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Happy New Year, everyone. Today I wanted to briefly tell you about a new Windows Phone update we’ve started to roll out. I also wanted to let you know about some update-related changes coming on the Windows Phone blog and website.
This week we started to make a new Windows Phone update —8107—available to many Windows Phone customers. The update, available to all carriers that request it, is part of our ongoing maintenance of Windows Phone. For more details on what’s included, check out Update History on the Windows Phone website.
In the months ahead, we’ll continue to send out firmware and maintenance updates as needed. These will be available across the globe—although not everybody will receive or require them. It depends on your country, carrier, and phone model. But remember that you’ll never have to guess when a Windows Phone update is waiting: Just watch for the pop up notification on your device.
There are also a few changes on the way for the blog and website. As we continue our growth, we won’t be individually detailing country, model, and carrier details on the Where’s My Phone Update? site any longer. And instead of my weekly blog posts, the official Windows Phone website will be the primary place for news and information about our updates, just as Microsoft Answers is there for your support questions.
Looking back at 2011, we enacted many behind-the-scenes tweaks and improvements to the update process itself. With your help, the process has matured and will continue to do so. I can’t emphasize enough how much everyone here appreciates your incredible passion and support for Windows Phone. We love this phone and take your feedback and comments very seriously. We listen and want to know what’s on your mind—whether it’s via our blogs, Twitter, Facebook, or the Windows Phone Suggestion Box.
Again, Happy New Year and thank you for being a part of Windows Phone.
Eric Hautala, General Manager, Customer Experience Engineering
I can understand why this blog won't be used to convey updates any longer. However, the overall effort that you mentioned seems to take a step back from clear and transparent communication. I never fully understood how updates are deployed (how carriers play a role in it, and whether critical updates are guaranteed for every device), nor was it ever clearly explained. This makes the whole process even more convoluted, and may be off-putting for several users who have championed the OS so far. It would be nice if someone clearly explained the process of how, and why, only certain regions (and carriers) are able to push updates that seem relevant to everyone. Hope you guys have a great year!
Am I the only one who doesn't like the sound of "available to all carriers that request it"?
Seriously, why do you (MS) make it so hard to like your product?
You have the updates ready for every single device out there.
You could fix the carrier independent problems (you can't tell me, that the dissapearing keyboard bug must first be reproduced by carriers) of all your customer at once.
You have (by now) a well working update infrastucture.
And you really expect those lazy carrier support people (which love your product so much, because they are are selling so much </ironie>) to look out for your updates and reqest it for their customers?
Please don't make me regret buying a Windows Phone....
Thank you for the new update, but...
"The update, available to all carriers that request it..."
What does that mean for retail, unlocked devices?
Additional to my first post:
I'm just sick an tired of kicking my carriers ass in his support-communities each time an update comes out, so that he "request" it.
...uhh, what? a new update for which OS I hardly ever heard came out?....
Eric, please continue to update the "Where's my phone update" page. As a windows phone user, it lets me know a crucial piece of information: who to bug if I don't have an update. I know now, for example, that AT&T is responsible for me not getting the dissapearing keyboard fix for my HTC Titan, but without the "where's my phone update" page, I might be berating Microsoft on facebook, twitter and blogs.
Why is 7.10.8107.79 at carriers request? I thought every other version was mandatory, I never saw 7740.16 doubt I will see 8107.79.
The "every carrier that requests it" could be the single thing that drives me away from WIndows Phone. AT&T is the absolute worst carrier for updates which means as soon as you buy a phone from them, your experience will do nothing but get worse. Android fragmentation is awful. Looks like Windows Phone is truly trying to emulate Android. At least Apple was smart and took that power out of the hands of the carriers so everybody would have a good, consistent experience. Microsoft. This sucks. This absolutely sucks.
As a Microsoft partner that develops applications for Windows Phone, I have to protest this decision, and I will also speak to our contacts on the Microsoft Phone team. This is a mistake of major proportions. You entered your second year, customer satisfaction is at an all time high and increasing. Making a change to allow the carriers to request updates hurts the end users, the hardware OEMs and ultimately the developers (and partners) that build applications for your platform. We will be going to the way it was, wondering why certain devices dont work the same or run the apps properly only to find out the carrier didnt apply a specific update. Please change your mind.
"The update, available to all carriers that request it" This is not acceptable at all.
The open market LG Optimus 7 didn't get tethering and now people who have a branded Windows Phone can't be sure if it get's a critical update?!
Windows Phone is selling badly, I don't think supporting it is of high priority for carriers.
If this doesn't change I am really considering switching to iOS, I mean all MSFT apps will be on iOS sooner or later anyhow... So I'll just miss Metro.
Although extremely disappointing that the decision of updates is left to carriers, I do understand it somewhat. It must be incredibly expensive and time-consuming for the carriers to have to test and validate each update to ensure that it works with their network and services. I can't imagine the carriers can be *too* happy at being forced to do this by Microsoft.
However, I agree with the other sentiments here that leaving carriers to their own devices will inevitably mean that updates are applied few and far between. What would be interesting is whether the previous compromise in updates (that only one minor version can be optionally skipped, but then the next minor version update *must* be rolled out) still applies - is this still the case?
I suspect that, come a major release like "Mango", customer pressure will force carriers to roll out these bigger version updates...
I echo the sentiment, this is a HUGE step backwards in the update process. The popup notification has never worked for me unless I plug my phone to the pc. So, if I'm one of those people who normally don't sync with the pc, I'll never be notified (even though I have it set to notifiy me using the cellular network as well as the wifi one...).
We won't know were we are in the update patch cycle we are if we are tied with carrier x vs carrier y who is sending the update... do we really need to get the pitchforks and start badgering MS again vs the carrier??? I thought there were lessons learned from the whole NoDo update fiasco... how soon do we forget....
And, as one user being afflicted with the keyboard dissapearing bug, I really cannot wait to get the next update.... I should be back to monitor other websites to see if anyone in the US got it, vs coming to MS and get the info from your website.
