Happy New Year, everyone. Today I wanted to briefly tell you about a new Windows Phone update we’ve started to roll out. I also wanted to let you know about some update-related changes coming on the Windows Phone blog and website.
This week we started to make a new Windows Phone update —8107—available to many Windows Phone customers. The update, available to all carriers that request it, is part of our ongoing maintenance of Windows Phone. For more details on what’s included, check out Update History on the Windows Phone website.
In the months ahead, we’ll continue to send out firmware and maintenance updates as needed. These will be available across the globe—although not everybody will receive or require them. It depends on your country, carrier, and phone model. But remember that you’ll never have to guess when a Windows Phone update is waiting: Just watch for the pop up notification on your device.
There are also a few changes on the way for the blog and website. As we continue our growth, we won’t be individually detailing country, model, and carrier details on the Where’s My Phone Update? site any longer. And instead of my weekly blog posts, the official Windows Phone website will be the primary place for news and information about our updates, just as Microsoft Answers is there for your support questions.
Looking back at 2011, we enacted many behind-the-scenes tweaks and improvements to the update process itself. With your help, the process has matured and will continue to do so. I can’t emphasize enough how much everyone here appreciates your incredible passion and support for Windows Phone. We love this phone and take your feedback and comments very seriously. We listen and want to know what’s on your mind—whether it’s via our blogs, Twitter, Facebook, or the Windows Phone Suggestion Box.
Again, Happy New Year and thank you for being a part of Windows Phone.
Eric Hautala, General Manager, Customer Experience Engineering
I finally got the 8107 update for my phone!
Notification Time: 7/24/2012, 7:17 PM
Tao of Badass: Women are as sexual (if not more sexual) than guys are. Most of the time, this "turbo" make-out session never happens, because so many guys are afraid to go for it. taoofbadassdating.blogspot.com/.../are-you-average-looking-guy-find-out.html And when this doesn't happen, the girls end up going home alone or worse.. staying being kind of mean to a lot of guys in the bar/being resentful and angry because no one's approaching them.
If i have instaled Silverlight why i can't see te video in IE9, but run well in Chrome?
Tao of Badass: Women are as sexual (if not more sexual) than guys are. Most of the time, this "turbo" make-out session never happens, because so many guys are afraid to go for it. <a href="http://taoofbadassdating.blogspot.com">tao of badass<'a> And when this doesn't happen, the girls end up going home alone or worse.. staying being kind of mean to a lot of guys in the bar/being resentful and angry because no one's approaching them.
Tao of Badass Review: www.thetaoofbadass-reviews.com/tao-of-badass-review
What I want you to do is practice this approach. Maybe go for a minute or two at first, and then get to where you can do this in about 40 (or even 30) seconds.
You won't use this tactic all the time. But when the opportunity is right, it's really good to have this in your seduction arsenal. You want to make sure that you have the right kind of tools for the job, so to speak.
Whenever you see a girl who's in that state and ready to be seduced, if you beat around the bush, engage in small talk or generally waste time, she'll be turned off and you've lost a golden seduction opportunity.
I cannot understand why I can't have the keyboard fix. What value does AT&T add in supplying this? Is there a way to force the update like there was for Mango? It's now four and half months since you released it to AT&T. Do I have to switch carriers to get the fix?
Microsoft continues to send out software as if the business channel through which it reaches its users is one where we work for the business channel (i.e. our employers who buy Windows licenses for Windows and Office). In a workplace scenario, yes Microsoft, yes. Our employers are your customers.
But here, now, with mobile, with Windows Phone, get this through your old, archaic brains:
THE CARRIERS ARE NOT YOUR CUSTOMERS! WE ARE!!!
"The carriers can only ever make things worse"
AT&T is ruining your chance for Windows Phone to be a success. The WP is an awesome product...elegant, simple, intuitive. Of course, when my keyboard disappears I want to throw it against the wall as hard as I can. And, I just might do that the day my contract with AT&T ends.
I can't believe you have lost control of your product. What a huge, huge mistake.
I was really excited about Windows Phone when it first came out and love my Samsung Focus more than I did my iPhone. But if the carriers (especially AT&T) will not support their customers by providing timely updates, Microsoft needs to step up and take ownership of their product. If Windows Phone users cannot upgrade their devices, you will never develop the user base needed to compete with Android, much less iPhone. It's already evident that Microsoft can push their updates directly to the users, the only question is will they.
I called AT&T yesterday about the 8107. What a joke.... Call HTC, call MS... We don't know anything, we have no information. Give me a break.
MICROSOFT - IF YOU WANT LOYAL WINDOWS PHONE USES THEN TAKE CARE OF US!!!! or at least talk to us and let us know what is going on. You certainly are *big* enough to leverage the carriers on our behalf.
well now down with the carriers I OWN my phone and with some time on the web and a lot of reading my phone is up to date it was at " 7720 " when i got it and now it is at this update of " 8107 " had to get it unlock first but every phone i have and do own is unlock and open to use as when i buy a any thing it belongs to me and and will work as the software is made to be ran so to you all i say don't wait for the carrier as they are not going to make any thing from your phone just a new so you and i know this .
I recently purchased Samsung Omnia W. Everything is fine but I am unable to configure Outlook in my phone even with the correct settings. Is anyone else facing the same issue? Is this a device problem or a network problem or Microsoft problem? Other folks with Android and IOS are able to configure Outlook on their phone like a charm. But why does not Microsoft allow its own Outlook to work on a Windows device. Somebody, please comment/assist urgently. Thanks.
