Updates: Scheduling 7392 for HTC Surround

Updates: Scheduling 7392 for HTC Surround

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Hi everyone—Eric’s away this week, so I’m filling in. Here’s the latest on updates from the team:

First, we’re now scheduling the 7392 update for the HTC Surround on AT&T. Other models will follow.

We’ve also made progress on getting the remaining Samsung Focus models updated. We’ve worked through the last of the technical hurdles with AT&T and Samsung, and are now actively scheduling the final set of tests and the subsequent roll out of updates to Focus handsets with the alternate memory. I don’t have hard dates yet.

Finally, we’re still working with Orange to resume update deliveries to Omnia 7 phones. I know some of you are frustrated—and I’m sorry about the delay. The team truly thought they were close last week—and are working to close on a schedule.

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  • Uh Where is it its been 10 days!

  • Has anyone experienced any issues with the blocdeals app? I have been developing the mobile app and want to know if the 7392 is having any issues. It is blocdeals dott com / mybloc - the local savings app that we hope hits super viral. Thank you for your comments.

    Best,

    TJS MyBloc - Naples FL

  • drankurn
    42 Posts

    I am not really technical in this area, but a simple question about the problem with the Focus - it looks like Samsung did not have any problem at the time of manufacturing the device with the alternate memory, they could install the whole operating system without much problem, but now they are all having this great difficulty with this seemingly small update because of the alternate memory. I just can't understand this issue with my common sense ( not real technical know how).

    Would appreciate anyone explanation , if there really is one, which i highly doubt.

  • FuchiStar
    18 Posts

    The issue with the rev1.4 Focus is almost certainly due to *defective hardware*.

    A different version of the memory chip or even a different chip manufacturer, would merely have introduced different timings or sequences, etc during flashing and it would not have taken this long to modify the update to take this into account.

    There is a bug in the actual hardware and Microsoft/Samsung are trying desperatly to find a work-around. It is quite possible that they won't be able to.

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    Last thing first...@snbrdsummit, I'm pretty I saw in one of the demos for Mango that search in Contacts will be added.  Someone correct me if I'm remembering incorrectly.  

    Now, @Hawk, I don't understand why you are perplexed.  Why would we not the latest features or security on our devices?  It shouldn't be a mystery why users would want the updates. Your contention is based in fear...fear of degradation of your device.  But what you aren't getting, I believe, is that the expecation many of us had was that Microsoft already had the update process down when we first bought these devices.  The way they talked, it sounded like the intention and methodology behind it was all well and good and that we could expect a pretty happy future with WP7.  Unfortunately, what we've found is that the reality is much different from the intention.  I have no doubt that Microsoft is trying to keep the "experience" at the level they wanted.  However, what's missing is that there are all these delays for quite a variety of reasons, but we aren't being told enough about why and what's going on.  Microsoft has spent a fair amount of effort telling us they're "working hard" and "won't rest" but we're not seeing any real evidence of that work....it's all happening in the dark, as far as customers are concerned.  I'd be willing to bet that the Microsoft leadership is demanding and getting more information as far as status as the efforts are underway.  Customers are looking for something similar.  In absence of that, you can expect to see the frequency and decibel level of customer complaints continue to grow.  FUD creates anger and distrust.

  • There's a feature for previous WP OS's that I'm missing in WinPhone 7.  It's the ability to search my contact list for strings of characters.  Often times, I can't remember a person's name and I need to look something up by a business name or address.  For someone in my line of business who has over 2000 contacts, this is most necessary.  WinPhone 7 doesn't allow me to do that.  WinPhone 6.x did.  Can Bing be integrated to give a more robust search in my contact list?

    I've been looking for news which may lead to future developments implementing this idea, though don't see any.  Am I missing something?

  • Hawk
    61 Posts

    I'm new to the WP7 world and glad I found this Blog.  

    I bought a Samsung Focus on 6/1.  I knew the "NoDo" update was available but didn't know there were two models of the same phone, rev1.3 and rev1.4!!  After talking with both AT&T and Samsung, I finally found out why the updates were on hold.  

    Given the fact that the rev1.4 phone has different hardware than the rev1.3, I'm okay waiting for MS and Samsung to finish their testing in order to qualify all known updates since 7004 for this model.  What I'm puzzled by is the amount of people demanding these updates.  

    What would you people rather have?  An update that destroys the performance of your phone or a phone that works great and will continue to work great when the updates eventually become available???

    I've learned something about smartphones, I found it best to play the wait and see game.  I learned this the hard way.  I had an iPhone3G, iOS4 came out, Apple said it was supported for the iPhone3G, I immediately upgraded and guess what, the new OS killed that phone.  