So we've now been thrust into the same update/non-update Hell as Android users?
Somebody actually thought this was a good idea?
I can only assume this is part of Microsoft's inexplicable commitment to helping Apple sell as many iPhones as possible.
Really, why do you expect us to bother anymore?
Also, does this mean that if the carrier chooses to skip the 7740 update, they are obligated to send the next one (8107) or can they stil choose to skip that one too?
@mooreshelby You must be on AT&T. We're stuck at 7720. Welcome to fragmentation. I agree with those below, why would carriers request it when their goal is to sell you a new CURRENT, UP TO DATE PHONE? They certainly don't want us customers being happy with our old phone! Looks like it's time for XDA to step it up and take the carriers and Microsoft out of the picture as we did in the past. SO disappointed with Microsoft's cowering to the carriers. Especially a crappy carrier like AT&T.
My wife just purchased a Radar TODAY (1/6/12) because of how she couldn't get updates for her android phone and now you guys go and do something like this. It's like you guys take two steps forward then go a mile back! PLEASE don't do this. I've spent all of this time evangelizing to my friends and family about this great OS and how things are different and you guys go and do this. You guys are already NOT on most peoples radar and the few fans you already have you seem to want to alienate them as well. Are you guys really listening? I'd like to think there are actually humans,real people at MS that WANT their creations to succeed, but i'm starting to think otherwise.
I stand with you. I am still waiting for the internet sharing option. Seems like neither Microsoft nor LG care about us, the users, but only about the damn carriers.
Flash the Vodafone IT ROM, this way you get tethering + 8107.
I used the Vodafone Germany ROM and have tethering now, still waiting for 8107, on FB they've said it shouldn't be long, because they've already released it in Italy...
This is getting like Android, where you need a custom rom to have a better working device. Now we also get the fragmentation...
I can’t say anything that hasn’t already be said but include my voice in removing the carriers as the update gatekeeper.
While I like the fact you guys have figured out some bugs, this whole idea of letting the carriers decide updates and scheduling is simply ridiculous. I know, you want to sell your software to ODM's, who then sell to carriers. You guys need to own this entire process. You have a lab dedicated to testing devices with both software and firmware updates. Why you will not just own the entire process is beyond me.
I have said this in the past, and I will continue to say it until it's changed: Carriers are our mobile ISP's. That is it. They offer no value add, and are simply a means of being able to make/receive a phone call, and access data. In other words, just like how our ISP's are treated with our PC's at home or office.
You said that you and your team have learned from the NoDo mistakes. Mango was released in a fantastic manner. Now, with security and bug fix updates that may not reach end users who are affected by such bugs, will only officially get them IF THE CARRIER REQUESTS IT?? Seriously, this is one of the dumbest policies I have every heard.
can't +1 all the previous comments enough. However, am I the only one severely disturbed that the 8107 build doesn't have a fix for the SMS vulnerability whose only fix is a COMPLETE RESET of the phone????? If nothing else I expected this to have a fix in 7740, let alone 8107.
I'm on Verizon and we, too, are all stuck w/ ONE device and 7720 original-mango. I doubt we'll see 8107, so i'll just keep fighting my onscreen keyboard, and hoping that nobody sends me the SMS exploit.
Seems you have learned nothing and done nothing to improve the customer experience around updates. Still bowing to carriers allowing them to decide if I get a much needed bug fix regarding keyboard disappearing is unacceptable. I don't know who you claim to be listening to when it comes to listening to what your customers want but they are not the voices you should be listening to. I am speaking here now along with many others who do not agree the best process is to continue to allow carriers to dictate when my phone is updated especially when it comes to bug / security fixes. I did not buy an AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, or Verizon Phone. I bought a WIndows Phone. Just like people buy Iphones and Androids, etc. You are the underdog there and you need to be doing it better than everyone else to win. Otherwise you will remain at the bottom of the heap. That is exactly where you are now and where you will stay if you do not put a stop to this nonsense.
I too want to express my dismay at letting the carriers choose if they want to send out updates. The carriers do not want their customers to be happy with their phones past the term of their contract. Older phones won’t be updated and then platform will become fragmented. This is just what happened to Windows Mobile. Then developers will become dissatisfied. Then WP dies.
MS seems to be preparing for WP’s collapse as demonstrated by how they are porting their apps to the other platforms.
Microsoft, it’s not too late to save Windows Phone.
Just voicing my agreement to all the other comments. This is an awful move! The update process is already kinda poor, but the transparency is what makes be be able to live with it as it has been up til now.
Eric - you MUST have foreseen that your comments would provoke the reaction seen here. Why didn't you just a few more paragraphs to explain in a little more what the thinking behind this clearly retrograde step is?
Your earlier attempts to get carriers to push out updates at broadly the same time were absolutely right, but this 'carrier friendly, user unfriendly' move seems to make Charlie Kindel's comments bang on the money.
Are you deliberately making life easier for carriers so that they will view WP7 more positively?
The people have spoken! It looks like this update information is not being well received. The opinions expressed about the update process have to be taken seriously. IMHO, this is not the way I thought that updates were going to be like. As a matter of fact, I swear that we were promised that MS would insure that every phone would be updated, if needed or applies to specific devices, because they were going to control the process. I can go for the "requested by carrier" policy as long as it's more complicated than that. I hope that MS has some more guidelines that they have worked out with the carriers. The funny thing is that lately the disappearing keyboard issue seems to have gotten worse. I'm not going to pass judgment just yet, but I really need this update. My promise is that if I get the next two updates problem free, then I will forget about the whole update process issues all together and continue to use the process as a selling point for WP. Because I have gotten all of the available updates that apply to me and my usage, I have only the reason to stay neutral on this topic. Never the less, Is need this update because I cannot continue to deal with my keyboard dropping down. I will wait patiently, but it needs to be fixed very soon.