I want to know what the status is for the 8107 update is for AT&T. Most importantly, I want both Microsoft and AT&T to treat their customers with respect instead of being given a dose of lies or the silent treatment, or both.
Been more than 2 months of waiting.... n still no update to 8107. Will other future updates be also the same way? If its going to be like that in the future as well then I am leaving this n going for a Nexus. Windows 7 gets the update independent of devices and why cant the phones?
What is the ETA for AT&T releasing the latest update?
Zune has an update method built into it. I just don't understand why I'm still dealing with the keyboard issue!
Its been 2 months since you released Update 7.10.8107.79. Which is fixing crazy keyboard issue (aka disappearing keyboard). I have a almost perfect HTC Titan on AT&T network, and I have been victim of this bug. So far AT&T has not released the update. When contacted I got this response
"I apologize for any frustration this has caused. <strong>After reviewing your question, if there is an update for the software issue you described, we have not been informed of the update available.</strong> If there is one released it has to be approved by AT&T to make sure that it functions correctly on our network. I apologize but there has not been an ETA on when the software update will be released."
So do you (Microsoft WP team) have any ETA on when you will inform AT&T about the update?
Keyboard still disappearing. ETFing T-Mobile, throwing my HD7 in the trash, and moving to AT&T/iPhone next month. This platform isn't worth the effort anymore. Sorry.
It's ironic that the keyboard they raved about prior to release is so hopelessly broken for so many people right now, Lol. Not only does the keyboard randomly (often) disappear, but accuracy is absolutely terrible. It's useless as a communication device in this state, especially for someone like me who does 90% of his communication on Social Networks, IM, SMS, and email from his mobile phone.
I am looking forward to the Migration, since I actually use my iTouch more than my Windows Phone, now. The HD7 has become a huge (pun intended) burden on me at this point.
Can you imagine MS releasing a security patch for Windows 7, and Comcast dragging their feet to let it through? That's what this is like.
Saw this in the wpcentral forums. I wonder if it will come true. I guess we'll see where everyone on AT&T is in March.
And Im out. Ive been a huge supporter of WP 7.5 but Im still stuck on 7720 (Samsung Focus S, AT&T) and the disappearing keyboard issues is getting really annoying. So, to help my annoyed stance MS comes out with this bunch of poo. Now I know full well when my phone will get updated- never. The Samsung Galaxy Note is coming out tomorrow and Im pre-ordering and not looking back. Yes, android is fragmented as well, but at least there is a possibility of getting any updates with zip files. You are truly terrible at this game MS. Btw, why do you consistently talk hype about a product we cant have for months and months? Apple says, here it is, order it in a week. Whats hard about that? You announce it, we wait, it finally comes and is already last weeks (read months) news. MS is just doing a terrible job on too many fronts to keep me in this war. Like I said, Im out.
I'm in Redmond, WA, a couple miles away from Microsoft, where I worked for almost 20 years. I've had an HTC-HD7 through T-Mobile since nearly day one. I dev and test for the phone via my own company. And I'm still on Mango 7720, didn't see 7740 and T-Mobile is still hemhawing about 8107. If MS can line up carriers to support one OS and one design set (required buttons, etc.) then they can line up carriers to get all onto the same OS version within a month. I've trumpeted a lot to my kids et al that WP7 is the way to go (not soo suprising I guess). The UI is clearly superior. The support has not been so, nor has the market support (except for a couple really cool ads that've been lost in the torrent that is Apple and Google marketing). We all need to tell MS to go all in on this, from Balmer on down, staring yesterday.
What else is there to say, I was seriously considering jumping in post mango, burnt on windows mobile once, not again now, the ATT mindset remains, wonder who is getting the $$ for the decision to abandon these buyers to force them to buy new phones (iPhones), churn is good I guess.
I've been using the Kingston Class 4 card with no issues at all. I just can't get past loving the 40GB of total storage on this device. The only reason I'll get one of the newer devices at this point is if I make an unexpected $500 or so. If that happens, I'll likely get the Nokia Lumia 900 off-contract just to see how impressive everything else is on it. It won't be able to be my everyday use device, however.
@ScubaDog2011, what 32GB card? I was using one from SanDisk, but then it started to get a weird resetting all the time. I ended up switching to a 16GB Patriot card, which has been good so far. I could really use that extra space.. :(
Oh, okay. Well, I installed the 32GB card in mine, so I still have 8GB unused. I guess that's just one more reason I'm holding onto my Focus until one of the OEMs comes out with a device with more storage.
@ScubaDog2011, that's the same phone I have. I'm not sure how much memory I had at that time. I've had a lot of random issues when it gets below 1GB free..alarms not working at all (fun when you need it to wake you up for work...), lockups, sync failures,.. I think a lot of it was random music because I had to clear all the music off after a recent windows reinstall, and now I have 2 or 3 GB free. It's really annoying that there isn't a way to see how much the apps use either because I have no idea how much any of them are actually taking up...
@Korn1699, I've not run into that problem on the Focus version 1.3.
Has anyone else had issues with the alarm message disappearing too? I'm not sure if it could be related to the keyboard, but I have had a few times that the alarm goes off, I pull out my phone and the alarm popup over the lock screen disappears before I even press anything..
