will continue to visit social media, my local AT&T store and will continue to tell friends who are thinking about buying a new phone.
Talk to you in few months when Microsoft is still telling customers great news about how the delivery of the 7392 update is ALMOST complete for everyone.
I'm just curious if anyone here knows what's taking AT&T so long with the 7392 update....well, all updates through them, while we're at it...Curious as to why one the original and premiere partners here in the States is not partnering very well...makes me wish I had waited til my contract was up, by then I couldve switched to Sprint or Verizon.
justin071894, I'm in the US and there is NO open market WP7 phone in the US. Besides, I purchased the Treo Pro unbranded without a contract (WM6.1) directly from Palm, WM6.5 came out and I didn't get any update from Microsoft. When I asked, they said talk to the manufacturer (or Palm) and Palm said they no longer supported the phone. So, as far as I'm concerned, Microsoft always hid behind someone, be it the manufacturer or the operator.
I trusted microsoft this time when they said "Microsoft will have a much more control over the update process", and as far as I'm concerned, for a customer like me where I keep a phone for ~1.5years, I'll own a phone and throw it out without much of an update any way, so, for a customer like me there is not much of a difference in the process. Microsoft has ONLY control over the deliver process ONLY ONLY, they still hide behind manufacturers and carriers, especially in the US where microsoft is not even offering a carrier-free/unbranded phone.
Where are the "series of significant updates" that Microsoft promised back in Nov 2010?? Microsoft said carriers will have the ability to block only ONE update, how come this Telefonica company was able to effectlvely block (they are calling it delay for testing) both the pre-NoDo and the NoDo updates and only deliver those with the 7392 update? Are we playing with words here? Telefonica customers were DENIED two updates for months, and those customers were promised by Microsoft that their carrier will only be able to block one update.
Call it what it is, carriers can delay/block/not allow/not deliver updates for many many months, combine that with Microsoft releasing one significant update a year, it'll mean if anyone ever decides to buy a WP7 device, that person must be willing to live without any updates until they buy another phone, JUST LIKE ANDROID PHONES, may be a little better than android phones in that aspect, and I emphasize the word little. Again, for someone like me who buys a phone every 1.5years, this is not better than android at all.
I have a Samsung focus, and If I'm waiting this long for 7392, I hate to think how long it will take me to get Mango when its released. Come on Microsoft, if Apple can get it right you should be able to also!
It sure is great having an unbranded phone.
@DatabaseJase: I think Eric was just speaking casually. I'll make sure Orange folks know when it happens.
Agree with Bionicscott, thanks for an update, do not underestimate how much humans hate being kept in the dark
Thank you for the update and the reassurance that the focus issue is being resolved. Please try to communicate more on these types of things in the future.
Who wants to bet that all iPhone 3Gs and 4 users on all carriers will get iOS5 update before I even get the 7392 security update? :-)
I didn't want to say the Mango update because that will be a very easy bet, no doubt in my mind we'll get iOS5 and may be another update after that before we see Mango on all handsets.
Microsoft, you no longer can blame carriers, you've been having one problem after the other with updates since January!
I can buy an iPhone 4 now and I know I will get the iOS5 update the minute it's available, in the fall as promised, unlike WP7 where whoever buys the phone now will get stuck without an update until next year! Without Microsoft assuring us this update process is getting better, how can anyone trust Microsoft enough to buy a WP7?!). From what I'm seeing, the process by no means is getting better, people just lowered their expectations considerably and there is absolutely no trust, at least from me, for any promise I get from Microsoft. So, fall for Mango means absolutely NOTHING to me, and many more.
I know what MIcrosoft's answer is, I've heard it several times since January: "Hang in there folks, it's coming soon".
Another comment on this: "Mike will pop on the thread the moment we start scheduling."
Really? You think a comment somewhere on this post is enough? Come on it needs a whole new post with the attention this deserves.
You seriously need to update your website: www.microsoft.com/.../update-schedule-world.aspx
Orange Group - Delivering update
It's one thing to keep delaying this but worse that you are providing poor information to people that might not be reading this blog. Come on guys, I keep on at you because I love Windows Phone but I'm also always going to tell you when you need to do better.
@Eric and Mike
What about Update Status App for WP7 thats managed by Microsoft and the Network Provider
So we can see the progress right from our phone
Eric, Michael and Brian,
As an overseas Samsung Focus owner who has not been too worried by delays into the 7392 security update (it will come soon enough), I am really hoping that MS and Samsung work through the issues with their handsets and OS updates.
Considering the Focus is the No. 1 US based handset for WP (see PCMAG survey you promoted on the blog recently) - are you able to give it's many owners any confidence that this issues experienced to date are NOT going to hamper the FALL roll out plans for Mango?
Surely the learning's you have gained over the NoDo and 7392 issues experienced with Samsung phones will mean a greater likelihood of Mango getting out right 1st time?
With the relatively small number of actual improvements in NoDo vs what is coming in Mango - I don't even wan't to think what it might look like if past issues/mistakes get repeated b/w Carriers, Hardware, Firmware and OS...
Here's hoping :)
OMG Telefonica FINALLY Scheduling Updates......
That Company Needs A Good Kick For Taking This Long!