Also, maybe the communication is worded or perceived incorrectly. Does this mean that even if a particular device is faulty, that device may not be fixed if the carrier chooses to ignore the issue? Or is it more complicated like the carriers have to issue the update when they see that it is degrading the user experience? Or, based on the amount of complaints or users that are effected can a carrier deem this as a warranty issue and fix phones on a individual basis? Would explanation of update polices be mandatorily communicated by MS, the carrier, or the vendor? My point is that further elaboration on this new policy could possibly help to easy some minds... Or maybe it is what it is. Either way users should not just be left with that tidbit of information without further communication. I would like more defined facts before I pass judgment please.
Anyways, It's great news that a update may be on it's way, and that, well maybe for some, issues are being addressed in a timely manner. I have to say good job WP team on that front.
I am in awe at how dense you guys are. This is a horrific decision.
First of all, you obviously aren't taking the security of your users seriously. The latest update includes a security fix that very will could affect your users. The threat is real and yet you're leaving it up to carriers that inherently don't care about YOUR users enough to quickly release the patch. This update is already late and should've been released OTA at the same time the patch was released for Windows -- months ago.
Second, the other issues are very real. The "disappearing keyboard" bug affects users constantly. And yet, you don't seem to care. If you did care, you would be pushing these fixes to your users over the air. You are in a distant 4th place. If you want to catch up you not only need devices that people care about but you need to engender the trust of your users. These latest moves are firmly in the wrong direction.
Finally, I am just shocked at the change of direction. Pre-NoDo, you guys refused to tell users anything. We, and the tech press, complained loudly enough to get you to change course and the main outcome of that was the "where's my update" page. Have you already forgotten why that page exists? Back then our phones would notify us of available updates - that hasn't changed. It still doesn't provide me any information as to when my phones will receive the 8107 release. This fundamental problem that you have is unresolved. The reversal of transparency is frightening.
And what about that SMS/messaging bug that can basically brick my phone? When can we see that? What if it makes it out into the wild? Will you force carriers to release an update then? This situation is pathetic.
Thanks, you've just solidified my decision to ditch my Focus and get a Galaxy Nexus. WP7 updates may be better than Android updates on the whole, but if you're running a Nexus device Google's system trumps Microsoft's. At least Google will provide me an official update.zip that I can download directly from their servers the instant the update is available, giving me the power to sidestep carriers.
It's a bad move. A bug like the "disappearing keyboard" is not one which should be left to the carrier to decide if they have to deploy it.
Seriously, everyone needs the keyboard fix. What's with that "not everybody will receive or require them" c**p? If it requires hacking to just get updates straight from the source, why don't I just buy an Android device?
At least I get great superphone hardwares.
This is a bad move by Microsoft. Once a carrier locks you into a 2 year contract, what would their reason be for making sure their customers get the updates they want and need? The fragmentation on Android is awful, if this goes forward, Windows Phone will be in the same place.
So if our carrier never requests it, we have to live with a bug or missing features? Thats not a good way to treat your customers Microsoft!
I really wish Microsoft would just push the updates to the phones directly and by-pass the carriers like Apple does. This is really going to be bad for Windows Phone I fear.
Its not like everyone has money to pay contract termination fees left and right if their carrier isn't giving them updates. Microsoft needs to relook at this.
A well-deserved negative response to this change of policy.
JUST ONE QUESTION
As far as I understand carriers COULD ALWAYS block one update cycle , and that update is automatically pushed the next time a software update is released. .. has this changed and could the carriers now block the second update as well ?
Also, it may be ok with me if the carrier can choose to skip the maintenance update, as long as the next major, or "feature update is mandatory for the carrier to release, and it contains fixes for any preexisting issues.
Really disapointed. Microsoft has not learned anything. Next time I will think twice before buying a product.
A. Not only still you Customer Experience guys refer to updates with numbers like 8107, or 7.10.8107, "mango" "tango" "pango" but haven't fixed the whole mess around Windows Phone 7.5 which is 7.10 or go figure to explain to a person who doesn't care, and yet so far you think you do good. Apple has come to something simple. iOS the name and updates are 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 1.4, 1.5 regardless of carriers. Sure you have to apply HW specific updates, sure you can alter the 1.2 or 1.3 depending on carrier settings, but for the GOD sake it's plain SIMPLE.
B. After that you release an update without Updating the History Update Page, without anouncing it elsewhere even for 1-2 days, or hours! What kind of mess is this? You don't even know how to play marketing on a simple update. Like be ready, document the changes and throw it online simultaneously saying Windows phone 7.5.3 is no ready to download. Plug your Zune Device. HOW hard is this ? HOW hard is this ?
C. Instead of "releasing" an update you make it a so CUSTOMER dissapointing scenario where buddies ask "hey dude I got an update last night!" and the other one replying... "come on dude, I haven't seen any updates for weeks" what kind of Customer experience is this?
D. Release the updates when you're ready. When you're so ready that the global switch just needs to be on to be available to everyone. HOW hard is this? Instead of releasing the 7740 in a manner of waves, just wait few weeks till it's been all tested on all carriers (the poor ones) and then say: It's Ready for ALL. HOW hard is this?
E. Release often, release early. I know it's some corny UNIX-like, apple-like fool strategy but hell it WORKS to the customers to be convinced that they are not alone! Someone is giving them love every-little and while. Yes, i wanna be fooled. Small updates, fixing glitches, while waiting for bigger updates.
I could carry on more, i'm just tired. I'm really tired in investing to a platform who seems to have not get the message of where the customer satisfaction is. I knew Microsoft was really bad on marketing, I know Apple is full of blatant lies, but guys, your way isn't working so far. If you can't convince us that you have the power and the knoledge to achieve what Apple achieves with only one product ( Software written for one product -iOS only for iphone, OSX only on macs- rather than software written for different products -Windows phone for WP OEM phones, Windows for OEM PC's- ) then why shall I invest in a platfrom thats too little too late?
Sorry for my bad english, ain't my mother language.Thank you.
Eric Hautala needs to revisit this post and make some clarifications. Nobody thinks this is a good idea. Besides on here, people are complaining on Twitter, The Verge, WMPoweruser, etc..
