First take reviews of the Mango release

First take reviews of the Mango release

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This week, first take reviews from around the Web started pouring in on the Windows Phone Mango update. A small group of people got a chance to test drive Mango on a Samsung Focus. Granted this was still a pre-release version of the operating system, so there is still some work to do, but by the looks of the reviews, people are pleased!

Here is a snapshot:

Matt Miller of ZDNet:

“Another slick communications feature I have been enjoying is Threads. Microsoft now combines text messaging, Windows Live Messenger, and Facebook chat all in the Messaging application so you can stay in touch with people seamlessly through different communications services without ever having to leave the Messaging application. It is cool how you can start chatting with someone via text messaging via your text messaging plan and then move to Facebook chat through a data connection, and then even into Live Messenger in such a seamless manner. You can see if a contact is online or offline (on Facebook chat and Live Messenger) and then switch to text messaging for communications if they are offline.”

Daniel Rubino of WPCentral:

“What makes "Mango" so interesting is nothing feels tacked on. It's not like Microsoft saw what the competition was doing and decided "we can do that too!", resulting in an OS that has features haphazardly slapped together, but nothing to unify them. The changes in Windows Phone 7.5, on the other hand, feel like an extension of a vision, of a philosophy of how our mobile phones should work.”

Matt Buchanan of Gizmodo:

“It feels alive. Everything bounces. Everything swoops. Everything flips. Every single action is lushly animated. It just doesn't sweat the details—blood was spilled. The lock screen isn't a simple shade. It has a sense of weight and gravity; the further up you drag it before you let go, the faster it slams back down (if you don't completely unlock it). It's almost like the phone is happy to be alive. Which kind of makes you feel happy to use it. No other phone is like that.”

Katherine Boehret of The Wall Street Journal:

“The operating system is a mix of elegance and whimsy that's a treat to use. Mango is sprinkled with delightful animations on nearly every screen. These include icons that swing out like tiny doors when selected, and little dots that race across the top of the screen when something is loading onto the phone. The result is a playful yet functional interface.”

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  • You guys seriously don't have a clue about bugfixing. Sometimes, finding the exact working of a bug, and finding out how to apply a fix for it can take months till years. See the DE bug on windows home server 1. See the firmware bug on Intel SSD Gen 2, both delayed for half a year/nearly a year.

    So your samsung did not get the update yet because of some bug caused by samsung (not microsoft)? And you're angry? Understandable. Bitching around calling everyone liar and you got cheated? not fair, and not right.

    They are at this point still not sure if they found a way to apply a fix in the update process to make it work. They did have found one for my omnia 7, but it required a hardware dongle to do a firmware update first (again, samsungs fault).

    yes, it's a long time, but that doesn't change the promise. the update WOULD work on the phone. the problem is, how to actually get it to update. NoDo and Mango both run without a problem, but actually overwritting your current os, doing the actual update, that can be quite a problem depending on firmware, and hardware (nand).

    so feel cheated and spam around on all the blogs if you want, and feel like you've done something about it. but you haven't. you just made a product look bad for the fault of someone else. Blame samsung, finally. Not microsoft.

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    @fuchi - there is an update every week - I dunno how often you think they should continue to update - either way the update today states its in final testing for a resolution so it seems they have found a fix provided the final testing passes

  • FuchiStar
    18 Posts

    Scuba says "Just because we've been told there's a NAND issue doesn't mean that's the entirety of the problem, so imagining some simplistic solution is useless."

    If that is not the "entire problem" then MS is holding out on us and that is a different but equally upsetting issue.

    Another problem is that updates on this issue are few and far between.

  • @ ScubaDog2011 - Neither do you, dude!!! Do you think you are the only one who knows what's going on in there? You are so full of crap and I am just fed up with your narcissisms.  Let people say or speculate about whatever they want... Fan boy!!

  • By the way, I just got a tweet from Joe Belfiore that the Mango release for developers is going out today.  Check out the Developer site.  I admit I'm skeptical at the forecast on some sites that the release for the rest of us will flow in September, the fact that they're kicking the beta out to developers now is encouraging.  At the very least, I expect to start hearing some great news about the explosion of apps that will be generated.  By the time we get Mango I'll bet there will already be a healthy variety of wonderful apps.  Also, the rumors about Tango would lead me to guess that Microsoft might be making a play to get Mango out sooner rather than later by slipping any not-ready-for-prime-time changes/updates to Tango.  Given how huge Mango is, I'm cool with that.  Of course, I won't be suprised if the same people who said they would have rather WP7 NOT been released last November with so many features missing would also tell them not to release Mango until every pet feature was incorporated.  I'm pulling for September, nonetheless.  Hopefully all the update issues will be resolved, with the OEMs not doing ANYTHING to the devices, carriers not doing ANYTHING to the devices, and all rollouts going virutally simultaneously in all regions.  That's the dream, anyway.

  • So, basically, some of you are casting all sorts of accusations and assumptions because you're frustrated.  While completely understandable, it doesn't validate the kind of accusations about Microsoft's motives or plans.  In some cases, the accusations made boil down to calling the folks from Microsoft liars.  Just because you have some specific experience in related fields doesn't mean you have clue one about what the actual issues here are, or what Microsoft is doing, much less any monkey wrenches that carriers or OEMs might be throwing into the mix.  Oh, sure, you folks MIGHT be right---lack of any other information means that possibility exists.  But logic and their track record tend to favor a more sane set of assumptions.  Just because we've been told there's a NAND issue doesn't mean that's the entirety of the problem, so imagining some simplistic solution is useless.  This whole situation is a mess, there's no doubt.  There's lack of equity across regions, the update process is riddled with issues, OEMs aren't playing by the rules, carriers are walking all over things, and I'm sure that the techs at Microsoft are stuck in the big middle of this goat rope.  I wouldn't be surprise if their confidence is a bit shot.  On top of that, they are trying to incorporate a number of features that, admittedly, should have been there at the start, not to mention the plethura of suggestions (in many cases, downright nasty DEMANDS) of what else to add.  So, what exactly is so simple about any of this?  In the face of all these problems--some of which weren't anticipated, some of which SHOULD have been anticipated--I think the biggest failing was communication.  While some progress has been made on that front, I suspect that most of you would dial down the rhetoric a bit if much more open--and earlier--communication had ruled the day.  It's your right to speculate....I certainly do that, too.  It's your right to complain....I do that, as well.  But some of it is just ridiculous and overboard.

