Where’s Mango? An update on timing

Where’s Mango? An update on timing

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Hi everybody. Given all the recent speculation around the timing of our Mango update, I wanted to bring you up to speed on what to expect next. 

For months, we and dozens of our partner companies have been laying the groundwork for the Windows Phone 7.5 update—and making solid progress. As a result, we now expect to start rolling it out in the next week or two. At that time, we’ll also refresh the Where’s My Phone Update? table to reflect the worldwide rollout status.

This also seems like a good time to caution against installing unofficial or leaked copies of Windows Phone software.

During the official Windows Phone 7.5 update process, every Windows Phone will also receive software from the handset manufacturer. This matched and paired firmware has been painstakingly tuned so your phone—and apps—work with all the new features of Windows Phone 7.5. Since your phone requires the proper firmware to function as designed, my advice is simple: steer clear of bootleg updates and homebrew tools.

By the way, in case you missed it, we recently released new versions of both the Windows Phone 7 Connector for Mac and the Zune software for PCs, which you’ll need to update your phone. If you haven’t already, I encourage you to install it. I think you’ll like the update-related improvements, which speed up the overall update process and give you more control over backups. A small favor: When you update to Zune 4.8, you’ll be asked to participate in improving the update process. Please consider doing so.

I know you’re eager to get your hands on the next release of Windows Phone—and everyone involved with Windows Phone is equally excited and eager to deliver it to you. Please hang on—we’re almost there. 

Eric Hautala

General Manager, Customer Experience Engineering

187 Comments
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  • It's sad, as a huge Windows Phone fanboy that I am, I have seen several rumors of when WP 7.5 was coming, and all of them got crushed to bits. Windows Phone needs a shock and awe factor, and they missed it. They should have rolled out Mango a long time ago, when it would be least expected, yet most satisfying to those who could look at their Windows Phone in amazement that they were getting an awesome update out of nowhere. Instead, us Windows Phone users are sitting here, left in the dark, with no known date of when we should expect an update. While I'm still anxious and happy for the update, thanks for nothing.

    And as I'm saying this, I'm leaning in... and you'll be doing the same when you do it.  taoofbadassdating.blogspot.com/.../avoid-any-awkward-silence-during.html  You're leaning in ever... so... slowly. At the same time, you're looking from her eyes down to her lips and back up to her eyes again.

    This is called "Triangulating." Count to three looking at her eyes, then look down to her lips and count to two, look back up and count to three, look down and count to two... etc. Do that about three or four times as you're talking.

    This can be a lot to remember, so you may want to practice it a little bit. I wouldn't expect you're going to get it perfect the first time.

    So again, you say, "We're going to have a secret. We're going to kiss and no one is going to know." From here on out, you're really just filling up space with words as you're leaning in so you're still controlling the interaction.

  • There is a danger that as Mango starts to gain ground, the iPhone5 will be announced and take all the mindshare (and probably a lot of markeshare too

    Regards Antony howtogetaguytolikeyou.co/the-secret-survey-guide-for-women-by-michael-fiore

  • The tao of badass Review: www.thetaoofbadass-reviews.com/tao-of-badass-review

    And as I'm saying this, I'm leaning in... and you'll be doing the same when you do it. You're leaning in ever... so... slowly. At the same time, you're looking from her eyes down to her lips and back up to her eyes again.

    This is called "Triangulating." Count to three looking at her eyes, then look down to her lips and count to two, look back up and count to three, look down and count to two... etc. Do that about three or four times as you're talking.

    This can be a lot to remember, so you may want to practice it a little bit. I wouldn't expect you're going to get it perfect the first time.

    So again, you say, "We're going to have a secret. We're going to kiss and no one is going to know." From here on out, you're really just filling up space with words as you're leaning in so you're still controlling the interaction.

  • dewalds
    1 Posts

    Just gave my windows phone away, will never get one again...

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  • ssathya
    2 Posts

    When will I get my update. I have a Samsung Focus 1.3 and no updates yet

  • Eric... your communication sucks. You now why? Today I am going to see my friends. Everyone of them has different phone. Mainly droids, iPhones. I am WP fan, and we exchange some news often ("hey look, my phone can do that!"). Some weeks ago I've told them that Mango will come out soon. September - it was the anouncement. Now I read that you will start pushing it out (emphasis on "start"). Your table says that after this "start" we may wait another several weeks... I know that there is much factors beyond your control. But then - you seem NOT to understand what people feel. What your believers feel! I am gonna go tonight to see my friends. What I will have to tell them is "Microsoft screwed their customers again". I have no other choice. What else I can say? "You know, ye, they have said it will be here, but it isnt"? That will be the same, but other words!

    Why dont you grow up, and tell people sometihing like "We will finish doing our job September, what means, our dear customers will have it probably one month later or so". - What? Too hard? Get real! You have screwed business users of windows mobile by removing lot of usefull functions and switched to leasure market - fine. You've made RIM happy - your choice. But now you maybe think that there are same rules here? One good concept or two (people hub, tiles) will not make you better competitior if you will keep fooling your customers.

    Admit that we will get it in December, and stop the bullshit.

  • I wish I could get Mango on my Focus V1.3.  I know that I am supposed to be ripe for the update, but my phone shows that is is up to date, as does Zune.  I've tried the disconnect from the internet trick many times with no success.

    But here's where it gets bad, really bad. I've contacted support for AT&T and Microsoft and they both point to Samsung.    (Really MS??? Finger pointing???  How about contacting Samsung on my behalf??? ) I couldn't get through to Samsung without going back to AT&T and they connected me to Samsung.  I spoke to someone at Samsung with broken English who claimed that they were NOT yet update the Samsung V1.3.  And that they would have to first update my phone to V1.4.  Wouldn't that be a nice piece of alchemy?

    I then wrote to Samsung's email support explaining everything above and they replied with standard update instructions.  I clicked their "Question not answered" button and explained that I did everything in the instructions.  So they didn't bother replying to that.

    What makes this so frustrating is that I'm very enamored with the Windows Phone 7 and 7.5 look like it fills the rest of my wish list.

    Since this phone is apparently unsupported, I'm glad that the iPhone 5 will be out next week.  

    I wish you Windows Phone developers all the best, but you're being undermined by your colleagues in customer support.

  • linder
    24 Posts

    Received "Mango" 12 hours ago and it really rocks.  Thanks so much!!!!!!!

  • Nater
    147 Posts

    Installed it.  Issues.

    1.  Facebook.  "Attention required" ad infinitum.  Can't get into the settings, can't even delete and reconnect from the phone.  Did it from Live.com and the phone still shows "Attention required" and when I click on it it tells me it's still trying to delete Facebook.  I've hit Sync and reboot my phone about 20 times.  Still the same thing.

    2.  Messaging Hub.  Apparently no way to Auto-Connect when your phone turns on.  You have to manually set your status and log in every single time you turn the phone on, and it takes like almost a full minute to connect over WiFi.  Facebook chat wouldn't even work for like an hour after the update finished.  It finally started working, however, see #1.

    3.  App Updates.  Seeming handled in the most retarded fashion possible.  Can't Update Slacker Radio, because the NoDo version was called Slacker and the Mango Version is called "Slacker Radio."  So when you installed it, you end up with a Duplicate Application on your phone.  Moving on, Marketplace apparently isn't even checking for application updates.  The only one I got was HTC Flashlight.  Nothing else.  I have like 30+ apps on my phone and it's impossible that none of them but a Flashlight App (well, and Slacker.... Radio) was updated for Mango.

    4.  Skydrive.  Lol, I can't believe the usability failing's here.  Really, it's so damn elementary that it's almost as if no one even looked at this before they put this update out.

    For one, you can't even delete files in SkyDrive.  That's not only stupid, it's illogical.  What if you put a private file in the wrong directory (more on that in a bit) by mistake, and need to get it out of there.  All you can do is view properties.  You can't move files, either.

    Secondly (the more part), everything is sorted Alphabetically, is the most retarded fashion.  Folders should always be at the top, on top of files.  Who came up with the idea of sorting everything alphabetically with folders and files being all mixed-together.  It's stupid.

    Thirdly, when you go into a directory, and press the back button you go not to the ROOT folder, but to the Office Hub.  If you can't see the issues with that, then you're beyond help and no amount of criticism (constructive or otherwise) that I give in this post means anything...

    ^-  Good Example of where Beta'ing with Devs willing to invest cash into the platform leads to fanbois ignoring obvious usability failings because anything you hand them in A.O.K.