I signed up on this as well just to post about that update when it showed up on Zune. Thought it might bring some relief to you guys out there waiting for the update. :) We still wait for the Zune Music Pass to be available here!
@wp7Dave : I guess that's cuz phones here in India aren't locked to carriers except for iBlah and Blackberry's. So updates come as soon as manufacturers put them out (HTC in my Case). Besides there are atleast 5 -6 carriers in each state to choose from in each state. :D They cant command as much control like they do in the US I guess.
wow, i as well signed up just to leave this comment.
First thanks to everyone here, rodney, strider, tsr, scuba, and everyone else for being more communicative and helpful than microsoft themselves. They really should pay you guys and fire their support team. Just sayin....
I've had my unlocked, at&t branded, focus since last christmas , and have tried to help get the word out that this phone could be the iphone killer everyone has been waiting on provided more people know about it, i agreed with everyone that marketing really needed to be amped up, spend some of those extra dollars, ya know. But after this and have been checking this post since it came out HOPING someone at microsoft would even consider checking the comments, and i see they decided to just leave everyone out in the dark and we can figure this out ourselves.
This is really the best possible OS out there and the easiest to use but if it keeps going like this it will just become little more than a feature phone made by the makers of the most popular gaming system, most widely used PC OS, and the most versatile peice of equipment (kinect, even though i know they didn't create it) the've opend that up so well for developers. Microsoft know what needs to be done for their phone, the team just doesn;t seem to want to work hard or something.
Now, all that being said, i plugged in my phone just now, and i DO have this update, no thanks to them, but rather thanks to alex9620 and alexandru for giving me hope. If only microsoft could give us that same hope for this phone.
Thanks @Strider_Auz for making an attempt. No thanks Microsoft (Is this thing on?). Now would somebody that can something about this BLOODY RESPOND??????
Romania and India get the 8107 update beforeAT&T, the premiere carrier in the US. WTF??????
I guess my next phone will be the latest available Nexus or iPhone. The only way to guarantee I'll get at least two years of updates. So disappointed..... Still on 7720!
In Romania, this update has just arrived today.
After updating, my HTC Mozart has new features. :D
- the MAC address is not changing anymore after the phone is restarted;
- near the signal icon now i have either a 3G or HSPA connection icons;
- a new app is installed: Help and how to.
That's all for now. :D
I've got the update installed (last night) successfully on my HTC Mozart here in India. Plug in your phones and the update should pop up on your screens. My OS version is now 7.10.8107.79
The previous update gave tethering. 7740 that is!
We need a solution.
I imagine this is to do with concerns by carriers over untested updates. Perhaps we can alleviate those concerns by Microsoft making available all OS updates and indicating which have been approved/supported by which carriers. The updates are software in nature and it makes little sense for carriers to be the gatekeepers of such updates.
Microsoft: Are you going to respond to any of our concerns? It definitely doesn't look like it at this point. AT&T didn't respond to my polite questions, either.
OK - since >15% of my site visitors each month are from the US - I have decided to try and extend my Aussie "Where's my Bloody Update" page/resource to the US. Hence, I am seeking your States-side report to help me fill in the gaps on this new page on my site:
"Where's my Freakin' Update" US version: www.wpdownunder.com
Happy to keep this a live and current record of Carrier Updates Status for the US if you can help me. Contact details (Twitter/email) near the bottom of the page linked above.
@scubadog .... I agree, all my other emails work fine but Hotmail still doesnt forward correctly. I have read that it is indeed a Hotmail issue.
I still maintain though, that producing incompatible products is ridiculous in this day and age. MS encourage you to use Hotmail as your prime account. BS.
Still, I have the other problems I mentioned.
Also having an issue with my primary windows live email address on my phone - not receiving emails. I have a 2nd live address that works fine. Any thoughts?
I received an update notification just after midnight US EST on my HTC Trophy/VZW. Although the update was a "Success!", the OS version is still 7720? Isn't 7720 the 7.5/Mango version? At this point, I was at least expecting 7740.
@Beershark, I now think that the Hotmail forwarding issue is a Hotmail problem, not a WP7 problem. When I created my Windowslive account I did NOT use the Hotmail or Live address. I used my actual email address, hosted on my own server running from my house (I also host my own websites...I purchased the business class internet package from Time Warner). Now, because of this configuration, Hotmail is simply a relay for my email. So far, I can receive & forward emails with attachments, no issues. Well, ONE issue, that it takes longer for email to move since it has to bounce through my server from Microsoft's server. But it works. BTW, I have four email addresses from four different services (not Hotmail) that I have configured my Hotmail account to "also send and receive". So, really, Hotmail is simply acting as an aggragator for my various email addresses. This seems to give me the best of both worlds.
Your mileage may vary, however.
I got the update to 8107 today as many others report:
Really MS? Are you that clueless?! You're struggling to get a foothold in the market and are quickly trying to mature your mobile OS, which is moving in the right direction and you purposely set yourself back like this?! Do you really want this phone to fail or what? I just bought my focus s and even started working on developing apps. Just like the others I've got keyboard issues, gmail sync issues, and a slew of other missing features that I hope you're working on and now your taking away my ability to receive timely apps and increasing OS fragmentation. I am seriously going to rethink what I tell my friends and whether I purchase another Windows phone if this continues. Get a clue, put your foot down, find a way to push updates and advance your mobile OS as quickly as possible or you will start loosing much needed users and supporters!