  • Also because MS is making bank off of Android patents they may actually want WP7 to fail as long as when it does people buy android.  That way they get double the $$$$$.

  • jburch
    45 Posts

    @FuchiStar Thank you for your post.  Even though I am not a hardware or software engineer, I agree that that it should not take a development team 4+months to get their hands on a 1.4 phone and see if it can run their most updated operating system or not.

  • @FuchiStar  Exactly!  C isn't about money it is about delay,delay,delay until the problem goes away and then they will pat themselves on the back and say good job the problem has been resolved!  I really like the platform but if I can't get any updates for my phone in 4+ months then this isn't the platform for me.  When I purchased my phone I was told that MS would be providing updates.  They have not.  This is the reason I ditched my Android phone is that it would never get updates because it negatively effects the carriers bottom line.  As long as MS panders to the carriers and gives them control of the update process there really isn't much hope for WP7.  Apparently the  only phone OS that gets updates is IOS.

  • FuchiStar
    18 Posts


    Actually, I have been a Software Engineer (in Unix and Windows) since the 80s. My father is a retired Hardware Engineer who has worked at Honeywell and with the US Government since the late 60s. Between us, we know a few things...

    Answer (c) has nothing to do with money. It has to do with delaying until no one has a Focus anymore and the problem "goes away".

    The official MS line is that it is a different NAND and, if that is true, that is not a 4+ month engineering hurdle.

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    Windows Mobile was a disaster the only thing it had going for it is you could modify it like crazy such as Android (not sure why you bothered with Windows Phone when it was made clear that it would be nothing like windows mobile)

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    Unfinished?  I don't know about you but I buy a product on what it does, not what the competitor before it did - nor do I buy a product on what I wish it had - all these features that are coming are addons to what I wanted from my phone. Did you do any research before buying it because there was more then enough detail on it, also you can try the phone out and if you are not satisfied it can be returned for something else

  • Nater
    147 Posts

    The longer I keep this HD7, the more I wished they'd have continued Windows Mobile.  I have barely used it because it's missing so much functionality that I'd have to use my Andorid device 75% of the time anyways.  By the time Mango rolls around I won't even give a damn.  Microsoft has conditioned me to reach for an Andorid device so stronly by releasing such an unfinished product that I probably won't find out Mango was released until a week or longer after the update is available...

  • Mango looks great, but there are questions I still have about features that seem really small but do make a difference:

    *birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays shown on the calendar, currently not present, very easily implemented

    *camera 'scenes' similar to Canon cameras, for aquarium, indoor, outdoor, foliage, snow, etc. to automatically apply the right settings for any occasion

    *put the play button in the Zune hub back next to music.  It seriously looks better there, and makes more sense visually.  If the button is next to music, I know that if I press it, it will play music.  What will happen if I press a button at the bottom of the screen?  Will it play podcasts, TV Shows, movies, and music, or what?

    *Zune marketplace search results should be organized into pivots for artist, album, song, and playlist instead of a jumbled list.

    *Zune Social should be fully integrated across the OS.  In Zune, if I play a song, I should have a button at the bottom to send it to a friend or post that song to FB with a link to the Zune marketplace, like I can currently do in Facebook on Zune HD.  Integrate Zune Cards into People cards to show contacts' music history on Zune, and send music back and forth to friends.  This would make the phone much more social and personal.  You could even possibly add the ability to view which of your friends 'like' an artist within Zune on a new 'social' pivot for the artist cards.  

    *In the Phone app, have pivots for incoming, outgoing, and missed calls, and add visual voicemail, similar to Google voice, showing who left voicemail, the length of message, when they left it, and a transcript of the file.

    *add audiobooks into the Zune PC App, and allow any mp3 marked as an audiobook to be so noted on my phone within Zune under 'audiobooks'.

    *add 'related' artists to the Artist Cards in the Zune hub.

    I've written more down here:  - please take a look at this, Windows Phone Team, and try to add a few, if not most of these features!  Windows Phone is the best platform out there, and you need to be fast and nimble with the updates!

  • Well done!

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    @ FuchiStar  D. None of the above...

    Your phone has a year warranty - if it turns out there is no solution- you will be able to return it and get a new one - yes, it sucks that you have to wait for the previous update everyone else has. But spreading misinformation isn't helping anyone else.

    1. As stated above I am guessing you don't work with hardware and software because trying to get something working on nonstandard hardware isn't an easy feat. Samsung went outside the current spec and used unapproved hardware. Think of it this way you install osx on a nonstandard hardware (not apple approved) and it doesn't work so you get it loaded on there using some kind of hack and its working how it should, then its time to release a new update for osx and now your nonstandard device won't update because it wasn't created for it and now you gotta find a new workaround. This is where MS is

    2. See my reply to answer 1

    3. MS makes no money if you buy a new phone or not - they only sell a license, so why would MS do this? The OEM has already bought the license

  • Great, now where's my NoDo update? (hint: Samsung Focus on AT&T)

  • brianm76
    61 Posts

    @FuchiStar If there were an aware for best post on this entire update disaster you win hands down!  LOL!!!

  • gadgetebz
    19 Posts

    @Brian Seitz @Michael Stroh

    A few basic things on My Wish List that the bloggers with the Early Build MANGO have not commented on...

    Can you please ask the Windows Phone team to consider adding more privacy settings especially allowing the TOAST NOTIFICATIONS for SMS and INSTANT MESSAGES to be switched ON/OFF depending on USER requirements as there are some situations where TOAST NOTIFICATIONS that display the content of a MESSAGE can cause embarresment or worse. Both IOS and ANDROID allow switching this off already and I think its an important feature especially when I am in a client meeting etc.

    It would be great to be able to delete History for PEOPLE, PICTURES, MUSIC Hubs etc...  this is useful if someone wants to borrow my device to play a game or check the WEB etc ....I dont really wanting them knowing who I called etc...  Call Logs, Text etc can all be deleted but not PEOPLE history.    I guess with MANGO people might wanna borrow my PHONE quite a bit more for cool features like LOCAL SCOUT.  So would love if this could be implemented.

    SMART DIALING that was present on my HTC WM6.5 device not sure if it a HTC owned feature but it would be great on Windows Phone.