    5.  Internet Explorer:  Moving Tabs into the menu was dumb.  Point blank.  You shouldn't have to go into menu to get to Tabs in a tabbed browser.  That's for Android.

    6.  The Hardware/Capacitive Search Button is no longer context sensitive.  That was one of the best features of WP7.  Hitting search in Marketplace by instinct/reflex and being thrown into the Bing Search App...  What?!  You butchered the HW search button.  Butchered IE to give more space...  Then you gave us less space in like half the Hubs to compensate for the terrible search button change?

    Well, at least you let us change the default Browser search to Bing instead of Google...

    7.  Bing Maps, specifically turn by turn.  I'll never recommend WP7 to anyone who has kids that drive, for their kids, because the Turn-By-Tap Navigation is a huge safety hazard.  Idea should never have been allowed outside of the discussion room.  It was a reckless decision IMO, and completely irresponsible to let something out that could potentially be the cause of auto-accidents.

    My first impression.  Seems still somewhat unfinished, buggy, and even dangrous at times.  That being said, I'm a heavy smartphone user and I did come from Windows Mobile > Android to WP7.  People who care less about that stuff probably... won't care.  It's a decent updates.  I think the team just had a lack of attention to details.  When you offer similar functionality to other platforms, the details are what separate average from the good to the great.

    It still won't be my daily driver.  Hopefully Apple has a 3.8+ screen on the iP5, then I can switch carriers and finally get a phone I can just use and not have to camp blogs for updates and crap like that.  And yes, I know the trolls will get me for that comment.

  • The table finally reads "Delivering Update" Mango is Here!

  • Chris
    7 Posts

    Pumped!! for Mango.  Whenevery you are ready,, I am ready

  • Chris
    7 Posts

    @UUU     The ** regarding Focus 1.4 was for the previous update.

  • uuu
    12 Posts

    Y is the where your update page says "Also known as "Mango" and the 7720 update.

    **Applies to HTC Surround, LG Quantum, and Samsung Focus v. 1.4 only

    Last updated: 9.27.2011" and I'm reading other blogs that r saying that the Samsung Focus v.1.3 is going to get mango which one is it ? I really want to know.

  • @tsrblke I'm assuming that the countdown to delivery is actually 10 days and that the wpcentral rumour is only partially right in that scheduling would begin today.  However, I do think that with all the international carriers stating that their testing is done, that MSFT held all this information to make every effort to insure that all carriers would start delivery within at least days of each other.  Also, by holding the information until 99.9% of the carriers are done testing, it kept rumours at bay in regards to one particular carrier failing.  As we've all said, it is imperative that all the early adopters receive this update flawlessly and without any one group of owners having to wait any extended time over the initially release.  For now, I am excited that it is two hard notifications coming from MSFT in less than a week.

  • When Brandon Watson confirmed that there are two cleanup updates going out to developers running the Betas of Mango so that they wouldn't have to drop back to NoDo I started looking for any indication of whether or not this would work with ALL Beta units or if those who loaded it via the WPSupportTool would still have to drop back to NoDo.  So far, nobody who updated that way has indicated that the cleanup is showing up for them.  Since I've also not seen anyone post that their Focus on NoDo has started updating, I'm holding off on dropping back.

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    @bill94in98

    Indeed, but I am concerned that everything went to "Scheduling"  Not sure if this is just an old page they just now turned on to the public or if the "well sourced rumor" from WPcentral was just wrong ;).

  • In the words of Ice Cube “Today was a good day…”

    mango.microsoft.com/.../update-schedule-usa.aspx

    No more rumors, no more hanging on every Bing search as to when… The countdown can truly begin!

  • omesius
    1 Posts

    I just talked to an AT&T sales associate and he said they're gonna push out the update on September 27 for the Focus and I forgot the other phone. Sadly he said the HD7S won't see an update until the last week of October. And guess who has a HD7S. This sucks for me. I hate how everyone is gonna have the Mango update while I have to wait a whole month to join the party.

    Although, I'm happy to hear that everyone else is gonna have fun. Enjoy Mango everyone and tell me how you like it!

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    @jbrunick

    The MS website is refering to a premango update 7392 which did only go to 1.4 Foci (Focuses?, Focals?).  The "where's my phone update" page has yet to be updated for mango.

  • I am a bit confused. This blog's comments reference articles which say Samsung confirmed the Mango update for Focus rev 1.3  will occur on Sept 27 and rev 1.4 will occur towards the end of Oct.  However, Microsoft's own update site says rev 1.4 is the one they are delivering updates for.  Who is correct?

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    @ScubaDog2011

    Behold my powers of unwarrated extrapolation!  (Obligatory reference: http://xkcd.com/605/)

    Originally they said that the pre-Nodo update bricked something like less than 10% of Focuses (Foci?) before they pulled it and we started hearing about "1.3 vs. 1.4" If I had to guess (purely a guess) I'd say that means less than 10% of Foci are 1.4.

    Now it's entirely unclear if they 1.4s were a short run production or if everything sold after [Date X] is actually a 1.4 (I'm inclined to this it's the former since my friends picking up foci are still get 1.3s, but that's speculation. Especially since it may just be local stores are still stocked with 1.3).

    But yes, I'm thinking 1.3 goes first merely because there are significantly more of them.  As to why they couldn't just run both updates at the same time that part is still entirely unclear to me.  Like really unclear.  Like I don't get it.  (Perhaps it's just an internal AT&T buffer so that they can be reasonably certian anyone who calls in for help between tommorow and 1.4 roll out has a 1.3 phone, After which you can be reasonably certain most people will have upgraded, then you roll 1.4)

  • @jburch, I THINK the reason the 1.4v Focus is delayed is because they can't deploy to both versions of the Focus at the same time.  Remember, you guys got the security update and we didn't.  We have to wait until Mango.  Granted, that particularly update provided no outward functionality, but I'm speaking more to the process.  So, technically, the 1.4v Focus owners are ahead of the 1.3v Focus owners for the moment.  And, from a purely selfish motive, I think it's right that IF Mango can't be rolled to both versions at the same time that it should roll to the 1.3v first--I'm betting we consitute the higher percentage of Focus devices (but that's just a guess).  This is one time I don't ascribe any malicious intent or incompetence to Microsoft or AT&T.....well, MAYBE on the part of AT&T....but we'll have to see how this rolls out.

  • :-(

    I'm unhappy about the, "starting the actual delivery process--emphasis on starting," part of this thread. It means nothing at all to the person who holds a WP7 in their hand today. What's wrong with Mango? Is it not working on all phones? Is there a security issue that is causing you to not release it? Why this crazy long delay? Why not just say when we can expect to update our phones? Not confident it will work?

  • Nater
    147 Posts

    Quote: "The funny part is that Apple is copying Google and Microsoft in iOS5.

    Hmm now where have I seen drag down notifications?  Oh yeah, Android."

    That's more than fine, IMO.  As long as they're doing what they have to do to enhance usability.  WP7 Notifications are similar to iOS4 Notifications at the moment, and everyone knows how terrible those are.  There is no Notification Cache.  You're basically forced to pin unlimited amounts of Tiles to your homescreen and even then the experience is subpar.  They desperately need to make a notification cache, and they need to stop being different for the sake of being different.  By doing that they've made even simple tasks like getting to your dialer to call a number take more taps/more time than on other platforms.  It makes absolutely no sense.

    Also, Blackberry has a pull-down notification system, and has had it before Android, so you should do a bit of research before you keep trying to draw lines back to Android.

  • jburch
    45 Posts

    I can't belive v1.4 Focus owners are going to get screwed again.  This time they can't use the excuse that they didn't know two different versions of the phone existed.  They have had plenty of time to prepare for both versions of the phone.

  • Opus5001
    10 Posts

    I just read a post on neowin.net saying Microsoft will send out an update for all Mango beta users that will clean up all beta provisionings on your phone and prepare it for the Mango update.  So all beta users may not have to do anything other than install the two updates.  This is the first mention of this update that I have seen so you may want to wait until later in the day for confirmation before acting on it.

  • Can anybody tell when the "Where's my phone update?" - site will be updated?

  • Krush You
    94 Posts

    @g60al Good Lord that was the biggest mess of an explanation I have ever seen...

    Bill Gates has nothing to do with MS, hasn't in over 6-7 years now.

    It sounds like you want a phone you can do everything with, you are better off with android as the software isn't locked down but my personal experience with android was its another windows mobile where it could do everything but not do one thing well enough.

  • g60al
    2 Posts

    en.wikipedia.org/.../Windows_Phone_7.5

    If all this stuff here is added, My Trophy will be amense!!