I am running a Titan, unlocked on Orange UK and have updated the OS to 8107 thru CAB files... I couldnt wait / be bothered for Orange to release it thru Zune if at all.
Yes, keyboard bug is gone.
But I find the phone now slower and a bit more laggy. Sometime when I change to from the main screen / menu the tiles are empty for a few moments while it thinks.
Data connection also slow at times, have restarted the phone more in the last week than I have in months.
Also, was this update meant to fix the message forwarding bug on Hotmail (yes, I know the update says Exchange). Its doesnt for me, Big, BIG issue. There is a small workaround ... to forward just hit reply and delete the originators email address and add a new one. Problem is, any attachments are removed.
Why on earth does a MS Product (WP7) NOT support another MS Product (Hotmail)?
Microsoft why are you doing this? Why let carriers decide what updates?
I have a HTC HD7 and my phone can't even play music without it completely freezing and requiring me to remove the battery (which is no small feat with a HD7 and an otterbox). I love WP7 but this issue is driving me nuts and I can't get any response from Microsoft, my carrier Bell, or HTC.
I'm not even getting the update grid anymore about when updates should be released. It wasn't updated in about a month, but I don't see it there at all. It is really annoying that Microsoft STILL HASN'T ADDRESSED ANY OF THESE COMMENTS...
I am so depressed. I don't know how to live with a keyboard that keeps disappear. Please, Micrososft. I need the update. So do many others. Please... We're begging you. Have some mercy on us.....
Have to agree with some of the others who feel the comment that indicated the updates were up to the carrier to implement was disturbing. I feel any update pertaining to my phone should be available. I can understand a few carrier specific updates that would be only for certain carriers. I would think all operating system updates should be available. Can you clarify what you meant by "available to all carriers who request them"?
've about had it with Microsoft. I've been a loyal customer since the beginning with DOS both software and hardware. Last week my big dollar presentation mouse 8000 quit or I should say the tiny USB connector quit and luckily I had a real MS USB Bluetooth device to get it working. That's after my MS Elite combo mouse quit a few months ago.
I was one of the first in this area to get the Samsung Focus and it has been a hassle and a headache ever since. The screen goes blank intermittently when I make or receive a call so I can't turn on speaker or tap in numbers for voice mail. Updates are a hassle and I have never once got a phone or Zune reminder that an update is available. Had to force the Mango update. Zune seems more attuned to music and video collectors than people who use the phone for business or other uses. Now this....
I have to believe that MS is only half heartily supporting Windows Phone. Have they given up on it and intent on getting folks to dump it? It sure looks that way. No Outlook sync has thousands irate. Makes no sense, a Windows Phone without a complete Outlook sync unless you go through Windows Live and Hotmail cloud server. Oh my, c'mon Microsoft read these message boards, take it to the top management, and do something before you lose more customers and I just don't mean Windows Phone customers. I for one will be going to Android when my contract is up next year unless there is big change with MS supporting the Windows Phone.
We are very unhappy with this mess.
I've been a loyal windows user and developer for decades. I bought a windows phone on day 1. This is one of the most rediculous decisions Microsoft has ever made....and now they don't seem to even give a crap.
Microsft, have some balls and address this situation. Put people first and maybe people will put Microsoft first in the mobile OS world in the long run.
As predicted, this new development got no responses by Microsoft and was swept under the rug with all the flashy announcements from CES.
Now I'm finding posts by Paul Thurrott claiming not all devices will see Tango. Meanwhile, on Friday, I spent an hour on the phone with T-Mobile talking to two different representatives and then a supervisor, all three of whom adamantly claimed my HTC Radar 4G was using the "latest version of Windows Phone". When I told them there was at least one known revision (7740) and one just released revision (8107), I was scoffed at and they implied I didn't know what I was talking about.
I may never see 7740 or 8107. I deal with the disappearing keyboard issue almost daily. Now, if you believe Thurrott, there's questions about whether I'll see Tango, say nothing of Apollo. Wasn't the whole point, as ScubaDog has pointed out repeatedly, to provide a consistent user experience regardless of device or carrier?
I feel sold down the river by Microsoft. If I wanted to play games with my carrier for updates, or if I wanted to have to worry about writing code for multiple OEMs running multiple OS versions, I would have just gone with Android. Silly me for wanting regular updates during the contractual life of the device!
"Putting People First", my arse.
Its a samsung Focus 1.3 on at&t
I wouldn't really call it a hack because you aren't doing anything special to the phone.
All you do is download the send to cab program and the 7740 and 8107 updates
connect the phone to your pc and open zune
wait for it to sync once, completed
put the two updates in the folder with the batch file and then run the batch file
select b to make a backup and then it will go through and update like it would normally
with the white bar that goes across the screen
if something goes wrong you made a backup when you add the updates and you can just restore from there
for more info check here - www.mobiletechworld.com/.../windows-phone-7-build-7-10-8107-79-roll-out-started-get-it-now-and-update-manually
it was probably the easiest solution I have seen for installing updates or hell installing anything
@Krush, which phone do you have? And did you get the update the normal way or did you use the hack?
I have 8107 on my phone and it's definitely needed.