    Please more detailed call logs.... would especially like to know duration of calls not just the time of the call.

    Here is hoping the above make it into the 500 new MANGO features !!


  • FuchiStar
    18 Posts

    Pick the best answer:

    (a) Microsoft is thinking 2 years down the road. They don't care about us - the beta-testers of WP7. They have one guy working on the rev1.4 issue part-time, every other week. All the effort is on Mango Tango Jingle Jangle.

    (b) Microsoft's dev team is unskilled. They are working on it day and night and haven't figured it out in 4+ months.

    (c)The phone cannot be flashed. Delay until everyone buys a new phone.

  • KR
    503 Posts

    BTW can anyone tell me if mango will enable attachment of PDF files to emails??

  • KR
    503 Posts

    "I just use 3MB of my 500MB data every month because of the WP7 features are useless in Canada"

  • KR
    503 Posts


    you´ve made a very good point from the second part of your post regarding the USB/cloud stuff and the data connection and regional limitation of WP7 and i agree with you on that,I just about 3MB of my 500MB data plan because most of the WP7 features are not useless in Canada.the 3MB is due to the fact i use my browser frequently to get files from the cloud,wereas if there was USB direct file transfer i should have dropped my Data plan,since my network provider doesn´t charge me for data usage due to emailing.

    but regarding the visual customization i don´t agree with you,one of the things that makes WP7 so unique and why everyone around me likes about my HD7 is the way it looks and i bet you things like background..eeeww,will kill the metro experience and also the rounded edge tiles.WP is different(I know its hard for many to accept how it is different since its new,but its great )

  • @ScubaDog

    Thanks for your opinions. But these are the very simple features like wallpaper, rounded corner tiles ppl expect in india. These are the features consumers need.

    I don't agree that if WP provides a setting to hide black strip  it will cause any performance issue.

    I can tell you how I use my nokia phone USB feature.

    For Songs/Video/Wallpapers/Photos

    * Connect phone to PC in USB mode

    * Copying Songs/Video/Wallpapers/Photos from harddisk to Phone using Windows Explorer

    * Unplug an play

    No Zune/ No iTunes / No Nokia PC Suite need to be installed. I can use my Phone with any PC provided I have cable.

    Cloud is great! But it is not worth considering data plan cost. Why I should pay for data plan to download from Cloud while I have Mp3 DVD collection?

    When even simpe Bing background tool tips will not work if your country is India. I am curious how WP7.5 mango will help Nokia outside USA when most of the features are USA centric.

    I want Microsoft to think globally. There is no reason why they disable simple features in their product if country is not USA.

  • I am so glad to see a lot of information about the focus 1.4 issue!  Oh wait still no info?  How can I be surprised at this point it has only be 5 months?  MS continues to give us a lot of reason to believe in them don't they?  I see today that the release after Mango will be called Tango!  How much do you want to bet that MS will say to the Focus owners : "Well the Focus will not get Mango but we promise that you will get Tango!"  And then if there are any of us left they will say: "Well we weren't quite ready with Tango for the Focus but you will get Weeble Wobble" or whatever name they give it.  They will continue this until all the 1.4 s have been sent to the phone graveyard and then they will deny there was ever a problem at all.

  • jburch
    45 Posts

    @Scubadog You need to calm down.  I am not calling him a liar.  I said he backpedalled. In another post he said  "Rest assured that v. 1.4 devices are updateable. A fix is in the works. While I don't have word (yet) on timing, owning a 1.4 model shouldn't impact your ability to update to Mango."  I along with a few others didn't feel comfortable with the word "shouldn't"  You can't tell me that at this point that they do not have access to a rev 1.4 phone and can't try to throw Mango on it and then tell us either that it will or will not run it.  

    On that same blog you said "At this point, I'm tending to with the others who believe it's now a case of Microsoft and OEMs figuring out how to tell the 1.4 Focus folks, "Hey, we tried everything we could think of, working with Samsung, etc., and we simply can't get there from here." "

    That post of yours sums up exactly how I feel at this point.  You know why?  They haven't told me definitively that you or I am wrong.  

    If you can't handle the 1.4 people complaining about the lack of information we have received, then quit reading our posts and just stick to the posts about Mango design, or wishlists or whatever else interests you.  This problem is between the 1.4 people and Microsoft.  Don't tell me what I am or am not accusing someone of.  If I thought he was a liar, I would have no problem saying it.

  • barts2108
    65 Posts

    @ScubaDog, ok there you've got a point. I have tried to get hold of a WP7 phone now it is still in English language here in Holland. My telco however did not want to cooperate, so I stick to my Nokia N8 (which I can customize, and which I can change the UI language)

  • @Hawk

    "Could someone at MS please increase the comment column width for Christ's sake!  You need another 3-4 characthers width.  Doesn't anyone else find this annoying as all get out??? "

    Glad someone else finds that annoying lol, I thought it was just my browser and phone that were dodgy, now I know others are in the same boat ;)

  • @jburch, how was @Michael Stroh's statement a backpedal?  I re-read it, and it looked awfully confident to me that verion 1.4 devices would be updated.  So, you are just calling him a liar.  Anyone who has actually read all my posts knows I am fairly critical of how Microsoft has handled a lot of this---by this I mean critical in a fair way.  Yes, I'm a fan of the platform because it is VERY different from Windows Mobile, Android and iOS.  I'm all in favor of adding function, but not a fan of adding a lot of superficial "features" that make it in anyway look like its competitors.  But, regardless of what's being updated, the update process is the key to life of the platform, simple as that.  So, they have every reason to fix the issues not only for NOW, for once and for ALL.  They gain nothing by lying about it.  So, I'm suggesting that the WORST you could accuse @Michael Stroh of being is unaware of what the techs working the issue are really doing....and for you to make THAT case you'd have to have inside knowledge.  As I said before, prior to his post, I was also in the camp that suspected Microsoft was just about at the end of their rope with the 1.4 Focus issue and just trying to figure out how to publish the news.  I have no reason to doubt the post, as frustrating as it is.  Remember, this is holding up those of us with the 1.3 Focus, too.

    We can complain all we want.  Most of us will completely disagree on things like where the platform needs to go.  And that's fun fodder for debate.  But I try to be more fair in my criticism (though not always successful) of Microsoft.  I find that Paul Thurrott has a lot of the same points.