Yes, now that you mention it this has always been the case. You're right, nothing new here..Its like I said above, so lets move on...Next topic please!
What about updates for unbranded phones? I hope this question will not get censored too...
WTF... Seriously! My Samsung Omnia 7 is still on 7740 with the old firmware, probably because it's unbranded. Users on other networks enjoy the newest version (or at least the newer firmware), with Internet Sharing. Withholding information only makes this situation worse. I relied on this page in the past when talking to Samsung's customer support representatives.
If I have a single suggestion for you, Eric Hautala, it is this: Cut back on the marketing crap and give us more transparency! I'm always happy when I see Joe Belfiore, because he won't talk bullshit. True he does marketing too and won't go into the technical details, but at least If he messes something up (Channel 9, remember?), he's just open about it and will explain it. That's the way to go! No need to be perfect: Be human.
On the update process in general: I'm on a unbranded phone. I don't want no handholding when I update my firmware. I like to think that I know what I'm doing. Can't you give me the update when I want it? Other manufacturers don't need approval from the mobile operators. They don't have to segment the rollout by country. Why is this so different for WP7? (Answers like "We do this to ensure the highest possible customer satisfaction blah blah" are NOT useful. Give me explanations and actual issues please.)
Still some way to go until you approach the quality and UX of Apple's processes. Not that Apple was perfect, far from it, but they nailed updates of iOS.
This is absolutely a disgusting decision, but yet is typical Microsoft. What did you learn from the NODO fiasco? Apparently nothing, and not only that, you must have really liked it so thought the another round of the same issues would be good for everyone! Why is it that you have to kiss up to the carriers and Apple doesn't? Gee, I wonder if it could be that Apple is driving the train and not the carriers....you think? Eric, you couldn't possibly think that this was going to have a positive reaction from your customers, did you? If you did, then we are in serious trouble.
Hey Eric, I have a new slogan for Windows Phone "Putting Carriers First (because we are dead last)". SMH. I really can't believe how you and your team has learn nothing after the NoDo fiasco.
And you are the GM for Customer Experience Engineering.
Nothing on Verizon since 7.5, and they could care less about customers. I thought they HAD to take atleast every other update!
oh lost one thing
"put the peoples first" rofl
It's unfair to have the updates available only to those with carriers ask for it and believes to be someone needing the updates...FYI MS and WP7 Team, we need the updates because we are also experiencing those bugs and it needs to be fixed. This is a very unwelcome note...I AM NOT HAPPY WITH IT...It's hard to market your product if a little bug cannot be fix or AVAILABLE ONLY TO THE FEW SELECT...THIS IS A VERY BAD AND MAD MOVE MS!!!!!!!!
MS although The Verge and Engadget have looked at Windows Phone with a highly critical eye compared to its competitors and don't praise every part of it, the one element they did praise was how incredibly fantastic the Mango roll out was... part of what made that roll out great was how easy it was for consumers to tell when their devices would get updated... I think this is a mistake and can only hope you change your mind... xbox on ios, halo on android, murky carrier controlled updates schedules... why do i have a windows phone again?
This change needs to be reverted asap. The transparency of updates is what made WP7 a great choice. 8107 needs to be delivered to all the carriers. As well as all releases.
I've been very supportive of WP7, but this is too much. This was one of the big selling points of the phone and the reason I switched from Android. We should at least get some clarification.
Wow and I was thinking of making a switch to Windows Phone because I didn't want to live in the ether of non updates of Android. I would think you wouldn't want to join them there. Well hope the Galaxy Nexus comes to my carrier.
Wow. Now I feel like I've been tricked into getting into this ecosystem. If you aren't going to hold the carriers feet to the fire on getting out updates in a timely fashion, we will see NODO again. And if that happens, I am out. I'll go back to iPhone where I know the hardware make actually has some balls and didn't just pretend to long enough to trick me into buying in to Windows Phone.
Ah the ghost of Windows Mobile! Available to all carriers who request them? Wow, I can see them tripping over each other to get this update rolled out ASAP. Not! This is a bad move Microsoft! What happened to your marketing slogan "Put People First"? Why do I get a feeling you're not fully committed to this platform?
Joining the rest of the comments in saying this is unacceptable. I bought the Samsung Focus at launch. I bought an HTC Titan on launch. I've convinced 6 friends to buy a Windows Phone, but this... this is unacceptable. Roll out updates to users- that's why Apple has done well. I read posts like this and I strongly consider going back to an iPhone.
MICROSOFT AND WINDOWS PHONE TEAM,
HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU MANAGED TO FRUSTRATE YOUR USERS AND SUPPORTERS SO MUCH???
How are you ever gonna attract mainstream users who don't attract care then?
Can Ballmer, Joe, Steven, Bill or whoever do something about this constant crap?
The idea that carriers have to "test" these updates is nothing more than a facade for carriers to avoid having to add value to a product they've already sold. Open market devices will receive all these updates all over the world, and none of those users or carrier networks will grind to a halt because some carrier didn't put the software through a 4-month "testing" process.
And we know it's true because Apple doesn't have this problem. I've never heard of AT&T, Sprint, Verizon, or other international carriers delaying an iOS update. And that's because Apple updates go out when Apple says so, not when carriers do. I love Windows Phone, and I say this because I want it to succeed and stay viably competitive against the other powerhouses of mobile OSes out there. Please understand that while my analysis is critical, it is constructive. Please do not close the window of transparency to your customers, or leave us in the hands of carriers who only look to deny us fixes for bugs like the disappearing keyboard (a fix that I may never see now), because they would rather us put up with an outdated product until we're eligible to pay for something that's up-to-date and patched.
Please do not let this amazing operating system become fragmented or out-of-date like the green robot. I support Windows Phone; and show mine to friends, family, and strangers who are astounded at what it does that other smartphones don't. I'd like to continue being able to do that for a long time. This is the best smartphone OS on the market, but it will only remain that way if _all_ of us continue to receive bug fixes and new features in a consistent, timely manner.