- it fixed my issue with gmail showing on the server of other devices after I deleted it frommy phone
- not only does the keyboard no longer disappear it seems to be working better as well
Those two issues alone is all I had at the moment but were really annoying
A few app updates lately have really had issues on my phone with Mango. It would REALLY be nice to have the latest update so that patched issues could be ruled out...
CAN"T DELETE RECENT ITEMS IN IE: I have been unable to find help on this issue anywhere else...On my Windows Phone (Samsung Focus), I can no longer delete recent items in my visited websites on Internet Explorer. It used to work fine and I have changed no settings. Do you have any idea why this would occur? I tried restarting phone, etc. Thanks, Mark
@Canesfan625 "Most of the current devices probably wont need tango." What? Why would you say that? I was told by our corporate Microsoft rep that ALL devices are getting Tango. If they are dropping support for all devices that And the keyboard fix? I'm glad YOU don't feel you need it but it's a bug that they have fixed and I don't feel that the carriers (who aren't using the phone) should dictate whether *I* need it or not. Microsoft refuses to respond because we are right and they know it.
Yeah, too bad that it doesn't seem to ring a bell in Redmond -or may be their bell is two updates behind too! LOL.
Isn't it interesting that this blog entry is three pages back and yet it's STILL the most active thread? That should tell someone something.
After weeks & weeks of researching what phone would be best for me & my biz I finally decided on the new Windows phone. I currently have HTC Droid & hate it. Always needs updates & fixes. I considered Blackberry but I don't see them lasting long & I don't like to waste money. Plus I need a good touchscreen. iOS is simple to use (I'm typing on iPod touch right now) but they're not the right solution. After reading the carriers would be responsible for updates I'm seriously thinking of going with iOS. Why would I spend several hundred dollars to trade my current problem for the same problem that costs a ton of money? And if MS thinks my money is chump change consider that I'm looking to get a tablet & ultrabook. I'll get iOS versions to be compatible with my new phone. Why not my pc as well? I reward companies with loyalty. So do most of the people I know. And I love gadgets. Future purchases of smart tv, appliances etc... And from what I'm reading looks like MS will be missing out on future purchases of all these things I've mentioned for others who commented on this blog. It appears MS has already shot itself in the foot & the phones aren't even available yet. I hope MS comes to it's senses soon. I will NOT buy another device that allows carriers to make the decisions what updates I'll get or when. Please come to your senses!!
@BuckeyeTico and @wp7Dave are both spot-on. Most of the updates to Slutdroid aren't full versions, but major point upgrades, for which Google gives them names. Okay, so Microsoft chooses only to give names to full version or version.5 upgrades and call everything else a "maintenance update". You say "toMAYto" and I say "toMAHto". It doesn't really matter. The desktop analogy is appropriate because quite a few things are changed with those updates and, as many find out later, they end up affecting performance or even function. Some of the changes are transparent, some are not. The exact same thing is true with these WP7 maintenance updates. In the case of 8107 it fixes a number of issues, at least one of which is being felt by almost all users: the disappearing keyboard. This is extremely important, based on Microsoft's own OFTEN-REGURGITATED standard: Consistent User Experience. Well, let's see, if some users have great keyboard operation on their devices and some do not, where is the vaunted consistency? Hmm? Yeah, I thought so.
Believe me, there aren't too many WP7 cheerleaders as big as me (right, @Kenny?). But I also call a spade a spade. So, here are the facts. 1) We were told that carriers could only skip one update at a time; 2) The Samsung Focus v1.3 devices are still sitting on 7720 even though BOTH 7740 AND 8107 are released by Microsoft, thus showing that #1 is no longer in play; 3) You now have at LEAST three different version of WP7 floating out there in OFFICIAL RELEASE: 7720, 7740, 8107----this is, by definition, fragmentation. I won't even go into the fact that there are other tiny pieces out there where some devices have carrier-specific updates that enable such FEATURES as WiFi hotspots. The end result? The user experience is NOT consistent from device to device or carrier to carrier. This is EXACTLY what Slutdroid users are faced with. The only difference you MIGHT argue is that there are some apps which work on one device but not another. I'm sure we could probably find an example or two of that in the WP7 ecosystem.
As I said before, if Microsoft can come out and categorically proclaim the "skip only one" rule is still in play, then the only substantive issue I'd be complaining about is why AT&T is telling me that there are NO updates in the works.
@Canesfan625 If you read my post, you will notice that the unbranded phones don't necessarily get updated directly from Zune. Jeff Wilcox, Microsoft Development Lead and creator of 4th and Mayor, does not have the latest release for his unlocked Lumia 800 (which bought online and imported from Europe) and was asking on Twitter if anyone else had it. Couldn't he just call someone at Microsoft to get the updates directly? You would think...
Someone asked Brandon Watson the question about how and when unlocked phones were updated and got a "I dunno" response (he said he'd have to ask someone else who he thought would know). He never followed up on Twitter from what I could tell.
Updates to the computer are completely relevant in terms of feasibility. The carrier is nothing more than a dumb pipe from a user's perspective. They hate it, but it's true. There is an SMS bug that can brick the SMS Hub which is paramount to a virus. We're not sure where that fix is, but once it's available it should roll out to everyone.
Just because you don't use background agents doesn't mean the 8107 fix is not relevant to your phone. There is more to it than that including some root certificate revocations. The fixes in 8107 are important enough (at least to the people who bother posting here) that we believe they should be released just as updates are to a computer (far more combinations of software and hardware, not to mention a much larger codebase than wp7).