  • @Barts2108, it may surprise you, but by including code that allows something to happen you almost always increase the size of the code.  This usually results in worse performance.  Think of it this way -  If I only want to create Word documents why should I purchase the entire Office Professional?  It would be a bunch of code that allows me the choice of doing Outlook, Excel, etc.  At the very least I'll chew up significantly larger amound of disk space.  Most of the WP7 phones only have 8GB of memory.  A few have 16GB and those of us fortunate souls who have a Focus can have up to 40GB.  Quite frankly, if I wanted to muck up my display and eat up more storage & processor on a superficial feature I'd drop my Focus and go with one of the new Android phones.  What I'm saying is that if the UI as it is doesn't suit your craving for customization, then it's maybe not the platform for you.  You may not be their target audience.  I'm not saying WANTING to customize is a bad thing.  I use to do it quite a bit on my WM2k3 device.  I'm just saying I don't think it should be on THIS platform.  I loved my Axim X3i.  But once I got a hold of WP7 I never looked back.

  • @ brianm76 – Well said man! You –and anyone here- have the right to speak your mind and soul about anything that is affecting you.  I can assure you that it’s not only you who is disappointed and unhappy with this WP7 experience –I’d say: about 80% of WP7 customers are dissatisfied with the whole experience.  Don’t let ScubaDog2011 intimidate you with his fancy words of hope.  He, and a few others, still live in MS’ Wonderland.  Cheers!

  • jburch
    45 Posts

    @Scuba I can tell you are a fan of the platform and I'm sure Microsoft appreciates you fighting for them.  Especially since they obviously have no plan of telling the 1.4 owners anything about what is really going on with our phones. I am a fan of the platform as well and I am very much looking forward to Mango.  But along with the other 1.4 owners, at this point I am not convinced that my phone will ever be able to get it and Microsoft is doing absolutely nothing to change that.  Even Michael backpeddled after his first remark and said that it "shouldn't" be a problem.  

    I have read this blog every day waiting for some good news and I have also thought about posting on every blog on here until I get answers.  You call Brian hateful.  I think so far 1.4 owners have been pretty calm about it.

  • Grotta
    5 Posts

    Does anyone have the FULL specs for MANGO. Ie a list of everthung this OS will do.

    There is suppose to be some 500 improvements but I cant seem to find them any where

  • Robert
    4 Posts

    Will the new Mango allow use to add their own ringtones?  This is a feater that is sorely missing in the windowns phone. Also, when will the public get to download this software without going through the same CARRIER song and dance?

  • barts2108
    65 Posts

    @ScubaDog: What's the point of -HAVING- the possibility to set a wallpaper ? if you not like it you DON'T NEED to use it ? What's the point of -HAVING- the possibility to show or hide that black bar with arrow to your liking ? You DON'T NEED to hide it...

    The lack of regional support is bad  -very bad- and I foresee that they will make the same mistake with it as in windows mobile. I ever had a windows mobile phone bought in Holland and you can guess. The UI was in Dutch language -no way- to swtich it to e.g. English. If WP7 ever gets released in other languages, I pray for Microsoft that they will do it in the correct way and they should do it fast !

  • dkb1898
    167 Posts

    @Captiosus - As a Rev 3 Focus owner, I can say I really don't care all that much about the 7392 update. And I've learned to adjust my expectations after the many mis-steps over the first 4-5 months of this platform. That being said, it looks like they are set to promise and deliver on Mango, and actually have the code to show it. Whereas at launch, they promised stuff pre, during, and post launch that never happened...frequent updates on a regular cadence, copy/paste very soon, etc, etc...

    That said if I was a Rev 4 owner and I still didn't have NoDo, I would be flipping out as well. This one is mostly on Samsung, as they changed their hardware and didn't tell anyone, including MS. And frankly, while I love my phone, it will make me think very hard about getting another Samsung. In fact I'm not very impressed with anything HTC has put out their either. It's a shame the LG Optimus 7 isn't here in the states, along with the other Samsung Phone. Microsoft shares some of the blame as well for not putting stricter language in the agreements with these hardware companies. They are wasting a lot of resources covering Samsungs ass on this one, I highly doubt that will do that a second time.

  • Captiosus
    103 Posts

    Still can't be enthused about Mango. Still sitting here waiting for a security update from months ago. Still waiting for features that were discussed as part of the de facto roadmap just before WP7's RTM. 9 months in and I'm still waiting, waiting, waiting so it's hard to be enthused, at all, about more statements about more features that we may or may not see.

    @Scuba - He's a hateful person because he bought a product that appears to be a lemon and is being left behind because it feels like no one can adequately address the issues with the revision? He's just supposed to be happy about it? And he does have a point, a lie by omission is still a lie.

    Regarding one of your earlier posts, I think you underestimate the power of brick-and-mortar stores. They obviously are still a major destination for getting phones. For example, there's a mall up the street from me - Patrick Henry Mall - that literally has three cellphone stores side-by-side: Verizon Wireless store, Best Buy Mobile store, and Radio Shack (you can visit the PHM website and see them on the directory - There was also a Sprint kiosk at the other end of the mall, but I am unsure if it is still there. Across the main street from the mall is a Best Buy, with a large Best Buy Mobile section, a stand alone Verizon Wireless store and a stand alone AT&T store. Every one of these stores are always packed with people browsing or buying.

    Brick and mortar stores are still huge. No one thought the Apple Stores or the Lego Stores would take off as wildly as they did. Microsoft could make a run at it with their Microsoft Stores, but it would probably be far trickier than Apple or Lego.

  • brianm76
    61 Posts

    @Scuba no, I am a person who expects any company I do business with to treat me as they would like to be treated.  The comments on here and numerous others posts clearly indicate MS has not done this.  Telling company that you are angry with their level of service, that you find it unacceptable, and that you want something done about it in addtion to resolving the issue driving the bad experience is not hateful.  It is doing what MS and other companies claim to want to hear....What we think of them and their products.  Tell us who we can improve they ask, tell us what you need from our products, will you tell others to use our products and if not, why, etc. Hateful would be something far worse than me pressing this issue with MS.  We can all be hateful but I can assure you, I have yet to become hateful in my posts.  My comments are of an angry and frustrated customer (and early adopter to an new platform) but hateful they are not.