    Even when Mango is available and hopefully it'll support the Samsung Focus rev1.4, I will play the wait and see game.  My phone works great right now and I want it to stay that way for the next 2 years!

  • KR
    503 Posts

    @scubadog2011,thanks for the info,i really need to start checking on the XDA dev site

  • when will the trophy get 7392 build?

  • @Danc, I'm assuming you're just now joining the fray and haven't been following the various other threads here that have been beating this particular horse.  I've seen a few people oversimplify the situation in a similar fashion, but let me see if I can help couch this situation in a better way.  Let's say you have a file in an SD card that you need to load into your desktop computer.  It's just a simple file, maybe even a registry entry.  Now, imagine if you stick the card into a slot in your desktop and it can't quite read the file...maybe it gives you the directory of files but when you try to actually copy it, you just get all sorts of errors.  Or, how about a situation where you need to flash your BIOS to support a new CPU, but you can't get the ROM to process, even though it's only updating one small piece of the BIOS.  For instance, I've had a couple of computers that I wanted to upgrade memory on and, as it turned out, although the memory was considered "standard" I ended up having to update the motherboard BIOS in order to work correctly with memory.

    We've tried to get more details on what exactly is wrong with all these devices that causes the delays, so a lot of what comes out is speculation.  In the case of the SSL update, it's not so much the update itself that's a big deal---it's the process & mechanism for APPLYING the update.  Remember, Microsoft said that updates are generally cumulative---but not completely.  In other words, what is supposed to happen is that the update process should detect which device you have and what update you're on, then it would apply the appropriate changes (which might be serial updates or a single consolidated version).  This is the horrible challenge when you allow fragmentation.  And this is exactly what Apple avoided by having a single device, no variation exception storage size.  That's why THEIR process is so much smoother.  So, we give up that ease in favor of have some degree of hardware differentiation.

  • @Kenny Rawlins, I believe I read in a number of places that it costs $100 to "get into the system" and get unlocked.  If you haven't been visiting the XDA Developers site, I highly encourage you to do so.  That's where most of the WP7 (and other platforms) developers network & alpha/beta test stuff.  I'm sure you could get someone to talk you through.

  • Web63
    19 Posts

    I’m beginning to think that this is typical of Orange, I also have a Galaxy S with them that my son uses and there were similar delays getting the Android 2.2 (Froyo) update – again everybody else on other networks had theirs weeks before Orange users, in the end I de-branded the phone and received the update immediately and have received all further updates promptly. I’d assumed that this was just a ‘one off’ and maybe just restricted to the Android OS, consequently I ordered an Omnia 7 from them and lo and behold the same thing is happening here with WP7 updates! What is it with orange branded phones that cause this I wonder?

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    @letsrockit - I was told the same thing by Orange in that they do not class upgrades as any of their business and will not replace any handsets that have difficulty updating.

    I feel a switch of network provider is on the cards when my contract expires. I've been with Orange for over 10 years and feel a bit cheated by their attitude.

  • @D-Burrs, thanks for the feedback. I finally figured out that yes I do have rev 1.4 by removing the battery. Found the Windows Phone Support tool and tried running it but it still retruns the same info when zune checks for updates.

    Yes I am still trying to catch up but I am happy with a number of features that I didn't have on the IPhone.

    Since it seems like this phone is not ready to roll into the update cycle. I can live with that. In rereading Michaels post above, I see that I had misread and thought that M-Soft was in the clean up process of getting the "difficult one ups" recognized and was hoping to aid that process. I see it was my bad in that they actually are in the final rounds of QA. Thanks again for setting me straight.

  • Hi, I just wanted to know whether there was a problem with Orange Samsung Omnia 7 handsets or whether or not they're classified as faulty? I've rang Orange on more then once occasion, & they keep saying ''were testing the update''. After which I constantly refer to your, ''where is my update'' site which states that Testing has been completed with Orange Group. They also claim, that the handets supplied are not faulty unless you can't make a call or text? I'm pretty sure not getting an update would also be classed as being faulty?

    I'd also like to know, why the windows phone team are constanly failing to answet questions, as to why there's been such a delay. By not giving us answer, your losing one of your biggest markets in the UK.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    So I am to presume everything other than the Focus (meaning the Quantum) will be forthcoming after the HTC Surround? Because I haven't seen or heard anything.

    AT&T and Best Buy are still selling phones using 7004. I have a former coworker who just picked up a Quantum over the last weekend and it's 7004 and not finding ANY updates. Meanwhile, no word about the 7392 SECURITY update (emphasis on security) from your premier partner, and Samsung Focus updating has been completely halted.

    Really, you guys suck at this. Almost as bad as Android. And your platform is becoming as fragmented as Android in a much shorter period of time. All because you feel you have to let the carriers push you around.