    At present everything on My Win 7 HTC Trophy is no better than an old PC running Windows 95!!

    My most favoured update would be a proper Microsoft remote desktop connection to your windows PC - Why The Heck not -

    Control Media Player anywhere in your house - Set A PC Running A Scan or update etc...(We All know this has to be done constantly - Especially Vista)

    No risk of Harvesting from A third Party!

    I just tried A VLC Remote - Rubbish - No Volume, No Browse to options etc!

    I wjust want to Have Control of my Media PC when playing a movie!

    Third Party Applications are dangerous - Harvesting Your info & empting the battery!

    Nokia & Apple must be still laughing at how basic this Win 7 OS is!

    If your lisening Microsoft (Bill Gates!) Grab A Nokia  N97 (Generic) Smoke A Large Joint & Install Opera Mobile & Sit Back - This is how to put a phone together no messing!

    Viewing IP Cameras @ work From your Phone @ Home using your Mobile Internet!

    Download any file (.exe) from the internet  to the flash card - stick it in a micro to stanard SD converter - Stick into PC & there you go -  The drivers or program that you need there and then is on your PC that has no internet connection (Thats why Nokias - With no added APPs are the best - simples)

    The Only reason i have both this phones is that i downloaded some Apps from The OVI store & now i have Back ground harvesting  & Battery Only lasts a day - Most People Won't realise there Nokia is doing This - But try Putting All your Network Destinations to - Connect After Confirmation!!

    The Phone will constantly Ask you what connection it can use to send someone your peronal Data & at the same time

    puts the screen & wastes the battery!

    The N97 can only be cleaned by Nokia (Not your Local Service Center)  Doing a complete Format of the hidden  'Z' Drive. Spoke to them a few times but the Eastern Call centers don't understand anything apart from the printed sheet in front of them.  They said they'd ring back within 3 - 4 days, but an level 2 engineer called back with 10 mins - He Didn't or wouldn't talk about this phone even having the hidden Z drive (firmware) so i gave up & are calling back tommorow with an idea that i have to speak to a level 1 engineer?? Don't know but i want to speak to A Finish person that it knowledgable & enthusiastic About Nokia!!! Not someone that can't understand me and is worried what he says as his manager listening to the all recorded info & not doing anywork himself, just for him slipping up & saying Yes your right there is a problem!

    Anyway i went for the HTC Trophy & I must say a massive let down... "Its doesn't really do much" - Me

  • g60al
    2 Posts

    en.wikipedia.org/.../Windows_Phone_7.5

    If all this stuff here is added, My Trophy will be amense!!

    At present everything on My Win 7 HTC Trophy is no better than an old PC running Windows 95!!

    My most favoured update would be a proper Microsoft remote desktop connection to your windows PC - Why The Heck not -

    Control Media Player anywhere in your house - Set A PC Running A Scan or update etc...(We All know this has to be done constantly - Especially Vista)

    No risk of Harvesting from A third Party!

    I just tried A VLC Remote - Rubbish - No Volume, No Browse to options etc!

    I wjust want to Have Control of my Media PC when playing a movie!

    Third Party Applications are dangerous - Harvesting Your info & empting the battery!

    Nokia & Apple must be still laughing at how basic this Win 7 OS is!

    If your lisening Microsoft (Bill Gates!) Grab A Nokia  N97 (Generic) Smoke A Large Joint & Install Opera Mobile & Sit Back - This is how to put a phone together no messing!

    Viewing IP Cameras @ work From your Phone @ Home using your Mobile Internet!

    Download any file (.exe) from the internet  to the flash card - stick it in a micro to stanard SD converter - Stick into PC & there you go -  The drivers or program that you need there and then is on your PC that has no internet connection (Thats why Nokias - With no added APPs are the best - simples)

    The Only reason i have both this phones is that i downloaded some Apps from The OVI store & now i have Back ground harvesting  & Battery Only lasts a day - Most People Won't realise there Nokia is doing This - But try Putting All your Network Destinations to - Connect After Confirmation!!

    The Phone will constantly Ask you what connection it can use to send someone your peronal Data & at the same time

    puts the screen & wastes the battery!

    The N97 can only be cleaned by Nokia (Not your Local Service Center)  Doing a complete Format of the hidden  'Z' Drive. Spoke to them a few times but the Eastern Call centers don't understand anything apart from the printed sheet in front of them.  They said they'd ring back within 3 - 4 days, but an level 2 engineer called back with 10 mins - He Didn't or wouldn't talk about this phone even having the hidden Z drive (firmware) so i gave up & are calling back tommorow with an idea that i have to speak to a level 1 engineer?? Don't know but i want to speak to A Finish person that it knowledgable & enthusiastic About Nokia!!! Not someone that can't understand me and is worried what he says as his manager listening to the all recorded info & not doing anywork himself, just for him slipping up & saying Yes your right there is a problem!

    Anyway i went for the HTC Trophy & I must say a massive let down... "Its doesn't really do much" - Me

  • This is my first posting and probably my last. I am a HTC Trophy user in Southeast Asia, particularly Singapore. After using WP7 for the past year, I have no doubt that this has been a great OS compared to iOS and Android. To be fair, I have never use both of them before, but playing around with my friends' phones, they can never compare with mine. The simplicity beats them hands down.

    But sadly, I will not going to continue using this phone anymore, whether Mango is coming or not. To me, it does not make any difference, because the best and relevant stuff is all US-centric. I guess 10 years down the road, WP7 will remain this way. Bing maps, Local scout, TbyT navi, Music, Videos, its endless. All this features are all US-centric. So what is the point for a normal consumer like me to adopt WP7 when I still have to use 3rd party apps to enjoy similar features.

    There is only a small minority here that uses WP7. The best part is I have yet to physically meet anyone using WP7, everyone around me uses an Iphone. I just saw an ad in the papers, my phone costs only $299 Singdollars, that is a big drop from around $800 when it was launched not long ago. And here, Apple controls the market, anywhere you go, you can easily see anyone holding an Iphone or an Ipad. You can never miss it.

    From a normal consumer like me, my message to Microsoft is you can give up marketing WP7, especially here in Singapore. As long as all the best bits are US-centric, you can never penetrate the market here, not even with Nokia's help. As far as I know, Nokia is dead in Singapore. Most of the people around me, can't be bothered with other OSes, all they think about is, the arrival of Iphone 5. I for one, will also be looking forward to the next Apple offering. So thanks Microsoft, for the memories.  

    PS. Isn't it funny that your biggest users are out of the US market but the 'so-called' great features are only available to the US? We are not your guinea pigs, you know.. the world market, especially Asia, is much larger than the US..so try to keep that in mind...

  • I Hope there will be more advertisement for Windows Phone! very rare people know about Windows Phone, and his greatness. if there would be more advertisement them more people should know how fantastic this phone and there is chance to grow up the community and make it more popular .

  • cm3763
    37 Posts

    Wish I would of stayed with the Iphone....WP7 was good change but at least apple updates will be there no matter what...having the Samsung 1.4 waiting months to get updates is stupid. Microsoft and Samsung should of made it a priority to not let this happen once again to the same customers who had to wait months for Nodo update. Yet they decided to make us last in line for the update and most will have little faith in them to have a quick and speedy release based on there previous history with 1.4. Thanks Microsoft and Samsung counting down the days I can go back to Android or iOS

  • cm3763
    37 Posts

    Yay it looks like once again Samsung focus 1.4 gets to wait longer for there update.....blog.wirelessground.com/att-wp7-5-update-september-27th

  • The funny part is that Apple is copying Google and Microsoft in iOS5.

    Hmm now where have I seen drag down notifications?  Oh yeah, Android.

    And where have a seen lock screen notifications that allow you to drag them across & take you directly into the app? Oh yeah, my old good friend Windows Mobile 6.5

  • Nater
    147 Posts

    Quote:  " LOL. Yeah I agree! crApple is definitely buttf&cking people like you (aka iTurds) with their prices."

    The 16GB iPhone costs 199.99 subsidized (the way most people buy their phones), the same as 8GB Windows Phones were in the same store.  Only reason why those phones are cheap as dirt now, is cause the Carriers can't sell them.

    The HD7 turned out to be hte worst smartphone investment I've ever taken, ever.  I've BARELY used it, because Pre-Mango WP7 is more comparable to a feature phone than a smartphone.  Thankfully, it's been almost a year, so my ETF is cheap as hell now.  I'm about to switch carriers anyways, and I'm pretty sure I won't even consider another WP7 device.  Do me once, shame on you.  Do me twice...