Thanks to dont get security related update, you PROMISED that the USERS get protected...now not all users get the new update and sms bug is still there for this users -> another broken promise.
Your update experience is terrible...its the worst on all 3 big platform! Should i tell you why?
On windows phone i have no clue to whom updates will come and when they come, security hole? pfff doesnt matter.
On Android i can choose Nexus and receive every update immediatelly (is there any device like this with wp? No)
On iOS any supported device geets every update immediatelly!
You made the keyboard bug with mango to all wp users
You made the sms bug
You dont fix it for all users!
So wheres wp`s good update experience? Its not present? I recommend wp to many people on-/offline...and i have to say sorry to those people cause i was not right, i believed your promises and it was a mistake. Can`t now recommend wp to anyone....better go with ios or android nexus.
Sitting on my omnia 7 with 7740 (many people dont get 7740 yet and less people get 8107 - on carrier request, rofl), my keyboard still disapears and i realy hope someone publish the sms string which is able to break windows phone funcunality, this will be a pr disaster and you deserve this because you should protect your users but you dont! Put peoples first? I laughed loud
Thought on buying lumia 900...Better switch to an alternative when i see this update mess, bye windows phone for a long time.
If I can some this post up in one word it would be: FAIL. The reasons are listed throughout the comments section. To summarize:
1) Where's My Phone Update needs to be kept current (it takes all of 5 minutes to do and not developer time) with each release. It's not even up-to-date now. Contacting the carrier is useless. We as end users shouldn't have to harass them to get an update.
2) The phone carrier is nothing more than my ISP for my phone. I want to be able to get the updates directly from Microsoft. If I had to wait for my ISP to approve updates for Windows 7 I'd be typing this on a MAC or a Linux box. If the updates process is not kept transparent and you are not able to keep phones on the latest release Windows Phone will continue slug along.
3) As was stated in other comments, the only time I see the update available popup is when I plug my phone into my computer. This doesn't work for the average user. And since the carrier will never request an update, the popup will never happen anyway.
Put people first. Don't act like you are too busy to hit the finer points. Great customer service equals a great product, loyal customers and more of them.
I don´t like the sound of this... As other commenters have mentioned, the update process ("every phone should get at least every second update, and no one would be left behind") was a selling point when WP7 first came out. It won me over, as an early adopter in a then unsupported country, more than a year ago! Since then, we have had the turbulent NoDo roll-out, and it set the focus on how important transparancy in the update process is! And now it looks like MS didn´t learn anything, can´t even maintain a small blog for transparancy, and won´t keep the initial promise about updates to every one? Or did i read the post wrong?
As an early adopter from sweden, coming from a disappointing windows mobile 6 experience, the ride has been bumpy - and there are still things i really miss when it comes to supporting services (Bing/Zune, and It took 8 months to get MMS working). But the last couple of months, things were looking more positive! Mango and a few maintenance updates came out and updates went great. Spotify and other important apps were released, or are about to get released soon. Nokia released their first phones, and with it a hope for a bigger swedish market and consequently better support for the missing Bing/Zune services in sweden in the future. The community wishlist was established, and this blog showed a lot of transparancy...
I almost forgot the past and that I, for some reason, never got the tethering option with the last update... And now I get the message that it might never arrive, and that it´s possible that I won´t receive a single new update in the future - not even the update fixing the disappearing keyboard, or the SMS vulnerability problem? Even though I have an open market phone? because it´s now up to Samsung to choose if they want to deliver these updates - Samsung who won´t even release their tethering firmware to all open market Omnia7:s? This is a giant step backwards...
Someone said that you really make it hard to like your product. I´m happy with the product/WP7, but MS is yet again making it hard for me to feel any conficence in the future of the platform by leaving the decisions to the carriers and manufacturers. If sticking to WP7, instead of choosing a great OS in the future, I might have to choose the "least bad" carrier... Sorry, but I can´t see how this is putting people first?
I just signed up to join this blog out of a need to make a comment.
This is simply stupid. Someone should get fired at Microsoft for making this stupid decisions.
He must be working for Android or Apple in making sure nobody likes WP. FIRE THAT GUY!!!
Microsoft, here this. Carriers have no more incentive to provide an update and making already
sold phones better. NO MONEY THERE!. They want you to BUY a new one.
(Ironically, I know this is Microsoft best interest too, selling a new phones, I understand you would
want this too. At the expense of angering old customers)
Just provide a link to download the update for each and every phone. We download ourselves and
update ourselves.. How hard could that be. No more waiting.. waiting.. waiting in the dark.
Sorry Eric this is the wrong move. The update cycle should not be carrier dependent. As a customer my experience should be to have the best software for my phone as developed my MS not decided by my carrier.
Perhaps customers should be better defined as those of us using the phones and not the carriers.
In my opinion, update for WP should be rolled out for every device of the ecosystem even if it is slightly or even "not applicable" to the device software. Perhaps just to update the version information. Like in Windows OS, not all the configurations of Windows require the same updated components when the SP is released. But the version number is leveled after the update for all the devices. This will bring a BIG change in the ecosystem. Please don't want/need to know about what's behind-the-scene. All they care is a new version number and the claimed updated component(s) to work as it is expected. If no component is updated for them, they will at least not bothered and being foul-mouthed about it. It's crazy but it will work.
i think having a chart listing the most recent update for each phone and carrier would be a great thing. It's too bad you have decided not to provide that information any longer.
I have to say that I'm disappointed in the lack of transparency and consistency of the updates. I'm still waiting for visual voicemail to be activated.. even though it shipped with Mango, AT&T doesn't support it. Otherwise, the phone is great and I would be happy if I received regular security updates & bug fixes (at least quarterly). Thanks for coming up with something creative and new in the phone industry. It could be a great phone if Microsoft pushed and made regular updates to all phones. With the new policy, though, it is very difficult to recommend Windows Phone (or my carrier).
I hope you can post more detailed information on updates in the future.