Since Tango might not be released in the US and Gen 1 phones probably won't get Apollo we could be in the same boat as Android. That's what we are talking about here...being stuck on 7720 until we write out another check to our carrier.
@ Canesfan625 – Dude, stop defending the INDEFENSIBLE. Since you are so smart in defining FRAGMENTATION, then why don’t you find the ANTONYMS for it? And after you do that, go ahead and explain if this antonyms literally applies to the proposed (imposed, if I may) new update process for our WP7 devices. Some people…
This is a CRUCIAL update. You have no idea how pain it is to live with disappearing keyboard, and thousands of users need the update to fix the keyboard bug.
Your computer getting updates once a month is not exactly a relevant comparison, Your ISP having to approve anti virus updates makes no sense for a comparison, Fragmentation isn't caused because you have a update relative to your device and I didn't get that update. Fragmentation is you got Apollo and I didn't and now only 1/3 or 1/4 of devices can run current apps. Android, for example, you can unlock and root and now you have a large amount of custom roms thus leading to situations where you need X rom to run X app OR the situation where you had current gen phones shipping with cupcake/donut when 2.1 had been out and also the majority of Android devices won't see an update ever. That is fragmentation. Unbranded phones get updates directly from zune. MAJOR bug fixes are required to be pushed by Microsoft. It seems intermediate fixes(or devices specific ones) are optional BUT they will still get rolled into the next major update.
@Canesfan625, It's not a knee jerk reaction. It's what happens in a vacuum. We get no information from our carriers (AT&T, the Premier Carrier doesn't admit that 7740 or 8107 exist). Microsoft was providing information as to where the updates are in the deployment process and now they stopped. Having to wait 3 months (NoDo) for an update to a smart phone is ridiculous when my computer at home can get updates once a month. Imagine if your Internet provider needed to approve your anti-virus updates. We find out via this post that since Mango was released almost 4 months ago there have been two updates.
I saw the Verge interview with Belfiore and not one question about updates and the issue of fragmentation due to the lack of. The interviewer was more concerned about HD screens and price points.
Hell, one of the lead developers on Windows Phone hasn't received updates on his carrier unlocked phone and tweeted about it because he had no idea. If anyone would be running the latest bits it would be a developer. That's right, even if you bought a phone off contract, your carrier still gets to screw you.
The average phone user might now care, but we are the faithful. We are the ones who sell the phone, not the "really" commercials. We are the proponents and the developers of 3rd party apps.
And if you ever experienced the keyboard issue while typing an email or a text, you would appreciate our sentiment. Do yourself a favor and load the "Microsoft Facebook" app or any other application that uses background agents on your phone. Then you'll see what we're all talking about here.
You guys are kidding right? First of all not all of our phones will need every update. Most of the current devices probably wont need tango. I don't need the fix for the keyboard, etc. Found this too: www.windowsitpro.com/.../microsoft-windows-phone-software-update-policy-changed-141839
Seems to indicate this whole thing is a knee jerk reaction to a misunderstanding.
Microsoft, are you happy to let the carriers screw you in the ass?
After hundreds of comments, not a single word from Microsoft? Really??
Can someone from Microsoft please address our questions and concerns? Is that too much to ask?
...and if this is true, feel free to "walshie" your WP7 device. 8107 may be the last update our phones see:
To further the Fragmentation discussion:
There will be 2 different versions of Tango?
I better hope the response is strong and satisfying ...
I just spent an hour on a live-chat session with AT&T asking about the 8107 update. (I've got a Focus v1.3 with 7720). The support person checked every resource at her disposal but could only verify two things for me.
1. The new LTE Windows Phones have the 8107. It went from Microsoft to ATT to the LTE's. Just as the 'best case scenario' involving carrier distributed OS updates dictates.
2. The 8107 update for EVERY OTHER windows phone model on AT&T has NOT been pushed to them from Microsoft yet. So, assuming this techician (who had to get a manager to help check for the update, tried my IMEI number, etc) was being truthful and this goes for more carriers than just AT&T, the updates for only the top-of-the-line brand spanking new phones have been released from Microsoft. I was all ready to interrogate the heck out of AT&T (a little bit of frustrating, mixed with a dangerous amount of boredom), until I heard that they weren't the choke point for 8107's release.
Take this info for what it is. One customer talking to one technician and her manager, about an issue that is literally world-wide. But maybe this will help someone somehow.
One of the bad things is, some of us buy phones from places OTHER than our carriers. But we are still locked to the carrier's upgrade plans. For example, say someone from Australian buys the AT&T - HTC Surround for use on their own carrier. They are stuck waiting for AT&T thought it's not his carrier. Tack on the fact that 99% of the updates are not carrier specific, it makes no sense to punish end users this way. And as stated multiple times, many of us are 2 or 3 updates behind already and AT&T says there are no plans to push anymore updates to our phones (though they exist). Seriously, I'm not buying another Windows Phone and am telling everyone I encounter to do the same. I'll be sure to spread the news on the Windows Phone LinkedIn group I control as well.
Even Jeff Wilcox, one of the development leads on Windows Phone, tweeted that he doesn't have any updates for his unlocked Lumia 800 (on AT&T). Hopefully he will bring that up to someone internally. At the very least, phones that aren't carrier locked should get updates as available as they were not purchased through the carrier.