    Well, you finish that

  • Does anybody know if Gapless Playback will be supported in Mango or indeed EVER with Windows Phone. Its such a basic function on any music player and I'm astounded that the WP doesn't have this.

  • gahbmwm5
    16 Posts

    lol, as I have a AT&T rev1.3 Focus, and am leaving to go out-of-town on Sept. 27th....My flight leaves @11:00am PST, and after this, I will only have access to a Mac 10.5.8...dam as the v2 of the Windows Phone 7 Mac Connector requires OSX 10.6.6 or higher.....

    Hopefully, the Mango update will be out in the early am....lol

    Possibly a AT&T Corp store 'may' be able to let me flash it....however, I recall that their IT guys totally restrict their Windows PC (in the store)....Oh well, will see...can not wait, but  I may have to wait till I get back to my PC on Oct. 11th...

  • @iphoneapple LOL. Yeah I agree! crApple is definitely buttf&cking people like you (aka iTurds) with their prices. "It just works" right? Try holding it in your left hand, or setting up the alarn clock on your iPoo then say it just works. Oh and log in to your guest profile crapple mac then tell me it just works.

    Apple sucks and your just another retard who likes being pawned and r4ped by them. Lion better Windows, yet it surprises how the mac still hangs around and 5%... and the fact that I've seen every mac user running one version of windows or another... get a life and or go lick steve blow jobs rear!

    Oh and apple is so good that they couldn't come up with anything original so they robbed their new features from WP7 and android. Steve blow jobs was right; 2011, is the year of the copycat where crApple steals ideas from others and sues them because they're being hammered by android!

    crApple is already second in the smartphone and soon it'll be third and then it'll become a minority like how it is in the desktop market.

    Don't worry yourself over the ipad that'll fall soon too as android is gaining momentum and windows 8 will come along to finish it off.

    Retard! Get a life!

  • I bought my unlocked Windows Phone (HTC Mozart) while in US and brought it to Brazil where Microsoft didn't care to release anything so far.

    The phone works fine with my local carrier (Vivo) but, where do I will get the update from? HTC directly?

  • PLEASE release the Zune marketplace in India! Also, can we get a percentage battery indicator? Would be nice to see our battery status more precisely.

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    @raghavgrover

    It's been said in a few places that every phone will be updated to Mango.  There were some firmware upgrades sent out between NoDo and now (according ot at least one of Eric's blog posts as I read them) I think they're just maintence updates to improve battey life and the such.

  • Just a question , will HTC HD7 receive an update to Mango ? Even after NoDo a special update for HD7 for firmware was launched  , just curious has Microsodt launched any details as of what phones they'll be updating ?

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    @Hawk

    Scuba may triple my post number, but that doesn't mean he's the only person worth listening to :P.

    I already explained how it's different in a post above that.  Basically it's because 1.4 is now known, whereas before it took MS by surprise and a whole update had to be tweaked.  This is already done.

  • Hawk
    61 Posts

    Wow...if the rumor is true about the Focus rev1.4 won't receive Mango until the end of October, then it sounds like what I said earlier is true..."next week or two turns into the next month or two or even worse"!!!  

    I'm now concerned that it's NoDo ALL OVER AGAIN.  The next month or two turns into another month or two and so on.  Before you know it, I won't have Mango until next year.  WTF!  Now explain that Scubbadogg.

  • Windows Phone needs more marketing/advertising. Many of my friends & family see my phone and ask "what phones that?". I then go on to tell them its a Samsung Omnia 7 running Windows Phone 7 and the strange look I get is followed by "What the hell is Windows Phone?" I then have to show them what it does and what it will do once Mango arrives and they're in awe of this phone, especially with Mango.

    Now, in the UK, I have not seen ONE television commercial regarding Windows Phone and I think this is a massive loss to Microsoft. I go on Facebook and still, nothing. The only way Windows Phone will be ANY threat to Android or Apple is to get the product OUT THERE.

  • @tsrblke, I totally agree.  And, speaking totally selfishly, I'm glad the v1.3 Focus will rollout from AT&T first---after all, BOTH versions waited for a long time while the issues with the v1.4 were worked on, and then only the v1.4 owners got 7392!  I was stuck with 7390 (until I loaded Beta 2 of Mango).  Although they've not said as much, it really appears now that the 1.3 and 1.4 Focus are treated as differently as a Focus and an Omnia.  So, it makes sense that they are rolling one separate from the other.  Not GOOD, just understandable.

    Also, I completely forgot to mention, as you've already pointed out, the voice command ability.  With Mango it's even more convenient.  I can press & hold the start button, say "Text John Smith" and then it responds with "Say your message".  I say my message and after a pause it reads it back to me and asks if I'd like to try again, send or cancel.  Cool beans.  The voice command for Call already works in stock WP7 devices.  I just don't think people take nearly as much advantage as they should.  You're dead on the voice command is where it's at.  I just hope future release integrate even more voice features---currently you can't dictate an email =(.

    Finally, @BuckeyeTico, you hit it right again.  Peer pressure (what's cool) plays a much bigger role (though not exclusively), so the timing of launch is only going to be a significant player if there's a big delay between the launches.  If someone is ready to buy a smartphone but not red-hot to do so, having the iPhone 5 come out roughly the same time as Mango devices will simply allow customers to try out both.  That's a fair shot at the market.  But, if a device is marketed well, that can influence someone's impulse-buy imperative.  Right now the WP7 marketing is tremendously week.  I almost never see commercials.  And, interestingly, the same for the iPhone 5.  I see some ads for the iPhone in general, but not the 5 specifically.  In contrast, the stupid Android is splashed all over the place.  Their ad campaign, as shallow and preposterous as it is, is nonetheless brilliant because it plays to demographic easily swayed by senseless eyecandy.  I saw the HTC ads for the Titan and Radar.  Visually stunning.  Told me abolutley nothing about why I should buy those devices.  And, they might actually appeal to the same demographic as the Android ads.  Too early to tell.

    But, for those of us who really are serious about helping Windows Phone succeed, we have to be aggressive in getting our devices into the hands of potential customers and quit spending so much time whining.  I have no problem telling people where WP7 does fall short, but I make sure that I get them to tell me how they expect to use a smartphone and I proceed to show them how WP7 does it.....better.  If there's something they want and WP7 doesn't do it, I'm honest enough to say so.

  • @kenny rawlins:

    "Preference is what you use to judge which phone satisfy you the most and not what you use to qualify an OS/Phone to ne overall better.

    Why do all the customer survey put iOS ahead,and all the survey on the Overall OS do the same?

    The answer is simple,it deserves it."

    I think I understand the distinction now.

    Yet, I don't think one can rely on customer surveys because, to me, those would implicitly blur the lines with the customer's preferences.  

    Unless  the people surveyed could objectively look at a full list of features of each OS, appreciate it, and say, "Yes, that one is 'better' "

    Then again, looking at a list of features in qualifying an OS is different from say looking at the list AND looking at how those features are implemented/executed/work in real life.  

    Again, those surveys would had to have taken to that account somehow and I really doubt the people polled really separate that in their mind, especially once we associate something positive to something it's sometimes hard to break that connection.

    Hell look at that Molly Wood chick. Her review of WP7 clearly showed how much she was so used to Android that she couldn't separate her usage of WP7 without comparison.

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    @BuckeyeTico

    FWIW, were I in charge, I'd probably still hold off the ad campaign until the new features arrive.  Otherwise you'll be accused of false advertising and disappointing customers.  If the ads don't start coming once Mango starts shipping, then I'll be worried.

  • Come on guys! Honestly, without an aggressive marketing campaign, it will not make any difference if MS releases Mango before iPhone 5.  Sad but true!

    Let’s be honest, the people who loves and cares about WP7 are the fans, the ones who were expecting this platform to be released once it was announced last year, the same people that are here now, impatiently waiting for Mango to be released… Yes! I am talking about us.  We, the ones who complain, whine, dream and live about this OS.  Of course, there are later adopters who have boarded the ship recently but the vast majority is made of former WM users.  

    Once again, without an aggressive marketing campaign from MS, WP7 will struggle to grow, simply because everybody knows about iPhone and Android but not enough about WP7.  This blog, the podcasts, the tiny display in the back of the carrier’s building or word of mouth will not be enough and certainly; releasing Mango before iPhone (just by itself), will not change the minds of those who are already planning on buying the next iOS device.  Both, ScubaDog and Kenny (and others), have made reasonable arguments but most people (what some of you call: the average consumer) buy what’s cool, what’s famous, what everybody wants.  But the truth is, WP7 does not (at least at this moment) this label on.