  • danc
    2 Posts

    I am a little confused. I thought this latest update was only to urgently fix/update some compromised certificates. Why does this need months worth of testing and what does the type of memory on a device have anything to do with updating some database on the phone? Is this going to be a problem with every single update? For example, will the Mango update be held up for Focus users because of this issue or is this strictly a learning lesson to put in some tweaks in the installer that will apply for future installs so they won't need this hold?

  • @tchnorton +1 on hammering Orange if anyone has details! Not that it will make much difference unless we find someone who actually knows what WP7 is!

  • Orange makes At&t look like a swift-moving, agile company.

  • What is the WP7 build story on the HTC Trophy? I picked one up last week and it shows OS build 7389. Does that mean it will be getting the 7392 security update at some point?

  • tchnorton
    10 Posts

    Fellow Orange Omnia users, have you found any way of communicating about this issue with Orange? We keep hammering MS but it's looking suspiciously like the problem lies with Orange.  I think they need to be aware how unsatisfied their customers are. There must be an Orange WP7 brand manager.  Their contact details would be useful.

  • D-Burrs
    15 Posts

    @KenClogger, first, welcome to the community;)  

    Next, having purchased your Focus 10 days ago, I'm sure you haven't had a ton of time to dig into the interwebs to get a line on things, in particular, updates.  To catch you up, this is the official forum for you to get answers on update status, and Michael Stroh and Eric Hautala are the two guys leading the charge on the MS side to make sure weekly communications are issued to that end.  The vast majority of Samsung Focus phones in the wild began the update process without a hitch, until technical problems forced MS to halt the process at the security update.  

    Given the recency of your purchase, however, I would venture a guess to say that you're in the camp of the minority of Samsung Focus owners, who are the proud holders of the "Focus handsets with the alternate memory" Michael identifies in his post above.  To verify, remove your battery, and read underneath to see if your phone is identified as memory version REV 1.3, or memory version REV 1.4.  If, as I suspect, you're REV 1.4, you are in a holding pattern pending the "final set of tests and the subsequent roll out of updates to Focus handsets with the alternate memory" which means:  check back here weekly to see where things are.

    @ Michael - thanks for the most informative post on this topic since the problems began.

  • KR
    503 Posts

    @Michael Stroh,

    I wish to "developer unlock" my Bell HD7,but i want to do it through a legitimate way authorized by microsoft and also how much it will cost me.BTW my phone is up to date 7392 and i am not an app developer,

  • zb1845
    1 Posts

    It's getting pretty silly now. I'm also an Orange Omnia 7 user and I've been checking this blog almost daily in the hope of getting some info on when I'm actually going to get NoDo. Last week I got excited because it seemed that it was very close. Now this week I find out it's not any closer than last week, which has been the same story throughout the month I've had this phone.

    It's my own fault really, i shouldn't have stuck with Orange. I used to have a Nokia 5800 and it would take months for Orange to release the updates compared to all the other carriers.

    Apart from this update farce I've been very happy with my phone, I just want the basic functionality that you get with other phones that I thought I would be getting sooner rather than later.

    If Microsoft want to keep the early adopters of this platform they better make sure that mango goes out to phones a lot better than this.

  • @ciarang109  You are also meant to disable Wireless & Data Connection on your phone prior to attempting this, however  I've never managed to get this working :(

    Guess I'll just wait for the official update, but I would really like to know what is so special about Orange Omnia 7's that's causing this delay.  After all its months after the release of these updates, not weeks.

  • There ia a trick to get nodo and every other update without debranding or anything. If you plug in your phone and open zune, search for an update and after about 2-3 secsonds while searching turn off your wifi card and it should come up update available. Then turn wifi back on and click update phone. Dont know how it worked but it worked for me twice on an 02 branded HD7 and an H3G omnia 7 a few months back before the carriers started rolling out.

  • Michael,

    Bought my Samsung Focus June 5th. When I go into settings -> update phone (both in Zune and on the phone) it is still reporting phone is up to date, current phone software version 7.0(7004). From what I have read I am releases behind. AT&T support rep didn't know what to do, suggested I call Samsung. Are all Samsung updates on hold? Is Samsung support the right area to contact? Given that a lot of the WP7 phones are practically being given away (I picked mine up for a buck with a $49 Xbox card at Best Buy) this is a pivot point that can be a critical user acceptance thing.

    On the other hand updates are the only thing that I have had a better user experience than on my old iPhone.  I have only had the phone for 10 days. I was able to give a decent demo to a coworker showing pinned tiles, office connection to live drive, access to my documents on WHS using WHS Phone, Facebook connectivity, quick access to pictures of my grandson, voice command searches and Bluetooth call initiation.....well you get the picture. All of this during a 10 minute break during a business meeting.