@Rodney, I'm sorry, my friend, but I saw absolutely NOTHING about carriers still being held to the "you can only skip one release" policy. The words were "available to all carriers that request". Now, as I said earlier in this thread, if Microsoft comes back out and states, without any room for misunderstanding or doubt, that the "skip one" rule still applies, then I'll be a little bit more accepting of the post that started this thread. Words MEAN things. And sometimes the folks at Microsoft--not known for being very communicative in the first place--do a crappy job of making a statement. However, I've already spoken to AT&T and they tell me there are no updates in the works for the Focus. If the "skip one" rule were in place there darn well SHOULD be an update in the works since I'm on 7720 and both 7740 and 8107 are out there. "Skip one" my aunt Nannie's fannie!
I have read elsewhere on the internet that this isn't a change at all with the existing approach i.e. carriers can block only the latest update; they then have to push it out when the next one comes along. Bearing in mind this is a bug fix, carriers would be a bit dim to not push it.
Would anyone at MSFT confirm/deny this statement please?
@Rodney: I'm 3 updates behind currently. Technically, that should be impossible. I didn't see where Microsoft said if a carrier skipped one that they'd be forced to provide the next. I DID see where if they skipped one, you'd get it *IF* they provided the next one. Let's face it, Windows Phone is about to become extremely fragmented which is exactly what the carriers want. It's sad that Microsoft is allowing it. It really will ruin the platform as a whole.
I agree with ousooner314 concerning the update process transparency.
Coming from an iPhone, and after having read Jobs'bio by Isaacson too (I encourage you to read it, if not already done...) this issue clearly shows the great advantage to control the whole process from hardware to software (update broadcast) and the next step... to carrier.
It's so simple to update an iPhone that the user even do not ask himself about, and that's a big point to keep the customer, to my mind.
Besides, the update information (Update 7.10.8107.79) is not available on french website as of today (january 11, 2012)... the last update mentioned is Update 7.10.7740.16.
Nonetheless, I'm really impressed by the great work achieved by windows phone team on this OS that offers a completely different approach of mobile OS vs iOS or Android!
This news is nothing new. This is what was promised a year ago from MS. We were told that carriers would be able to skip a maintenance update, but the next update would be mandatory... Quit your whining! WP still has the best update reputation to date. Better than Android, and iOS. Tell me why it's not, and I will set you strait with the quickness....???
So, uh, Eric.... You there? Seems like 232 negative replies to your post should prompt a response either from you or someone higher up at Microsoft. As you can see we like our Windows phones, and would also like to see them updated from time to time---without having to go through the wretched carriers. Is that asking too much?
WP7.5 is looking more like Android every day. Too many devices and now Microsoft is saying they can't keep up with all the devices and which update belongs to which phone. So you'll buy a phone today with Mango installed but 6 months from now, you may or may not get an update and you'll never know when you can get it because it's "up to the carrier". When you ask the carrier, they'll tell you it's up to the manufacturer of your phone or Microsoft.
No wonder Apple is kicking your butts! As soon as I my contract is up, I'm going back to Apple.
Here's a good article by Information Week. It seems not everyone is distracted by the lights of CES. Hopefully we'll see more of these and keep pressuring Bill Cox, Brandon Watson and Joe Belfiore on Twitter. Don't let them hide under Mary Jo Foley's skirt. It's not her job to be their PR machine. #wheresmyupdate
I am surprised that a follow-up post about this subject hasn't been written yet.
You need to write a very detailed post explaining exactly what is going to happen to the update process, instead of relying on Mary Jo to clear up the mess. Most of your customers today are early adopters who made a bet on this new plataform. If they end up feeling betrayed, all the positive buzz you are getting will be gone.
According to what I read, the team's reason for this change was that maintaining the site would be too difficult, given the increasing number of phones and carriers around the globe. Fair enough. That would be perfectly acceptable, if you weren't struggling behind with less than 5% of the market. When you have that much catching up to do, a bit more effort is required. You can't be just as good as the competition. You have to be better.
I'm still really excited about Windows Phone and I hope you succeed.
I just chatted with HTC here in Denmark to hear about when the update (8107) come to my Radar. The answers:
"The updates will be made available to a specific number of phones based on IMEI number.
You should receive the update soon. Unfortunately I can not say exactly when, but it's not an error that you have not received it yet. "
The agent writes further that I should get a notification on the phone when an update is available. BUT if it is parallel imported (like from Germany) it not certain I get a notification on the phone. For the agent writes:
"The phones are registered to the regions they are suitable to be sold in. Germany belongs to West Europe and Denmark belong to Scandinavia."
To find the IMEI number you must pretend that you call in and enter * # 06 #. So it appears. My phone is indeed from Germany said HTC based on my IMEI No.
I am very impressed with how nice HTC responded is and how quickly they responded.
So I hope the update comes soon. And actuallt it could turn out to be my advantage that my phone is German since Windows Phone is larger in Germany compared to Denmark - so maybe the update will pushed there before ;)
If I had known this was going to happen, I wouldn't get myself the HTC Radar too. The update is bloody important. Disappearing keyboard drives me crazy. I should have gotten myself iPhone 4S instead. But that's okay. I least I know what platform to choose in the future. Certainly not WP!!
I really can't say anything that ScubaDog hasn't already said more eloquently.