    On the other hand, are we becoming a lazy society? We are complaining now because, with Mango, we have to do an extra tap to get to our Favorites and Tabs.  Come on guys! It’s just an extra tap! I rather do that extra tap and have the web pages better displayed on my 3.6” screen (of course, I am on Sprint).  I wonder if those who are complaining about this are the ones who have 4.3” screen phones.  No matter what, there will always be a hair in the soup!

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    @RobertGreenlee (Podcast Rob? or just a coincidence)

    That article already had that information when I liked it. I probably should have put more than the like and a quick "Rumors and such" but I was tired, and in a hurry and assumed people would read it.  My bad.

    @kakaharoo

    It's not entirely "Here we go again" last time 1.4 came as a suprise to everyone, there was a scramble to get an update written, which then had to be tested.  This time it's written.  If these emails are to be believed, there will be a month delay, maybe less if whoever is in charge can steph on it.  Given that updates roll out in batches to users anway, this may not be a noticeable update delay relative to how fast AT&T rolls it out to customers. (i.e. the last 1.3 users and the first 1.4 users to get the update may have significant overlap.

    @Scuba2011 and everyone else talking about contact searching.  You are forgetting voice commands too.  If you just want to call or (I think in mango this is possible) text someone you don't have to search for their contacts, you can just speak into your phone (which is awesome!)  I have my wife pinned to my start page, but I hardly ever even use that.  I just say "Call Wife [Mobile/Work/Work2]" and away it goes! (To those who didn't know Protip: WP7 supports nicknames and then will use that nickname for the voice calling.  It may take 1-2 times for the software to recognize the new name if it's a bit off of standard language and it it can't actually be spoken because it completely violates rules of spoken language, I haven't gotten it to work but most/all of my nicknames work fine).  I would love to see an Email option (as in "Email Joe Smith" pulling up my mail program/mail porgram choice list) or even a voice search option for contacts though.

    Voice command is the future ;)

  • KR
    503 Posts

    @kakaharoo,

    Lol.now I'll like to see the face of those people who saying Microsoft has learned from NoDo.

    @scubadog2011,

    IOS took the app approach and maybe that's why they'll always have many developers and matter of fact its working for them.maybe when u are in the states WP makes your life better but in Canada it serves simply as a phone

  • kakaharoo
    12 Posts

    From www.wpcentral.com/ATT-begins-mango-update-program-september-27th-full-details:

    "Now the bad news. The Samsung Focus is still divided into two camps, depending on the hardware revision. Revision v1.3 will get the update on 9/27 while v1.4 will have to wait till end of October:

       The Samsung team came back an provided this information about WINDOWS 7.5 for the Samsung Focus devices.

           rev 1.3(Micron): Windows 7.5 update will be available through Zune on 9/27.

           rev 1.4(LSI) : Update has not entered the AT&T SPE lab yet; however, Samsung is targeting for 10/17 lab entry and 10/31 TA"

    Here we go again!

  • @Mantvydas, you suggest that Mango must come out before iPhone 4S (which is now slated to come out 21 Oct, not 4 Oct).  So, that's a non-issue, since it's already rolling out next week.  But, as with others who have suggested the same thing, you don't present a credible reason WHY, other than we'd all be happier (which is a good reason for rolling out sooner rather than later, but it has nothing to do with the release of a competitor's device).  You then doubt Mango's value after holding it for "a minute" and you apparently have not bothered to view any of the many videos out there that "hold your hand" through many of the new features or changes.  You went on to complain about it taking two taps to search for contacts, suggesting it should be "zero".  Show me one device that has "zero" taps to search for contacts.  From what I can tell, it takes at least two taps for all devices.  The only way I can imagine that MS would be able to get it down to one tap would be to eat up a section of the People screen with a search bar.  I suppose that might be a worthwhile suggestion, but remember that the People hub does more things than just show basic contact information --which is all the iPhone and Android does.  Obviously, that still could be done, but it sacrifices screen space to automatically put a search block there.  Some will like that trade-off, some will not.  Personally, I wouldn't.  Still, MS may very well incorporate that in a later update....you never know.  But I would submit that you can't really gauge how good (or bad) the Mango update is just by holding a device loaded with it for a minute.

  • Quick Followup - This article has different info on the Focus 1.3 update.

    www.wpcentral.com/ATT-begins-mango-update-program-september-27th-full-details

    It says 1.3 will start deliverying on Sep 27th and 1.4 is still in testing.

  • @Kenny Rawlins, you kept referring to "the right apps".  Therein lies part of the issue.  To do anything really useful, in my opinion, with iOS or Android you HAVE to load an app.  But right out of the box I can access, connect, work, etc. so much more on WP7 than I can on my wife's iPhone 4.  Every time I turn around to try to have her do something it's "oh, we need to find an app for that".  So, on top of needing an app for a lot of things I take for granted on WP7, I feel the apps work much better on WP7 in doing the same tasks.

  • So whats the deal with AT&T only pushing to Samsung Focus 1.4 phones.

    Delivering update (HTC Surround, LG Quantum, and Samsung Focus v. 1.4 only)

    Ihave had my focus for about a month and the label shows it to be a v1.3. Should I be taking it back and demand a 1.4 model so it can get upgraded?

  • KR
    503 Posts

    Preference is what you use to judge which phone satisfy you the most and not what you use to qualify an OS/Phone to ne overall better.

    Why do all the customer survey put iOS ahead,and all the survey on the Overall OS do the same?

    The answer is simple,it deserves it.

    I prefer WP too,reason why I own one,but it doesn't stop from seeing how iOS is great

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    @Kenny Rawlins

    So much of that depends on what you want your phone to do of course.  My wife's iphone's voice commands aren't as useful as the WP7 for most of the things we do (I don't think she can voice search) but it can play specific albums by voice (something the WP7 can't do).  Given that we never do the latter anyway....

    Office is another great example, I open attachments all the time on my phone to give things a once over from work when I get them (if they're important).  So the fact that the iphone lacks an office program is kinda crappy for me.  Of course my wife doesn't bring her work home with her, so she doesn't use it.

    Glance and go is a huge advantage.  I can check the temperature/news/whatever before my wife can even find the app for hers.

    So depending on how you use your phone, I could see how Scuba gets more mileage out of whis WP7 than his wife does out of the iphone.

  • @kenny rawlins

    Isn't  what a person wants in a phone's capabilities technically part of their preference and thus "preferences vary" ?

  • Mantvydas
    15 Posts

    1. Mango sure needs to come before iPhone 4S rumoured to be available on October 4.

    2. You need to release Mango in a shortest time possible from "Start" of roll-out to "Finish" of roll-out, then we would all be happy.

    3. I wonder if Mango is really that awesome. After holding it for a minute at my friends, I didn't see much difference from what I have in my NoDo. After it's deployed you need to take our hands and follow us through the features. Searching for contacts is still two taps away (instead of zero) in the Phone app even in Mango.

  • Steve
    2 Posts

    Zune is pretty awesome. Thank you for all the hard work. I agree, in terms of U.I. and functionality I would like 2 things, for it to be more in tune with Windows Theme styles, such as when I minimize and restore to have the fade down and fade up animations. Another request would be to see an actual equalizer. I do not understand after all this time why still there is no equalizer. And lastly a more enhanced repeat function. I want to either be able to repeat one, repeat all, shuffle or play once. And integrate that same feature into WP7 as well. That would be great. Thanks again. Looking forward to the update for the phone. Which by the way all my iPhone friends love and 2 have switched to WP7 since I have shown them how awesome it all is. Good work y'all. Peace.

  • KR
    503 Posts

    @scubadog

    As much as I hate apple and all their products you make me laugh when you say your Focus wins in all aspects over your wife's iPhone 4,either your wife or you doesn't know how to fully use the iPhone or just don't have the right apps installed.

    The simply truth is the iPhone 4 does more than any current windows phone and all those already announced,I'm not talking about how its done I'm talking of capabilities.all you need for you to get the most out of your iPhone is the right app which you'll definitely find.

    About how buggy your wife's i4 is,idk about that,because my ex gf had an iPhone 4 and it has never ever frozen or go unresponsive just as my WP,on the other hand some people on this blog have complained about how defective their WP have been

    I know you're a fan boy and you'll always use the argument of "preferences vary" to feel better about yourself but open your eyes and admit the reality

  • ScubaDog
    141 Posts

    Maybe not so much a rumor.  WPCentral says it's a source anonymous to US but very well known to them, so they are very confident it's accurate.  