I just wanted to express my severe disappointment at this decision. This was a feature that gave users hope that they had not been forgotten, but you're going to shove us back into the dark with this policy change.
One of my favorite parts of the windows phone experience was getting an idea of when our carriers would start delivering updates to our devices. Now you're telling us that not only are we going to be clueless about what updates we are going to get (if we get any at all), but that a carrier has to request an update?!?!
This is completely unacceptable. As someone who has supported windows phone from the beginning, I feel as though my confidence in the platform has been betrayed. When my carrier doesn't request the next major software release because they want to sell me a new phone instead; am I just going to be left out in the cold?
With the release of the Mango update, you guys showed that you can handle a wide rollout of updates on a whole other level compared to Google. The swiftness and coordination of the mango update made Google's android update process look positively laughable.
It is a shame to see Microsoft take such a big step backwards in this regard. My confidence in the platform is wavering, I don't feel secure in knowing that my phone will be updated. I understand that windows phone is selling very poorly and you have no clout with the carriers to do your own updates without their approval, but I'll be damned if I'm ok with my carrier deciding whether or not my phone will get a security update or a bug fix update.
It appears that if I want a device that will get updates reliably that I will be forced to go back to an iPhone. You lose, Microsoft.
Very disappointed. I feel like I have to constantly defend carrying a WP and you guys just keep making it harder and harder to do that. I love my phone, but I will not put up with fragmentation.
As a moderator of a forum on patch management, I would respectfully ask that you reconsider your stance on not posting when updates are available by carrier. Having a one location that patch admins can rely on for information means that patch administrators can alert users to look out for updates. Phone devices are now part of our networks. Please don't take away vital patch management information that I've forwarded to people so that they can alert their users. Communication of when these updates are available is vital to management of a modern mobile device enabled network.
If you're going to screw us on updates, UNLOCK THE OS so we can patch and update ourselves as we did with Windows Mobile. The best OS's were community created. It's what kept Windows Mobile alive all those years. If left to Microsoft and the carriers, WinMo would have died years ago. You're killing Windows Phone.
Hate it..No visual voicemail as yet due to carriers..same old story like windows mobile 6.5
I just moved from an iPhone to an HTC Titan, and Eric, this news to me is unacceptable. I want the newest software releases as they're made available, and do not want my carrier to determine when or if I should receive it. Microsoft: please do what you can to reverse this. Do the right thing and continue to stand by your end users. We matter far more to you than the need to placate megatelcos.
The carriers could always choose not to push a minor update, but it had to be included in the next one. The big issue is transparency. The chart provided that... what is really going on. The higher ups have been very silent lately, much more then ever. there has been shifting of management roles, am I wasting time writing apps?
I choose to say no. I think there is a lot of hope in the Win8/Xbox/WP7 ecosystem, Apollo better fix this for us.
Thanks for helping me decide what my next phone is going to be. You guys are SO over.
Currently: LG Optimus 7 (Carrier-free).
That's a very bad policy change! I've been waiting for the disappearing keyboard fix for weeks, and having to wait for HTC or my local carrier to send it is such a shame since both naturally are further down the supply chain. So I end up waiting longer – possibly forever?
I don't even think my local carrier is aware of these updates since Windows Phone in Denmark is very small greatly overshadowed by Apple/Android.
So I really don't understand why Microsoft doesn’t just supply the updates themselves via Zune so we get them worldwide AS SOON AS THEY EXCIST.
And WHEN we get updated there should be a homepage with intensive details on the features in the individual update. Not just something like: “This update fixes critical issues”. That's of no use.
Tack this news on to the job posting for app developers to move XBOX LIVE to iOS and Android and it looks like Microsoft is giving up hope themselves on the Windows Phone platform. I know people that bought WP7 BECAUSE of XBOX Live, if that's moving to POPULAR platforms, there's another edge that Microsoft loses. Again, who's running this division? interns?
this update sounds like it should be mandatory. There's a keyboard fix that ALL phones could use, as well as a security fix for the issue that reboots people's phones. Even if it won't happen to everyone, be it rare or not, it does not make any sense that the update is up to the carriers discretion. These updates should just be rolled out by microsoft like windows updates on all kinds of PCs. Make it happen. Carriers are dumb and slow.
Here we go again... never getting updates, being forced to buy another phone to get the latest features, some phones get updates, some don't, and carriers get to decide when and/or what updates the Windows Phone customer gets! What?
Early on with Windows Phone Microsoft said that all phones will get updates/new firmware; now already, with second generation devices just a couple months old we are being told that it's up to the carrier to request the update, that all Windows Phone customers may not be getting updates! Way to go Microsoft (Windows Phone team) - you should know better.
The updates in 8107 should be mandatory for all Microsoft customers! It fixes broken stuff that everyone should be able to get! Good grief.
I looked the other way when AT&T didn't included the tethering option on the original Samsung Focus in the Mango release even when the device was/is capable of it but this new announcement on updates has clearly set a trend and really is bait and switch! No thanks! This is Windows Mobile all over again.
I've enjoyed using the Samsung Focus and now a Samsung Focus S that was just bought after Thanksgiving but I can say that this will likely be my last Windows Phone if this lack of real customer support trend continues.
I should have wised up and realized it was already a slippery slope into "we don't really give a rip about our customers" and the basic promise of things being different from the lack of upgradable hardware.
It's crud like this (change of position on updates, lack of all updated firmware fixes being available on older hardware - 1 yr old and less I might add that can clearly handle it) that really ticks a long time Microsoft person off. I've used Windows Mobile/Pocket PC's since its birth and finally got an iPhone 4 when it came out since Windows Mobile 6.5 was so slow on any then available hardware.
Apple is now not so saintly either since Siri wasn't included for iPhone 4 customers (even though it's been shown it can run it just fine) but at least Apple gives EVERYONE updates for fixes.
Microsoft - don't tick off those of us that like what you've done with Windows Phone, if it weren't for us Windows Phone wouldn't even have the paltry market share it has today.