  • I know this is a broken record, but I wish Windows Phone were doing a better job managing information with the public, retailers, and service providers. I am a new AT&T customer, and before the end of my 14-day trial, I wanted to get confirmation that my Samsung Focus would receive the Mango update. The process has not been pretty.

    The retailer had absolutely no idea what I was talking about.

    AT&T tech support chat kept instructing me to check for new updates using Zune. *facepalm*

    AT&T phone tech support said that if I really wanted to be sure my phone would run Mango, I should get the most current hardware possible. He suggested I return the Focus in favor of a Samsung Infuse. I am not making this up.

    A new customer should not have to pore over Goog--- sorry, Bing search results to find a "Windows Team Blog" to find out the answer to this question.

    I like my Windows Phone. A lot. But I'm 50/50 over whether I'm going to ditch the Focus in the next 24 hours in favor of an HTC Trophy. AT&T is doing everything in their power to remind me why I ditched them the first time several years ago...

  • @brianm76, you're just a hateful person.

  • KR
    503 Posts

    IDK why people keep asking for visual customization of WP7,because i personally like WP the way it is right now(well may be more theme colours wouldn´t be a bad idea to) but things like putting a picture behind the background..eewww,or like making rounded edge tiles is just disgusting and changes the idea behind what WP stands for.i mean its unique nature and feel.When it comes to custom ringtones i think it makes sense to have them though i personally don´t need them anymore after spending 6months with my HD7 and always keeping it on "vibrate only mode" from the first day i bought it.

    @scubadog2011,i agree with you regarding the hardware spec issue,its like having a car which goes 400km/hr,0-100 in 3.2s,etc. in a rural area were the speed limit on all the roads is 40km/hr and on the other hand having a car which goes just 200km/hr in an urban area were the speed limit is about 160km/hr on the highways.

    But regarding the regional issues,i think Microsoft should focus more on making available the current features globally rather than on innovating,not saying they should stop innovating but if slowing down the innovation curve is the opportunity cost of making current features available globally then i think its worth focussing on making available those features globally.reason being if they keep on innovating and not putting max efforts into globalizing,there´ll be a gradient in customer satisfaction between US/UK WPusers and the rest of the world,wereas both groups payed for the same device at at approximately the same price.this will cause customers to turn their backs to WP7 and hence not helping in theestablishment of the ecosystem

  • brianm76
    61 Posts

    @Scuba not giving all the information is the same as lying.  How I present myself and how MS perceives my comments are non of your concern.  The issue here is the lack of updates that were released in Feb / March and here is practically July and my phone still cannot be updated.  Regardless of your opinion on the issue I am not a happy customer and will not be until my phone has the same capabilities as every other Windows Phone out there including the identical Focus with the 1.3 firmware rev. that still has not received the security update from May.  Whether you agree or disagree I will continue to post comments on how this is making me feel letting MS know that this is not okay and how many times I do that is entirely up to me.  My phone gets updated and MS does something to improve the relationship for customers they have dumped on with this isssue maybe I never post again.  Until then...

  • brianm76
    61 Posts

    @Hawk I couldn't agree more.  How is that suposed to instill confidence in their products?  And with the amount of time it has taken to produce and test an update for this oh so special phone that is the last thing I want to hear that my phone "shouldn't" experience any issues with being able to be updated to Mango.

  • Hawk
    61 Posts

    Could someone at MS please increase the comment column width for Christ's sake!  You need another 3-4 characthers width.  Doesn't anyone else find this annoying as all get out???  

    Ok, to all you Focus rev1.4 owners out was very nice of Michael to comment that our devices are updateable but I don't like his last comment..."owning a 1.4 device shouldn't impact your ability to update to Mango".  SHOULDN'T isn't too reasuring Michael.

  • @cmwind, what do you qualify as "MUCH better"?  And, please demonstrate how the better hardware would actually translate into a better user experience.  I listened to Brandon Watson's interview on the WPDev podcast, and, frankly, what he said regarding the hardware made perfect sense to me.  If you're chasing bleeding edge hardware, I think you're looking at the wrong thing and the wrong platform.  WP7 works as well or better on less hardware than Android or iPhone.  It does so because it actually utilizes the hardware the most efficient manner.  I'm trying to imagine what hardware components should be advanced that would result in a noticeable performance improvement.  Some things you will see just by the mere fact that OEMs will have gotten their heads around the new OS.  Higher resolution screens, less power consuming processors, better radios, better cameras, for example.  Brandon Watson was asked, point blank, about dual core processors.  He basically said that if you're a "speeds & feeds" guy, then this isn't the platform for you.  It's about the user experience.  And, frankly, as a geek who use to chase bleeding edge, I don't see the sense in it anymore if the actual experience I have from using the device meets or exceeds my expectations.  Even now, my Focus outperforms my wife's iPhone 4, and is more stable than many of my friends' Android devices.  And it will only get HUGELY better with Mango.  So, I'm curious to hear what you mean by better hardware.

  • @Topper, they will be adding some more "enterprisey" features, but not nearly on the level that WM6x users were happy with.  The SMS, email, facebook, twitter threading will go a long way toward what you're talking about, but I think you'll have to give up ever seeing anyting like ActivSync for WP7.  Folks have just got to get use to the idea that Outlook on their desktop just isn't the center of the communication universe as far as Microsoft is concerned.  Now, having said THAT, I wouldn't be surprised at all if, as part of Windows 8, we begin to see that same threading feature show up there.  Why do I say that?  Because, based on the demos, it really looks like Windows 8 is being developed to be the ubiquitous OS across all hardware platforms: desktop, tablet, phone.  If that's the case, then I think we can expect all the features of WP7 to show up there.

  • techieg
    25 Posts

    Any word on Bing Maps voice-enabled turn-by-turn navigation? MS is not talking about this at all even though it is one of the most important features that everyone needs. Please clarify on this specific feature, what is being done in this area?

  • @brianm76, exactly WHAT issue is it you're referring to that you won't stop complaining about until it's fixed?  The black strip with the arrow?  And why the vitriolic reply?  Speaking for myself, as a Focus owner, I disagree with you.  Until today, I was in the camp that suspected that the reason for the long delay in the Focus updates was completely because of the problems with the 1.4 version and that I believed Microsoft was running out of ideas to fix it....that they were probably trying to figure out a way to get OEMs to do a recall of that version.  BUT, @Michael Stroh just posted that it is updateable, so I'm not going to call him a liar---which is really what YOU are doing.  So, complain all you want.  You're not presenting yourself in a way that makes a person -- or company -- all that anxious to help you.