    As for you poor souls who consider WP7 just a phone, all I can say is you have completely different thoughts on what a smartphone is that what we do.  And, of course, if you haven't been using Mango yet you're sort of at a disadvantage.  I've posted this before, but I can go head to head with my wife's iPhone 4 and outperform her at every turn... EVERY turn.  So, @iPhoneApple, you can troll off to that little island you live on.  You're full of Barbara Streisand.  How many times has my wife's iPhone 4 crashed to a point where a complete reload (including OS) was necessary?  Two.  How many time has my Focus?  Zero.

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    A friend just sent me this link: www.wpcentral.com/ATT-begins-mango-update-program-september-27th-full-details

    It's all rumors and such, I suppose.  But we shall see.

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    Odd,

    I've been seeing my phone as the opposite.  Typically my wife and i would travel with a netbook, now we just take our phones (my WP7 and her iPhone), we've even started leaving the GPS'es behind.  The added features in Mango will only make it more useful to me IMHO.

  • KR
    503 Posts

    @James,

    I completely agree with you.I've learned how to leave with the extreme lack of features to the point i'm no more excited about mango or any future update.i'm just curious to see what it contains.Just as you said i now see my phone as a phone,not a smartphone

  • Recently I see my phone as a phone... not a smart phone. New features in mango. So what? I just don't see any benefit anymore. I guess it will be great for the public though. I'm sure lots of people will love the update.

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    OMG! Apple fanbois sent out the Attacksqaud!  Amazing.  Now I know WP7 is awesome!

    Meanwhile on planet reality @Scuba2011.  I see your point.  MS needs to market straight to the consumer on this one, relying on the providers won't work.  Hell I can't figure out how they make their recomendations, but I know they're not looking out for their customers.  Even if I came in and described a WP7 perfectly ("I'd like a phone that has integrated Office programs, access to a music subscription service, and directly integrates with Facebook without an App") I'd bet they'd steer me to whatever Andriod device just came in and offers them the biggest comission (make no mistake, your friendly AT&T rep is paid on some sort of comission like program).  This one is going to have to be on MS.

    Also the community.  Apple sells well in part because it has a rabid fanbase (see my joke above).   Now we don't have to be as crazy as our iphone fanboi counterparts and invade their forums/blogs/ect and insult them (Moderator needed in Post 12, Moderator needed).  But we do need to dispense to the 4 corners of the globe, make with the talk up, etc.

    Well we don't have to I suppse, I mean I guess MS doesn't pay us.  (Unless they want to pay me, I'm down with that.) But I'm a tech evangelist, so  I tend to do that kinda thing for any tech I like.

  • @scubadog2011

    but at least you get dates, windows is still far from android to whether it hurts to users wp7

  • @scubadog2011

    pero al menos te dan fechas,windows aun esta muy lejos de android a si nos duela a los usuarios de wp7

  • LOL you windows phone noobs. You disgust me. You have no clue what a good phone or a good OS is. There is a reason the iPhone is #1. Reason being that it is the best. Best user expirience. Best OS. Best apps. Best media player. Fast as F@#$. Apps are alot cheeper and you pay like 0.99 for an app on iOS but pay like 5.99 on WP7. Windows 7/8 fail. Apple is the best. Apple is like the badass person that just beats the sh!t out of everyone. Apple is literally buttf&cking its competition. Lion>Windows. A tablet OS on a desktop? LOL you noobs. You have no idea about what you are missing.

    "it just works"-Steve Jobs

  • KR
    503 Posts

    without Zune pass or the music marketplace,just movies and apps

  • KR
    503 Posts

    @scubadog2011

    until i see it,then shall i believe it.For now my Zune is still the same old thing(4.8)

  • BTW, reports are now coming out that Zune, including Zune Pass, is about to roll to our Canadian friends.  Congrats! (finally, right?)

  • @wqwalter, did you not make a backup of the backup of the backup of your NoDo file?  On several of the websites they articulate how (and where) you move the file back to where Zune can see it for a restore (XDA Developers website has this info, for example).  Also, I'm pretty sure I saw posts regarding a "basic" flash of either NoDo or pre-NoDo for those who had issues with the "Walshied Phone" problem (thankfully, I didn't use that method to unlock my phone).  This would probably allow you to get the Focus usable....that's assuming you aren't actually dealing with a hardware issue.  I've been running Beta 2 on my Focus 1.3 device since it was available to developers and have had no issues with USB recognition.  So, I'd be leaning toward yours having a real hardware issue.  You might want to take it in and see if they'll replace your unit.

  • @edwinzamir....oh, yeah, Apple's great about that.  Not.  Supposedly the iPhone 5 and iPhone 4S were going to be released around 4 Oct, but now we find that 21 Oct the iPhone 4S will be released with no word on the iPhone 5.  Yep, that's consistency and communication.

    The point is that even with Apple owning virtually the whole process not even they can get it tight and clear.  Android can't even dream about it.  It's indemic to the species.

  • @tsrblke and @Sven, in case I wasn't clear earlier, the LED access is now there in Mango.  Even in the Beta 2.  I've got two different apps, straight from the Marketplace, the use the LED.  If I had any complaint about them over the HTC app is that I notice that the LED ever-so-slightly blinks while it's on.  It's not very obvious, but when it's the only light in the room you can detect it...at least on my Focus.  I'm thinking that how it works with those apps is that continually cycles the light instead of just turning it on.  Again, might be my Focus.  Or, it might have to do with the fact I'm running the Beta 2.  Someone with a different device running Mango would have to chime in to say if they notice this, too.  But it's STILL great to have it.

  • @Eric Hautala: Thanks for including the link to the Where's My Update? table. Could the table be updated to include the Mango column with build number? The information that's on it now is old and can be removed.

  • @Sven....the answer to your question: Homebrew.  The folks over on XDA figured out how to port it.  I ran my Focus unlocked for some time in order to get apps on it that simply weren't available in the Marketplace.  I totally agree that something as basic as the LED flashlight should have been common place.  The fact that the app worked quite well on the Focus (and other devices, as I learned) tells me that, API availability or not, the capability existed and could have been implemented by nearly all OEMs.  Shame on them for not.  Of course, the deluge of LED-based flashlight apps are now hitting the Marketplace with Mango being in the wild.  Even the original, screen-only flashlight app I had got updated with the LED capability.  Sweet.

    And, @tsrblke, I completely agree on who the target market is, at least for the immediate term.  I'm just saying that saying "all current devices are rolling out Mango tomorrow" and/or "you can order a WP7.5 device tomorrow" isn't necessarily going to sway your average consumer.  As we are reading, it looks like most of the new devices won't even be available until October.  I certainly wouldn't expect any sitting on a display shelf at the local carrier until then.  When I asked my local AT&T store about the new devices their response was, "We haven't heard anything about new devices....but there's this cool Android phone...."    Now, agreed, if Microsoft were to SERIOUSLY step up the ad campaign, I think they could defuse SOME of the iPhone effect (which, according to reports just out, will NOT be out in Oct....it's the iPhone 4S that will be released).  But, based just on what I observe when simply watching customers at our AT&T store and talking with folks who have either recently switched to a smartphone or upgraded, most already have in mind which platform they want, it just comes down the the specific device.  If they don't already know about WP7 and the salesperson refuses to walk them through one, there's not much to pursuade them after they walk in.  If I was a salesperson the thing I'd do for someon looking to get a smartphone for the first time is ask them what they think they'd like to do with it, then I'd show them the best of the WP7 devices I had, the best Android and the latest iPhone.  I'd share strengths and weaknesses and let them play with each.  Personally, I think that is the best sales pitch for WP7, but we all know most salespeople have agendas.   But I just don't see a couple of weeks making a huge difference.  We have the holidays coming up, so I think that's one target period that everything need to be out for, and then the other is when people's contracts are up.

  • "Again, you brought up "cutting edge" hardware.  WP7 doesn't need cutting edge.". I am sorry but this simply's not true. Sure wp7 is smooth as hell on homescreen and native hub's. But when you go to 3rd party when i compare for instance Twitter Android is 2 seconds vs 7 seconds on wp7 with similar hardware. There are several advantages, speed loading on apps. I want to compare the 3rd party app loading samsung sII and samsung wp7.

    Besides, its not just that. wp7 on the new devices has Adreno 205. That means 720p camera vs 1080p on Android high-end. etc... etc... just compare all the specs on Android high-end vs the new high-end wp7. Things like camera capacity, 3D, front camera resolution, etc, etc...

    Iphone 5 will have dual-core you will see the performance advantage over IPhone4. If IPhone 4 is really fast and optimized the i5 will be more. I know wp7 will have as soon as they have ready, but just dont say that it's not important. Everything counts.