I urge you to rethink the trend that obviously has started. If you don't I will not be buying another Windows Phone for a good long while, if ever. Don't be too desperate and give into the carriers whims, do what's best for YOUR customers not the carriers’ customers.
If you must give into the carriers then make your own hardware too - command excellence and really try to keep your customers happy. It's a win-win.
Apple is cleaning your clock because they understand that if old hardware runs the latest iOS and majority of all the apps they continue to make customers happy and make even more app sales!
If you can't compete - move onto something else where you can.
This seriously doesn't make any sense. Why does anyone else besides just Microsoft, have any controlling power of OS updares? You guys have successfully applied updates to, surely, billions of devices, and you just can't do that with Windows Phone. I hate to say Apple does it, but I mean, you should really be shooting for above, or at least be more consistent about things. Talk about throwing $100M+ in marketing, and then letting carriers "request" updates? Where don't you see fragmentation in this future? The revolt has already started. Good job dropping this on the Friday before CES, we can only be a little less upset when you have no response until, quite possibly another Joe Belfiore refreshing news press conference hero announcement! Cheap.
I couldn't agree more with this comment since I both have the reboot AND keyboard bug (my HTC Radar reboot spontaneously every 2-3 days and I've had to disable all background tasks to keep the keyboard from disappearing!):
”This update sounds like it should be mandatory. There's a keyboard fix that ALL phones could use, as well as a security fix for the issue that reboots people's phones. Even if it won't happen to everyone, be it rare or not, it does not make any sense that the update is up to the carriers discretion. These updates should just be rolled out by Microsoft like windows updates on all kinds of PCs. Make it happen. Carriers are dumb and slow”.
Don’t you want people buying your phones? If yes, why make a decision like this? Why make the user experience worst? Haven’t you learned anything from Apple? Let me make this really easy for you. CONSISTENT UPDATES! There you go, you can thank me later.
Verizon is obviously clueless when it comes to wp7 as Twitter points out. It's hard for the carriers to request something they don't know about and they shouldn't have to be reminded by their customers. On top of the fact that those same customers are also customers of Microsoft, this is a real shame.
@vzwsupport will Verizon @windowsphone users be getting the newest update that addresses the disappearing keyboard issue?
7 hours ago via Twitter for Windows Phone
VZWSupport VZW Support
@bobbydharrell What device do you have? We're not aware of updates. Please sign up for e-mail alerts. bit.ly/hlA0CQ ^VS
In the current status of Windows Phone...AT&T "the premiere" carrier will only request the update if MS tells them they need it. Verizon will never "request" it because they hardly even admit they carry a single windows phone. They would purposely leave it behind in updates just so they could trashtalk Windows Phone even more than they already are doing. Sprint couldn't care less if their phones get an update or not. Make the carriers provide updates or they will NOT happen.
That will continue to be true up until Windows Phones gets big. I'm sure android manufacturers and the carriers would kill to have the option to request the update immediately. No carrier of the iOS platform would want a lower version for their phone. But Windows Phone? There are still places referring it to as "Windows Mobile 7.5". If you checked the tech specs at Frys electronics (they carry an unlocked Lumia 800) you will see "Windows Mobile 7.5" and that's about it.
My suggestion: keep forcing updates until the manufacturers/carriers are begging for updates.
I'm sorry, I had already decided that my next phone would be a Windows Phone. But seeing this makes me want to redecide... I liked that Microsoft had this system where they had most of the control of the update, and providing with information as for why I didn't get my update yet. Mango is a great example for this. But if this changes I must again redecide if Windows Phone is where I want to be, looking at the new update process.
This sounds really disappointing: "all carriers that request it". Most carriers don't care and I've been sitting on my LG Quantum with a really old firmware from July, and without the most recent updates.
i was very disappointed with you microsoft
this is ugly please change your mind since in this way there are no more reason to stay with WP and not with Android!!
My carrier is AT&T and I'm still on the 7720!!
Microsoft, I am disappointed with this move. I bought into your platform because I saw it as the ideal compromise between the open mess that was Android, and the maximum security prison that is iOS. I am startled that you could even consider to alienate your users like this.
Was this a move to make some quick profit? Tell us that if we want updated phones, we will need to buy new ones? This is not Android, Microsoft. This is Windows Phone. Please don't yield to quick profits. Build a loyal customer-base. One that trusts in your ability to deliver updates in a timely fashion. If you're going to alienate all the users like this, I don't know where else to go. I am so disappointed.
Eric, part of running a blog involves engaging with your readers in the comments section, yet you have failed to respond to any of the comments and mostly concerns that users have had with this post. This shows that you either don't care, or you don't know how to respond to the fact that the Windows Phone community so easily saw through your veiled language in the blog post.
Don't make this another Android.
Very bad Microsoft, have you forgot your comments about Android fragmentation¿?....
I understand not detailing individual country, model and carrier details on Wheres My Phone Update, but users want to have access to updates information, and that was a good site to check.
Also, we liked visiting this blog as other Microsoft blogs, so i'm not liking that you will cancel it.
I just hope updates will be sent globally, and all updates will be sent to open market phones, since the post only states the 8107 update will be sent to carriers that request it! This is also bad, because users with carrier locked phones may not receive the update, and may not have the issues fixed - and this is bad for users and for the OS.
I mean, the best thing should be to send the updates to every customers, improving their experience with this fantastic OS.
Make thins better, not worse!!
Windows Phone = Android?
NOOOO please, i can understand this new
Monumental disaster. Here comes the end of Windows Phone :(
Horrible!! I think you need to explain some of your perceived anti-consumer moves before most of us jump ship.
Wow. This is an exceptionally bad decision for the people who actually buy Windows Phones. It also reflects very poorly on the backbone of Windows Phone management team. I was hoping the recent shakeup at the top would improve things - it is apparent it is already making them worse.
The ONLY entity this decision is good for is the carriers, who now once again have the sanctuary of lack of process transparency and can delay and stall with more impunity. It is obvious this decision was driven directly by carrier pressure and is at the CLEAR expense of the customer. Very disappointing.