  • @namesake, it took me a bit, but I've left the "manage files individually" meme in favor of using them by app.  To be quite honest, if I absolutely HAVE to carrey a bunch of disjointed files around (because of some client) it's more convenient (and safer) to have them on a tiny thumb drive.  Thumb drives are no longer allowed in my job, so all my thumb drives are gathering dust right is, believe it or not, my portable hard drive.  I've not had a need to move files individually on my phone.

    - Start page background:  I've played with the homebrew solution you refer to (my Focus is NoDo and unlocked), and I HATED it.  It just muddied up a clean, organized start page.  Ugly.

    - I SOOOOO disagree that the "cool factor is more important".  Maybe to the most superficial, okay.  But to consumers who actually want to be able to use their devices, function is most important.  Brandon Watson stated it pretty clearly, the mom wanting to text or email friends, interface with Facebook, manage the calendar, etc. is the customer they are targetting.  I have friends who are exactly that target audience, and I can tell you what they find important....and what they don't care a lick about.  It ain't the wallpaper or the arrow on the side of the start screen.

  • Ooohhh, @Theo33, I think you're opening up a huge can of worms with the "survey" regarding device specs.  I'm sure Microsoft did a fair amount of market research before they came up with their MINIMUM specs....but remember, those were minimum specs.  The OEMs have actually produced quite a bit of variety while also honoring the minimum specs.  I do NOT want to see a repeat of Android.  That is an unqualified MESS.  Although I agree there is a huge gap between what's supported in the U.S. versus the rest of the world, I would hate to see Microsoft stop vertical development in favor of horizontal development....both should be done equally.  

    - On video calling, there just isn't a huge market for that yet.  Clearly, acquiring Skype is going to be part setting themselves up to support that.  BUT, it's not really the hardware that's the issue.  It's carriers.  It's their bandwidth and cost.  Until the highest bandwidth possible is made available at very little additional cost, you're probably not going to see huge demand for that.  Personally, I'd love it, but I don't see it happening any time soon now that all carriers are scaling back their data plans.  

    - On retail stores, I'm actually shocked that ANYONE does brick & mortar anymore.  It would have to be in a SERIOUSLY high volume, high traffic metro area to make a decent go of it.  Instead of dedicated Microsoft stores, it would be better to PUSH carriers to actually support the devices in THEIR stores.  We've already seen PLENTY of examples where carriers are de-emphasizing WP7.  Also, according to Paul Thurrott and others, there are signs that Microsoft may indeed be investigating building their own phone.  There's a danger in doing that, however.  

    - In the Skydrive issue, there are already plans to meld some of the capabilities and refine others.  In fact, if you visit the Skydrive on the web now there are quite a few positive changes.  I'm liking it so far.  

    - I'm not sure I get your meaning on the Ribbon vs Metro thing.  Metro is exclusively WP7.  BUT, some of the Metro INFLUENCES are being integrated in XBox and Windows 8.  Remember, MS Office is still the 2010 version, so it's going to have legacy interface.  IF (and I stress IF) the next version of Office is to have a Metro-like feel to it, it's going to take a while to design that.  The complexity of menus in Office products does not lend itself to the Metro feel.  Microsoft is just now refining the Ribbon concept for those apps.  And, BTW, you CAN have demonstrated with the Windows 8 teasers.  

    - As for Zune, you might as well get use to it going away.  There may still be a device, but it's more likely that it will resemble a Windows Phone 7 without the Phone (like the iPod Touch).

  • @namesake, why do you think it HAS to be able to be used as a USB drive?  I don't need that.  In fact, the ONLY reason I used that capability AT ALL on my WM2k3 device was because I couldn't access the cloud in the way I can now (which gets only better with Mango).  USB drives are archaic now, in my opinion.  Also, why ruin the Metro UI by trying to make it look like (ugh!) the iPhone or Android phone?  Eeeww.  Also, the "black strip" only exists on the home screen.  No where else that I've found.  And I could care less what mine looks like up next to an iPhone or Android---that's such a superficial issue.  Now, as for the battery indicator, I think I saw that this is getting improved in Mango.  That's the one thing that I find that I agree with you on.

  • ammughal
    25 Posts

    @Michael Add idead,

    Giving away Windows Phone 7 devices to iPhone owners to try for few days and than asking them which one they like ?

  • how about letting old windows mobile users trade in their phone for a mango. let them get it out there and do the advertising for you.

  • Will Mango give us a more organized call history list?  It would be nice to have it broke down into "Incoming", "Outgoing" and "Missed" instead of one long list.

    Also, will it give us the ability to attach/tag multiple files when sending an email, text message, uploading to Facebook, etc.?  If you have many files to share it's kind of a pain to have to send them one at a time.

  • Why is it so hard to support other countries? I really cant understand that?? In Croatia I can buy Android and iPhone apps but no WP luck. I mean everything else is localized such as Windows, Office and how hard is it to localize WP? Only thing that is needed for now is keyboard and marketplace. So if Croatia is not supported in Mango, that means that no support is planned for atleast another 18 months, not until WP8? And no support for dev accounts in Croatia?? Really?

    Another thing thats really bad is your per year update cycles. Thats soo stupid.

    So can anyone please answer me why I cant sell or buy apps here in Croatia? I can buy WP7 phone but I CAN NOT write single word on Croatian language? Is it not a really bad marketing to sell unlocalized phones?

  • Gabrielk
    12 Posts

    @Krush You - Thanks for answering, at least now I know someone actually reads me.

    I can't be 100% sure that it's a lie because I don't work for Microsoft or Telefonica but I think it is because:

    - 2 weeks before the update started scheduling Telefonica said that they were releasing the LG phone update in two weeks, when asked about the Omnia 7 they blamed Samsung.

    - When scheduling started I asked in this blog whether updates where going to be released on all phones and got no answer.

    - Now that delivery started I see LG phones are getting updated to 7392 but no other phones is getting more than 7008, coincidence?

    - Then Telefonica announces that NoDo is available on the LG Optimus 7. I think they would have said it's available on all phones if that were the case.