    Besides i dont think that you say you cant compare iphone with wp7 updates... Wrong, you must. In the end is the end-user-experience. To the user they DONT care if Apple hardware is from them or not. Of course wp7 has the advantage of multi-form hardware. So there is good and bad. I prefer wp7 approach, but everything counts.

    But for sure you cant say that you cant compare just because IPhone own it. By that logic you cant compare wp7 smootness or Android lagginess, because wp7 has very restricting hardware requirements. In the end, its the final product that counts.

  • Sven
    54 Posts

    @wqwalter  Have you hooked up your device, gone into device manager, and blown away the USB device that it says it doesn't understand. I had a similar issue a few weeks back and I think that is how I resolved it. Made the PC think it was a brand new device and forced it to reacquire the driver(s). Sometimes it seems that using another port helps, but others it seems the PC remembers it doesn't know what that thing is.

  • Sven
    54 Posts

    @tsrblke I suppose I could do that, unlock the Focus. Have a developer license so I could play with Mango, but did that on my HD7. (Flashlight still works BTW). I wouldn't know how to get the bits from the HTC store though. Sort of surprised it works, as I had heard that the flash, or lack thereof, was an OEM choice, and hence the hardware interface and drivers wouldn't neccesarily be compatible.

  • I dislike Android, Symbian OS, iOS, BlackBerry OS but if windows follows if slow never gonna reach these OSes,, apple always gives date update its users think I'm boring of wp7 such point am about changing OS

  • wqwalter
    10 Posts

    I have a Samsung Focus with the developer Mango Beta 2. It stopped being recognized as a valid USB device about a month ago. I have tried two different cables, I have four Focus phones, and two different computers and all the USB ports on the computer and I get the same error on all of them. I have also done a hard reset losing all my data and still no connection. Any ideas on how to get connected. I get a different message if I go into the phone utilities and switch to moden mode, but when I switch back to USB mode I get a device not recognized. I installed and reinstalled ZUNE 4.8? This prevents me from reverting back to the NODo image i saved and I guess it prevents going forward?

    Bill Walter

  • after all now we have to wait 1 or 2 weeks more !!!

  • I hate TMobile and Windows  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    @Sven

    I asked Scuba the same question some time ago ;).  I believe he said that he had unlocked his phone so he could sideload apps.  I'm sure he could tell you more about it.  Which makes you wonder why I posted right?

    Mostly to say: I agree whole heartedly.  We've been told somewhere I think that LED access is not on the list o' Mango improvements, and I'm saddened for that.  I used my surround as a flashlight quite a bit, I miss it with my Focus.  There's a wonder LED on there I feel just doesn't get enough use (I'm not enough of a picture person to feel I'm getting my best worth out of it.)

  • Sven
    54 Posts

    @scubadog2011 "But, true enough, HTC did the best with the "in-house" apps...which is why I had their flashlight app on my Focus ;)" Huh, what? How'd you do that. You are talking about the killer flashlight app that actually uses the lights (camera flash LEDs). Love that on my HD7, but am using a Focus on AT&T primarily. That flashlight method should be a baseline requirement ;)

  • tsrblke
    327 Posts

    @ScubaDog2011

    I want to address your smaller post on timing.

    Do I think that releasing after iOS5 will kill WP7: No (However, abbreviations will take a hit due to overuse in that sentence).

    BUT, the battle here (metaphorically) is for the middle people, those who haven't made up there minds.  And I'm not entirely sure it's for the people who are actively lookig either (if you know about Mango, you've done enough research into WP7, that iOS5 release won't likely knock you over the fence.)  BUT, there's a group of people who don't read this forum (gasp!) whose experience with WP7 (or WinMo for that matter) is sparse, who will walk into their Cellular store with a busted/outdated phone during this period, to whom the new (and awesome) features of Mango may sway them.

    There is a group of people considering buying a phone, but not yet sold on apple, to whom ads showing new Mango features may sway them.

    There is also a limited window in time to grab these people.  In part because once the media goes gaga over iOS5 and the iPhone 5 (even though we can be certain there won't be much innovative in it, there never is) that's what will fill the minds of people.  The anchor effect (en.wikipedia.org/.../Anchoring) begins to set in and people coalesce around the iPhone, merely because WP7 missed being the first thing they saw.

    So, does 2 weeks matter, probably not so much since the October 4 date is an announcement not a release, but being in stores before the release matters (to capture the first group I mentioned).  Hitting the ad space early (to capture the second group) is also important. (ads for a version of the OS not yet released won't do)  Ideally I'd like to see Mango hardware (the Focus2 for example) in stores at the latest with the launch of the iPhone 5 as well (because things like FFC are going to be dealbreakers).  But at the very least I think consumers need to see the full featured mango in ads and in stores ASAP.  (Let's face it, 7.1 needed some feature overhaul to appeal mass market.  7.5 has that feature work in it.  Consumers need to see it or they'll think WP7 doesn't qualify as a smartphone.)

  • Okay, @Nater, let me take a shot at that.  First, it doesn't necessarily have to be compared to anything, even though that's inevitably what will happen.  It can be "sweet and satisfying" in and of itself.  I'm of the opinion that the WP7 experience is different enough that this can be true.  But, considering the person who posted that seems to like the WP7 experience, the impression is that the sweetness is compared to the original release of WP7 or even NoDo.  And, as a user of Beta 2, I wholeheartedly agree.  Personally, I find it laughable that you even brought up RIM.  They are in a tailspin and I believe they will be a niche player--if they exist at all--before it's alls aid and done.  The new Crackberries are lame in comparison, as far as I'm concerned.  Also, you don't know what's even IN iPhone 5.  By what accounts I've seen so far it's a yawner---no substantive difference in hardware, not a lot being bragged about in OS improvements.  Heck, they're releaseing an iPhone 4S, for pity's sake.  So, I believe only the fanboys will actually pretend that the iPhone 5 is all that big a deal.  Obviously, people will flock in droves to get one because they are mindless lemmings, but that's another discussion for another forum.

    You clearly take issue with Microsoft's choice of update rhythm.  I don't think many of us would disagree there.  However, you can't show me where the other platforms really do this that much better.  Android, when it comes to ANY updates, is an unqualified hot mess.  You can't make a case that they do it well at all.  iOS only does it better because they have one flipping device.  They own, top to bottom, the full deal.  I find it insulting that you even compare the two.  Complain about Microsoft's update process within the context of itself, not the other platforms.  Now, you seem to have a very simplistic view of how an OS, particularly one this new, is updated.  Did it ever occur to you that there may be certain things a "irreducable complexity"?  In other words, have you considered that in order to fix certain things it might open a can of worms and a cascade of dependencies that programmers would be forced to fix as well?  It may not be so easy as just picking out a piece of code and changing it to do or not do something.  Finally, what about ALL YOU PEOPLE who insist that Microsoft "fix this or that" or "add this or that".  Everyone wants these things immediately.  So, what is it the Microsoft is supposed to do?  Just pump out a new feature or fix every couple of weeks just to satisfy different customers?  Did you forget that the OEMS AND THE CARRIERS are huge players in the process?  Easily half of the delays are caused by them.  You mentioned the 7392 update (which I never got, either).  I think it should be obvious to most that because the update process is so drawn out becaue of the OEM and carrier parts, that even that single fix, by the time Microsoft got it worked out with Samsung, would have taken far too long to roll out with Mango right on its heals.  I happen to believe that as Microsoft, the OEMs and the carriers do this more, the process will get smoother and faster.  I also think that the Mango release will give us some indication if all the players are starting to get the hang of this or not.  So, as far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out.

    As for the Marketplace, I've not seen any of the problems you are talking about.  And, again, you go on to trot out the same list of tired complaints about 1.0 of WP7.  That's water long under the bridge, stuff that we've all complained about, and stuff that Microsoft largely has addressed across NoDo and now Mango. Then you actually went on to complain about hardware-specific issues!  That just amazes me!  It's not Microsoft's fault if HTC or LG or Samsung poorly executes a piece of hardware.  I get really sick of people placing blame where it doesn't belong.  That's intellectually lazy.  Guess what, folks, when you demand hardware differentiation, then you get what OEMs give you.  I can point you to no end of forums where people complain about the very same issues with Android phones.  Don't hear so much of that with iPhone?  Darn right....they have one piece of hardware to deal with, one OEM and, until this, only one carrier.  Oh, yeah, that's fair comparison.  As for my Samsung Focus, I have the expandable memory, a better screen, awesome sound (even over my Jawbone earpiece) and none of the issues you complain about.  Hmm.  And with Mango it's even more impressive.  So, do we want differentiation in hardware or not?  There are trade-offs that we have to deal with.  Android users certainly do.