The sad reality is, after being burned by Windows CE and Windows Mobile, I was willing to take a chance on Windows Phone 7 *SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE* in the one or two month lead-up to WP7's release to market, Microsoft swore they had learned how necessary a seamless update system was for OS consistency and ease of development. The PR briefs made it sound as though Microsoft was taking the Apple methodology of owning OS updates for the same of user consistency and the promotion of development.
This has never been the case. Every update has been like pulling teeth. OEMs are able to halt updates with firmware issues and carriers get to decide when or if they're pushed. Now, this wording is such that carriers can just do NOTHING if they so choose. Pre-NoDo and NoDo was a hot mess, Mango went smoother but still had some bumps, and yet many of us haven't seen updates since. AT&T - the so-called "premier partner" - is the single worst offender, and yet you're rewarding their lousy behavior towards customers and the WP7 ecosystem with first dibs on all of the new WP7 devices in 2012 (with exception to the Lumia 710). Why would I even consider buying a Lumia 900 when it may NEVER see an update because AT&T just doesn't care enough?
I got an HTC Radar 4G in the first week of December 2011 after ditching AT&T and my old LG Quantum. It never really dawned on me to look at the phone update until recently. Like AT&T users, I appear to be stuck on 7720 with no updates found and no information available on any updates coming from T-Mobile. This system is now EXACTLY like Android. Microsoft makes updates to the OS and the carriers are free to ignore them, leveraging the lack of device updates for sales.
If I had known this was going to happen when I broke my AT&T contract back in December, it would have made my decision much easier. I would have skipped T-Mobile, skipped the HTC Radar 4G, and gotten an iPhone 4S from Sprint.
Honestly, the Zune software is a relic of the Zune player days and needs to be completely re-engineered. Do that, and you can take back the update process, making it identical to Windows Update. Instead, you just decide to drop the ball before CES, hoping people would be too enamored by flashy new gadgets to notice that you've gone back on your initial word of streamlining updates and made the system just like Android hell.
See? Just 27% market penetration worldwide for smartphones. Everyone else is doing fine with a feature.
Oh, and did I mention most wifi tablets with a mic can makes calls over wifi with some apps installed? Google Voice does texts all day long on one too.
It's quite simple really, guys. If you want to get serious backlash to the carriers and all the smartphone nonsense, just get rid of it and use a feature phone instead.Go one step further and make it a prepaid one.
Couple that with a wifi tablet or device. Although you would have to strongly consider Apple as this fragmented crap is not just exclusive to phones and carriers. A lot of manufacturers aren't updating their tablets either.Hoping people just buy new ones after plunking down serious cash just months ago on one. It's all one big money pit for consumers - don't play the game. it's a tough economy, finances are better suited towards taking care of other more pressing and important matters.
Microsoft is more busy looking good at CES rather than address the concerns of current users of Windows Phone. No reaction from them makes me believe that we are not their priority. Well, too bad... for them.
So I called AT&T this morning (I have an HTC Titan on rev. 7720). They told me it was not up to them but to HTC and gave me HTC's phone number. So I called HTC's customer service.
She had no clue where any update was and left me with the impression that she didn't care either.
Not a real happy customer, who feels like he is put first. I hope MS gets this fixed!
Unbelievable. I feel cheated; months left on my contract and I'm left with a phone that appears that'll never be updated - left in a software limbo: keyboard issues, no battery status and a slight unfinished feel to the OS.
Potentially a great OS that is now updated to an incomplete state. I accepted the early release crashes, accepting the future upgrades would arrive...
I chose Windows over the iPhone to gamble on something different, i felt MICROSOFT made that a reasonable gamble..
buying Android and enjoying the crashes and hoping for compatibility would have been safer.
With the benefit of hindsight, i wouldn't buy again, I'd follow the masses and buy Apple. Think again Microsoft, you're about to lose control of your software.as well.as customers. As my phone says (after the battery suddenly dies) GOODBYE.
219 comments and not one response from Microsoft.. :( It is stuff like this that pushes people to do what they had to do to get NoDo without waiting months for it..
When I read this article, like many I couldn’t believe my eyes.
I thought that the where’s my update was a very good thing: right in between Apple & Google update policy.
But, Microsoft is really losing it. The actual release is crippled with various issues (Exchange related for instance) that were not officially acknowledged; and the only solution is to hope that the career will be kind enough to provide the update within the upcoming 6 months. I feel quite sad for the IT team having to deal with those issues with no solution within their range.
The SMS reboot bug should definitely get disclosed when the patch is out… If the careers decide not to release it, it will get really funny
Maybe there's a reason Microsost is bringing it's mobile apps and platform to iOS and Android...
FREE OUR WINDOWS PHONE UPDATES!
Where's my update? I'm on 7740 and have the sms-keyboard bug! -And the reboot-bug!
Mindboggling. Microsoft is essentially trying really hard to hit 0% market share with its phones. And laughing at us fools who bought their phones. You guys have made enough missteps with your:
1) Browser strategy
2) OS strategy (Vista anyone?)
3) Phone strategy
4) Music player strategy
You are writing your own obituary by taking steps like these.
That's amazing! Not a single answer from the post writer on all of this comments. Can't believe it. Why do you allow for comments in the first place ?! If that's the way MS people deal with their users feedback I think wp7 really doomed. That's enough for me. I am switching back to android.