    Even if the update is really being released on all phones, why not say it clearly? Just add "on all phones", "on the LG Optimus 7" or whatever to the delivering/scheduling blog posts and everyone would get better information.

  • cmwind
    71 Posts

    need MUCH better hardware this fall if WP7 is going to have anything better than a snowballs chance in hell

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    @Gabriel - how is it a lie?

    delivering update does not mean everything is ready to go

    "Microsoft has started to send out the update. Because updates are typically delivered to customers in batches, it might take several weeks before you receive notice that an update is available for you."

    MS realizes the mistake made with NoDo and the understanding is updates will go faster as the carrier will have more then enough time to test it out this time but only time will tell... I can't imagine MS would make a mistake again as it was the shot heard around the world with a lot of negative press

  • I am personally excited about Mango, it looks amazing. I do hope that the update goes smoother than the NoDo update did. I am sure that MS has learned a few lessons. My guess, it will be released late September, and everyone will have it by Christmas.

  • Gabrielk
    12 Posts

    It's a shame I'll never get it, you guys should improve the "Where's my phone update?" page since right now the information given there is a lie. Omnia 7 phones on Telefonica are getting updated to 7008, nothing more, (probably HD7 phones too) just one phone is being updated to 7392, the LG Optimus 7.

    You allow them to test updates for 4 months, which is... just unbelievable, everyone is tired of waiting and the last thing we need is false hopes so please, if you're going to wait another 4 months for them to update another phone at least don't lie.

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    @brianm76 - Michael has stated the phones are not defective and will be upgradeable to Mango its on several different blogs as the same 4 people keep asking about it.

    When they have more info you will get it

  • nQian
    1 Posts


    i believe its in september

  • Adnan
    17 Posts

    Ok I am dying to get Mango, it is looking absolutely amazing. As other users mentioned, more ads on features available and upcoming should be shown on advertisements.

  • Topper
    1 Posts

    <b>PLEASE PLEASE</b> add back SMS functionality you added in Windows Phone 6.1 outlook update!!!  Specifically this was the ability to sync SMS messages from phone to inbox and send from outlook 2010 using phone.  I was happily integrating SMS with outlook 2010 and my 6.1 device and it all stopped when I went to WP7.  Can you please look at putting back some of the 'enterprisey' active sync features.  Not all of use are using windows phone for facebook...(I'm not even on facebook and don't want to be)...I saw an article re: WP7 activesync API on MSDN that this specific feature is not supported (I know), and is not planned to be supported (uggg...).

    Customer for life if you can add this back!

  • Cant wait for the Mango release, Only had my Windows phone for little over a month, coming from a Iphone 3GS and love it! The few little things I want added like saving them dam camera settings lol, are coming with the update so cant wait.. Good work to all the team!

  • brianm76
    61 Posts

    @Karan Singh who told you that the phones are not defective?  I haven't heard MS say the phones are fine and will absolutely be updated.  We havne't heard much of anything from MS, ATT or Samsung but they certainly kept it quiet enough so that most of us have reached the point where we are no longer able to return our phones.  If the phone team is working so hard then why are there no responces on progress and why are these hard working people not working weekends and holidays to get this done?  Because they don't care and at the end of the day they know there is nothing we can do about it other than buy another phone out of contract.

  • brianm76
    61 Posts

    @krush if you don't like the complaining you can choose not to read.  I WILL NOT STOP COMPLAINING until this issue is resolved (if ever).  If you would take your head out of your a** for 1 second you would realize the impact this has on the success of the platform and by defending MS in this situation you are ensuring its eventual destruction.  If you don't like the complaining, skip the comment and move on.  MS what are you going to do once the Focus' have their update to heal our relationship to MS and this platform?  A geasture of good will goes a long way towards this.

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    2. @namesake - thanks for being reasonable and that concept with the transparency does look nice but I still don't think its needed as it is the glance and go phone - plus it may cause the phone to lag as it most likely is going to require more resources. (this is how it was with the various skins and tweeks for WinMo 6.x and Android 2.2)

    But I am sure homebrew will be able to assist with that.

    The concept and design of Windows phone is for it to look simple.  

    3. To be honest the only people I ever hear complain about the black strip is people who would go to sites like this, engadget, gizmodo etcetc.

    I get a lot of compliments on my phone (and surprise when I tell them its the new Windows Phone) and how nice it looks and how fast it is, No one ever asks me why is there that black bar on the side -

  • KR
    503 Posts

    @Theo33, I agree with your first post,especially the second point,Microsoft should slow down a little bit on bringing new features and rather concentrate more on making available the current features globally.I also like the idea of opening retail shops to promote WP and other Microsoft devices as the Zune devices.I have been a huge Microsoft fanboy all my life but leaving in Canada were no one knows about Zune devices,its just 1 month ago I discovered the Zune devices and now I want a Zune HD so badly,but its not sold in Canada and the music marketplace is not available in Canada.

    @Krush,you,I agree with you on your reply regarding the visual customization.i like the way WP looks like and i don't imagine seeing a background behind the tiles eww,

  • @Krush You

    Thanks for reply.

    "1. Iphone does not have a file manager and is working perfectly fine which means very few people care about this - Hell, most people on Android have no idea they can plug it to a pc and just throw stuff onto it. "

    These smart phones comes with 16 to 64GB memory. It would be nice idea if we can manage files directly. browse/open/delete etc. Instead of installing Zune or Itunes etc it would be great a smart phone allows directly using Windows Explorer to copy files. This is the feature Nokia smart phone users like. If iPhone is not providing this feature (Because they want users to purchase songs via iTunes) doesn't mean that users don't like it. Cloud concept is great. But it is not everything.

    "2. Setting the wallpaper behind the screen will look terrible and is a very bad idea - it can be done with homebrew but I doubt MS will ever implement this as I can't see there's enough people who would want this."

    When you have a interest then there is a way. Check below concept. (It can be improved)

    "3. I think you need to just get an Android  device or an Iphone as you are trying to turn it into one - what makes the phone unique is what you don't like - the design is there for a reason to push the icons over would defeat that whole purpose of the design they intended."

    I am not telling WP7 should use icons. I wish the black strip with arrow icon can be avoided to utilize full screen. For consumers cool factor is more important. Microsoft should also concentrate on increasing it in phone. Consumers are prefering Android  device or an Iphone  over Windows Phone same reason.