It always puzzled me, Why are carriers involved in the update at all? The only reason I can think of is the need for OTA updates. But still, the user should always have the ability to update by connecting to the computer or just by connecting to the internet on the phone.
So much experience doing windows update for so many different products (office, visual studio, several tools like .net, sql server) for so many different versions and for all the versions of windows itself and it's like you forgot how to do it in a phone. Yes, it might be a different beast, but in the end not that different.
If I buy a netbook from a carrier, locked to a mobile internet plan, I can still update at will, so the only reason I can see here is that in the phone department the carriers carry more weight and can force you to do as they will. How about using your partnership with Vodafone for something actually usefull?
im very disappointed about it.
i just bought the nokia lumia 800 because i think WP7 has great potential and we should support this.
However, after reading this post, i am a bit worried about my phone that may not get updates after a year
Communication is very important. Please think about it again!
I see there are 89 comments (at the time of writing) most of which are unhappy about this post. Make it 90!
I bought into Windows Phone 7 specifically because it offered not only a really fresh, well-designed platform, but because you (MS) made it clear you would ensure that carriers could NOT block updates. This post appears to be a contradiction of that point of view.
Either WP7 (and 8) really is meant for Users, or you are just another 'phone OS vendor (like Google) who take no responsibility for ensuring we are satisfied. As I'm sure you know user satisfaction is currently very high with WP7, but that will NOT last if you place the responsibility for bug-fixes & updates in the hands of carriers. Windows 7 (on PCs) has an excellent automatic updates system. I don't expect these to be delivered to me only if my ISP 'approves' or worse 'requests' them!
I own an HTC HD7, which is a potentially very good 'phone. Unfortunatey some tome around the 'Mango' update it stopped playing music through Zune afer a couple of tracks. It can't then be used without battery removal. This problem has bounced around Microsioft Answers for many months and is unresolved.
I don't expect you to answer this here, but I am highlighting the type of issue that is losing you support amongst early adopters like myself, and will cause major problems should WP7 ever become a sucess. Even with your current minute market share there are nearly 70 pages of comments on the relevant MS Answers support page.
Let's be blunt. If WP& is going to make progress then you need a USP. Your adverts have identified that targeting the pitch at 'Users' is a good one, but you have to deliver if yopu want to suceed.
Windows Phone, please stop being so US-centric and show you care about the open market phones untouched by carriers. If 8107 is a system update that doesn't break any device drivers, open market phones should be able to download and install 8107 immediately. Windows can do that, why can't Windows Phone?
Don't you realize one of the reasons people chose WP7 was to escape from Android's modelo of giving control to the carriers when it comes to upgrades? Have you not learned that carriers don't give a flying **** about its customers, and are basically incompetent?
Microsoft, if you really want to succeed, you should put the focus on the user, first and foremost. And we want straight-from-Microsoft updates, immediately released, with no middlemen involved. Shift the focus from the carriers to the users. Reverse this stupid decision before it's too late.
I cant believe it!!! I've been waiting for the disappearing keyboard fix for weeks. I am sure that my local carrier just don't care about updates since Windows Phone in my country (Malaysia) is really really small compared to iPhone and Android. So I wont be getting any update forever. I can't believe that fragmentation is really happening to me. The reason I chose windows phone over an android is I hate fragmentation so much. This is definitely a lesson learnt for me. No more windows phone. I just recommended windows phone to few of my friends and family members who have been looking for new phones. Now I have to tell them to STAY AWAY from window phones.
when i bought this phone i got it so i can see the screen. i did not like the iphone because it was hard to see the screen and then i looked at the android i had and then i made a change. The screen on the HTC titan helps me be able to see my phone again and not letting the updates come to us is changing my thoughts if i made a mistake.
I like the 4.7 inch screen it helps me but i gess i will be looking at the iphone again when it comes out this spring.
i talked at&t to help me get this phone ahead of my contract ending. DID I MAKE A MISTAKE?
Here is what i see. MS giving the control to att is a bad thing not just for me but for of us who like windows phone.
DO YOU CARE?
From what i see you do not.
I will be changing my phone as soon as i can.
This is "Customer Experience Engineering" in action? It seems to be a very good way to destroy customer trust overnight... With the exception of the last bug fix in the 8107 list, none of the fixes appear to be carrier-dependent, so why should we have to rely on our carrier "requesting" 8107?
I've just made a profile here only so that i'll be able to make yet another comment on this here.
I live in Europe so i probably won't notice this in the start, however if this lowers WP sales in the US, it'll soon lower the sales in the rest of the world, and WP will be dead. -And that is for good this time around!
This is bad Microsoft, really bad!
Awful, awful, stupid decision. I moved to Windows Phone from a Blackberry PRECISELY because of the controlled and transparent update process (as opposed to the fragmented horror that is Android). I have an HTC Trophy from Verizon, who does not give a sh*t about WP7 and will NEVER take the time to release these updates. So, once again I'm consigned to carrier hell.
I love this platform, but I'm strongly considering moving to an iPhone (which I don't like as well) because at least they have the balls to release their updates to everyone regardless of carrier or platform. DON'T DO THIS, Microsoft!
this is a bad deal. Thanks made my decision easy. The only platform that offers proper updates is Iphone. I will go for that
I really can live with the fact that you decided to move communication on updates to the windowsphone.com page, although I believe that it really wouldn't be too much of a hassle to do a timely update on a table on which updates are delivered to which devices on which carriers (3 dropdowns and people know where in the cycle they stand).
That some updates come sooner on some carriers is fine by me too if they are doing testing. What is not acceptable is that updates become optional and only are delivered as a kind of rollup when the next major version happens. I forced the update on my old Omnia 7 and since it also fixes the problems with auto-complete for the german language I'm currently getting REALLY annoyed by it not being available for my unlocked Titan).
So in short: carrier testing, fine, it might make sense (but then how did they miss the voicemail notification bug...) but letting them decide what updates are delivered in the form of: only if they request it is just the WORST IDEA EVER.