    Sorry if this is the wrong forum to bring it up in but have a busy schedule and trying to determine where is the best place to attack this issue next time I can allocate some time to being on hold and dealing with 1st level support who is not as familiar with the various updates available as I am from my web research.

    Thanks for any direction you can provide. I am sure there are others who are seeking answers to why their phone isn't updating yet either.

  • baron164
    16 Posts

    Thanks for the update, I just had to have my Samsung Focus replaced and I originally had the 1.3 Rev and the new one is 1.4 and I was very upset to find that I could not update my phone with Copy and Paste.

  • Web63
    19 Posts

    @FreelanceX  What is the procdeure for removing the branding key?

  • @comeradealex im still stuck on 7008 too, Orange UK Omnia 7.  I'm seriously thinking of unbranding as there is obviously no problem from a technical point of view, carriers need to keep out of it and let MS and the hardware partners get these things pushed out or MS will never have an update process as streamlined as Apple!

  • At least some Orange Omnia 7's have got NoDo! I'm stuck on 7008 here :( Thanks for the update, just please get it released! It'd be nice to know what the actualy problems are for the Orange Omnia 7's too!

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    @cM xB - I have the same bootloader and was able to get mine into download mode using a resistor jig and apply the Samsung patch.

    If this farce continues I will just unbrand my phone / flash unbranded firmware and be done with it.

  • @FreelanceX So if there is no technical problem it's most likely some other problem with one of those three as nobody else is involved with the rollout.

  • I have an Orange Samsung Omnia 7 ((UK) without download mode enabled) and I have been on 7392 for ages now. Recieved the update through Zune a week after the update was released.

    All you need to do is remove the Orange UK Branding key from the registry (Chevron7)  and it behaves like a non-branded phone.

    SO as far I can see, there is not a fault with Orange, Samsung, or Microsoft.

  • Oops posted wrong link above, my bad :)

  • Typical of Orange, they have obviously branded the phone in such a way that its conflicting with the update process, but if you ring Orange they haven't a clue what you are talking about.

    Maybe its the an issue with the software/update unable to access the firmware, after all my Orange Omnia7 (OS 7008 Bootloader 4.10.1.9) wont go into download mode, it wont even allow the Samsung Firmware update tool to access my phone as per this article > support.microsoft.com/.../2547687

    So the blame is thoroughly with Orange imo.

  • I just don't understand how you can think you are close then discover you are not close at all. I am in software development and this has never once happened to me yet it has happened several times so far with the Omnia 7 update. Getting peoples hopes up and then crushing them is not the way forward

  • Thanks for the updates, the more of these you can do the better!

    I'm interested as to what Orange are actually doing to stop the update rollout? "we’re still working with Orange to resume update deliveries to Omnia 7 phones."

    It was my understanding all Orange testing was complete, the Omnia issue was resolved and it was just a case of waiting due to staggered rollout schedule from Microsoft?

    Some more confirmation on this would be really appreciated & maybe a timeframe for resolution?

    Jon

  • Freypal
    59 Posts

    Well I guess that means we are at the very least several weeks away if not months for Orange. So they are no longer close and has no schedule....

    If it's this much hard work getting through some security certificates we have no hope for Mango now do we.

  • Is there something in the hardware of the Orange Ominas that makes them different or has it to do with how the handsets behave on Orange's network. Seems curious why the phones by one provider would make problems if they were the same as all the others.

  • Sheeds
    205 Posts

    That's what I thought also - it's just the phrasing above in Michael's post of "remaining" and "handsets with the alternate memory" threw me into thinking the V1.3 units might have been OK to receive 7392....

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    It's good to hear some encouraging news.  I'm dying to know what the "technical hurdles" were.

  • @Strider_Auz

    The update for all the Samsung Focus has been halted.

  • Sheeds
    205 Posts

    Sorry typo above - should read:

    "ALL Focus handsets on AT&T had the 7392 update push turned off, irrespective of V1.3 or 1.4 hardware."

  • Sheeds
    205 Posts

    Michael,

    Thanks for the update.  No disrespect to Eric, but you often tend to be the only one replying to posts about these updates, so makes sense you put them out I guess ;)

    Are you able to clarify something on the Focus.  I was under the impression ALL Focus handsets on AT&T had the 7392 update push turned off, irrespective of V1.4 or 1.4 hardware.  Is this wrong ?  Should the V1.3 handsets be actively receiving the security certificate update?

    The reason for asking, is I have a phone formerly known as a "Walshied" handset (lol) and ran the fix Chris created and MS approved.  Either this didn't work properly - or ALL Focus 7392 updates have been halted, as I have never received the update and own a V1.3 hardware Focus.

    Cheers,

    Sheeds.