    As for your issue about selling new phone, I have to admit I didn't understand what you were trying to say.  Microsoft doesn't sell phones.  OEMs and carriers sell phones.  Unlike Apple, who IS selling a phone, Microsoft doesn't have a "Microsoft Phone".  They don't need to sell anything other than the licensing of their OS.  It's totally up to the OEMs to come up with new devices.  Clearly, with all the back and forth going on, and the impending release of Mango, Microsoft is NOT shunning early adopters.  On the flipside, I seem to hear a lot of whing about "we need new hardware" and "we want dual core".  Which is just annoying, in my opinion.  It's the OEMs.  And most of those people just can't get it through their heads (influenced, no doubt, by the mind-numbed robots adopting Android) that WP7 doesn't need as cutting edge hardware as Android does.  It just doesn't.  Now, true enough, there are certain hardware features that many of us have been wanting that DO make a difference--front facing cameras, gyros, that sort of thing.  And we're clearly seeing that coming up (Titan, Focus S for instance).  

    Back to the laggy update cycle, Android users are STILL dissatisfied with the laggy and VERY fragmented update cycle.  Nothing's going to change there.  At least WE have a chance to see this improve over time---practice makes perfect.  But the fragmentation is innate to the Android platform.  And Microsoft has made NOTHING of Samsung.  What a wild bit of hyperboli to say Samsung has 50 variants of a phone.  Again, intellectually lazy.  The issue I'm sure you're referring to is 100% on Samsung.  That OEM jacked with the specs without telling Microsoft (no doubt assuming that it wasn't significant enough to make a difference....bad assumption).  You then went on, again, to bring up NoDo and what should have been in WP7 at the start.  Water under the bridge.  NoDo was a minor update, as far as features go, but it wasn't just about cut & paste---a feature that was very important to me.  It was also the first substantive test of the update process, and so was valuable as a learning tool.

    As for the hardware, you paid for it, right?  Did you not know what you were buying?  Seriously? Did you not research the hardware before hand?  I know I did---extensively.  I got the Focus for very specific hardware reasons.  I knew the OS would be consistent across devices, so it was all about the hardware for me....namely, expandable memory and the Super AMOLED screen.  Again, you brought up "cutting edge" hardware.  WP7 doesn't need cutting edge.  And my Focus didn't cost as much as my wife's iPhone 4.  It outperforms her iPhone 4.  I've already had to completely reload her phone from scratch (including the OS).  Have I had to do that with my Focus?  Nope.

    I find it humorous that you think the Android community isn't willing to bend over for that platform.  They do it OVER AND OVER.  Look at how many Android phones are sold.  I know a number of people who swap out Android phones almost every year, sometimes sooner.  It's ridiculous, especially given how expensive some of those are.  When I ask why, I get answer varying from "I wanted the latest version of the OS" (oh, so their update process is that good, huh?) to "I wanted the latest hardware" (oh, so Android performance is that great, huh?) to "I dunno, it just looks so much cooler" (oh, so you're a shallow consumer, huh?).

    Having said all that, I'm not excusing the mistakes that Microsoft has made in WP7.  I'm not giving them a pass on what a lot of us customers would consider poor choices.  I happen to believe Microsoft SHOULD find a way to trim down the size of updates and do them more frequently---I just doubt OEMs & carriers will play.  But I'm also not about to blame them for things that fall squarely on the shoulders of carriers or OEMs.  And I'm not going to discout that for every one of you complaining about one thing I can find three others complaining about the exact opposite of what your issue is.  I don't know how a company negotiates that kind of a consumer minefield.  You mentioned "mindshare"....well, you can look in most forums and see there IS no such thing as a mindshare.  There are as many complaints and opinions as there are individuals.  What you find as a weakness in the platform is quite possible what I or others find is a strength.

  • Sheeds
    205 Posts

    Hey Nater,

    I can't comment for your WP7 experience mate.  As for my post, since you referenced nothing but the closing statement I'll assume you saw that it was a contextual post, contrasting the NoDo deployment and comparing where we are today on the cusp of the Mango Deployment for those unhappy at rumoured release dates not eventuating.

    I have been running the Mango Beta2 refresh for weeks.  On this basis, along with the hope of a) additional carrier approved and OS supported new features (eg Wifi sharing/Tethering) and b) MS expanded Zune Announcements (Zune Pass for Australia) - that I made my closing comment.

    I'm not even going to go down the specs path apart from to say Gen 2 devices are about to hi the market with updated specs if you need them, and incremental improvements in speed, memory management etc that have come with NoDo and Mango on Gen1 handsets are welcome pluses.

    Can MS improve the push of bug fixes, device specific problem rectifications (eg Samsung devices and the security certificate) - of course.  "Show Stopping Bugs" pre-NoDo may have again be your specific experience - however I am confident it was not the majority's - or the forums, message boards and bloggersphere would have been calling the product dead before it was even given a chance to show.

    I own a Samsung Focus (LOVE THIS PHONE) being used in Australia with premium Carrier Telstra.  Reception, Sound, SMS capability....have all been fine since pre--NoDo.  On the OEM front, MS must shoulder ultimate responsibility for the update experience of course - it's their OS.  However before you champion Samsung - remember that Smasung went and included microSD memory expansion in direct contravention of the WP7 MS design specs and approvals - and then they changed memory suppliers half-way through producing the same model.  Much of the issues with Samsung handsets and updates can be traced back to these root factors.

    As a WP7 enthusiast (and blogger) am I happy that MS has made mistakes in their WP7 platform to date - of course not.  Is there evidence to date that MS have learn't from said mistakes and are trying to avoid repeating them, and deliver a more satisfying WP7 experience to their customers - YES, I think there is.  Are MS in WP7 for the long term = YES, they currently have a total of 116 worldwide WP MS jobs advertised, and the world's (outside of US) largest handset maker about to commence their WP7 only product focus.

    Throw in some decent Marketing, Promotion and true "Selling" of WP7 and 2012 is likely to be a huge year.

    :)

  • Thanks for the update.   I hope that the update rolls out to everyone in a matter of two or three weeks (at most)  and not months.  I'm interested in seeing how updates after this point are handled -- will there be minor updates on a quarterly (or better) pace,  and will all phones get those updates, or will some be left behind like the Focus 1.3 on AT&T?  

    I'm also interested in finding how out long the original phones will be supported. WIll updates for those phone be stopped in a year, or will updates continue for more than two years after the device came out?

    It's the answer to all of these questions that will determine whether or not Windows Phone is the platform for me on an ongoing basis.

    I'm hopeful for the improved IE9 (some of the mobile sites I visit don't work in the current IE) and a working visual voicemail (I read that not everyone will get this... I hope that is not the case),

  • @Kenny Rawlins, I have to say I agree with you on both counts on the Focus.  Up to this point, I still think the Focus is the flagship.  But, true enough, HTC did the best with the "in-house" apps...which is why I had their flashlight app on my Focus ;)

  • @Hawk, you've really not shown how there's a benefit or danger in the timing of the release.  Cutting into market share isn't really a player.  I defy anyone to show me how a week or two is going to make any difference at all.  I don't think a single person is going to sit out there saying "If M$ doesn't release Mango tomorrow, I'm going to go buy an iPhone".  I'm sorry, I just don't see the market behaving like that.  They will stand in line for DAYS to get an iPhone 5, all other phone platforms be damned.  It's just not that volatile a market.  If someone really is on the fence, and they really do want to consider a different platform, they'll wait to see a WP7 device.  For those who already have a WP7 device, I think they've already made up their minds if they are going to jump ship or hand with the platform, delays or not.  I waited in line waiting for our AT&T store to open in order to be the first person to grab a WP7 device.  And there's nothing on this earth that will convince me any Android phone or iPhone is even close to the performance and experience of WP7.  For the rest of the masses, they'll buy whatever catches their fancy at the moment if it's at the right price---marketing and peer pressue, I'm convinced, rule the day.  Marketing is Microsoft's weakest point, not the OS.

  • be05x5
    4 Posts

    I must say that Windows phone is the best new product that Microsoft has come out with which had a positive effect on my tech experience. Microsoft, having a reputation (of recent years and offcourse in my own opinion) for producing buggy software, with Windows phone 7 completely took me by surprise. This OS is as good as Apple's(I would even say overall better) and 2 times better than Android OS. Great Job Windows Phone team.