    "4. Battery & 3G/Edge icon does show on the home screen its hidden by default - tap the top of the screen to see it"

    Thanks for the tips.

  • I know its brilliant but can you just get the flaming thing out so we can use it because its hard to advocate a system based on what it probably will become

  • Opus5001
    10 Posts

    And Michael, thanks for the reassurance that the Focus V.1.4 is updateable.

  • Opus5001
    10 Posts

    "A small group of people got a chance to test drive Mango on a Samsung Focus"

    Wow.  Is that foreshadowing or what?  I had to chuckle when I read it.  :)

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    @namesake -

    1. Iphone does not have a file manager and is working perfectly fine which means very few people care about this - Hell, most people on Android have no idea they can plug it to a pc and just throw stuff onto it.

    2. Setting the wallpaper behind the screen will look terrible and is a very bad idea - it can be done with homebrew but I doubt MS will ever implement this as I can't see there's enough people who would want this

    3. I think you need to just get an Android  device or an Iphone as you are trying to turn it into one - what makes the phone unique is what you don't like - the design is there for a reason to push the icons over would defeat that whole purpose of the design they intended.

    4. Battery & 3G/Edge icon does show on the home screen its hidden by default - tap the top of the screen to see it

  • WixosTrix
    16 Posts

    I want to be able to post (share) the song I'm listening to to my Facebook wall like you can on the Zune HD.  As well as be able to post any album, song, or artist I want to promote amongst my friends.

  • Theo33
    7 Posts

    (continued from last post)

    -user testing; go out into the field and ask user what kind of phone they have and why they like it, and what they dont like, wheteher the phone be a wp7 or ios or android or palm it is all important

    -video calling; this feature isnt realy important to me but it is important to other people and you could do it better than compeitores, micrososft just bought skype and they own windows live messenger both large platforms for vcing implement into the wp7 experince in the next 2 yrs., the reason compeitetiors dont do vid calling well is because it is platform specific (i.e. iphone users can only call other iphones, ipod, ipads, macs and android users can only call android devices wit video cameras) Skype is a crossplatform service and so is live messenger, theres apps for it on iphone and android, if you implement it into wp7 than wp7 users wont be restricted to calling fellow wp7 users


    -make more retail stores; i know you are probably working ard on this but this would help a lot on the carrier bias

    -make your own hardware; this i dont think you would do, but dont stop other companies making their hardware (this sounds a  little farfetched but buy some major hardware companies and morph into one slap the windows logo onto all of them) i just think this would be better

    -morph sype and windows live messenger into one thing; i honestly don't see how this could happen but it should

    , maybe be able to call live clients with skype and vice versa

    Windows/Windows Live

    -get an equivalent to iLife, i know a Windows user who is switching to Mac just because of iMovie (Windows Movie Maker doesn't cut it) justr work on this please, im a hardcore Windows user and this is the only thing that i think Mac does better

    -integrate Live Mesh with SkyDrive; when you connect the computer to live mesh make the files show in skydrive not under the devices panel, be able to edit office docs and view pictures without having to donwload them, make it more like Dropbox

    -Ribbon UI or Metro UI choose one you can't have both


    -DONT KILL THE ZUNE; im not talking about the zune name but the actual zune device and hardware, make it like a windows phone 7 except without data and phone, texting it has real potential you just dont adevrtise

    -ADVERTISE; nobody except hardcore microsoft fans no about zune because of lack of advertisng

    -ADVERTISE; thats right i put it on here twice thats how much i need to stress it, i walked into a microsoft store expecting to see i zune on display but te only place i see it is on a box in the back of the store, how are people gonna know about if you dont have it on display in your few retail stores

    -implement the wp7 apps into it, the great thing about the iPod touch is that it has lots of apps

    sorry for te bad spelling my H key is not working very well and this was a bit rushed, im also only 13 so soem of these ideas may kind of sound impossible or unlikely to adults

  • Theo33
    7 Posts

    Things that Microsoft needs to get better at:

    Windows phone

    -better advertising; I mean really, your advertising does not tell the viewer why a windows phone 7 is better that an iphone or android, do a commercial like "Hi im a windows phone" "and I'm an iPhone" blah blah windows phone is better

    -forget about new features for one moment and work harder on globalizing features, I woulod love to recomened a windows phone to my cousin in a country other that Us/Uk but the iphone would be a better choice their, just do something about that


  • @bgetreu: I mentioned this in comments on a different post today but: Rest assured that v. 1.4 devices are updateable. A fix is in the works. While I don't have word (yet) on timing, owning a 1.4 model shouldn't impact your ability to update to Mango.

  • I think Mango has to provide few basic features required in if it wants to appeal to mass.

    * Good File manager and ability to use phone as USB drive. So that I can directly copy images, video and mp3s using windows explorer. (Even Nokia's feature phones have this feature. I dont need to download PC Suite to copy files. Thats great!)

    * Ability to set wall paper behind tiles and setting transperency level for tiles. Allow to make tiles rounded rectangle.

    * Remove the black strip on right side of home screen and stretch tiles to occupy complete screen. I know it is design decision. But when you keep an android, iPhone and windows phone side by side with home screen. Windows phone looks like a phone with smaller screen. This is not good. Even if you provide some settings to hide this that should be fine.

    * Provide a setting to show Battery, signal details on home screen.

    Anyway I wish Mango Team to best of luck.

  • Good to see that Mango has been getting really good press reviews. Looking foward to some new hardware to go along with it now.

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    Yea, they never said that the phones could not be updated, they haven't recalled them- if it couldn't be fixed it would be recalled - these phones have a year warranty - people need to relax, yes it sucks but complaining over and over on blogs that have nothing to do with the issue isn't going to push them faster.

    All I can suggest is contacting samsung - request a supervisor - hell, go back to where you bought it and say its defective

  • @bgetreu  who told you that v1.4 Focus will never be able to run the mango update? Phone team I am sure is hard working on the fix and updates for v.1.4 Focus issues they have encountered recently.

  • I know you all are sick of hearing this - but it's very difficult to jump for joy over Mango when my Samsung Focus v1.4 will probably never be able to run it.  I think it's time for Microsoft to admit these phones need to be recalled and replaced with devices that can be upgraded.

  • When can the hardcore public get its hands on a pre-release Mango???